RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A)

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RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/23/2010 11:37:31 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

There is a simple fact, that planes and even pilots are ultimately expendable (well, I would like KB pilots not to be expendable, but the sad truth is, they are going to be expended sooner or later). Flight decks? Irreplaceable. Squadrons that can go down with the ships are not theoretically irreplaceable, but will take a lot of time and PPs to rebuild. Add the fact, that strategically I can win here by mission-killing Allied fleet, even if outright sinkings will be few, and the course of action becomes clearer. Moreover, by using full speed to get into a closer positon, I'll both risk my carriers ending who knows where, AND will greatly increase the chance that even moderately damaged ships will go down, and the course of action becomes obvious. And the chance of my strike being weaker is only about 50%.

What I fear is not LBA, but a coordinated response from Allied carriers. SBDs are real killers and I don't want to deal with both them and everything else Allies can bring to the table as well. Note, that now is the last time until 1943 when I have an edge in carrier strike aicraft range. I want to use that.

My greaterst killers, though, are Kates. And these will fly to 7 hexes with torps just fine. Only Vals will switch to 2x60kg. In this particular situation a raid exchange at 7 hexes might even be beneficient to me even discounting the strategic situation.

Good note on LRCAP, though. He might have Lightnings on Ceilon, but everything else is out of range.

Oh... and I'm totally forgot about subs. Almost all of them can get to the predicted position of the Allied carriers at normal speed. I have big hopes for them. However lousy shots they are, cripples and shattered TFs should be easy enough prey to them. If I'm lucky, they'll even sink something before the air attack exchange.

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/24/2010 8:31:00 PM >

(in reply to beppi)

Post #: 301

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 4:19:25 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Some of the June 24th events probably will remain inexplicable to me, until we finish the game and I read Yubari's AAR, but the essence of this day can be summarized in two words:

Decisive VICTORY!

The detailed description will follow when I have the time.

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 302

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 6:40:15 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

June 24: The Shattered Shield

Act 1: The Surprise At Morning

At daybreak of June 24, weather and sea conditions around the Japanese carrier fleet are excellent. CS Chiyoda, battleships and cruisers launch almost a half-hundred of Jakes without problems. And very soon reports start flowing from pilots of the searchplanes - massive columns of Allied ships, too big to properly count, multiple flattops. Yet not in the position, where they were expected (outlined on the map below) - far closer, and moving on an intersecting course.

At the same time, several Allied searchplanes are spotted near the position of Japanese ships. A number of them is shot down or chased away, but it is clear, that Allies are now aware of the immense danger they just got into. Regardless, Admiral Nagumo, acting as overall commander of the Mobile Fleet from the bridge of Yamato, orders a full strike. As mechanics on Japanese carriers prepared for just this all night, and the planes are already spotted on the decks, the order is executed smoothly and the most powerful strike wave in the history of warfare takes off in no time.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 303

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 6:56:07 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Act 2: Into the Storm

The Allied force is now under the front of oncoming storm, yet, despite heavy clouds, the armada of this size is hard to miss. Meanwhile, even though the gigantic Japanese strike is easily visible on the radarss bad weather seems to have greatly inhibited the coordination of Allied CAP. Either that, or Allied crews were completely unprepared for battle this day. Few fighters in the air are swamped by the streams of Zeros and only a handful of attack planes gets shot down before getting into position. Steadily worsening weather and unprecedentally intense flak cause many pilots to miss or avoid the core of the Allied battle orders and attack whatever ships they can. Yet with almost 400 bombers in the air, inevitably a number of them homes on Allied carriers. The British carrier squadron maneuvers expertly, turning into torpedo strikes and relying on armored decks for protection against divebombers, yet the found American TF is quickly reduced to wrecks, shattered by multiple internal explosions.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Koggala at 31,55
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 160 NM (!), estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 68 minutes (!!! lack of CAP is just unbelievable in the light of this)
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 128
B5N2 Kate x 212
D3A1 Val x 169

