Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: HPS new games

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: HPS new games Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: HPS new games - 3/11/2010 3:07:38 PM   
uncc


Posts: 448
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		ditto...and because of the new patch grabbed NC3: Guadalcanal as well

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once -- David Hume, Scottish philosopher (1711 - 1776)

(in reply to Grim.Reaper)
Post #: 61
RE: HPS new games - 3/11/2010 6:54:09 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)

I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.

(in reply to Grim.Reaper)
Post #: 62
RE: HPS new games - 3/11/2010 7:05:10 PM   
Grim.Reaper


Posts: 1355
Joined: 12/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)

I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.


I remember playing B1 Bomber as well....similar game type. Those were the days:)

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 63
RE: HPS new games - 3/12/2010 12:26:42 PM   
rahamy

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR
Maybe so,...but I find scenarios extremely boring after one play through. Most games dont make things random,..or random ENOUGH, that there is any real replayability in them. Now a campaign can be different each time depending on how you play............

So it doesnt really matter how good a game is,....if it doesnt have a campaign it just isnt worth it to me,.....unless there is a large mulitplayer community,....which I have yet to find in any decent war game.


Midway uses a new feature called "deployment boxes" which randomizes the placement of the forces each time the scenario is played. So a battle will be at least a little different each time you play it. And in a battle the size of Midway that could have some major implications.

There was a decent sized community for the original 3 naval games, and while I never participated, I heard many tales of big multi-players games going. Sometimes 6 or 7 players per side. I think the best games are usually 2 or 3 players a side as it reduces the chances for connectivity issues, etc.

The Jutland update is in the works now.

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 64
RE: HPS new games - 3/12/2010 12:28:26 PM   
rahamy

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		Oh, and the deployment box size is variable, depending on how big the scenario designer wants to make it...so it could be a few nautical miles, or it could be huge...

(in reply to rahamy)
Post #: 65
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 3:23:54 PM   
watchtower


Posts: 867
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Republic of Kilburn. London UK
Status: offline 		I have just ordered the Sealion game from NWS. When it gets here and I have had a weeks play i'll post a report in this thread. I have wanted someone to do a Sealion game ever since I started wargaming on a computer. My first was a squad leader type game that was for the Atari 800 and came with a gameboard and counters with the puter doing the calcs, wish I could remember what it was called. That and a D-Day game that SSI did - still hooked on wargames, gosh! I been sitting in front of a monitor killing pixel Germans for twenty five years!

_____________________________




(in reply to rahamy)
Post #: 66
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 4:08:08 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		This is about as far back as I can remember on an Apple IIe 1987

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_of_Fury

and Desert Commander on the NES 1989

Might have been something on Atari before that.

(in reply to watchtower)
Post #: 67
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 4:17:12 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		As usual, might as well save a few dollars using NWS. $10 right now over the HPS introductory price, eventually you save as much as $15 to $20 a game over the HPS price. I bought a lot of games directly from HPS until I figured out that I may as well save some money. Currently I own about 18 HPS titles. I think I will try the Naval games soon, as I haven't any of those to date. Might as well start with Midway and work back.

I do have fond memories of playing the orginal boxed Avalon Hill Jutland game. All those counters spread out on the floor, sometimes using two adjoining rooms.

_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to watchtower)
Post #: 68
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 8:15:02 PM   
Airborne82nd


Posts: 67
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: Evans City, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Wow...with these first impressions, hard to not pull the trigger and purchase. Keep them coming:) I do have a few questions if you have time.

1) With all the depth, is it tedious to play? Ton of micromanagement?
2) How long does an average game take to play? Can you save in the middle of a game?
3) Might be too early for this one, but does each scenario seem replayable with different outcomes or do you think they would playout roughly the same each time?
4) In the end, does it have a "fun" factor and seem like a game you just can't put down?

Thanks!



I've played a few scenarios now, and I like it. Some issues but overall, much more detailed than CAW. There is some micromanagement. For instance, you can give orders to each individual plane flight (2 or 3 planes) or double click on a plane which highlights all in the group. You can save anytime you want but I haven't experimented with that much.

Some issues I've run across. I've had planes tend to freeze in place--especially in the larger scenarios such as Pearl Harbor. There are many planes attacking and this may be an issue with my computer. I've also yet to use CAP successfully. Sometimes they attack enemy incoming strikes, but sometimes mine just fly around sightseeing. Someone earlier mentioned 'vectoring' them to intercept but I've yet to discover that one.

