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RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 7:44:45 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		OK, we'll try the reverse engineering without pulling anything apart.

The 3 CV TFs in front of the Yorktown are presumably on "cruise" setting making 4 hexes per phase. Not needing a fuel top up, in theory they would make 8 hexes in a day + night. The Yorktown at flank speed would make 9 hexes per phase = 18 hexes in 24 hours, a net gain 10 hexes. Hence if you set the Yorktown TF to meet the others, they would all rendezvous in 24 hours.

This is info which I assume you already knew. Therefore the bit where we are supposed to pretend that you haven't read the rules involves how much fuel would be consumed (as per page 105 of the manual). The critical ship here is the smallest DD which you state has 5000 endurance. To travel the full 18 hexes at flank speed, this DD would consume the following fuel (or reduction in its endurance):

(a) 8 hexes on cruise speed consumption @ 240 endurance per hex = 1920 endurance
(b) 10 hexes above cruise speed consumption @ 240 endurance per hex = 2400 endurance

Thus that 24 hour travel at flank speed is going to reduce the endurance of your lowest DD by 4320. You would be left with only 680. This is assuming that no combat occurs or planes launched which would further reduce endurance. The net result will almost certainly be that the Yorktown TF will be considered to be low fuel at the end of the 24 hour travel and it will attempt to refuel at sea.

Hope that helps.

Alfred

Edit: rereading page 105 suggests I goofed and your fuel consumption will be even higher viz

18 hexes at 240 per hex = 4320 +
10 hexes at 240 per hex = 2400

You won't make the rendezvous in 24 hours. With only 5000 endurance, your DD is going to need refueling in the second 12 hour phase, thus delaying the rendezvous to the next day

< Message edited by Alfred -- 12/20/2010 7:49:55 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3061
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 8:49:50 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Cap Mandrake,

Mea culpa mea culpa. I really seem to have made a hash of page 105.

The correct figures (until the next edit) are

40 endurance consumed per hex travelled at cruising speed
240 endurance per hex travelled at flank speed

Hence (fingers crossed) your DD would consume

40 x 8 = 320 plus
240 x 10 = 2400

=2720 endurance used by your DD in that 24 hour flank travel to rendezvous.

Whether you would then be low on fuel and require at sea refueling would depend on whether the remaining endurance would allow return to Pago (I assume that is the home port) at cruising speed using up 40 endurance per hex.

Alfred

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3062
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 9:06:28 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I think I'll stick to TLAR

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



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Post #: 3063
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 9:56:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		TLAR


"That Looks About Right"

Before computers were used to aim anit-aircraft guns, they used TLAR.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLAR

You can also buy TLAR mugs and T-shirts there.

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Post #: 3064
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 10:29:33 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.

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Post #: 3065
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 10:36:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 3066
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/20/2010 11:38:40 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"





_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

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Post #: 3067
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 2:30:28 AM   
Moondawggie


Posts: 403
Joined: 10/18/2003
From: Placer County CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"



You sure that isn't an old Bobby Fischer Chess gambit he used to destroy Boris Spasky?

_____________________________

"The Yankees got all the smart ones, and look where it got them."

General George Pickett, the night before Gettysburg

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Post #: 3068
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 3:52:12 AM   
Mynok


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Whoa! That was a nostalgic flashback there Dawgie. Those Fisher/Spasky games used be published in the paper in my hometown. Dad and I would play them through. Good times. Of course, I always seemed to get Spasky's side. Think I know where my competitive streak comes from.

Fisher was a Martian ya know. Wierdness is your first clue.


_____________________________

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Post #: 3069
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 5:10:37 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Spassky used to do an absolutely hilarious impression of Fischer.

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Post #: 3070
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 7:11:34 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		Merry Christmas gentlement and ladies if any are reading.

My login was LEESZU

I took that as Karma as in less me and more others. :)


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Post #: 3071
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 7:11:59 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		Honestly by the way that is what it asked.

Ok so it is corney Kill more LYB Carriers! I am over it now.

< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 12/21/2010 7:14:36 AM >

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Post #: 3072
Game Day - 12/21/2010 6:07:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		....




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3073
RE: Game Day - 12/21/2010 6:33:25 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I considered setting the cruisers to "remain on station" at Suva, but there is no AE at Suva and almost all the fighters are set to "escort" to encourage the SBD's to attack.

Range on the SBD's is chopped back to 6 so they won't attack without escort. Most of the B-26's at Nadi are on naval attack to mop up some Zeroes (don't say anything to the B-26 guys...OK?).

The carriers should be out of it this turn unless the Jap carriers sprint Eastward after refueling. More likely the Jap carriers will stand off Suva and cover the landing there. If the LYB carriers stay where they are, the SBD's at Suva will likely go after the surface forces at Nadi or the transports at Suva or both.

The Allied carriers will retain the TBF's and Albacores and one 18-plane F4F squadron per deck (except for Illustrious which has 9 RN F4F variants). Wasp should end the turn South of Samoa. With only 9 TBD's aboard, she will be retained as a reserve, detaching North Carolina for surface duty.