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 4
Sea Hurricane Ib x 5
Martlet II x 35
F2A-3 Buffalo x 16
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 12 destroyed, 25 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 38 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 6 destroyed
F2A-3 Buffalo: 3 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Formidable
CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Exeter
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CA Northampton, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CL Hobart, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CLAA Van Heemskerck, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Nashville, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA Louisville, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Patterson
DD Mugford, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Ceres
DD Bulmer

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.) (??? I wonder what the heck they were supposed to be CAPping)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 61 minutes
VF-3 with F4F-3 Wildcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(9 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 57 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(9 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes
VMF-221 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(16 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 14 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 63 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
No.800 Sqn FAA with Fulmar II (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Saratoga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Yorktown
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Mugford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Louisville
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Indomitable
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Ralph Talbot

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/24/2010 7:12:00 PM >

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 304

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 7:11:09 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Act 3: Allied Riposte

Groups of incoming Allied bombers are spotted fairly close to the fleet and although clear sky does not allow them to hide from alert Zeros, escorting fighters defend their charges valiantly. 61 strike plane out of 67 breaks through to the Nagumo's light carriers, positioned ahead of KB proper.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Koggala at 31,58
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 134
F1M2 Pete x 3

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 7
Fulmar II x 5
Sea Hurricane Ib x 8
Swordfish I x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 13
F4F-4 Wildcat x 28
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 3
SBD-2 Dauntless x 6
SBD-3 Dauntless x 29
TBD-1 Devastator x 12
TBF-1 Avenger x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Sea Hurricane Ib: 3 destroyed
Swordfish I: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 6 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Taiyo
CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 1
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hiyo, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Nisshin, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb (?? I wonder if they were on ASW duty)
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
3 x Swordfish I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
3 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
3 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
3 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
Chitose Ku S-1 Det with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
Tainan Ku S-1 Det A with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Ashigara-2 with F1M2 Pete (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Shoho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Nisshin

Nisshin takes the worst blow from the new, previously unseen American bombers, that bomb her from level flight with great accuracy. The four bomb hits spread across her lenght and soon she is afire from bow to stern, clearly beyond saving. Crew abandons the ship before afternoon. A huge fire breaks out on Shoho after two large bomb hits and continues to burn into the night. Zuiho falls out of combat order and is incapable of continuing flight operations after being hit by a bomb and a torpedo, but reports fires and flooding under control by evening.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/24/2010 7:13:43 PM >

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 305

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 7:25:21 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Well, I have said it before. AE is different from WITP and the Allied player is courting disaster of this sort by exposing his carriers anytime in 1942 to the might of KB. The quality of Allied aircraft (F4F vs zero), lack of effective TBDs, pitiful replacment rate and relative lack of punch of Allied AA weigh just too much in favor of KB. You planned and pulled off a great attack and deserve much credit, but Yubari should have never put himself in this position.

My first rule as the Allied player is that my carriers never move into an area where I know KB can be and if I don't know where KB is, I don't ever think of commiting my carriers to an operation. Now that you have neutralized his carriers for the next year, you are free to embark on multiple adventures and can even risk splitting KB for multiple operations with little risk. As long as the Alllied carrier force is intact this option does not exsist for Japan.

It is not the end of the world for Yubari if he can get away with his damaged carriers. He has only lost two so far. But he is in trouble.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 11/24/2010 7:29:27 PM >

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

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(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 306

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 7:30:34 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Act 4: Decapitating Blow

Japanese prepare the afternoon strike with all due haste, despite losses and the raging storm that now covers the position of the Allied fleet. Surviving planes from Shoho, Zuiho and Nisshin land on large carriers and dozens are shoved overboard to free space for those still in the air. Yet the attack proceeds without delay or miscoordination, helped by short distance to the Allied fleet:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Koggala at 31,55
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid detected at 160 NM (! Allied radar is sure reliable), estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 68 minutes

Japanese aircraft (the number of Kates dropped most of all, due to three light carriers being knocked out)
A6M2 Zero x 88
B5N2 Kate x 137
D3A1 Val x 146

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 2
Sea Hurricane Ib x 2
Martlet II x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 16 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 49 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Formidable, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Vincennes, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Craven
DD Perkins, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Glasgow
DD Porter
DD Bulmer
CA Exeter, Bomb hits 1
DD Fanning, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Hobart
DD Conyngham, Bomb hits 1, on fire

CAP engaged:
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 62 minutes
VF-3 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 64 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
No.800 Sqn FAA with Fulmar II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Vincennes
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Lexington
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Indomitable
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Benham
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Perkins (A ton of planes attacked those damn destroyers. More than Lexington, in fact.)

