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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever.

 
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RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 1:37:10 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap
Can't really say I ever got into SotS. Just felt rather shallow, gameplay-wise, and I think I disliked the UI/camera or some such.

There are lots of misconceptions about SotS. The original game had flaws but they released numerous addons and patches to improve it. Make sure you have played the latest version before making judgements.

Realtime space combat can at first seem too cumbersome but once you learn to slow the time and also learn the shortcut keys youll have no problem with it. I thought it was awful at first until I learned to slow the time and use
shortcut keys.

The game felt very shallow at first but once you play it actually shows a lot of hidden depth. Thers lots of stuff you wont notice at first until you actually give it a good playthrough. There are lots of hidden suprises like AI rebellions or stuff like asteroid defense. If you research heavily into AI weapons you might have AI rebel on you.

Ship design might seem simple at first but once you do research you get so much new options that it actually become very detailed and interesting. Ship weapons are not just different in damage but in effect. I.E "space cannons" dont just do damage on enemy ships they push them too throwing them off course. With good number of good cannons you can put enemy ships in uncontrallabe spin.

Ship design and combat plays a major role in this game. It might seem shallow at first but thats just because lack of research. Once you advance the options open for you and actually see all the variety. And it not just fluff. It really makes big difference how you design your ships and how you use them in battle.

Som combat detail examples. Ship weapons cant fire 360 degrees. They are lock to certain side excluding turreted weapons. You can pause the game with shortcut and order your ships to destroy individual components of enemy ships by simply clicking that point (i.e turret, engine, fuel tank, etc) in the ship. Ships have different manouvering speed according to their race, class and design. Small fast ships could manouver around a big ship avoiding its forward weapons while taking out its turrets. The game has visible damage. You can actually see damage on armor and individual components. Also Im not 100% but I think that solid weapons like cannon shots can ricochet. Atleast they look like they do if they hit on bad angle. At times the space is full of sharpnell from ricochets.

Of course if combat is not what you like most in 4X then this might not be for you. In SotS youll spend lots of time in it just like in moo2. Its not a meaningless sidefeature like in galciv2.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 2/4/2011 10:22:14 PM >

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(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 91
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 2:10:05 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		I agree with Zakhal. SOTS now has three expansions, those being Born of Blood, Murder of Crows, and Argos Naval Yards. You can buy the complete collection at Amazon for about $20 right now.

< Message edited by Sabin Stargem -- 2/4/2011 2:11:50 AM >

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 92
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 2:12:19 AM   
Raap

 

Posts: 404
Joined: 1/12/2011
Status: offline 		Don't think I played enough battles to really see such depth in it. I guess I was more referring to the planet/empire system, i.e. the actual 'governing your empire' part of the game. I'll definitely try it out with the latest patches and expansions though. Did they ever remove that 'count-down' thingy after pressing end-turn? Seem to remember being somewhat annoyed with it.

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 93
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 2:16:48 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		The lack of planetary development is what I feel to be a weakness in SOTS. I am really hoping that SOTS2 would improve things in that regard.

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 94
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 5:51:32 AM   
Krec


Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		SEV 5 1.79 Latest BM
SMAC AX
MOO2

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(in reply to Sabin Stargem)
Post #: 95
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 7:55:35 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

Don't think I played enough battles to really see such depth in it. I guess I was more referring to the planet/empire system, i.e. the actual 'governing your empire' part of the game. I'll definitely try it out with the latest patches and expansions though. Did they ever remove that 'count-down' thingy after pressing end-turn? Seem to remember being somewhat annoyed with it.

Dont remember such but its 6 months since I last played it (gonna replay today with the ACM mod).

Empire governing in SotS is more like the one in first MoO. The combats themselves can last up to 30-45min per single turn so having micro galaxy management would make the game very slow.