I've also found it rather hard to keep track of strikes and air units during carrier ops. I'm still learning so this may come easier in time. Overall, I'd recommend this game. I'm having fun with it.

_____________________________

"Land Soft, Kill Quiet"

(in reply to Grim.Reaper)
Post #: 69
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 8:20:01 PM   
Ashtur

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		To "vector" your cap.

(This assumes your CAP aircraft has the plane in question in LOS)

Click on the CAP unit you want to vector. Rightclick on the plane you want it to engage.

To vector it to an area without "siccing" it on a specific aircraft, rightclick on the area where you want that plane to go.

Hint: when handling airops like this, its very helpful to have "Ship/Aircraft Facing" checked ON in the View Menu :D

< Message edited by garymc -- 3/13/2010 9:01:37 PM >

(in reply to Airborne82nd)
Post #: 70
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 9:00:29 PM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		All positives from everyone so as was suggested I went to NWS and bought both at the discount price.


(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 71
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 9:02:45 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

To "vector" your cap.

(This assumes your CAP aircraft has the plain in question in LOS)

Click on the CAP unit you want to vector. Rightclick on the plane you want it to engage.

To vector it to an area without "siccing" it on a specific aircraft, rightclick on the area where you want that plane to go.

Hint: when handling airops like this, its very helpful to have "Ship/Aircraft Facing" checked ON in the View Menu :D


Some Feedback...

As simple as the surface action is (and has been in previous versions of NCx), air operations are far more complex. I'd strongly recommend some serious "fleshing-out" of the documentation regarding aircraft/mission/package handling, the aircraft dialogue, and the aircraft package dialogue, complete with examples and illustrations.

A question...

Is there a problem with the Saratoga? I ask because attempting to spot even one aircraft unit shuts down launches, regardless of the spotting values. Until that one unit gets spotted, no takeoffs will take place. However, Saratoga and Lexington did have a weird elevator configuration. Does that have anything to do with what I'm describing?

And a request...

PLEASE, start a forum someplace so that folks who are interested in this game can go and chat about it. Doing so will save you a lot of headaches, as you won't have to keep answering the same questions over and over again. A tech-support forum would be nice also. If there's already a Midway forum in existence, forgive me, but for goodness sake throw us a link!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 72
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 9:23:00 PM   
Ashtur

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Did you get my email yesterday? There is a general forum for HPS games at http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.com/forums/ though, I admit, it's not hugely busy much of the time.

Anyway, all carriers can only do one deck operation at a time. You can launch, land or spot at any given moment, but not a mixture of them.

As to the docs, those are done by JT himself, but I'll certainly pass that along :)

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 73
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 9:25:24 PM   
rahamy

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		You can go here for a forum: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tt.aspx?forumid=217

There are no "official" HPS forums. All support is handled via email (Support at hpssims.com) or via phone.

You can't launch any planes from any carrier when you are "spotting" other air craft. The elevator operations preclude take offs or landings.


(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 74
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 10:22:13 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		There are sections for HPS games at wargamer, gamesquad, and the blitz but I think there has been more action here at Matrix than all of those combined.

Maybe HPS should...

(in reply to rahamy)
Post #: 75
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 10:34:32 PM   
rahamy

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline 		Oh I wouldn't say that at all...Wargamer has had more traffice when you combine the HPS specific forums & the general gaming discussion area. The Blitz is also pretty active...GameSquad has been pretty quiet of late though...

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 76
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 10:51:52 PM   
dudalb_slith

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
Status: offline 		If HPS really has managed to do to a game that combines both surface and aerial combat on a tactical level sucessfullly, then we have hit the jackpot, and we can finally have a game on the Med in WW2.
BTW how much change in surface combat has their been from the first three? I am wondering how much of the upgrade will be applicable to Jutland and Tshshima, since those take place before airpower was a factor in Naval Combat.

(in reply to Grim.Reaper)
Post #: 77
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 10:53:23 PM   
dudalb_slith

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
Status: offline 		There is also a HPS section at the Consimworld forums where you can get a lot of help. Most of the desginers for HPS pop in from time to time.

(in reply to dudalb_slith)
Post #: 78
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 11:12:24 PM   
Ashtur

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		There's not a huge change in surface warfare introduced with Midway. There are two major changes, both torpedo related.

