RE: Attacks and Suspicions

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 2:25:31 AM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In WitP it was pretty challenging for the Allies to sustain a campaign through Timor and then into the rest of the DEI, only because the supply train was so long.� You couldn't get supplies to Darwin overland, so you had to ship it there around Perth or Townsville.�

Actually, in WITP it was pretty easy for the Allies to sustain an early campaign into Timor from Darwin because supplies would flow into Darwin along the "Great North Australian Railway" which of course never existed.

One of our design goals for AE was to make it tougher. Unfortunately the rather late added features of the supply draw function over-rode the removal of the railroad - and at least in my pre-release AE testing I was able to sustain two Corps of Australian troops between Tennant Creek and Katherine - with a supply base of about 70K (that's 70K north of Alice Springs).

Very recent tweaks to the supply draw process may have reduced this ability - and if so - that was intentional. We are trying to make it necessary for the Allies to use shipping to sustain a major campaign out of Northern Australia. Though the "Long Dusty Trail" was considerably enhanced during the war - it was never a railroad - and so for the first 18 months at least - it should be tougher to use Darwin as an offensive base. So, if we aren't there yet - we will continue to work on making that be so!

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Post #: 391

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 2:41:47 AM

Canoerebel

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In�both my�WitP games�there was just a trickle of supply overland to Darwin.� Perhaps this was due to us using the Big B mod?

In my AE game, a flood of supplies has moved to Darwin overland.� I figured this was because Oz is flush with supplies.� I've moved a tremendous amount to Oz from the West Coast, India, and Capetown.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/6/2010 2:42:17 AM >

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Post #: 392

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 2:59:19 AM

jwilkerson

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In my WITP experience Darwin rarely had less than about 30K supply until a correct HQ got there - then it rarely had less than 50k supply - I think all this was by design. But it enabled early lunging towards Timor - by late war standards - this would certainly need supplementing but from a mid to late 42 perspective - a sustainable 50K supply base is an offensive base! Darwin would auto-replenish because of the railway. I assume Darwin had a hard code that gave it the 30K drawn and then the HQ getting an additional 25K was just a feature of WITP.

For AE, I had to manipulate the supply draw buttons to pull 10s of thousands of supply up to Alice Springs - then further manipulate to pull supply to Tennant Creek and Katherine. The Japanese had taken Darwin early - but I was able to sustain the bulk of the combat capable LCU in Australia in the Tennat Creek, Katherine area without any strain - and I was not bringing in any supply. Sydney seemed to sustain a surplus of about 200K throughout. The test game (PBEM) in question went to Sept '42.

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Post #: 393

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 4:58:00 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

In my WITP experience Darwin rarely had less than about 30K supply until a correct HQ got there - then it rarely had less than 50k supply - I think all this was by design. But it enabled early lunging towards Timor - by late war standards - this would certainly need supplementing but from a mid to late 42 perspective - a sustainable 50K supply base is an offensive base! Darwin would auto-replenish because of the railway. I assume Darwin had a hard code that gave it the 30K drawn and then the HQ getting an additional 25K was just a feature of WITP.

For AE, I had to manipulate the supply draw buttons to pull 10s of thousands of supply up to Alice Springs - then further manipulate to pull supply to Tennant Creek and Katherine. The Japanese had taken Darwin early - but I was able to sustain the bulk of the combat capable LCU in Australia in the Tennat Creek, Katherine area without any strain - and I was not bringing in any supply. Sydney seemed to sustain a surplus of about 200K throughout. The test game (PBEM) in question went to Sept '42.

From what I have seen Darwin has not really been part of the equation in this battle. No shipping in or out. I think he built up Port Hedland and has moved all the fuel and supplies he is using there via ship using the southern route.

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Post #: 394

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 5:02:03 AM

Cuttlefish

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When so much was uncertain, the need to recover the initiative glared forth.
- Winston Churchill: Their Finest Hour, 1949

---

10/4/1942 � 10/7/1942

Kido Butai is at Balikpapan at long last but I think the invasion fleet is already beginning to withdraw. On 7 October submarine I-157 took a shot at Hermes a good 240 miles southeast of Koepang. Sadly the torpedoes missed.