Allies attacked in the afternoon too, but half of the raid got butchered and the rest hit nothing.

Plane Tally

The great majority of planes lost to ops are those who had nowhere to land. I belive Allied planes from damaged carriers were redirected to Ceilon, thus Allied ops losses are slim. While Zeros dominated air combat thanks to the combination of numbers, technical superiority and good pilots, you can see, that Allied flak did much to bridge the gap in losses in the air. My pilot losses are 67 KIA and 8 MIA - nothing if not cheap for the result achieved.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/24/2010 7:31:15 PM >

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 307

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 7:45:04 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Crsutton, this battle had a potential to be a mutually destructive bloodbath, or even an Allied victory. Allied first strike went in nearly unmolested, and both of mine were detected half the ocean away. Weather also was entirely in Allies' favor. Unfortunately for Allies, not only they went into battle without both Enterprise and, it seems, Hornet (VF-8 was nowhere in sight), but their orders for the day seemed to be not of the sort one gives when one expects battle. Otherwise I can't explain their weakness in the air.

Both this, if this is so, and allowing the fleet to be split, were grave mistakes, above and beyond just risking battle. Yubari should have expected a KB attack at any time, given that the entire or nearly entire Allied carrier strength revealed itself at the beginning of June, and that his carriers were spotted the day before.

Looks like he didn't, and his fleet got crushed in the reverse Midway sort of battle. While certainly it isn't impossible to achieve a decisive carrier victory over Japanese in 1942 in AE (several people did), allowing your carriers to operate where the opponent can see them, and when your fleet is understrength, is not the way to do it. Maybe he believed that I wouldn't seek an open ocean battle without Akagi and Junyo. He should have done the plane numbers math, then.

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/24/2010 7:51:32 PM >

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 308

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 8:07:44 PM

FatR

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

Aftermath

Summing up damage to the Allied fleet:

Allied Ships
CV Formidable, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Northampton, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CA Louisville, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA Vincennes, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CL Nashville, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA Exeter, Bomb hits 1
CL Hobart, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CLAA Van Heemskerck, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Perkins, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Mugford, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fanning, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Conyngham, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Ship VPs, which are usually the most accurate intelligence indicator of enemy losses, went up by 922 this turn. This corresponds to outright loss of Saratoga, Yorktown, all cruisers said sunk in the reports and a pair of DDs. The numbers might be a bit muddled by other combats on 24th, including attacks on subs, and a not-very-succesful interception of an Allied convoy near Alaska by AMCs.

Of course, I'll try to eliminate the cripples as well.

Damage to the Japanese fleet (Yamashiro was torpedoed by a sub during a bombardment run against Lahaina this day):

Well, and Nisshin sank.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FatR -- 11/25/2010 12:09:12 AM >

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 309

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 8:49:10 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

Crsutton, this battle had a potential to be a mutually destructive bloodbath, or even an Allied victory. Allied first strike went in nearly unmolested, and both of mine were detected half the ocean away. Weather also was entirely in Allies' favor. Unfortunately for Allies, not only they went into battle without both Enterprise and, it seems, Hornet (VF-8 was nowhere in sight), but their orders for the day seemed to be not of the sort one gives when one expects battle. Otherwise I can't explain their weakness in the air.

Both this, if this is so, and allowing the fleet to be split, were grave mistakes, above and beyond just risking battle. Yubari should have expected a KB attack at any time, given that the entire or nearly entire Allied carrier strength revealed itself at the beginning of June, and that his carriers were spotted the day before.

