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Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 2:13:49 PM

snuffl

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/5/2002
Status: offline

As i usually play against the AI as japanese with historical difficulties. So I'd like to know some things about the AI cheating capability.
As I know the AI cheats with his ships as they won't run out of fuel.
Now is there any point exept of victory points why i should bother sink his tankers if the AI can't run out of fuel? What I wonder is how is fuel consumption calculated if a ship is sailing from SF to for example Sydney? Is its fuel stock depleted when it reaches port or does a ship not even use fuel if it sails beyond its endurance?
Or perhaps the AI does not even carry fuel around in the pacific?
Does the AI cheat in any other significant ways (supplies, aviation support, ...)?

Thanks in advance!

Post #: 1

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 2:58:33 PM

chesmart

Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline

The AI cheats only in hard and very hard. In Historical it does not cheat. If you want to make it harder Andy mac has a thread where he explains how to make it harder.

(in reply to snuffl)

Post #: 2

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 4:36:28 PM

Toddr22_slith

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline

Che200,

Do you have a link to the thread, I cannot find it.

Thanks,

(in reply to chesmart)

Post #: 3

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 5:00:14 PM

chesmart

Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2394957

At the bottom of the page.

(in reply to Toddr22_slith)

Post #: 4

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 5:34:22 PM

Toddr22_slith

Posts: 167
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline

THANKS

(in reply to chesmart)

Post #: 5

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 7:32:05 PM

snuffl

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/5/2002
Status: offline

So playing historical Level does not give the AI any advantages! Thx very much for the fast reply!

(in reply to Toddr22_slith)

Post #: 6

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 11:15:25 PM

Deca

Posts: 96
Joined: 11/20/2007
Status: offline

I was under the following impression (if anything below is not correct, please let me know if I am wrong).

Some advantages of the AI
1) Some key nodal bases get small amounts of supply and fuel but not Oil or Resources
2) Gets boost to aircraft production at higer difficulty levels but tied to factories i.e. a factory may produce 2 planes on very hard where it only produces 1 on historical - cut off oil/resources HI etc and it produces 0 on all difficulty levels.
3) Unbound by political points and HQ restrictions
4) Unbound by garrison requirements
5) Unbound by TF load/unload limitations
6) Teleporting Ships - as long as ships are disbanded in a friendly port and ai needs to build a TF at a friendly port it can teleport any ships available if the right type and number exist otherwise no build. It does not teleport TFs.
7) Gets bonus to production, but the AI does not get free resources in the HI and uses the same factory logic as players
8) No restriction on LCU movement due to HQ/restriction (ie. any unit can be loaded/shipped/transported across the Pacific regardless of its HQ).

Does anyone know the answers to the following questions pertaining to the AI
A) Can the AI "teleport" ships which are disbanded (ie NOT in a TF) but severely damaged?

B) Does the AI adhere to the same repair restrictions as the human player such as where BB can be repired, or the time it takes to repair damage to ships?

C) Can the AI get/obtain automatic 100 planning points for any target, or must it adhere to the same time frame (ie 1 or 2 points per turn) to obtain as a human player?

D) Does the AI get unlimited torpedo sorties from Carriers?

NOTE:
This is not intended to invoke replies/responses/debates of "cheating" or whether this is un/fair, but rather simply trying to clarrify certain aspects & capabilities of the AI.

< Message edited by Deca -- 6/25/2010 11:20:00 PM >

_____________________________

"In times of war, the Devil makes more room in Hell"

(in reply to snuffl)

Post #: 7

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/25/2010 11:35:21 PM

Xxzard

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline

On historical difficulty, I certainly have destroyed a huge number of betty bombers, more I feel than could readily be produced. The total is at several thousands in early 1943...

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(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 8

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/26/2010 1:05:19 AM

Sredni

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

I'm playing normal difficulty vs the AI and it certainly doesn't seem to be bound by any garrison rules in china. I've been happily marauding my way through the back country destroying the chinese collaborator units whenever I find them thinking that I'm forcing the japanese to garrison using real troops... only none of the cities I run across seem to be garrisoned by anything close to what they require.

