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RE: AI - 6/10/2010 1:47:16 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: torpoint

Perhaps if people pushed the A1 revamp, rather than plugging PBEM, then it may be conceivable that Matrix may put more emphasis in improving the A1 sooner than 1-2 years?


Actually, a rebuilt and improved AI is on the Matrix drawing boards... based on Jason's previous posts? IMO, it is not more CS players desiring an improved AI that will "accelerate" development... it is more a question of Matrix bandwidth and resource constrains that is gating factor here.

Hopefully... I did not step over the "lines" with this post?

< Message edited by mwest -- 6/10/2010 1:49:12 PM >

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to torpoint)
Post #: 31
RE: AI - 6/10/2010 9:03:38 PM   
torpoint

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		Volunteer Forum Police?
Shut down and stifle Mike's enthusiasm for pbem,
bad form?
Crikey RR! If you wanna venture into forum etiquette perhaps you should understand that hijacking someone's thread about the A1 with PBEM fanfares ain't particularly correct attitude either?
If Mike wants to post a thread about the virtues of PBEM fine with me!

I didn't say the large scenarios were to big to play, they were great fun and results reached as well.
What's the scale btw?

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 32
RE: AI - 6/10/2010 11:30:01 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		I comment on them as I see them.
I do not believe that Mike set out, took over this thread.

I do believe you think you are the "forum policeman". You can read all other threads and let us know how good or bad they are?

The scale is what is printed in the manual and in all the tables. Find it yourself and you may learn something along the way?

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to torpoint)
Post #: 33
RE: AI - 6/11/2010 1:34:53 AM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline 		The irony of this whole "blow-up"... is that I agree with every poster who states the AI needs to be improved!

Why disagree with something that is so obvious... and fundamental to a better JTCS?

So... after 33 posts... we are all in agreement here?

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 34
RE: AI - 6/11/2010 6:14:39 AM   
torpoint

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		Fair enough Mike, no blow-up, only after the ' JTCS magistrate' jumped in

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 35
RE: AI - 6/12/2010 4:13:02 PM   
Dan K


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline 		Well, it's Matrix's game. They'll do with it as they see best as a company, no matter who suggests what. It's not likely people will buy more than one copy, some people who "own" it didn't even do that.
Maybe they will turn it in to a first person shooter.

(in reply to torpoint)
Post #: 36
RE: AI - 6/12/2010 9:39:32 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		LOL! Dan.
Captain obvious.

Maybe they can stop selling it?
Maybe they can turn it into a wego?
Maybe they can do Mythical Campaigns and we can have dragons and wizards?

I think I owned many multiple disks when it was Talonsoft, Take2, and the original Matrix. Version 1.04 and the continuous upgrades create an environment where I do not want to own more than the one copy.

RR




_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Dan K)
Post #: 37
RE: AI - 6/12/2010 9:56:59 PM   
Dan K


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline 		:-) I've got whole box of useless and expensive Talonsoft discs. Some of those, I did buy more than one copy. In the end, they didn't even give you a cd case.

PBEM is very cool, with a dedicated advisary. But, the guy that wants to sit and play a good game against the pc should get that also, for his $60 bucks or what ever it's selling for now.

But, according to Matrix, if one wants the THE BEST AI EVER, fork out $80 for Battles From the Bulge ;-)

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 38
RE: AI - 6/13/2010 3:08:45 PM   
MrRoadrunner


Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		I purchased many disks for myself and my friends.
I never got a disk without a CD case. From any of the companies that had the rights to sell the game.
I bought three or four of The Blitz expansion disks for myself and friends. They came in cases also.

Maybe the companies did not like you?

$60? Not.

Since I do not want an exciting experience against the AI will not be shelling out $80 for BftB.
If Jason and the crew of dedicated Matrix Tiller CS developers want to make the AI better I am all for it. I'm not for tinkering with the engine to fulfill the wishes of those who want to change the game.
Make it better is one thing. Changing it because a few do not like it as is, is quite another.

How it plays is more important to me. How it looks while playing it is also important.
Making it play differently is not on the top of my list.

RR


_____________________________

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Dan K)
Post #: 39
RE: AI - 6/13/2010 4:38:18 PM   
torpoint

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		I personally think we have seen the end of improvements to JTCS.
How many bugs are still there waiting for a fix still?
I would like a decent A1 and better graphics myself,
oh, and a decent England team in the World Cup !

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 40
RE: AI - 6/13/2010 5:34:26 PM   
Dan K


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline 		I ordered a 3 disc set directly from Talonsoft (my last purchase from them) and got no manuals, or cases. Just paper sleeves. They were then added to my list of things I do not like including a cast of thousands.

I stand corrected, $45 dollars if you want a cd case and it's $90 for the Bulge cd.

Agreed, the basic play of the game is good now. With the AI for solo play based on victory objectives, probably not much can be done with it. I also think the option for two types of CA should be done away with. They should make an official stance and be firm about it.
The .bmp system of graphics is great. You can change them to you're heart's content. You could even get your dragons and wizards as per "Fantasy General".

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 41
RE: AI - 6/13/2010 7:55:58 PM   
kool_kat


Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: torpoint

I personally think we have seen the end of improvements to JTCS.
How many bugs are still there waiting for a fix still?
I would like a decent A1 and better graphics myself,
oh, and a decent England team in the World Cup !


I agree if you are referencing "bug fixes" for JTCS... I believe the majority have been uncovered and corrected?

But... if you are talking about "other items" that could be improved... in addition to an improved AI... here are some "top of mind" with me.


