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First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/20/2009 10:51:41 PM

killroyishere

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quote:

"It's a great and addictive game. When I first ran the game, it truly reminds me of the time when I first opened Smugglers 2 after downloading it. I can see how players would be immediately hooked. The texts seem to tell a story, and the quotes are quite inspirational. People today are looking for open-ended games, and Smugglers is arguably the most open-ended game on the market."
Voyager III, USA
(Quoted from closed forum for betatesters)

Definitely like open ended and sandbox games.

Post #: 1

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 7:54:39 PM

Justascratch

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Got it - playing it - lot's of fun!

I am usually a little wary of lower priced software, but this one is a winner.

(in reply to killroyishere)

Post #: 2

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 8:46:19 PM

Tophat1815

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Some form of AAR would be nice........

(in reply to Justascratch)

Post #: 3

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 8:50:17 PM

V22 Osprey

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Agreed, I'm not seeing anything special in this game, especially when I have AI War and Sins of a Solar Empire.I'm not taking a chance until I see some of AAR or video of gameplay.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 10/21/2009 8:51:09 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 9:02:12 PM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
Since there is no demo, I'm not taking a chance until I see some of AAR or video of gameplay.

There is a demo on the publishers site; I know this as I've been playing it!

Can't say I'm impressed, but I gather the game has been improved somewhat and a new demo is also inbound, so it only seems fair to wait for that.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)

Post #: 5

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 10:07:39 PM

killroyishere

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Found the demo and I see it as a beginners game to space trading adventure. The ship to ship space combat is sort of a joke. You have a side picture of your ship on the left and a side picture of the enemy ship on the right. The combat is basically 1 2 3 and there is no tactical to it at all. You have a handful of selections of how you want to fire or defend yourself and a handful of action points to do it. But, the simple pattern is taunt, shoot missile end turn, next turn aim, fire laser, fire laser, next turn (if the ai launches missle) is ecm until you stop the missle so button 4, 4, 4 lmao then the next turn goes back to aim, fire laser, fire laser and the next turn is (by this time you have the ai opponent near dead) tractor beam, aim, fire laser. next turn aim, fire laser fire laser enemy dead. Every battle was the same way and I didn't come close to losing one. I know it's just a tutorial but this is pretty basic stuff here. Renegade Legion Interceptor is a better game than this, though it has no space trading, but it has an excellent tactical combat system. Out of 8 hit the nail on the head with this one it is about a 5/8 game to me based on the tutorial and mainly because this combat engine will get old and repetitive quickly. I never did get to see any ship boarding features since I guess you have to have a huge ship for that. I would probably pay $10 bucks for it just to tinker around to see more of the middle/end game, but, not $29.99 or $39.99 physical for sure. Build a new more tactical combat engine and attach the adventure and trading game along with it and you would have yourself a winner here as I found the trading portion quite likeable just not this combat engine.

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 6

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 10:19:04 PM

JudgeDredd

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erm....oops. I came away from the demo with quite a different outlook. I thought it was a great little demo and a good tutorial.

I agree, I "kind of" noticed a pattern in the battles, and the only battle I came near to losing was me just clicking around...but I thought it was good lite fun. But there was an element of uncertainty in the battles. It wasn't always plain sailing. A couple of times I was hit by a missile...a few times my ECM worked. A couple of times the enemy ECM worked, a few times my missiles struck home. Most of the time the "aim" worked, but sometimes did not. I was going into each battle not really knowing that I was coming out of it.

But I was more interested in the rest of it anyway, and the battles "popped up" every now and again. I was impressed with the array of upgrades you could get for your ship, and the new ships. There looks to be alot of game here.

My only concern is that the battles may become repetitive to the point of not wanting to play.

It's very beer and pretzels, but alot to tinker with. I thought the demo showed it in a promising light

(in reply to killroyishere)

Post #: 7

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/21/2009 11:29:48 PM

killroyishere

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quote:

My only concern is that the battles may become repetitive to the point of not wanting to play.

Well that was baiscally my main concern as well. With there being a pattern to the battles and really no tactical movement at all then I'm pretty certain they would become repetitive and boring too quickly. I played 300 turns and I'm already bored with it.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 8

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 12:41:03 AM

Erik Rutins

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Keep in mind that as you improve and upgrade to better ships and so on, you also get additional abilities that affect the combat (quite a few of them) and you also tend to get involved in more difficult and interesting missions with tougher opponents (that each have their own abilities too). I find it keeps things interesting. With that said, this developer specializes in "casual games with depth" so if that style is not for you, it may not be right for you.

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(in reply to killroyishere)

Post #: 9

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 2:04:47 AM

Rosseau

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Thank you for the boarding screen, Erik, and your honest appraisals. Half the fun is deciding whether to buy or not!