(in reply to snuffl)

Post #: 9

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/26/2010 8:15:04 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deca

I was under the following impression (if anything below is not correct, please let me know if I am wrong).

Some advantages of the AI
1) Some key nodal bases get small amounts of supply and fuel but not Oil or Resources
2) Gets boost to aircraft production at higer difficulty levels but tied to factories i.e. a factory may produce 2 planes on very hard where it only produces 1 on historical - cut off oil/resources HI etc and it produces 0 on all difficulty levels.
3) Unbound by political points and HQ restrictions
4) Unbound by garrison requirements
5) Unbound by TF load/unload limitations
6) Teleporting Ships - as long as ships are disbanded in a friendly port and ai needs to build a TF at a friendly port it can teleport any ships available if the right type and number exist otherwise no build. It does not teleport TFs.
7) Gets bonus to production, but the AI does not get free resources in the HI and uses the same factory logic as players
8) No restriction on LCU movement due to HQ/restriction (ie. any unit can be loaded/shipped/transported across the Pacific regardless of its HQ).

Does anyone know the answers to the following questions pertaining to the AI
A) Can the AI "teleport" ships which are disbanded (ie NOT in a TF) but severely damaged?

B) Does the AI adhere to the same repair restrictions as the human player such as where BB can be repired, or the time it takes to repair damage to ships?

C) Can the AI get/obtain automatic 100 planning points for any target, or must it adhere to the same time frame (ie 1 or 2 points per turn) to obtain as a human player?

D) Does the AI get unlimited torpedo sorties from Carriers?

NOTE:
This is not intended to invoke replies/responses/debates of "cheating" or whether this is un/fair, but rather simply trying to clarrify certain aspects & capabilities of the AI.

This is only for historical level (since AI gets huge benefits when playing Hard or Very Hard.

What I have seen:

1. Yes.
2. Gets some boost, but a/c production was toned down to be more realistic. AI still rarely runs out of planes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes, in sense that it doesn't suffer VP penalties for non-garrisoned bases. It usually garrisons too, but that depends on AI script.
5. Not really, unless counting early war IJN amphibious bonus, but that's for humans too. AI may get slight benefits, but nothing really major that human could not do.
6. Yes, AI can teleport ships if it absolutely has to form TF and lacking suitable ships.
7. Yes.
8. Yes.

A) No idea, but AI can teleport ships to form TFs, so it is possible.
B) AI uses more simple repair routine, more WitP-type.
C) AI can get 100 prep points for any target without wait.
D) No, AI will run out of ordnance just like human. It was problem in earlier versions but not any more. But when playing higher difficulty than historical, this changes too.

So, like Don or Joe said, AI is cheating barsteward and you can adjust how much it cheats by difficulty (from moderate to LOT to REALLY A LOT). For example, on higher difficulty, one could get Kido Butai to sit next to PH for week and never run out of sorties or torpedoes. I think it can still run out of planes, though.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 10

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/27/2010 3:27:27 AM

Deca

Posts: 96
Joined: 11/20/2007
Status: offline

Thank you for the reply Sardaukar

Would you happen to know the following?

1) Although the AI uses a simpler routine for repairs, does it still need to have some what similar Repair Yards, or Port levels, or Ship Tenders etc... in order to repair?

2) What about the un/loading of supplies, fuel, resources, etc.. does the AI adhere to the ship tonnage, port level, and Nav support etc... for which ships can/cannot load/unload as well as to the un/load times if they can?

_____________________________

"In times of war, the Devil makes more room in Hell"

(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 11

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/27/2010 6:05:56 AM

BigJ62

Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline

prep on historical level is 35, hard is 65 and 100 for hardest.

There is still a flaw in loading troops for ai, in that it needs more ships and escorts than a human would need so actually it is harder for ai.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi�AeAi �AeAi�Long live AeAi.