The only Japanese attack during this time was a Betty raid on his main carrier force in the Sulu Sea on 6 October. I had hoped to attack his shipping at Koepang, not his carriers, but I knew it was a possibility. At any rate I lost 10 Zeros for somewhere between 14 and 20 Wildcats, but the Bettys took heavy losses. On the plus side his carriers are down about 40 planes, maybe as many as 50, since the start of the invasion.

I�m posting a map showing what my bases in the area look like right now as far as air power goes. I am moving in additional aviation support, especially to Kendari. There are a fair number of engineers there and they have built a good airfield and some forts, just no aviation support.

Here is the plan at the moment: I am concentrating about 80 Zeros at Ambon and they will begin sweeping Koepang, which he has already stuffed with fighters. KB and a couple of fast heavy cruiser task forces will slip through the Lombok Strait into the Indian Ocean and descend on the Port Hedland � Koepang sea corridor from the southwest. Meanwhile I will continue to move troops, aviation support, and planes into the area. If I achieve air superiority over Koepang the bombing of the airfield will commence immediately. None of the other bases he captured has a viable airfield as yet.

Here is the map. You can see KB there right next to Balikpapan, unspotted as far as I know. His submarines look like they are concentrated around Ambon and the approaches there.

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Post #: 395

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 9:13:18 AM

PresterJohn001

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Have you spent your PP's? 10,000 is a good 5 Divisions plus support. Theres plenty in Manchuria, including construction and AA. The Germans are about to capture Moscow, Russia is a falling power (just don't activate it!) . Thats a lot of troops you can strat move to the coast and then transport to where you want them!

Also you might want to mine the ports hes taken he if have some spare subs

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Post #: 396

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 9:34:31 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

Have you spent your PP's? 10,000 is a good 5 Divisions plus support. Theres plenty in Manchuria, including construction and AA. The Germans are about to capture Moscow, Russia is a falling power (just don't activate it!) . Thats a lot of troops you can strat move to the coast and then transport to where you want them!

Also you might want to mine the ports hes taken he if have some spare subs

Affirmative on both counts. There is a big convoy loading at Fusan now with infantry, engineers, and an aviation HQ. And I-122 is already halfway to Koepang with a load of 42 mines.

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Post #: 397

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 11:39:34 AM

ComradeP

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I'm assuming the garrisons in Soerabaya and what I guess is Banyuwangi are not on the island east of them as the map currently indicates. Limitation of hexes I guess.

In any case, you don't have any troops on Bali or on the road between Flores and Banyuwangi in general. Are you thinking about reinforcing that area? Bima's even still Dutch so he could get a base up there for free without you knowing it until he has build it.

Do you have a credible defensive force on the southern shore of Celebes, at Makassar and Kendari?

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Post #: 398

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 2:50:30 PM

Cap Mandrake

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A useful strategy when the enemey is covering his forward bases with carriers is to carefully chop the range on your antishipping bombers down to the exact distance to the nearest bases with enemy shipping (like the ones on Flores according to your picture). In general, most players don't put the covering carriers in the same hex as the unloading transports because it limits their CAP (and makes them much easier to spot and vulnerable to surface attack).

In this way, you won't go in against his full CAP. You may encounter bleed over CAP from adjoing hexes or LRCAP but it won't be as powerful and the LRCAP fatigues his crews more. The likely targets will be transports or escort cruisers. Another technique that used to work is to take away the escort fighters and use a bomber commander not on steroids. In this case, the commander will usually not launch against a heavy CAP but will pick off rear area shipping.

Of course, this wouldnt work against shipping a Koepang as he likely has ground based CAP so you might not be able to do this from Ambon but it might work from Balikpapan and Soerabaja.