One more combat detail that came to mind is collisions. If ships engines are destroyed or damaged and its on course towards asteroid or planet it might not have enough engine power to avoid crashing. Ive lost a starting colony to dreadnaught that crashed my planet on a light spin when its engines were damaged on first contact while it was near the planet.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 2/4/2011 7:56:32 AM >

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 96
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 8:07:46 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabin Stargem

The lack of planetary development is what I feel to be a weakness in SOTS. I am really hoping that SOTS2 would improve things in that regard.


I always saw it, if not as a strength, at least as a distinguishing feature of SotS. I'd only see it as a weakness if the consequence was shallow and unchallenging gameplay and the fully developed SotS is far from shallow and unchallenging. SotS is as much a sci-fi wargame as a 4X, which is one reason I particularly like it. If I want to worry too much about planetary development and such it's not as if there is any shortage of alternative games.

(in reply to Sabin Stargem)
Post #: 97
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 1:43:26 PM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		It is true that the game is focused. :)

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 98
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 7:30:46 PM   
martok


Posts: 837
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabin Stargem

The lack of planetary development is what I feel to be a weakness in SOTS. I am really hoping that SOTS2 would improve things in that regard.

I didn't care for Sword of the Stars either for the same reason.

However, I don't think you can really call it a weakness, as this was a deliberate design decision on the part of the developers. They were intentionally going for a game with streamlined empire-building, so that the focus would mostly be on ship design and combat -- and in this they succeeded very well.


It would probably be more accurate to say that SOTS simply isn't going to appeal to the likes of those who, like Sabin Stargem and myself, prefer deeper empire-building & colony development in their 4x titles. I don't have to like the game (and I don't), but I do respect the developers' vision in what they were trying to achieve.




< Message edited by martok -- 2/4/2011 7:31:00 PM >

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(in reply to Sabin Stargem)
Post #: 99
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 11:29:38 PM   
Speedy2511

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 3/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Has anyone tried SotS ACM mod? It looks very impressive. Think I have my weekend planned now:

quote:

ACM Mod features:
  • 19-branched tech-tree (Over 300 techs to develop!).
  • great number of new weapons (including 3-barrelled versions of large weapons, heavy beams and torpedo launchers for projector mounts, 4 new siege weapons such as plasma annihilator and stellar converter, new missile-like torpedoes and many other).
  • new human ship models (all human models, exept stations, were replaced).
  • fast and nible police cutters (gunships).
  • new sections (CR fixed mount comsections that use spinal mounts as main weapons, DE repair and salvage ships for earlier tech salvaging, DOOMSTAR - huge DN based ships acting as flagships and siege weapon platforms).
  • CR beam platforms (CR based platforms with heavy weapons mounted on a huge turret. These weapons could be either heavy beams, projectors or 3-barrelled versions of normal large weapons).
  • CR drone platforms.
  • DN siege platforms (DN based enormous satellites that have a single siege weapon mount to deal with enemy DNs and DOOMSTARS).
  • three types of drones instead of one.
  • replaced swarmer weapons and explosions.
  • totally new explosion, engine and missile/torpedo trail effects.
  • reworked planetary assaults: planets now do not launch missiles, all weapons have reduced damage to planets (~1000 times lower), armor sections now can carry a variety of bombs, dropships are introduced to allow capturing of enemy colonies.
  • improved shielding technology. Shields are now more efficient, but they cost several times more research to develop.
  • new graphics, sounds and texts.


http://mos-rsi.ru/upload/stellar.jpg
http://www.okim.nickersonm.com/sots/newds.jpg
http://mos-rsi.ru/upload/liird.jpg

http://okim.nickersonm.com/sots/manual.html
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6835





This is one of my favourite game and mod!
I played weeks on this game.

It's one of the best ai in a 4x game, i think!


(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 100
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/4/2011 11:51:04 PM   
Noble713


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/11/2011
From: Japan (US expat)
Status: offline 		Currently tied between Space Empires IV Gold and DW:ROTS. Considering DW's comparatively limited modding vis-a-vis SE4 I think this says a great deal about my satisfaction with the core gameplay.