1) Ships now take Flotation Damage when struck with a torpedo.
2) When you fire torpedos, you have the right to fire a single torp, or fire by the full salvo. The great advantage of firing the single torp is that now you can set up your own "spread" to increase the chance to hit. (And, even a single torpedo can do a fair bit of damage. Up to and including sinking the ship)

(in reply to dudalb_slith)
Post #: 79
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 11:36:27 PM   
dudalb_slith

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
Status: offline 		Just downloaded and installed the new patch for Guadalcanal.


THose of you who had problems with the game should try it now. There are over a dozen new scenarios, and they pretty much cover every major Suface Action of the Pacific war from Java Sea to Leyte Gulf. It's like a whole new game.

(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 80
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 11:46:41 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

Did you get my email yesterday?


Nah, but that might be because of my control panel settings.

quote:

There is a general forum for HPS games at http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.com/forums/ though, I admit, it's not hugely busy much of the time.


Ah, the SDC forum. I had checked there for Midway specific game information, but the pickins' were mighty slim. This is a great little game, but there's stuff that happens with aircraft handling that just mystifies me. In particular, my inability to coax aircraft into the air is frustrating. The usual suspects:

1) The Carrier must be headed into the wind - Green Light
2) The Carrier can't be going too fast or too slow - Green Light
3) The Carrier can't be spotting aircraft - Green Light
4) The aircraft themselves have to be spotted and ready - Green Light

Anyway, sometimes it seems like that I have to do a "snake-dance" to get things moving. I try using LAUNCH from the aircraft dialogue, or by selecting the a/c then right clicking on the map, or allowing the aircraft to take off on their own (having been assigned to a mission, Patrol for instance). Some days the magic works, some days it doesn't.

quote:

Anyway, all carriers can only do one deck operation at a time. You can launch, land or spot at any given moment, but not a mixture of them.


I know that you guys researched the heck out of this, but I can swear that I've seen footage of aircraft emerging from below-deck on a hanger-lift while aircraft were taking off in front of it. Obviously, they couldn't use the forward elevator in this situation, but I'd think that the aft or amidships lift could be operational. I also think that I've seen video of the elevators in use while landings were taking place.

quote:

As to the docs, those are done by JT himself, but I'll certainly pass that along :)


This might be a case of y'all being too close to your own work. You're so familiar with the game that much of what you do with the interface is programmed into your neural-pathways! However, many of your customers will find aspects of the game a tangle to negotiate. Above, I mentioned that I sometimes have difficulty getting aircraft into the air. One way that I've found to straighten out a problem operation is to go into the PACKAGE DIALOGUE and DELETE the package (gulp), which brings me to the only pertinent text that I've been able to find pertaining to that interface, page 9 of the Getting Started Help File:

"You can review all the missions, or “packages” you have assigned by clicking the “Packages” button in the Aircraft Dialog and opening up the Package Dialog pictured above.

You gotta admit, Gary, that's a pretty skimpy treatment of that particular interface.

Anyway, enough with the grousing! The game is a lot of fun. I think that it would be really swell to play online, competitively or Co-op against the AI. I've been playing all afternoon, BTW, with Victory at Sea blaring in the background. I managed to sink the Hiryu in the tutorial, but the Saratoga was also sunk and all her aircraft were lost as well. I'll just have to keep at it.


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 81
RE: HPS new games - 3/13/2010 11:59:04 PM   
Ashtur

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		The info in the "Aircraft Missions" section in the main User Manual (F2 when in game) didn't help? There's a bit more info there.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 82
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 12:31:35 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)

I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.


"One of the oldest naval wargames ever made, Avalon Hill's Battle for Midway (a.k.a. Midway Campaign) is a very primitive ASCII wargame written entirely in BASIC that simulates the battle of Midway Island in World War II. "

It used * as I recall and letters like H E Y for Carriers. You can still play it using DOSBox
http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games/6174/Battle-for-Midway---Midway-Campaign/download.html

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 3/14/2010 12:32:08 AM >

(in reply to Scott_WAR)
Post #: 83
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 1:23:29 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

The info in the "Aircraft Missions" section in the main User Manual (F2 when in game) didn't help? There's a bit more info there.


Pages 31-34? I read it and it helps, but I'm still having trouble at times getting aircraft aloft. This may be because I'm misnaming the mission or package.

Question: Do groups of aircraft have to have a mission name, or can they just be left as generic patrol, search or strike missions, as they do by default if they're not named?