Matrix owns the market when it comes to Grigsby-like games. I buy those without even looking at a screen. But it's tough when you find huge compilations like Sword of the Stars Ultimate occasionally on sale for $5!

Of course, Smugglers will most likely be supported/enhanced. If we don't support these indies, we won't be seeing new games. And that's bad...

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 10

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 3:18:27 AM

Erik Rutins

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Believe me, I'm a Sword of the Stars fan as well and I think that's a truly outstanding game. It's tough for indie games of this kind to compete with games that have gone to retail and are able to use $5 pricing at the other download sites as it's all incremental profit at that point. I won't claim this is a replacement for SOTS in any way, it's not a 4X game or a mass-market retail title, but it's a fun space-trading game and I feel it's a quality diversion. YMMV.

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 11

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 8:01:06 AM

NielsB

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Hi there,

I am the developer of Smugglers 4. Erik was so kind to invite me here. Thank you for your comments. I am always looking for ways to improve the game.

If you compare Smugglers 4 to SOTS you could as well compare it to a 3D shooter. Both are completely different games and obviously this is not and was never supposed to be a 4X strategy game. My intention was to create a space trading game that on top of being exactly that also provides a space conquest mode as a bonus. Talking about pricing doesn�t make much sense with indie gaming either. As an indie I have to charge as much as I need to further create games. Typically indie games sell much less copies than games for the mass market.

The tutorial mode is a sandbox mode where your ship cannot be destroyed. It�s meant to give someone new to this game a first look at the game and the multitude of options. If you want to test the combat system you should get a bit more into the game. The great amount of available skills give each profession a specialized way to handle combat. So your suggestion of taunt etc. only work for mercenaries and obviously when you get deeper in the game you might decide to use different combinations.

Finally if the combat is too easy for you, I suggest you turn on the veteran mode in the game options. While obviously the fans of MatrixGames are real computer game pros I also had to design the game with the less experienced players in mind. The veteran mode however should be a good challenge.

I hope you enjoy the game. :)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 12

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 8:23:50 AM

JudgeDredd

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Bugger

I'm a sucker from hearing from devs!

Well I enjoyed the tutorial. I thought it was a very light game with plenty of options to make play varied. Upgrades to ships. New ships. Different galaxies. Different mission types. Different character types and traits. I thought there was alot of game in it.

I also like the on board view. I can understand why Killroyishere was disappointed with the tactical side...seems to me he was looking for a grid to move his ships/people around in. Personally, I've tried several space games and really did not get on with them.

I actually played this through the whole tutorial - and then carried on playing, something I seldom do with tutorials as they are often text based or have so much text to read I just can't be bothered. The tutorial in this was short and concise with each popup, telling you what you had to do and why in very small chunks of text.

I think as an indie, you've done a good job and for that reason, I'll be picking this up. �20 isn't going to break the bank (although the wife could find other things for the cash I guess!

(in reply to NielsB)

Post #: 13

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 9:14:26 AM

JamesM

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So can this game be considered as a space 4X game?

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 9:29:42 AM

JudgeDredd

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 10:23:23 AM

killroyishere

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@NeilsB

It's not so much the combat outcomes it's the combat method it's a boring sideshow of my ship on the left and the enemy ship on the right press a button or two each turn. Veteran status wouldn't change my figuring out a pattern and then the repetitiveness of the same button pushing every battle. There is just really no tactics here and that's my concern. It's like cardboard cut outs and just rolling the dice and that's what it feels like to me. This method has been used in games like Warlords/Warlords IV but it has an auto combat feature so one doesn't become fatigued and bored with button smashing every single battle. That is where the repetitiveness of this would get old fast. I guess I was hoping for a more action style combat system like a Master of Orion II (hexes and tactical turns of maneuver and fire).
At any rate I did say it was a good beginner level beer & pretzels sort of space trading adventure game and easy for newcomers to get into but for an old veteran gamer like myself it's too repetitive in the combat sequences of the tutorial. Maybe if you had given more opportunities in the demo to do more things and get to better ships or had sequenced tutorial segments so we could see all of the game in sections I might have had a different feeling about it?
I'll leave it at that and hope you get lots of sales as we always need more new developers in the genre. I did give you some ideas for future versions though as I think some sort of tactical movement and combat would be more fun. Take a look at games that I mentioned like Renegade Legion Interceptor and Sentinel Worlds as both of these were excellent space combat games in their prime and you already have a very nice space trading game as I said.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 16

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 1:11:56 PM

JamesM

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Erik,

Was the the space game that you were asking for beta testers a while back?

