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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: USELESS Corsair.

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/15/2010 6:17:25 PM

gladiatt

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< Message edited by gladiatt -- 10/4/2010 10:09:21 AM >

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Chungking surrounded - 9/15/2010 6:23:01 PM

gladiatt

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CHINA

20th february, 6 japanese Tank Regiments cross the river north of the capital. The 3 chinese Warbands are shaken, still hold the place, but the fact is here: Chungking is surrounded and isolated.....

Look at the map, it will be clear

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Post #: 362

BURMA - 9/15/2010 6:44:16 PM

gladiatt

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BURMA 11th - 20th february

Luang Prabang
Several raids from Dacca try to close the base. There is usually a CAP of around 12-15 Tony.
My F4U units tangle with this cap on 15th and 16th february, downing 2 planes for 2 losses (one ops).
But the 4E manage to score some hits. Loosing 5 bombers, they destroy 22 planes on ground, and 115 runway hits spread in the week.
The base is now at 30% damaged.

Andaman
Still trying to slow or halt any repair by the japs here.
My bombers have some long trip to come over these islands. The japs CAP too !
10 raids gather 147 sorties of my 4E; the losses are 1 Zero destroyed for 4 bombers lost to ops losses (not a single direct A2A loss).
The result on airfield is scarce, but it seem to be still around 75% damaged.

On 13th february, jap ML Wakatake hits 7 mines !!!! and sink.
But i am now aware that this island is now covered by a shield of jap mines.

Irrawaddy

Some lack of coordination cost me some planes.
- For example on 14th february, 30 B-25 have only 3 P-38 on escort. The encounter with 17 Tony cost me 3 B-25 and 1 P-38.

- 18th feb, 7 japs fighters are lost for 6 P-38 and 9 bombers.
- 19th feb another raid above Irrawaddy cost me once more 6 P-38 for 7 japs fighters. The same day, one hex north of this, a sweep of 23 Corsair encounter 39 Tony. 11 Tony are downed for 9 Corsairs. Not a good rate.

This 19th february, the harassement of the japs units just west of Pagan has so much result that it lead Jan to set a trap.
I had become so predictable that the trap was succesfull (so not for me).
A LRCAP of 14 Tony is set above these units. My planes came in 4 waves without escort ( the escort was elswhere : i wish i could "attach" a fighter squadron for escort duty

). 15 allied bombers are downed for 1 Tony.

20th also, after a long time without any bombing by the japs, 26 sally resume the attack, bombing 14th Chindit Bde on the south Irrawaddy.

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RE: BURMA - 9/15/2010 6:52:34 PM

gladiatt

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DEI 11th - 20th february

Koepang.

- 11th feb, raid on Koepang with 11 P-38+ 8 B-25C+ 94 B17 against 31 japs fighters. 2 Zeros are downed for 2 P-38 and 5 bombers. Hits on airbase 2, on runway 110.

- 16th feb, raid on Koepang with 17 P-38+ 12 B-25C+ 72 B-17 against 40 japs fighters. 7 Japs are downed for 4 P-38 and 4 bombers. Airbase 6 hits, runway 56 hits.

Dili on Timor
captured on 15th feb by a Nav Gd Unit.

Jolo fall on 16th february. The 119th USAAF wich surrender was mostly depleted by the japs bombing campaign, and also evacuated (roughly 30% of the unit) by subs.

Cebu is bombarded daily by 8-10 sallys. 81st Philippinos Div won't hold for long if assaulted.

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Post #: 364

SOPAC quiet , almost - 9/15/2010 6:58:02 PM

gladiatt

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SOPAC 11th-20th february

Gili Gili is bombed as often as weather allow.

Efate bombed from time to time. Japs subs are back, none are hits by my ASW planes ( SBD and B-25C flying at 1000 feet ).
Still unable to send a TF of ASW ship, they would be torn appart by bettys from Guadalcanal.

Port Moresby
SS RO-63 lurk there since one week (had already sunk a Australian MSW) .

18th february, coming from Gasmata, a sweep of 30 Tony shoot down 5 of my planes for 14 Tonys

Funafuti
Usual jap CAP is 3 Rufe and 3 or 4 Zeros.
Raid on 12th, 13th, 19th and 20th by roughly 30 B-24. Total losses are 3 B-24 for 4 japs. The hits on the base are too scarce to have an impact, the base have a 0% damage indicator. By intel, i know there is a Naval Construction Battalion there, i don't know how long it will take to raise to a level 2 with offensive capacity.