Looks like he didn't, and his fleet got crushed in the reverse Midway sort of battle. While certainly it isn't impossible to achieve a decisive carrier victory over Japanese in 1942 in AE (several people did), allowing your carriers to operate where the opponent can see them, and when your fleet is understrength, is not the way to do it. Maybe he believed that I wouldn't seek an open ocean battle without Akagi and Junyo. He should have done the plane numbers math, then.

Yes you are right about the potential for a bloodbath and I have seen a few early fights go the Allied way. However, as Japan you must play the odds and take the risk when the odds favor you. Otherwise you you just sit and wait the inevitable. The odds favored you for all the reasons you mention plus a little good luck as well....Given the odds and your overall superiorty at the point of battle, the results are just about in line with what they should be.

As an Allied player, I feel for Yubari. However, he set himself up for this one. I am not pounding him for his mistake. We all have been there and regretted it afterwards. He is by no means defeated. It is just going to be a long hard war for him, and he will have to accept the long term effects of this battle (Adaman Islands) and face the music while developing a new plan.

In my last campaign of WITP, I lost five of my six carriers in a July battle over Lunga without scoring one single hit on a Japanese ship. I wanted to cry.

I tried to resign and my opponent talked me out of it. I am grateful for that as I went on to pull out a win.

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Post #: 310

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 8:51:55 PM

janh

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Wow, congratulations!� No risk, no fun -- but this one is clearly good news for the Empire.� Seems the weather over the carriers aided your surprise attack, and luck might have also taken its toll on Yubari's ships.� Sturdy old British CV!�
The best thing about the victory is: KB is undisturbed!� Air losses, but plattforms intact.� Now the question is what Yubari brings up to save the three British and two American surviving CVs.� Suppose now is the best time to risk KB against LBA?

Whether and how much of this fault is Yubari's, how much was just roll of the dice and what went wrong will be hard to elucidate.� Despite the present superiority of KB and its air frames over the allied counterparts in 42, this operation was risky and so close to Ceylon and far from Japanese bases (even Adamans in the middle!), it could all have ended badly.� Possibly Yubari was too attached to covering Enterprise, plus might not have expected such a bold and aggressive strike so close to his LBA.
But generally I agree with crsutton, Yubari made a major major mistake with operating his CV without proper recon and control of the AO -- without knowing where KB operated, he should have used much more caution.� I think this proves again the utmost importance of recon/intel, which enable the one who masters it to exercise initiative and design operations, and the one who doesn't, is subject to reaction, moment of surprise, and without control over his own fate.� Seems like all these old principles now perfectly apply to AE, which is really great! �

< Message edited by janh -- 11/25/2010 9:42:54 AM >

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Post #: 311

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 9:10:03 PM

janh

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Wow, congratulations! No risk, no fun -- but this one is clearly good news for the Empire. Seems the weather over the carriers aided your surprise attack, and luck might have also taken its toll on Yubari's ships. Sturdy old British CV!
The best thing about the victory is: KB is undisturbed! Air losses, but plattforms intact. Now the question is what Yubari brings up to save the three British and two American surviving CVs. Suppose now is the best time to risk KB against LBA?

Whether and how much of this fault is Yubari's, how much was just roll of the dice and what went wrong will be hard to elucidate. Despite the present superiority of KB and its air frames over the allied counterparts in 42, this operation was risky and so close to Ceylon and far from Japanese bases (even Adamans in the middle!), it could all have ended badly. Possibly Yubari was too attached to covering Enterprise, plus might not have expected such a bold and aggressive strike so close to his LBA.
But generally I agree with crsutton, Yubari made a major major mistake with operation his CV without proper recon and control of the AO -- without knowing where KB operated, he should have used much more caution. I think this proves again the utmost importance of recon/intel, which enable the one who masters it to exercise initiative and design operations, and the one who doesn't, is subject to reaction, moment of surprise, and without control over his own fate. Seems like all these old principles now perfectly apply to AE, which is really great!

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 312

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 9:11:46 PM

beppi

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You should carefuly chase and finish off the rest of the Carriers. Only a sunk Carrier is a write off. Now you can roam at least for a year (with your replacement carriers) quite free and in a year even the most damaged carrier will be repaired. So kill them.