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 1:20:26 PM

vonRocko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justascratch

Got it - playing it - lot's of fun!

I am usually a little wary of lower priced software, but this one is a winner.

Lower priced software? If anything this is way overpriced.(My main complaint lately).
I got it yesterday,and have already shelved it. Boring combat and repetetive play and lack of anything exciting happening.The game runs problem free, but looks 20 years old. If it was $20 dollars I wouldn't care, but $50 (with shipping) is not worth it.
Thanks

(in reply to Justascratch)

Post #: 18

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 2:13:42 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
It's not so much the combat outcomes it's the combat method it's a boring sideshow of my ship on the left and the enemy ship on the right press a button or two each turn. Veteran status wouldn't change my figuring out a pattern and then the repetitiveness of the same button pushing every battle. There is just really no tactics here and that's my concern. It's like cardboard cut outs and just rolling the dice and that's what it feels like to me. This method has been used in games like Warlords/Warlords IV but it has an auto combat feature so one doesn't become fatigued and bored with button smashing every single battle.

I think that some players might welcome an "auto-resolve" for combat, but I have to tell you that what you see in the tutorial/demo with your fighter is just scratching the surface. Combat does get quite a bit more interesting and challenging as you go on. Moreover, you have the choice to focus on trading rather than building your career on ship combat. In any case, it may just not be a good fit for you, but I wanted to make sure to note that the tutorial/demo is really just an intro to the beginning part of the game.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to killroyishere)

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 2:14:05 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm
Was the the space game that you were asking for beta testers a while back?

Nope, there's another one coming too!

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to JamesM)

Post #: 20

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 2:15:17 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
I got it yesterday,and have already shelved it. Boring combat and repetetive play and lack of anything exciting happening.The game runs problem free, but looks 20 years old. If it was $20 dollars I wouldn't care, but $50 (with shipping) is not worth it.

Sorry you feel that way - how far into the game did you get? What careers did you try? Did you get far enough to get a larger ship and get involved in some of the sector campaigns? Have you tried Veteran mode, as Niels suggested?

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 10/22/2009 2:16:06 PM >

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 6:06:35 PM

killroyishere

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Some other feedback from the tutorial. It needs a zoom or increase size of text for us older farts with bad eyes. I found myself leaning into the monitor just to read the small font in the text messages. Either that or add a voice activated reader for us.

Also, an auto resolve for battles would definitely improve my standing about the boring repetitive combat. At least add the option to use it and deal with the consequences and/or allow the player to build a combat sequence template to put in the ships combat computer. Then every battle that is auto resolved it will run that sequence like 1. taunt 2. launch missle (if no ap left end turn after each number) if enemy missle detected then ECM until destroyed command then continue main sequence of 3. aim 4. fire 5 fire 6. aim 7. fire 8.fire < that's basically what I do every battle. When taunt goes down or the missle comes back available I use them again. Give 8 slots for a combat build and let the players use those 8 slots how they want for auto combat? I would like that a lot more than having to just keep pressing the same buttons over and over.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 6:11:07 PM

NielsB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Some other feedback from the tutorial. It needs a zoom or increase size of text for us older farts with bad eyes. I found myself leaning into the monitor just to read the small font in the text messages. Either that or add a voice activated reader for us.

Also, an auto resolve for battles would definitely improve my standing about the boring repetitive combat. At least add the option to use it and deal with the consequences and/or allow the player to build a combat sequence template to put in the ships combat computer. Then every battle that is auto resolved it will run that sequence like 1. taunt 2. launch missle (if no ap left end turn after each number) if enemy missle detected then ECM until destroyed command then continue main sequence of 3. aim 4. fire 5 fire 6. aim 7. fire 8.fire < that's basically what I do every battle. When taunt goes down or the missle comes back available I use them again. Give 8 slots for a combat build and let the players use those 8 slots how they want for auto combat? I would like that a lot more than having to just keep pressing the same buttons over and over.

Well, Smugglers 4 does offer a blind compatibility mode that makes it possible to use common screen reader software.

(Sorry about that

)

It would be no problem to include an auto resolve mode. I just hesitated to make the game too much automated. Still if it�s asked for...

@VanRocko: I�ve send you a PM.

< Message edited by NielsB -- 10/22/2009 6:20:51 PM >

(in reply to killroyishere)

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 6:19:54 PM

killroyishere

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quote:

Well, Smugglers 4 does offer a blind compatibility mode that makes it possible to use common screen reader software

How does that work?

(in reply to NielsB)

Post #: 24

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 6:23:24 PM

NielsB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

quote:

Well, Smugglers 4 does offer a blind compatibility mode that makes it possible to use common screen reader software

How does that work?