BTW, I don't believe that there's any information about using the PACKAGE DIALOGUE in the User's Manual at all.

_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 84
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 1:27:46 AM   
Ashtur

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		The Package Dialogue Info is in the "General Help" file (F1), page 21

You can leave them with a generic name, though it's helpful to name them for your own sake :)

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 85
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 1:32:28 AM   
Grim.Reaper


Posts: 1355
Joined: 12/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)

I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.


"One of the oldest naval wargames ever made, Avalon Hill's Battle for Midway (a.k.a. Midway Campaign) is a very primitive ASCII wargame written entirely in BASIC that simulates the battle of Midway Island in World War II. "

It used * as I recall and letters like H E Y for Carriers. You can still play it using DOSBox
http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games/6174/Battle-for-Midway---Midway-Campaign/download.html

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.

Yes, this was it!! I still remember that box art. I really liked the box art from all the SSI games, something I miss being able to see in the stores:(

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 86
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 2:23:08 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

The Package Dialogue Info is in the "General Help" file (F1), page 21

You can leave them with a generic name, though it's helpful to name them for your own sake :)


Ah, it's in yet another PDF file!

That's some vital info there, and answers yet more questions. For instance, I was wondering how to push a TBD strike off the deck BEFORE the SBD strike. The problem was that SBD appear further up the queue than the torpedo bombers. By default, the SBD were going to take off first, UNLESS, I waited to put the SBD strike together after the TBD had all launched. If I'm reading the in-game PDF correctly, I can force the torpedo-bomber strike ahead of the dive-bombers by selecting the VT-strike in the PACKAGES Dialogue and selecting ACTIVATE.

This is progress; this is good.


_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to Ashtur)
Post #: 87
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 2:25:46 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.


If you liked Carrier Force, I strongly suspect that you'll like HPS NC-Midway game also.



_____________________________

Government is the opiate of the masses.

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 88
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 11:58:09 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I really liked the box art from all the SSI games, something I miss being able to see in the stores:(


I agree and same here. I really miss the box art and all the PC packages in the gaming stores. Many times I bought a game because of the box art vs the actual games. Most of the time the game turned out well also though. Now the stores are crowded with kids console games and I have no interest in them anymore. I've become a chess & checkers type of player and like to drink a pint and wile away the hours strategizing my strategies.

Thanks for the headsup Prince as I do have my eye on the HPS Midway game. I'm just reading through the reviews and am of course mainly interested in the IA performance. Even back then in the early 80's that Midway game and Carrier Force had a pretty good IA and I got my butt pounded a few times by them.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 89
RE: HPS new games - 3/14/2010 7:30:42 PM   
Airborne82nd


Posts: 67
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: Evans City, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks to this forum and its members, I am really getting into Midway. CAP is working out much better and carrier ops are easier to understand. I've played multiple scenarios but find myself going back to the "Getting Started" one so I can 'train' myself.

The last mission was very fun. I sent out my search SBDs and had some CAP up. After they launched I turned back to due west and prepared my strikes and began getting them spotted. This is a time consuming process and I had all spotted except one or two TBD groups before my scouts picked up the enemy TF. I stopped spotting the last TBD groups and turned into the wind for launch. I had 2 scouting groups shadowing the enemy CV and my strike was launched. Once formed, they headed westward to (hopefully) glory. I had 2 F4F flights on escort which peeled off to intercept a Japanese scout plane shadowing my group. I quickly downed the Jake but it was too late. The enemy strikeforce had already been launched and was closing fast. My main attack force passed north of the incoming raid I launched my remaining F4Fs and a Buffalo flight for additional fleet protection. What was neat to watch was my escorting F4Fs that had left my raid to get the Jake, came back to my formation to continue escort duty. Unfortunately, they also got distracted by the enemy main strike and left to try and intercept. My cap did well and prevented all Kates from launching torpedoes. A few Vals made it through to cause light damage (88% remaining) to the Saratoga. Fortunately, I was able to continue flight ops.
My strike, now unescorted, made its way to the enemy TF dodging in and out of clouds. The enemy resistance was light and I inflicted light damage to the Hiryu the burning carrier unable to land or launch planes. The game ended in a draw with 19 planes lost by the US to 17 by the Japanese. Both carriers suffered light damage.

Neat stuff!! Thanks again for the help getting this going.

_____________________________

"Land Soft, Kill Quiet"

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 90
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: HPS new games Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.555