If you want to move your damaged CVLs home then group them with the remaining CVL and CVE and send them home. Dont let the damaged CVL unguarded. But chase him an kill off some more carriers. I my AAR at the time i took over my enemy just sank 2 CVs (3rd was scuttled right away) but managed to chase me so hard that he killed two more carriers.

As the remaining US Carrier planes diverted to Ceylon stay away from it (at least the normal combat range of SBD and TBs) but usually the routine sends the plane to the nearest base which would be Koggala. Which size is it ? If it is small he first neds to move his DBs,Fighters and Tbs to Trico and Colombo so stay away from there as long as your Carrier Squads are not full replenished (you could try a raid in the future). So you can move a little bit north to stay out of normal range, keep some CAP over your remaining carriers and hit him again. If it does not go well you just loose planes and pilots. That hurts but they can be retrained and killing some more carriers might be worth it.

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Post #: 313

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/24/2010 9:54:27 PM

FatR

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Koggala is still size 1, so it should be incapable of sending strikes.

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Post #: 314

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/25/2010 7:27:35 PM

vicberg

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He lost this battle before it started. It's a terrible axis of attack. The adamans are simply too far away from Ceylon. And once committed, he had to use his carriers to prevent a complete loss of his land units. It might be successful in 43 or 44 with overwhelming sea power, but no way in 42. I'd never do it as the allies even with the air support. It requires too much allied committment and limits options. The loss of his carriers is an explanation point.

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Post #: 315

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/26/2010 7:26:37 AM

Cribtop

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Wow, BANZAI!!!!

Very late and very tired after reading this whole AAR tonight, but congrats on pursuing a bold strategy in the wider war and major congrats for a decisive CV victory. If you can finish the cripples and over time bag the four crack Allied divisions on Andaman, this will really extend the life expectancy of your Empire.

Also wanted to say that your initial strategic analysis was fascinating to me - I learned a lot.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/26/2010 7:27:36 AM >

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Post #: 316

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/26/2010 4:56:57 PM

FatR

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I must admit, the Andamans gambit might have been reasonably successful at attriting Japanese in the long term, had Yubari simply restricted himself to using British carriers (and expendable convoys for landing at southern islands and resupply). Once Allies have garrizoned and fortified something with their real troops, evicting them is hard and costly, as the Hawaian campaign demonsrated so far. And Yubari is better air tactician than me, so doubly costly. Also, I had an unforgivable mind bug, thinking there is only two British carriers at the moment, instead of three, and looking at their immense survivability demonstrated in the Battle of Ceilon, they had a good chance against micro-KB I had in the region initially. I wouldn't have moved decisively with all my fleet until Hawaii are mostly secured by fall of Lahaina, and maybe not even then. But once USN main body showed up, the real front for the rest 1942 became obvious. After that - and particularly after using USN carrier force at Andamans again, Yubari should have operated on the assumption that the full Japanese carrier strength might appear before his forces at any time. And looks like he didn't.

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Post #: 317

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/26/2010 7:13:57 PM

ny59giants

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Stanislav,
I warned Yubari that you may be coming up from the south weeks ago (just after his first landing) and that he should prepare accordingly (see his AAR after this game is done). He should have build up the southern most base in Ceylon and used the 4e bombers with greatest range on naval search along with hugging the coastline a little more before heading over to Andaman Islands with shipping.

In AE it is not the question of taking certain bases, but can you support them in the weeks to come after the initial dust settles and your can react in force.

Michael

(in reply to FatR)

Post #: 318

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/27/2010 8:05:34 PM

vicberg

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Michael is right on the money. I think he was overconfident in his proximity to Ceylon. Doesn't look like he had any naval search going on, and probably not even in the carrier forces. Not to mention, that there should have been a few SCTFs to support his operation. There may be, but I haven't seen any in the recent posts. My guess, and I haven't been reading his AAR, is that he assumed you would keep the KB close to PH and out of sight. He went on the gamble of that you wouldn't move until Lahaina. This was probably a complete surprise.