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 5:32:20 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

A useful strategy when the enemey is covering his forward bases with carriers is to carefully chop the range on your antishipping bombers down to the exact distance to the nearest bases with enemy shipping (like the ones on Flores according to your picture). In general, most players don't put the covering carriers in the same hex as the unloading transports because it limits their CAP (and makes them much easier to spot and vulnerable to surface attack).

In this way, you won't go in against his full CAP. You may encounter bleed over CAP from adjoing hexes or LRCAP but it won't be as powerful and the LRCAP fatigues his crews more. The likely targets will be transports or escort cruisers. Another technique that used to work is to take away the escort fighters and use a bomber commander not on steroids. In this case, the commander will usually not launch against a heavy CAP but will pick off rear area shipping.

Of course, this wouldnt work against shipping a Koepang as he likely has ground based CAP so you might not be able to do this from Ambon but it might work from Balikpapan and Soerabaja.

Devious. Malicious. Nasty. Manipulative. I like....

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/6/2010 5:34:45 PM

Chickenboy

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Cuttlefish,

Looks like some of the Allied Flores bases would come in range of IJAAF Oscar Cs (or whatever your IJA frontline fighter is du jour), particularly if you used drop tanks from planes based out of Kendari. I try to spare my A6M lines as much as possible and let the IJA carry its frontline burden too. Will naval fighters be pulling the yoke on this one or sharing sweep, CAP and LRCAP duties?

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/7/2010 2:19:46 AM

Fishbed

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I would start a very big recon campaign over enemy bases. Flores area should be targeted first.

Use your DD for fast transport: muster dozens of them, and once loaded, they can actually leave Kendari or Makassar, land your troops (what about the eastern tip of Flores?), or you may even land directly on an enemy base, and get back to Kendari Full Speed in a single phase. With 30 DDs and CLs you can land several regiments and tons of supply in a matter of nights, and he'll never know about them (works with the Shortland-Lunga run in Guadalcanal games) while your ships will be under Kendari's air umbrella the whole time.

If you recon the bases well enough, the smaller ones on Flores can get easily obliterated by CA-led Bombardment forces, especially if they're not too fortified yet. Once on Flores you may take advantage of whatever he will have built there and blockade Koepang more easily.

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 1/7/2010 2:21:13 AM >

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/7/2010 4:46:54 AM

InHarmsWay

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Wow! Cuttlefish, great AAR! I can feel your concern with the Allied landings in Timor as my long time nemesis Admiral Wa did the same to me in a WitP game a while back. I did not react nearly as forcefully as it seems you are doing and in the end it cost me what should have been a win, into a draw that we called mid '43 once AE came out. Although by Aug '43 I had reduced the allies to ~2-3 CV's his use of LBA allowed him to march up the DEI and was getting into striking distance of the southern PI. Allowing the Allies decent LBA bases inevitably results in losing sea and air superiority. It was only a matter of time before I would have been hurting for oil and resources. Not sure how this will play out in AE with the supply lines favoring the Empire more (big gas station at Palembang, and all the supplies generated in the DEI) but I am looking foward to finding out! Thanks again for putting the time into another excellent AAR!

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RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/7/2010 1:46:58 PM

vlcz

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In your picture I miss Makassar, I think it is a 3/6 base at ten hexes from Koepang, and you can put air support there very fast from Balikpapan, almost instantly via air transport indeed.

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Post #: 404

RE: Attacks and Suspicions - 1/8/2010 4:30:15 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

In your picture I miss Makassar, I think it is a 3/6 base at ten hexes from Koepang, and you can put air support there very fast from Balikpapan, almost instantly via air transport indeed.

Hm, I do have the Dash Backward Sentai nearby and there are a lot of DDs in the area...that's worth thinking about. I also have a brigade moving there via ship, it should be there in a couple of turns.