Mike’s Wish List for MCS 1.05 Update

All Games

Double Time – Select Reachable Hexes to graphically illustrate all the hexes that the currently-selected unit can reach utilizing Double Time BEFORE committing the unit to Double Time. Toggle (off or on)

Unit Bases – Program “remembers” last Unit Bases setting toggle (off or on) for all 3D unit icons on any 3D map view.

Bunkers and Pillboxes – Have a “front” facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc – front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Special Concealment (Anti-Tank Guns) Fog of War – Anti-tank guns smaller than 57mm, reduce 50% maintaining concealment when they fire or move to 35%.

Save Game Warning – Eliminate this warning from the PBeM Command Report.

Extreme Assault – Compromise on a setting “harder” then the pre-1.03 assault rules and “easier” then the 1.04 update. Extreme Assault, in its current form, reduces games to a Direct Fire “slug fest” and essentially eliminates the Assault option for players.

Variable Visibility – Eliminate this optional rule.

Reduce the 5% chance of mortars disabling AFVs to 3%. (I think these are the correct percentages?)


Rising Sun

Caves – Have a “front” facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc – front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Banzai – Eliminate this rule.


_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to torpoint)
Post #: 42
RE: AI - 7/19/2010 8:21:12 AM   
Achsah

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline 		There are simple ways to make ai stronger ai but but as a whole there is only so much one can do with one..And in many ways the ai plays pretty good. Try taking an inf battalion..not panzer grens say in 1943..play it on hard..or worse bagration..or russian infantry in 41..

_____________________________

everyday congress meets we lose a little more of our liberty

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 43
RE: AI - 7/19/2010 6:11:30 PM   
Rekm41


Posts: 561
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Canada EH!
Status: offline 		I would not mind finding a human opponent for this game. Been playing it forever...

_____________________________

Keep Moving and Keep your Head DOWN!!

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)
Post #: 44
RE: AI - 7/19/2010 6:12:43 PM   
Rekm41


Posts: 561
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Canada EH!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest


quote:

ORIGINAL: torpoint

I personally think we have seen the end of improvements to JTCS.
How many bugs are still there waiting for a fix still?
I would like a decent A1 and better graphics myself,
oh, and a decent England team in the World Cup !


I agree if you are referencing "bug fixes" for JTCS... I believe the majority have been uncovered and corrected?

But... if you are talking about "other items" that could be improved... in addition to an improved AI... here are some "top of mind" with me.


Mike’s Wish List for MCS 1.05 Update

All Games

Double Time – Select Reachable Hexes to graphically illustrate all the hexes that the currently-selected unit can reach utilizing Double Time BEFORE committing the unit to Double Time. Toggle (off or on)

Unit Bases – Program “remembers” last Unit Bases setting toggle (off or on) for all 3D unit icons on any 3D map view.

Bunkers and Pillboxes – Have a “front” facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc – front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Special Concealment (Anti-Tank Guns) Fog of War – Anti-tank guns smaller than 57mm, reduce 50% maintaining concealment when they fire or move to 35%.

Save Game Warning – Eliminate this warning from the PBeM Command Report.

Extreme Assault – Compromise on a setting “harder” then the pre-1.03 assault rules and “easier” then the 1.04 update. Extreme Assault, in its current form, reduces games to a Direct Fire “slug fest” and essentially eliminates the Assault option for players.

Variable Visibility – Eliminate this optional rule.

Reduce the 5% chance of mortars disabling AFVs to 3%. (I think these are the correct percentages?)


Rising Sun

Caves – Have a “front” facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc – front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Banzai – Eliminate this rule.


quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: torpoint

I personally think we have seen the end of improvements to JTCS.
How many bugs are still there waiting for a fix still?
I would like a decent A1 and better graphics myself,
oh, and a decent England team in the World Cup !




I think Canada did pretty good in the World Cup!!! LMAO

_____________________________

Keep Moving and Keep your Head DOWN!!

(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 45
RE: AI - 7/19/2010 9:41:47 PM   
Ibilja

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		This is a very interesting thread when coupled with the threads over at the WiF forums. There people are begging that the game be released before a complete AI is built because players would be creative enough to play the game without one. Small wonder that Matrix is scoffing at that notion.

< Message edited by Ibilja -- 7/20/2010 5:14:29 AM >

(in reply to Rekm41)
Post #: 46
RE: AI - 12/2/2010 4:03:49 PM   
SilliusSodus

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline 		I think it should be possible to improve the AI without affecting PBeM, I would like to see a stronger AI, but I think it should be without the optional rules, I think sometimes the scale gets left by the wayside in order to force in elements from squad level tactical games. As an example the manual gives a good explantion why there is no armour facing and that the numbers take into account that in a platoon not all armour would be facing the same direction, my guess here is that players of squad level games missed this feature so it was added as an option (I would be intrested in the history of that optional rule and how the numbers where tweaked to accomadate it). I understand that for some players this is fun but it of course weaked the AI and the game does not fully accomadate it (as designed it does not matter how the armour retreats). I personaly think the game AI should be advanced within the confines of how the system was developed and take into account the games scale. I would say that with all changes as it goes, before a change is made step back and think "is this a reaction to the fact that the icons seem like single units, does this change reflect the fact that an icon is a platoon).

So my vote is start by improving the AI with no optional rules and then slowly build up from there so when an optional rule is selected it also selects a relvent AI sub routine

(in reply to Ibilja)
Post #: 47
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