Oh, ah, well. While it actually does offer a blind compatibility mode, in your case I�ve just been kidding of course.

The blind compatibility mode can be activated in the options menu. It�s meant for people with a disability. Most games let those people down, so I decided to include a special mode that makes it even possible for completely blind people to play the game. The mode puts on special text tags that can be read out loud by using third-party screen reading software. It has caused some good feedback from the blind player community (yes, something like that does really exist).

(in reply to killroyishere)

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RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 6:50:00 PM

boatrigm

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I got the older demo and like the game. Is there a way to have the game change the screen resolution into 800x600 and then back to my desk top res? That would really make the game easier to play.

(in reply to NielsB)

Post #: 26

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 9:20:56 PM

Mike Parker

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I went and downloaded the demo last night and stayed up till 12:30 playing it.. which is alot considering a need to get up at 5:30. It can sure be addicting, I am assuming even more so when the options open up and combat becomes less predictable.

(in reply to boatrigm)

Post #: 27

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 9:30:05 PM

JudgeDredd

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I honestly didn't find the combat that repetitive. There was an element, but I was pretty much on the edge of my seat most of the time, hoping my missile hit or my ECM worked. It was fairly fast.

And I could imagine it being better as you move through the different ships.

I may change my mind in the future though...time will tell

(in reply to boatrigm)

Post #: 28

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 9:44:22 PM

killroyishere

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Well I went back and played two 300 turn episodes on veteran difficulty of the demo version and lost 1 battle in 600 turns.

I must say the mercenary has an excellent ship and start out skills. I quickly upgraded to the 70% ecm and the 12pt damage but only 1 action point required laser (this can overheat if you fire too much successively but since I use aim before every shot it never did). Only reason I lost that one battle is the game decided to have the ai hit me twice in a row before my ship got a turn to repair. My pattern of battle really hasn't changed from what I described before except when I'm ahead in armor I will use that dual blast skill of the initial mercenary skills that blasts for 42 pts damage if it hits. With the aim feature it hits about 70% of the time. Cargo bay of merc ship is only 20 though so it's not much for being a trader it's more geared for just taking what loot you can get from the battles you win. One could spend a long time just in the Sol system and level up it would appear. I remember doing this in Privateer until I could afford one of the I think it was Centurion ships that cost like 270.000 credits in this game they are called Corvettes but basically same upgrade style. It offers up a lot of opportunities to find artifacts and give them to the government for fame/experience points. Plenty of free treasure to pickup as well. It's perhaps too giving in those departments and makes an easy game even easier. Plenty of missions to choose from and I tended to take either the solo seek missions or the patrol ones as these gave up the most battle opportunies and loot.
I'll give this game credit for another thing it just makes me want another Freelancer game with a flucuating economy/market.

Question?: Does the govenor missions give more fame/experience than the local missions generator? It never really shows how much experience you will get just how many credits you will receive.

Also I notice reinforcements show up and it says need 3 ap to activate do I need to save 3 ap before I end turn to get them to fire?

< Message edited by killroyishere -- 10/22/2009 9:49:55 PM >

(in reply to Mike Parker)

Post #: 29

RE: First Impressions & Feedback Thread - 10/22/2009 10:21:21 PM

JudgeDredd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
Also I notice reinforcements show up and it says need 3 ap to activate do I need to save 3 ap before I end turn to get them to fire?

No I don't think so. When they show up, they simply take pot shots on your behalf. I think they even try to ECM if the enemy ship fired a missile at you.

I have just played the demo again, this time not on tutorial. Whilst I didn't lose any battles, I was close to clicking the evasive button to get the hell out of Dodge.

My experience with the battles is like yours...here's my sequence

1. Fire Missile & click Target
2. Fire guns, click target and fire guns again
3. Fire Guns, click target and click taunt
etc
etc
etc

However, unlike you I haven't as yet found it boring. On the contrary, I find it quite tense. Hoping my ECM works before the missile strikes. Hoping my targeting works. Hoping the enemy ECM fails. I spend most of my time watching the reinforcements and the "energy" bars!

I upgraded my ship to new missiles and new ECM. Trouble was the new ECm, whilst stood 70% chance of decoying, cost 5APs. Not only that, I wasn't entirely sure it was worth the money or the APs. I seemed to have just as good results with the oridnary ECM. Same with the missiles. They seemed to be foxed by the enemy just as easily as my originals.

But I got to the end of the 300 turns and still wasn't bored with it. I even put off going to get a drink for 20 minutes whilst I played.

I think I will have to get this. I'm looking froward to all the opportunities it offeres with all the different combinations. And at �20, I think it's a steal.

(in reply to killroyishere)

Post #: 30