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Post #: 405

The Death of Famous Men - 1/8/2010 4:35:15 AM

Cuttlefish

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It was night, and the rain fell; and falling, it was rain, but, having fallen, it was blood.
- Edgar Allen Poe: Silence, A Fable

---

10/8/1942 � 10/13/1942

Three Japanese heavy cruisers and escorts hit Endeh at Timor overnight, sinking two AMs, an xAK, and xAPs Mariposa (a big one), Benjamin Franklin, and Edgar Allen Poe. If Ben and Edgar aren�t enough famous casualties, Oscars staged a raid on the daily RAF bombing run against the Japanese units below Akyab. Four P-40s and three Oscars went down, but one of the pilots involved was a guy named Rutins (I thought maybe it was even E. Rutins, but I�m not sure). His plane was last seen falling on fire towards the jungle and Rutins� fate remains unknown.

Japanese forces continue to build up around the Timor area. In the meantime all eleven Japanese carriers have passed through the Lombok Strait and are now in the Indian Ocean. Unfortunately at least one of the forces was spotted by an Allied aircraft as they transited the strait. I am going to try to use this mishap to my advantage; there is a battleship TF following behind the carriers and I am going to turn it east and have it move slowly down the island chain. With any luck Q-Ball will track it, think this is what he saw, and think I am moving in on Timor. Meanwhile my carriers will go south, out of search range, and then move northeast towards Australia.

I�m not sure what the result could be. I might run into his carriers. I might find some shipping (there�s a lot of it through there both ways right now, my subs are keeping watch), or nothing. The one thing I will be careful of is not to engage him within range of the big airfields at Exmouth and Port Hedland.

Burma Murmurs: the Imperial Guard Division moved up from Prome and clobbered the Somerset Light Infantry. Q-Ball�s advance in this area seems to be a probe or a diversion and his units look to be holding position or falling back towards Akyab right now. The serious threat is in the north, where a fairly strong force has driven my regiment out of Myitkyina. He also seems to be trying to flank the divisions I have blocking the road/rail line a few hexes above Mandalay. I have units moving up to try and prevent this, however. Still, if he can apply serious pressure from enough directions at once it might mean problems for me.

He is flying a lot of bombing missions against my infantry divisions but while they are in combat mode and in the jungle it doesn�t seem to be having a lot of effect. It does force me to move slowly, however, if I think my units are being observed. The effects of bombing get a lot worse for units in move or, god forbid, strat mode.

Enter Tojo: the Ki-44 1a is starting to come off my production lines in some numbers now. I will soon have enough to upgrade one or two Oscar airgroups. Looking at the stats in this game the Tojo is an upgrade over the Oscar but the early versions, at least, still only have a firepower rating of 12. That�s not high enough to make it a good platform against bombers, though I am hoping it might at least make a good stopgap air superiority fighter for the Army. Not that I can complain about my Oscars. In the recent fight near Akyab, for instance, my Oscars were outnumbered and got bounced by Allied fighters and still gave better than they got.

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 2:03:18 AM

Miller

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The early Tojo and Tony are worse than the Oscar II in my opinion. All you get is an extra pair of 7.7mm guns and a higher top speed at the expense of greatly reduced range and manouverability. Until the later versions appear in mid/late 43 I will be sticking with the Oscar.

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Post #: 407

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 7:37:13 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The early Tojo and Tony are worse than the Oscar II in my opinion. All you get is an extra pair of 7.7mm guns and a higher top speed at the expense of greatly reduced range and manouverability. Until the later versions appear in mid/late 43 I will be sticking with the Oscar.

This may well be true. I think I will go ahead, though, and upgrade at least one unit and test them in combat before I decide. The Oscar is a good plane in AE but with that gun value of 6 they sometimes resemble a swarm of moths trying to bite something to death.

Of course, the Japanese have been known to come up with some mighty big moths...

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 7:40:31 AM

Cuttlefish

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Not one of us who fought in the late war can forget --- nor should any citizen be allowed to forget --- that the national resource which enabled us to carry the war to the enemy and fight in his territory and not our own was our Merchant Marine.
- Chester W. Nimitz

---

10/14/1942 � 10/18/1942

Action has been heavy in the Timor region the past few turns. There have been no naval or carrier clashes as of yet but Q-Ball and I have been taking turns bashing each other�s merchant shipping.

