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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR

 
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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/18/2010 11:44:59 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) Armins PzC sweep south and moved back north to open Models path. Theres a railhead in Kalinin now. This getting close now...




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Post #: 571
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 12:54:01 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Jon, what's the OB screen look like now?

Mud is more likely starting October 15 and ending November 7. Jon, are you using non-random weather? Also starting April 1st and ending June 15 (but less so in May and June).

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Post #: 572
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 2:12:08 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Joel I'm using non-random weather...Heres the OOB for this turn. The Soviets are still huge foe. I need to eat up alot more forces...




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Post #: 573
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 5:11:47 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		One last (ss) this turn. Anyone like David Bowie, I do. This is under pressure. "Under pressure coming down on me"... The Soviets are hard pressed, this may go into the winter, but have the goods this time, and the tempo...Oh and 27th PzD is on the way from Germany... 3rd PzA will join the party soon...




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Post #: 574
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 12:13:32 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Hmmm... the Russian tank numbers just keep growing, despite the kicking they are receiving.   I guess that there are must be about 80 tank brigade equivalents out there (or some 25 Tank Corps equivalents), give or take the odd mechanised corps, plus close support tank and SP battalions attached to army HQ's.    (Please feel free to shout at me if these figures are completely bonkers!)

How many can we count in the front lines?   Maybe 15 brigade eqivalents inthe Boguchar region, another 10 around Rostov, perhaps another 5 or 6 around Tambov, and maybe 15 that we know of N, S and W of Moscow?     There'll  be some near Leningrad of course, maybe 2 Corps, and a couple of other brigades dotted about - say 10 in total.
  
My rough and ready Fremde Heeres Ost estimate (always really reliable intellignece as we know!!!) is that we have some 50 we can see or sense?  

So where are the 10 or so tank corps not yet committed?

Stuart

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Post #: 575
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 5:07:23 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I took a peek at Soviet production, this is without lend lease numbers. This will explain a lot...




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Post #: 576
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 5:09:20 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		This is German production without the Axis minors...




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Post #: 577
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 5:29:20 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(BAR) The Soviets hit Hoth hard and resupplied the troops at Stupino. That was where I wanted to get my railhead across... Things have gone from bad to worse now...




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Post #: 578
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 6:58:08 PM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Capacity on the production screen is a "per turn" number? I see an SdKfz-251/1 as a MG carrier, is this the APC as well? Is the APC modelled into the game or is the 251/1 only a moble steel pillbox?

< Message edited by Capt Cliff -- 5/19/2010 7:01:37 PM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 7:47:44 PM   
Beetle

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline 		PD - Thanks for the ss.  I see some of your difficulties around Moscow. However, I must admit that I was a "doubter" of your ability to get near to Moscow. Nice move.

I have a question on the production ss that you posted.  I believe I understand the columns containing the headings of capacity, damaged and built. I am unclear about the difference between the columns labeled pool and units.  Can you help?

Thanks 

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Post #: 580
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 8:35:16 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		At the difficulty level you are playing, are the combat abilities of the Soviets enhanced?

I want to know if the defence in the hexes would be equally powerful if I played the soviet side vs a human playing the Axis, or if more would be needed to achieve the same effect that you are facing.

/g

(in reply to Beetle)
Post #: 581
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/19/2010 9:06:51 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) OKH activated 3rd PzA, there iching for a fight. I had to pull alot of strings to make this happen. 27th PzD just arrived and 20th PzD has been rested this whole time and is ready to jump into battle...More pressure, but lack of time...It's not on my side...




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Post #: 582
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/21/2010 10:06:17 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
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From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Things have gone from bad to worse now...


I don't see it that way just yet!

You have a good pocket still, with two rail crossings as prizes.

There's an opportunity to drive a bit harder as well, going through that HQ stack, and you can re-set that pocket.

You also encircle Ryazan and drive North beyond it.

And 3rd PzA and Model link up through the lakes to the NW, with 2 fresh Pz Divs and a Mot Div!

What's the problem?

Stuart

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Post #: 583
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/21/2010 10:09:39 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		I'd agree. I looks quite promising, except for the upcoming rains. But maybe luck will also be on your side with the weather. Unless there are a lot of hidden AI units around Moscow, or the AI pulls formations up from the northern and southern sectors, I don't foresee anything stopping you from encircling Moscow in the next 8 weeks.

And I would say AI so far has done quite well, at least meaning well within the limits of using historic tactics of that precise time frame. It would be nice to be able to select at the beginning of a game whether AI will act accord with the historic evolution, or whether it will be smarter and use say 1944 tactics already rightaway. In that case I would have expected AI in this scenario to counterattack more often with its armor concentrations and force you to react instead of leaving the whole initiative to you.

< Message edited by janh -- 5/21/2010 10:13:10 PM >

(in reply to SGHunt)
Post #: 584
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/22/2010 10:10:22 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well guys, If haven't thrown in the towel... Theres just alot of things going on with timing and armor losses that don't add up to what I need...I been looking at this for two days thinking what to do next (plus a lack of time to play). I needed some dream power (I like to sleep over things)... However, I will still press this fight...

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Post #: 585
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 12:05:54 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) Harps's XXXXI PzC joined the party... Model pressed hard and moved a vital railhead forward. He needs to get a bridgehead over the Klyazma to his left to flank Moscow...