KB
Spotted 13th february East of Canton Island, slowly sailing back toward the Gilberts.
A bunch of sub are sent to supposed return road. But in 5 days, 4 of them are damaged by Kates on ASW duty. Only 1 sub (Herring) manage to be on the same hex than KB on 19th february, but it is damaged by a Kate before being able to shoot

.

SUB WAR
In 10 days :
16 sub attack; 8 japs ASW attack; 5 target hits, all sinked ( 1 AO, 1 AK, 2 MSW, 1 TK ).
6 subs hits and 2 by planes. No subs lost .

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< Message edited by gladiatt -- 9/15/2010 7:06:52 PM >

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/15/2010 10:09:11 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

Bob, i have no other choice than waiting. But waiting for what ? The P-47D ? ( P-47C come quicker, but with 20 airframe produce by month it will be useless, can't sustain the loss rate of this game). The P-51D ?
The F4U maybe can improve; but it is far different than some AAR i had read (Witp Vanill with no mods. Thinking of one AAR of Castor Troy, and one of Andy Mac vs PzB) where the Corsair are killers right at their first fight.

You probably just had some bad die rolls, but it wasn't clear what the circumstances of the air battle were... were you escorting? sweeping? getting swept?*

*edit: in a couple more posts, you said you were sweeping, but you were outnumbered almost 2 to 1 (39 vs 23) - the Corsair performed pretty well given this... the outnumbered party usually will suffer something like the ratio it is fighting at... i.e., since you were outnumbered almost 2 to 1, your losses should have been 1 to 2... as it was, you did better than 1 to 1. Pretty good, i think, particularly if the Japanese unit is more experienced.

By "give it more time" i meant you (gladiatt) need to see more of what the plane will do... you just can't think that the first encounter (or even first few) is going to be the way it going to be for the rest of the game. I.e. - when you first got the P-38 you thought they absolutely sucked... immediately after Jan 1 you thought the USN subs were still horrible. Now both are performing pretty well for you.

The worst thing you can say about the Corsair is that it only shot down a couple more aircraft than it lost. Given that the P-38 was "horrible" at the start and is now doing good work, the Corsair is starting a mediocre and will likely end as meteoric (as in superb).

The Corsair will almost undoubtedly turn into an absolute killing machine if used correctly... conduct sweeps in strength, try to figure out the enemy altitude and come in around 3K feet above what they operate at. Also, try to conduct sweeps at only small distances... operating at or beyond normal range is a big no-no.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 9/15/2010 10:14:31 PM >

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/20/2010 4:26:26 PM

rominet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

The Corsair will almost undoubtedly turn into an absolute killing machine if used correctly... conduct sweeps in strength, try to figure out the enemy altitude and come in around 3K feet above what they operate at. Also, try to conduct sweeps at only small distances... operating at or beyond normal range is a big no-no.

Hi

What do you mean by "try to figure out the enemy altitude"?
I was thinking that at WitP, altitude had no influence on dogfights. And i have never noticed anything in my games.
Am i wrong?
If there is a subject concerning this point on this forum, i am interested in.

Same question concerning the effect of range.

< Message edited by rominet -- 9/20/2010 4:29:33 PM >

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/20/2010 8:12:14 PM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

By "give it more time" i meant you (gladiatt) need to see more of what the plane will do... you just can't think that the first encounter (or even first few) is going to be the way it going to be for the rest of the game. I.e. - when you first got the P-38 you thought they absolutely sucked... immediately after Jan 1 you thought the USN subs were still horrible. Now both are performing pretty well for you.

- Well, the P-38 is not bad but it is not a perfect plane: sadly the Ki61 Tony is very tough opponant. There are fight that don't turn at the advantage of the Lightnings.

The worst thing you can say about the Corsair is that it only shot down a couple more aircraft than it lost. Given that the P-38 was "horrible" at the start and is now doing good work, the Corsair is starting a mediocre and will likely end as meteoric (as in superb).

The Corsair will almost undoubtedly turn into an absolute killing machine if used correctly... conduct sweeps in strength, try to figure out the enemy altitude and come in around 3K feet above what they operate at. Also, try to conduct sweeps at only small distances... operating at or beyond normal range is a big no-no.

- Well, i heard your advice, and i really appreciate it. But i find it "sad" to use planes at minimal ranges. I will fight with what i can until one of the opponant die ( probably me in 2 or 3 years....).

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/20/2010 8:14:09 PM

gladiatt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

I was thinking that at WitP, altitude had no influence on dogfights. And i have never noticed anything in my games.