Now you can bomb his supply out of existence in the adamans and in 6 months, you will be attacking remnents.

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Post #: 319

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 11/29/2010 5:04:17 PM

cookie monster

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I knew the Allied position would end in tears.

Congratulations on your victory.

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Post #: 320

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/2/2010 8:38:39 PM

FatR

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Yubari finally sent the next turn, and the second day of the Battle of Ceilon was not pretty for Allies as well. I'll post highlights later, but I got some lucky surface combat rolls, and it seems that the only Allied CV, save for Wasp, that wasn't in the theatre, that might possibly survive the massacre, is Hornet, which appeared today. On Japanese side, Shoho failed to contain the fires and sank. I do sincerely hope this defeat will not cause Geoff (Yubari) to give up.

< Message edited by FatR -- 12/2/2010 9:30:27 PM >

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RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/2/2010 9:18:56 PM

Cribtop

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A Glorious victory. Did you shoot up the surviving CVs with SCTFs a la Leyte Gulf? If so, you don't see that every day!

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Post #: 322

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 1:03:59 AM

FatR

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June 25: And Death to the Cripples...

I'll just repost the report, excising insignificant action and events on other fronts (most significantly continued devastation of Port Moresby by unstoppable B-17s).

Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 31,55, Range 2,000 Yards (My first lucky shot of the night. The SCTF was supposed to lead KBs around, and was in the hex next to them yesterday, therefore the strange size).
Japanese Ships
CA Mogami
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships (Both Allied carriers seemed to be in non-critical condition - amazing, considering the punishment they took yesterday. Of course, this was quicky fixed...)
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 3
CV Illustrious, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Dorsetshire
CA Exeter, Shell hits 1
CL Hobart
CL Ceres
CL Glasgow
DD Patterson
DD Craven
DD Porter
DD Bulmer

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms with 89% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 89% moonlight: 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji crosses the 'T'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 31,55, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami
DD Hagikaze

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 1, on fire
CV Illustrious, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Bulmer

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms with 89% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 89% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji crosses the 'T'
CV Illustrious sunk by CA Mogami at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Hagikaze engages CV Indomitable at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
DD Hagikaze engages CV Indomitable at 5,000 yards
DD Hagikaze engages CV Indomitable at 5,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 32,52, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships (Detachment from KB escorts.)
BB Kongo
BB Hiei, Shell hits 2
DD Amatsukaze
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 3
DD Asagiri
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
CA Chester, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Shell hits 3
CL Caledon, Shell hits 2
DD Mustin, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Arunta
DD Isaac Sweers
DD La Triomphant, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms with 89% moonlight
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 32,52, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 2
BB Hiei
DD Amatsukaze
DD Ikazuchi
DD Asagiri
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
CA Chester, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Isaac Sweers, Shell hits 20, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 31,55, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei
DD Amatsukaze
DD Ikazuchi
DD Asagiri
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
CV Formidable, Shell hits 26, and is sunk
DD Conyngham, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 31,55, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei
DD Amatsukaze
DD Ikazuchi
DD Asagiri
DD Ushio, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Bulmer, Shell hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Koggala at 31,55, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1
DD Hagikaze

Allied Ships
DD Perkins, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Trincomalee at 32,49
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 68 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 39
B5N2 Kate x 20
D3A1 Val x 67

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 4
P-39D Airacobra x 11
F4F-3 Wildcat x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed (Escorts took a serious beating this time. But managed to get the strike through.)
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 23 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage (Here you are! "Heavy fires, heavy damage" usually spell doom, but the TF was in two hexes from Trinkomalee, and VF-8 still appeared to be in the air late in the day.)
BB Royal Sovereign
DD Norman
CL Raleigh
CA Indianapolis, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Resolution, Bomb hits 1
DD Henley
DD Dale
DD Hatfield
CL Leander
DD Mahan, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
BB Ramillies, Bomb hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Trincomalee at 33,50
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
B5N2 Kate x 15
D3A1 Val x 13