I've played all the Space Empires games as far back as SE2 and SE5's interface, performance, graphics, and tactical combat damn near turned me off of the series. I had such high hopes for the 3D tactical combat. :(

< Message edited by Noble713 -- 2/4/2011 11:54:01 PM >

(in reply to Speedy2511)
Post #: 101
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/6/2011 4:52:40 AM   
Hellsbells

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I'd have to go with Birth of the Federation at the moment. Maybe DW will change my mind once I get my copy? 

(in reply to Noble713)
Post #: 102
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 3:17:30 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I think "yes" on DW, Hellsbells.

We are fortunate that DW/ROTS is on Matrix. It is more likely to continue to evolve in terms of patches and expansions. As always, I worry about cash flow and hope the devs can continue to profitably expand the line.

No where near as "finished," but Star Ruler gives a similar sense of depth, mystery and surprise that will keep us playing. There's just so much going on under the hood code-wise that it makes once great games like GalCiv2 entirely predictable and boring.

DW is cutting edge. SR continues to evolve. These two games are our greatest hope in terms of 4x nirvana, imo.

(in reply to Hellsbells)
Post #: 103
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 4:04:10 AM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline 		Favorite 4x MOO II.


I just can't seem to get into DW yet. I LOVE SOTS, and it took me "several" attempts at "getting it", but I finally figured it out, and the AI consistently beats the tar out of me.

X3, I just don't get it, but maybe someday, but I ain't getting any younger, and my patience to figure games out, seems to shorten with each passing year.


(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 104
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 4:08:15 AM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau


We are fortunate that DW/ROTS is on Matrix. It is more likely to continue to evolve in terms of patches and expansions. As always, I worry about cash flow and hope the devs can continue to profitably expand the line.

DW is cutting edge. SR continues to evolve. These two games are our greatest hope in terms of 4x nirvana, imo.



Don't count your chickens yet Rosseau. I thought that SSG Reach for the Stars would continue to evolve and be worked on and it got dropped like a hot potato.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 105
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 4:27:46 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		When it comes to my attention span, it too is shrinking like yours. I like my games to have relatively simple but powerful choices, so I spend more time doing stuff and less time scratching my head at the mechanics or clicking repetitiously.

(in reply to sabre1)
Post #: 106
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 5:09:10 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		So true. I used to love reading through those manuals. But WitE 400 pages was a chore now that I'm 54!

SOTS is another great one. I forgot about RftS. They didn't do much on that one, did they?

(in reply to Sabin Stargem)
Post #: 107
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 7:12:29 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		sabre1, it may not be suitable for you but for the age/attention issue I found that following let's play's on youtube for the game I'm interested in usually helps a lot
maybe could do some good for you as well

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Post #: 108
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/8/2011 7:20:12 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		I enjoy watching some Let's Play videos, especially DeceasedCrab's videos of La-Mulana and I Want to Be the Guy. I just like watching that poor, wretched soul being put through the grinder.

The Angry Videogame Nerd, Plinkett Reviews, Super Mario Bros Z, and Nostalgia Critic are also personal favorites of mine. Plinkett is simply great at dissecting movies, especially Star Wars Episodes I-III, but some people won't like his psycho-murderer persona. AVGN and Critic are basically tortured by videogames and movies respectively, while Super Mario Bros Z takes the best elements of Dragonball Z, and actually makes a serious attempt at making each character be true to their personalities. Most flash videos based on videogame characters take the cheap way by misrepresenting characters through excess swearing and bloodshed. Can't say enough good things about SMBZ.

< Message edited by Sabin Stargem -- 2/8/2011 7:25:21 AM >

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 109
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/13/2011 4:30:43 AM   
Solus

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: drillerman
I'll start: ASCENDANCY

For anyone who liked Ascendancy, and currently has an iPhone: http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/ascendancy/id412523782

(in reply to drillerman)
Post #: 110
RE: Most Favourite 4X Game Ever. - 2/13/2011 5:22:27 AM   
Magpius


Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		my favourite...






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Agent S -- 2/13/2011 5:23:26 AM >

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Post #: 111
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