If there is a subject concerning this point on this forum, i am interested in.

Same question concerning the effect of range.

Very interested in the reply too

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Post #: 369

small success in Burma - 9/20/2010 8:31:20 PM

gladiatt

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22 TH FEBRUARY

BURMA
The threat that jap 21st div was putting on the supply path of my main force on south Irrawaddy is cleared !

On 22th february, after 2 weeks of walk through jungle, 29th Chinese Division reinforce 49th chinese corps.
With the help of weeks of bombing on this unit (by air and land), this reinforcement is enough to repulse the japs unit.
The casualties are light on each side (100 jap casualties for 25 allies), but the real result is to free me.

On 23th february, my troops on south Irrawaddy tried to attack the japs there ( i was hoping that weeks of air bombing could have the same result than on 21st jap div), but i failed.

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small success in China - 9/20/2010 8:43:22 PM

gladiatt

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23th FEBRUARY

After the crossing of the river north of Chungking by 6 japanese tank regiments , on 20th february, my "warbands" managed to hold the place. But the Line of Communication between Chengtu and Chungking is closed.
Taking advantage that my units don't suffer too much of disruption , and that 2 warbands come in reinforcement from Chengtu, and also that a chinese bomber squadron of B-25J straffe the japs since 3 days, i launch a series of continuous deliberate attack .
With luck (skill ????

), i manage to repulse them on the other side of the river.
This is not a big victory (at least 11 vp, wich surprise me because there was only 128 jap casualties and 13 vehicules, for 600 chinese). But at least it could disrupt the tanks regiments, waste a bit of jap supply, and buy a bit of time.

EDIT : Jan is once again on hollidays for 10 days. (sound like Tocaff

).
Hope my readers will accept this.
(damn, i am still surprised by the numbers of hits on my AAR

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/21/2010 1:31:25 AM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

The Corsair will almost undoubtedly turn into an absolute killing machine if used correctly... conduct sweeps in strength, try to figure out the enemy altitude and come in around 3K feet above what they operate at. Also, try to conduct sweeps at only small distances... operating at or beyond normal range is a big no-no.

Hi

What do you mean by "try to figure out the enemy altitude"?
I was thinking that at WitP, altitude had no influence on dogfights. And i have never noticed anything in my games.
Am i wrong?
If there is a subject concerning this point on this forum, i am interested in.

Same question concerning the effect of range.

Altitude DEFINITELY has an effect on air-to-air combat: you want to set your fighters about 3000 feet above the enemy altitude... you will get many more "bounces" (surprise attacks) on the enemy if you do... too low, and you will just be climbing to the attack (and the enemy will also have the advantage)... too high, and you will lose a lot of time diving (also, you may not spot the enemy if it is cloudy and you have no radar).

It is a tricky business trying to guess altitude in the game, though... normally, you "set up" your opponent by bombing at a "set" altitude (say 6,000 feet)... this encourages the enemy to fly at 9-10K feet... then you sweep at around 13,000 feet... it is a guessing game, though.

Similarly: range has a drastic effect on combat... fly to far, and you will be at a severe disadvantage (due to fatigue)... also, longer flights tend to fragment formations, so instead of 50 planes arriving in one large flight at (say) a range of 1 hex, you might have 5-6 flights of 8-10 planes if you fly at a range of 5 hexes...

Of course, if the enemy has a CAP of 20 planes, it can make mincemeat of 5 flights of 10, whereas it will take serious damage if 100 planes show up all at the same time.

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/22/2010 10:45:23 AM

rominet

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Thanks for your quick answer rtrapasso, i will try again.
I say again because if my memory is good, i have already tryied but i never noticed something significative on this subjects.
It is probably a subtil effect.

I have a last question:
if my opponent sends its bombers at 6000 feet, i should set my CAP altitude at 9000.
But if there are fighters escort, should i set my fighter still at 9000 or rather at 12000 because escort usually fly 2000 or 3000 feet above the bombers?

PS: d�sol� gladiatt, j'arr�te de polluer ton AAR.

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/22/2010 9:22:37 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

Thanks for your quick answer rtrapasso, i will try again.
I say again because if my memory is good, i have already tryied but i never noticed something significative on this subjects.
It is probably a subtil effect.

I have a last question:
if my opponent sends its bombers at 6000 feet, i should set my CAP altitude at 9000.
But if there are fighters escort, should i set my fighter still at 9000 or rather at 12000 because escort usually fly 2000 or 3000 feet above the bombers?