Allied aircraft
Hurricane I Trop x 2
Hurricane IIc Trop x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 1
P-400 Airacobra x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, on fire (I believe Enterprise was limping to Colombo as I predicted before the battle, but miraculously not spotted yesterday. Which actually played into my hand.)
CA Minneapolis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Koggala at 32,54 (Allies launched a ton of small raids. This raid was the only one to get through and inflict damage.)
Weather in hex: Light cloud
Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
SBD-2 Dauntless x 2
SBD-3 Dauntless x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Hagikaze

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Mogami

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Trincomalee at 33,50
Weather in hex: Light cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 47
B5N2 Kate x 95
D3A1 Val x 81

Allied aircraft
Hurricane I Trop x 1
Hurricane IIc Trop x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 1
P-400 Airacobra x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 8 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk (Gotta catch them all.)
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Litchfield
DD Clark, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Cassin
DD Parrott

Many small groups of Japanese bombers broke off from the main raids, went in unexcorted and were slaughtered. I omitted their sad records.

My subs launched many attacks on the way to Trincomalee, but sank only one crippled DD and one xAK.

< Message edited by FatR -- 12/3/2010 1:05:22 AM >

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 323

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 1:23:38 AM

FatR

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Headcount.

Lexington was not spotted anywhere this turn. I strongly believe she's a goner. But miracles can happen. It's theorerically possible that she had low flotation/engine damage and rushed to safety. However, 101 USN carrier plane was destroyed on ground this turn. So if she survived, then Hornet must have bought the farm.

Therefore, Allied losses in the battle of Ceilon, look like this:

CV: 7 + 1 probable
CA: 4 + 2 probables
CL: 1
CLAA: 1
DD: 8 + 2 probables
Aircraft: approximately 400, almost half of them on ground.

Japanese losses:
CVL: 2 + 1 crippled.
CA: 1 moderately damaged
Aircraft: approximately 240, a bit hard to tell, with the planes of the same types getting destroyed on New Guinea.

Conclusion: My initial strategic goal #3 (devastate the Allied fleet in 1942) can be considered achieved, even if, admittedly, in large part through a stroke of luck and my opponent's mistake. Can't really say that luck is not on my side anymore, particularly after today's extremely successful surface action.

< Message edited by FatR -- 12/3/2010 1:25:43 AM >

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Post #: 324

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 2:11:35 AM

krupp_88mm

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< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 12/3/2010 2:23:18 AM >

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Post #: 325

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 2:35:25 AM

CapAndGown

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A screen shot would be useful here.

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Post #: 326

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 2:53:13 AM

Cribtop

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I personally think Krupp's screenie says it all!

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Post #: 327

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 3:28:10 AM

krupp_88mm

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so presumably all allied carriers are dead? except maybe one?, so you can split up KB into pairs and roam the oceans unmolested with scores of taskforces?

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Post #: 328

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 10:27:44 AM

FatR

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Here's a screenshot of reported losses in the Battle of Ceilon and action that preceded it. Wasp is reported sunk instead of Hornet, strange.

I don't intend to focus on carrier raiding, even with Allied carriers practically gone. Yubari probably will just avoid big, fat convoys from now on. I'll do more surface raiding, though. And as 2/5th of my carrier aviation perished in battle and even planes can't be replaced immediately, I'm in no position to contest concentrated Allied LBA with no support from my own. Instead, I'll concentrate on solidifying my perimeter, mostly by retaking Andamans, with secondary operations in the Pacific, probably including taking of Line Islands and further advance in Aleutians (ideally seizing the entire chain).

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FatR -- 12/3/2010 10:28:55 AM >

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Post #: 329

RE: Ocean of Blood. FatR (J) vs. yubari (A) - no yubari... - 12/3/2010 1:24:29 PM

bigbaba

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OMG..one word: Owned.

thats one of the best traps and carrier battles the japanese can hope for. now you got "free hand" for at least 1.5 years to do what you want. it was not well played out by your opponent (if a allied player risks a carrier battle so early in the game, then under cover of heavy LBA what means much closer to ceylon!) but this does not harm your brilliant preformance.

< Message edited by bigbaba -- 12/3/2010 1:28:26 PM >

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