Following my last successful foray Q-Ball retaliated with one of his own as his cruisers sank two xAKs, an xAKL, and a PB at Ambon in a night attack (these were empty, fortunately, pulling out after delivering supplies). So I hit another base at Flores and sank two small escorts and four small xAPs. Then his carriers spotted the task force that had just finished unloading the 65th Brigade at Kendari and sank three xAPs (the ships had decided to take the southern route back to Saigon instead of the northern route � stupid me forgot to specify a safe route). Finally, Kido Butai turned up off the Australian coast below Carnarvon and hit an escort and two fuel-laden tankers with a small raid.

Somewhere in here one of his destroyers hit a mine I laid at Koepang and Zeros swept the same base. The toll was 11 Zeros down for somewhere around 18 or 20 of his fighters. As I have found in other battles it was the Hurricanes that saved him from complete defeat. Of the total only two of them were lost and they accounted for most of the kills. The Warhawks and Kittyhawks were not nearly so effective. My fighters came in at 21,000 feet.

Right now he has ships unloading at Lautem in a follow-up invasion and he knows roughly where my carriers are (his are in the Sulu Sea at the moment). I will respond with LBA against the Lautem force and my carriers will begin moving towards his carriers. And then�well, we will see.

China: the sausage-grinder battle south of Changsa continues. So far his units are holding and in fact are inflicting something close to even casualties. But I will keep up the pressure. Meanwhile I have a force in place to resume the attack on Liuchow. They are just waiting for more supplies to be unloaded at Hong Kong before the attack resumes.

Burma: our forces have disengaged below Akyab. One Japanese division, the 38th, returned to Prome and from there they moved by rail to Schwebo and are now moving up to guard the flank of my units to the north. I am also going to need to send more units to Lashio, because it looks like he is sending a few units that way from Myitkyina.

Pacific: the wide blue waters of the Pacific have been a very quiet place lately for some reason...

Situation in Burma:

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 12:15:33 PM

Miller

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Forgot to add, the Tony also has a service rating of 3. The single sqd I updated had 3 out of 12 planes available after flying 80% CAP for two days. The 70 or so I have produced will sit in the pool until kamikaze duty beckons in '44.

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 12:39:50 PM

Alikchi2

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Have you been transferring LBA from the Pacific to Burma and the DEI?

And what's the overall strategy there - are you going to attrit him to death with said LBA, or swoop in with the KB and neuter him?

As always, complements on a really readable and enjoyable gameplay AAR.

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 5:16:51 PM

InHarmsWay

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Cuttlefish,

What are your thoughts on maintaining torpedos with the KB? You mentioned catching a couple of TKs and escorts with a small raid. Were torpedos expended? With the ability to replenish torpedoes close by (sorebaja), I would be tempted to keep them full, and as soon as a CV no longer has enough to fly with torpedoes I would head back. Makes for some interesting tactical decisions, especially if you know your opponent has used up torpedoes, or if he knows you have... Thanks againg for the AAR. One thing that can be guaranteed, we are all learning alot about AE and how it is different from WitP!

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Post #: 412

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 6:32:33 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The early Tojo and Tony are worse than the Oscar II in my opinion. All you get is an extra pair of 7.7mm guns and a higher top speed at the expense of greatly reduced range and manouverability. Until the later versions appear in mid/late 43 I will be sticking with the Oscar.

This may well be true. I think I will go ahead, though, and upgrade at least one unit and test them in combat before I decide. The Oscar is a good plane in AE but with that gun value of 6 they sometimes resemble a swarm of moths trying to bite something to death.

Of course, the Japanese have been known to come up with some mighty big moths...

I'm pretty sure that moths do not have mouthparts capable of biting...

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Post #: 413

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 6:54:37 PM

Menser

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Tell that to my wool clothing Chickenboy .......