If there is going to be an escort, set your CAP around 2000 feet higher... so, to defend against bombers attacking at 6K feet that have an escort, set CAP around 11K.

Similarly, if you have been bombing at 6K WITH escorts, the defender will probably set his cap at 11K feet, so sweep at 14K feet.

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RE: USELESS Corsair. - 9/23/2010 8:46:55 AM

gladiatt

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Rtrapasso : thanks for all the information, will try to use them wisely once the game resume

Olivier (Rominet) : pas de probleme, tu interviens quand tu veux. A l'occasion j'esp�re m�me qu'un jour tu pourras me feliciter

All readers : how many are you ? I can't guess, but it seem there are quite a good number of hits after each of my update. Is it really that interesting ? Don't hesitate to comment, support, give advice, judge, or else. Sorry for not being the most enjoyable player on the board (feeling a bit like ranting Castor Troy, but without the skill level of Castor; Castor, if ever you read this, no offense mean here

).

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End of february - 10/2/2010 2:46:58 PM

gladiatt

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21th - 28th february 1943

DEI

Koepang
2 raids are sent, on 24th and 28th, gathering roughly 100 bombers and 20 P-38 against the jap LRCAP of 30+ Fighters.
Loss amount to 10 japs fighters for 7 P-38 and 8 bombers. A total of 130 hits on runway and 3 on airbase had been scored, but the airfield seem to repair quite quickly: probably a good number of jap engineers here.

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Post #: 376

Jack appear ! - 10/2/2010 2:54:48 PM

gladiatt

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SOPAC

Funafuti

a raid on 23th february gather 32 B-24 against 3 Rufe and 3 zeros. 1 zero and 1 Alf are destroyed on ground, 3 allies bombers damaged (and 2 ops losses), 1 hit on airbase and 5 on runway. Not enough.

As the damages are too few, i decided to send a cruiser TF to bombard the place before it raise to level 2.
But for some reason, despite having order set to "Do not refuel", the TF lost 250 ops point each day during 3 days, and being unable to get in range of hit and run on Funafuti.
When it could have been OK, Funafuti raised to level 2 on 26th february....my TF was too late !!

.
My B-24 group on Pago should also had raided the place once more but weather or bad luck (or both) prevented me to bomb Funafuti until 28th february

.
As usual, my goal is failed, and Funafuti can create a threat to my LOC between West Coast and Australia.

At last my raid goes on 28th, to meet the first Jack (in line before March ???? Damn, the industrial output of my opponant is probably so huge that it can make R&D so quick !!; by the end of game, my silly little production of plane would be outproduced by the japs.
I HATE THIS GAME.

EDIT ABOUT KB:
KB reached Tarawa on 26th february. But as soon as 28th, it is already back on the move, going south (so roughly heading toward Fiji). I must admit that i fear what it could do.

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BURMA FRONT - 10/2/2010 3:05:09 PM

gladiatt

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Andaman.

3 raids made by lone bomber squadron managed no particular result. The jap LRCAP lack of strengh also, and there is no direct loss on either side (although a amount of 5 ops losses of my bombers).
At least, on 24th, a raid by 45 B-17 manage to score 2 hits on airbase and 22 on runway.
But between crew fatigue and a perpetual bad weather in Bengal Bay, i am not sure to be able to keep this base close at will.
One day i will fail, i know it.

Luang Prabang

In one week, 3 raids managed only 15 hits on runway, the jap LRCAP is tough (30 fighters), my bombers never managed to have P-38 to escort them ( can i shoot the squadron leader

). 5 planes are lost on each side but the base is not closed.
All efforts are abandonned.

Irrawaddy
After my small succes of 22th february, i am able to make a withdrawal of my forces north, avoiding some flank manoeuver by the japs.
There are some dogfight, but a lot of bad luck (or unskill player maybe) make a lot of my fighter squadron never flew to fight the japs

.
On 23th february, 16 F4U Corsair and 30 P-40 fight 30 Tony and 10 Tojo. Loss amount to 18 planes for each side : if i want to attrit him, or to start winning this game, this is not a good result. Anyway, i start to be used at it: i won't achieve anything in this game.
On 24th and 27th, the P-38 escort don't come with my bombers, costing me 11 planes

.
( i really can't shoot the squadron leader ??)

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Post #: 378

CHINA - 10/2/2010 3:11:42 PM

gladiatt

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WERE ARE MY ESCORTS ?