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Post #: 586
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 12:35:58 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) Armins corp has a new task, don't let Models supply line fail. The rail junction at Likhoslavl (yellow arrow) must be held... In the mean time he had to kick the crap out of something, another city bites the dust...




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Post #: 587
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 4:55:06 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hoth approaching Moscow within 40 miles from the south, and Model within 40 miles as well... This will be a huge pocket in the west of Moscow... see how AI will "think" about that. Very interesting! Increase OP-tempo!

< Message edited by janh -- 5/23/2010 4:56:16 AM >

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Post #: 588
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 6:21:30 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure their reserves are based there (Moscow), and the weather is about to change. I think with my postion I still have a chance at the goal... Remember I'm out produced 4 to 1 in armor, and the Americans joined the party now...I go down to 70% of production/replacements in 43 going east and lend lease really begins to kick in then also...I'll see how a winter offence holds out. They will have time to dig in over the mud months, and I won't blead my armor...Hum...

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Post #: 589
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 1:36:16 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Joel reckons three weeks to the mud, so Hoth has this turn and two more to come, tops.   I'm with Jan on tempo - this must be the time to throw caution to the wind.   Can you get Hoth over the Moskva this turn?!  It's only 20 miles!   If you don't pull it off now, I guess you never will.

Looking towards Ryazan, I've just noticed there's no rail link over the river there!   So where do the panzers go and remain in supply?   Or do you just take the plunge and strike North North West?  Time to roll the die?

If you manage to complete the encirclement, can the mud be to your advantage?   Then, assuming you have and can maintain supply to the front lines, it will be you that is digging in and the Russians that are starving!

Looking forward to next big screenie!

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 590
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 2:20:44 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		That railroad coming into Moscow from the Northeast might be the crucial one, as you can cut the others without too much trouble if you can keep the advance going.

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Post #: 591
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 3:20:40 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Yes, Comrade - I was thinking Model should insert Harpe's Pz Korps into that hex where the Klyazma bends away to the East and the rail line crosses the river  - leaving it to the infantry and the 3rd Pz Armee to fill in the gaps! 

This turn there is only a 1=1 division and a 0=0 unit in the way - next turn of course...

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 592
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 3:38:55 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(BAR) Tambov...Kleist was hit hard agian, 122 AFV losses. Not sure how many are permanent. It was a hit and run agian. 16th PzD was airdroped supplies at the cost of 92 transports. His PzA is still drawing attention in the center, but growing weaker...




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Post #: 593
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 3:43:19 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		don't you just love that hit and run ?

those can really hurt


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Post #: 594
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 4:06:52 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
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Status: offline 		Did the AI completely abandon Tambov and the strong position it had there?

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/23/2010 4:07:43 PM >

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Post #: 595
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 6:46:20 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Maybe time to go over to the defence here (where else is there to go?  And besides hasn't Kleist done his job?)   So occupy Tambov, dig in along the river and send your best, a reinforced Pz Korps, North by rail to help Hoth?  16th PzD into winter quarters at Lipetsk, to lick their wounds?    Everyone else shuffles up the line North, to free up a couple more divisions to provide flank defence for the push to encircle Moscow.

BTW, Jon - if my running commentary is a pain, just ask me to stop.   If it sounds like I'm trying to teach you anything you don't already know far better than me, please note that it's only my excitement!    I've never taken part in a forum like this before (I've lurked on plenty) and I don't really know if it's OK to post so much, or with so many ideas...
Stuart

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Post #: 596
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 8:46:01 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Stuart, personally I think it's quite nice to have a debate to accompany the AAR, as that's what makes AAR threads interesting: the mix of the AAR and comments by others.

Of course, this is Jon's thread, so he could ask the debate to stop, but he said earlier he's OK with talk about strategy/what's happening in the game.

BTW: As using first names now seems to be the standard: My name's Pieter.

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Post #: 597
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 9:20:45 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Thanks, Pieter.  

Now, I've been looking at it and I have maybe glimpsed Jon's intent with the Pz Corps East of Ryazan.  It would be possible to drive North along the West bank of the Pra, and then turn West and attempt to link up with Hoth as he crosses the Moskva using his 21-45 stack, these driving East over the river not North.   This would create a very large pocket, a huge hole in the front lines South East of Moscow and force the Russians to commit reserves.  Hoth's other Corps could continue to push directly NE towards the E of Moscow, after tidying up the pocket to their SW.   It would be bold (and risky) but may be the last push needed to crack the defence, especially with the pressure coming in from Model and 3rd Pz A.

It would require the armies further South to commit to holding the flank lines, even as far as the Pra river line North of the Oka, and thus halting the Kleist offensive and shuffling North, as I suggested before.   I also believe the Pz Korps that could then be detached from Kleist's army could be deployed overland, just behind the front line, rather than by train, to exploit the thrust East of Ryazan in a couple of turns.   (Or more likley help to fight off the inevitable massive counter attack!)

Jon, what do you think?
Stuart


< Message edited by von Jaeger -- 5/23/2010 9:22:40 PM >

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Post #: 598
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 9:47:00 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Guys as I've said before this is a S&T sight. So feel free to comment.... Got you guys thinking and wishing for this release...This is really a tough turn, so much hangs on what I do...

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Post #: 599
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 5/23/2010 10:28:45 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Hey, sleep on it - but do reflect on my last post.   I think it could work, depending on whether there is light resistance North of Ryazan and along the Pra!   Do you have any air recon left?  

Oh, and good luck and good hunting!
S

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