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Post #: 414

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 9:08:59 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Menser

Tell that to my wool clothing Chickenboy .......

OK....this is wierd, but as you wish....

To: Menser's wool clothing
From: Chickenboy

"MOST MOTHS DON'T HAVE MOUTHPARTS CAPABLE OF BITING..."

http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef609.asp

(now the larva on the other hand are quite voracious little buggers...)

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Post #: 415

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/9/2010 11:12:22 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

As I have found in other battles it was the Hurricanes that saved him from complete defeat. Of the total only two of them were lost and they accounted for most of the kills. The Warhawks and Kittyhawks were not nearly so effective.

Interesting -- that seems to be new to WitP. Is that from the Admiral's Edition?

And isn't it about time for Spitfire V's and P-38's?

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/10/2010 12:37:28 AM

erstad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Forgot to add, the Tony also has a service rating of 3. The single sqd I updated had 3 out of 12 planes available after flying 80% CAP for two days. The 70 or so I have produced will sit in the pool until kamikaze duty beckons in '44.

80% CAP? That seems excessive. I typically have in the 30-50%.

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/10/2010 12:54:36 AM

Cuttlefish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

Have you been transferring LBA from the Pacific to Burma and the DEI?

And what's the overall strategy there - are you going to attrit him to death with said LBA, or swoop in with the KB and neuter him?

As always, complements on a really readable and enjoyable gameplay AAR.

So far I have not transferred any air units from the Pacific. I may end up having to do so but I'm trying to avoid it. As far as overall strategy goes a major carrier battle is probably not far off now. Attrition becomes a viable option if I can force his carriers to withdraw. That would seem to be a bad strategy for Japan in general but given the losses I have seen so far in this campaign the quality and morale of his fighter units seems poor compared to mine. I might just be able to tilt the balance in Japan's favor and rule the skies.

Maybe. He has four-engine bombers and I don't and that may prove to be a major factor. They aren't the killing swarm they were in WITP, that's for sure, but they are on Koepang and already making their presence felt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InHarmsWay

What are your thoughts on maintaining torpedos with the KB? You mentioned catching a couple of TKs and escorts with a small raid. Were torpedos expended? With the ability to replenish torpedoes close by (sorebaja), I would be tempted to keep them full, and as soon as a CV no longer has enough to fly with torpedoes I would head back. Makes for some interesting tactical decisions, especially if you know your opponent has used up torpedoes, or if he knows you have... Thanks againg for the AAR. One thing that can be guaranteed, we are all learning alot about AE and how it is different from WitP!

I very carefully did not use torpedoes against his shipping, so my carriers are fully stocked. I won't face Q-Ball's carriers without 100% of my torpedoes unless I know his carrier force is split or damaged. On the other hand, he also seems to be careful not to expend torpedoes when he knows my carriers are not around, so I would say this is a factor we are both very aware of. It's different than WITP, that's for sure, and adds an interesting dimension to carrier operations.

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ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

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As I have found in other battles it was the Hurricanes that saved him from complete defeat. Of the total only two of them were lost and they accounted for most of the kills. The Warhawks and Kittyhawks were not nearly so effective.

Interesting -- that seems to be new to WitP. Is that from the Admiral's Edition?

And isn't it about time for Spitfire V's and P-38's?

I haven't seen any Spitfires yet but P-38s have appeared in action for the first time in this operation. So far their losses have been quite heavy, around 30 to 35 planes, and I think this has hampered his long-range air operations. More about this the next time I update the AAR.

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(in reply to Alikchi2)

Post #: 418

RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/10/2010 2:14:58 AM

Onime No Kyo

Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Menser

Tell that to my wool clothing Chickenboy .......

OK....this is wierd, but as you wish....

To: Menser's wool clothing
From: Chickenboy

"MOST MOTHS DON'T HAVE MOUTHPARTS CAPABLE OF BITING..."

http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef609.asp

(now the larva on the other hand are quite voracious little buggers...)