Roughly, i made 2 or 3 separate raids ( no decision of my own here, i can't gather my effort from the same base !!!!) per day against the japs closing to Yunan. P-38 of AVG show very rarely !! (??

Why ??? Am i entitled to bad die roll all the time).
Fotunately from time to time my bombers reply to the japs, or when AVG show ups.
6 planes are lost on each side between 21th and 28th february.
March will be even worse.

SUB WAR

For some reason, my subs don't find targets any more, even when on the same hex than japs TF spotted for days by my patrol planes (for example, Guadalcanal, Tulagi or Rabaul are in range of my patrol planes, TF are spotted but my sub refused to engage !)
There are 2 subs attacks. One of them manage to sink a jap AK.
The other one: look at the screenshot. Sadly, it won't be useful....

There is no particular damages on the combat report. This monster is too big. At the most, it will be 15 days in repair yard.

In this same week, the japs TF managed 6 ASW attacks on my subs, hitting 2 of them. The ASW Air is tougher : 5 subs are hit, 3 in danger of sinking and one already dead ( O-16 reached port but sinked next day !).

ALL in all, this war don't go well................

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Post #: 379

VP - 10/2/2010 3:19:06 PM

gladiatt

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February VP

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RE: CHINA - 10/2/2010 3:20:30 PM

rtrapasso

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It's always useful to damage a major unit... since the speed of repairs is based on DUR (inverse relationship - the higher the DUR, the slower the repairs), it may be some time before the damage is off Yamato... i've had BBs sitting in SF for WEEKS trying to get off just 10 damage (and still not done).

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Yunan besieged - 10/2/2010 8:41:42 PM

gladiatt

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screenshot is not perfect: only took the OOB;
yunan besieged since 1st march

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Slaughter in the air - 10/2/2010 8:43:38 PM

gladiatt

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slaughter in China

WHAT'S THIS MESS ??
My planes on escort or LRCAP never engage the jap LRCAP !!! resulting in slaughter of my bombers !!
How can a game be so stupid ???

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RE: Slaughter in the air - 10/2/2010 8:45:46 PM

gladiatt

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and once more

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DEI - 10/2/2010 8:48:26 PM

gladiatt

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DEI ; trying to build Aru Island: too far from my LRCAP from Darwin.
Cost: 3 AK+ 1 PT Boat; 5 Brewster. 1 zero downed. 140 mens and 19 vehicules of a See Bee unit.
Building too slow....

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midway threatened ? - 10/2/2010 8:49:49 PM

gladiatt

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4th march. Jap still on the offensive ??
No capability for me to react : CV all together, far away and WITHOUT fuel.

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RE: midway threatened ? - 10/3/2010 8:00:50 AM

rominet

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Salut

une torpille sur le Yamato, je t'assure que �a risque de lui prendre nettement plus que 15 jours de r�parations.
�a m'est arriv� une fois: 20 pts de dommage syst�me, 3 mois plus tard, il n'�tait toujours pas compl�tement r�par�.
Comme dit rtapasso, plus un navire a une durabilit� �lev�e, plus �a prend de temps � r�parer.
Maintenant, l'inconnue est le r�el d�g�t syst�me du navire.

PS; tiens, mon AAR "betty in the sky with torpedoes" va reprendre en novembre.

< Message edited by rominet -- 10/3/2010 8:03:04 AM >

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WTF ????? - 10/3/2010 8:28:11 AM

gladiatt

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4th time.
My LRCAP and escort don't engage (except for 3 poor Hurricanes torn by the japs).
My sweep didn't fly.
Slaughter in China.

Enough is enough, i give up, too many things depend on random or on stupid game system.

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RE: WTF ????? - 10/3/2010 8:48:42 AM

gladiatt

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deleted

< Message edited by gladiatt -- 10/4/2010 10:09:48 AM >

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RE: WTF ????? - 10/3/2010 2:01:43 PM

rtrapasso

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LR-CAP will NEVER assist any attacking bombers: that is just the way the game is structured (with LR CAP you are telling your pilots "JUST DEFEND THE HEX - DO NOT ASSIST ANYONE)... it is ONLY useful in protecting the hex FROM attacking ENEMY bombers.

If you want to get fighters to escort your bombers more effectively, you need:
1) get more effective leaders in your fighter squadrons.
2) you need to the AIR-HQ units involved: set the objective of the unit to the area you want attacked... this will mobilized more fighters (and bombers) to fly when attacking that hex.

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 390

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: USELESS Corsair.