Pennsylvania, 9th Marine Regt, SouPac Air HQ, ground support and 1st Marine Def Bn are about 5 days out to the South.

Opposing ground forces at Suva below.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3074
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 6:35:50 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"


In the sake of consistency, shouldn't it be TRAL?

"That Rook About Light"

_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

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Post #: 3075
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 7:02:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"


In the sake of consistency, shouldn't it be TRAL?

"That Rook About Light"


Let me guess. You are a physicist or engineer, right*? Always with the symmetry.

* Could also be a mathematician.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/21/2010 7:05:13 PM >

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Post #: 3076
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 7:09:23 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The IJN used the Man With Stick director system for 25mm batteries.


That was called TRAR

"That Rook About Right"


In the sake of consistency, shouldn't it be TRAL?

"That Rook About Light"


Let me guess. You are a physicist or engineer, right*? Always with the symmetry.

* Could also be a mathematician.

Nope. Army LtCol ... but I was a computer programmer before switching careers, so the symmetry comment isn't that far off the mark

_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

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Post #: 3077
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 7:35:15 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		How many forts do you have at Suva?

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Post #: 3078
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 8:29:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		3 forts, 278 Assault points. Middling preparation for most units.

The LYB landing force is getting beat up badly on the beaches but they brought hot-shot regiments from New Scotland. Of course, they might not be well prepped either.

Help is on the way if the LYB carriers can be driven off.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3079
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 9:10:34 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Help is on the way if the LYB carriers can be driven off.


Nothing says "Sod off" quite like a 1000lb bomb through the flight deck.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3080
RE: Game Day - 12/21/2010 10:48:46 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

....




Great action plan there, Cap'n. Having the SCTFs come in from the East, LRCAPed by carrier air still at a distance. Where did you come up with such a brilliant plan of action?

_____________________________


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Post #: 3081
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 10:50:07 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

Help is on the way if the LYB carriers can be driven off.


Nothing says "Sod off" quite like a 1000lb bomb through the flight deck.

No. "Sod off" is in metric. "F*** off" still is notated in ye olde pound measurements.

_____________________________


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Post #: 3082
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 11:25:12 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		******************With VMSB 232, near Suva, 10:15, June 26, 1942****************

Major Griffin is very satisfied. The weather has been good. Cohesion with the Marine and Navy F4F's has been good. Recon was spot on. He looks to his right through the open canopy. There are 3 Jap flattops churning up circular arcs in the blue water. It is quite beautiful. He signals half the squadron to take the Northernmost carrier. His section will take the nearest carrier.

He depresses his mike button, "Game day boys! Kill me some Japs!" He deploys his air brakes partly and pushes over into a dive "**** you Nippon!"



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3083
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/21/2010 11:31:29 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		Spoilers or imagination ? The world wonders.

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Post #: 3084
RE: Game Day - 12/22/2010 12:11:47 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Great action plan there, Cap'n. Having the SCTFs come in from the East, LRCAPed by carrier air still at a distance. Where did you come up with such a brilliant plan of action?


Key not plan. Key is sacrifice to Great White Totonka.

Never EVER regift to Totonka. Totonka know.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3085
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/22/2010 12:24:19 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Totonka LIKE new Apple Air.............

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Post #: 3086
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/22/2010 12:28:02 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		It might have gone better if English got in among the transports but..................


Morning Air attack on TF, near Nadi at 128,165

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
E13A1 Jake x 3



Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 55


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kisaragi
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Mutsuki, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Harusame
CS Chiyoda, Bomb hits 2
DD Urakaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Wakaba



Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and
17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and
17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and
17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Chitose-2 with E13A1 Jake (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead
Chiyoda-1 with E13A1 Jake (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead
Chiyoda-2 with E13A1 Jake (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiyo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Japanese CV
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Urakaze


The strike is superbly coordinated (except for the P-39's who go in ahead of the bombers...even this is fortuitous)..Totonka REALLY LIKE his new Apple Air. The escort number is greater than the CAP. Losses are amazingly low. It is a home run.

28% Hit rate for the SBD's. Not bad. Good enough. I don't know where Hosho went.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3087
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/22/2010 12:38:51 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Woo hoo!! Congratulations!!!

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Post #: 3088
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/22/2010 12:44:24 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Cap'n: Nice shootin' Tex.

Lord Admiral Sprior: Jolly good show, old boy. Jolly good.

_____________________________


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Post #: 3089
RE: Dancing with the Stars - 12/22/2010 1:15:26 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		And the afternoon raid. Note the "CAP" is reduced to a few Jakes, suggesting the 3 CV's are unable to conduct air ops.

Looks like Hosho lucked out by hiding in someone else's smoke.


Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nadi at 128,165

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 4



Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
SBD-3 Dauntless x 28


Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, on fire
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CS Chiyoda, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Yamakaze
DD Harusame



Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Chitose-2 with E13A1 Jake (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead
Chiyoda-1 with E13A1 Jake (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
Chiyoda-2 with E13A1 Jake (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Japanese CVL

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3090
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