(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 12

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/27/2010 9:05:37 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deca

Thank you for the reply Sardaukar

Would you happen to know the following?

1) Although the AI uses a simpler routine for repairs, does it still need to have some what similar Repair Yards, or Port levels, or Ship Tenders etc... in order to repair?

2) What about the un/loading of supplies, fuel, resources, etc.. does the AI adhere to the ship tonnage, port level, and Nav support etc... for which ships can/cannot load/unload as well as to the un/load times if they can?

Thanks BigJ62 for clarifying that, quite interesting!

Well, for question 1, I think AI uses WitP-esque repair system, where you can repair anything in any 3+ port (except destroyed/damaged devices), speed depending on size of port and other things. But for example, I don't think AI needs shipyard etc. present to repair major damage like human player.

2) I think AI follows the rules there, but probably has some bonus.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 13

RE: Question regarding AI - 6/28/2010 5:38:59 AM

Deca

Posts: 96
Joined: 11/20/2007
Status: offline

Sardaukar & BigJ62 thnx for all the replies

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
prep on historical level is 35, hard is 65 and 100 for hardest.

To clarify, does that mean if playing on hard that any time the AI attacks/defends that it will automatically have 65 Prep for each & every attack or only on Base hex locations?

Furthermore, are those values the maximums, or will it sometimes plan ahead in order to obtain more than 65 prep?

_____________________________

"In times of war, the Devil makes more room in Hell"

(in reply to BigJ62)

Post #: 14

RE: Question regarding AI - 4/7/2016 6:22:18 PM

miv792

Posts: 159
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline

The difficulty levels of the AI are what I would like to know what gives the is hard and very hard ?

_____________________________

Sorry for my english

(in reply to Deca)

Post #: 15

RE: Question regarding AI - 4/7/2016 6:58:21 PM

Alpha77

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

The reason the AI can repair ships (with major damage) without a yard is simple, the programming would be to difficult to handle (imho)

Also AI ships WILL&CAN run out of fuel, but seems they get no damage from this - for the same reason as above.

Edit:
"A) Can the AI "teleport" ships which are disbanded (ie NOT in a TF) but severely damaged? "

I believe NO, but they can use much more ports to repair them and they do not go into dock or yard repair mode. But stay at readiness, as the AI can repair major damage at readiness mode.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/7/2016 7:04:07 PM >

(in reply to miv792)

Post #: 16

RE: Question regarding AI - 4/7/2016 7:46:56 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

For STOCK scenario on NORMAL difficulty
1. Not any more than in the scenario itself.
2. n/a
3. yes
4. No VP penalty
5. No
6. Yes
7. No
8. Yes

a. Yes, so sometimes it uses damaged ships in TF's
b. No.
c. No. 35 per dev
d. No.

For different difficulty levels, responses change. For Ironman scenarios, responses change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deca

I was under the following impression (if anything below is not correct, please let me know if I am wrong).

Some advantages of the AI
1) Some key nodal bases get small amounts of supply and fuel but not Oil or Resources
2) Gets boost to aircraft production at higer difficulty levels but tied to factories i.e. a factory may produce 2 planes on very hard where it only produces 1 on historical - cut off oil/resources HI etc and it produces 0 on all difficulty levels.
3) Unbound by political points and HQ restrictions
4) Unbound by garrison requirements
5) Unbound by TF load/unload limitations
6) Teleporting Ships - as long as ships are disbanded in a friendly port and ai needs to build a TF at a friendly port it can teleport any ships available if the right type and number exist otherwise no build. It does not teleport TFs.
7) Gets bonus to production, but the AI does not get free resources in the HI and uses the same factory logic as players
8) No restriction on LCU movement due to HQ/restriction (ie. any unit can be loaded/shipped/transported across the Pacific regardless of its HQ).

Does anyone know the answers to the following questions pertaining to the AI
A) Can the AI "teleport" ships which are disbanded (ie NOT in a TF) but severely damaged?

B) Does the AI adhere to the same repair restrictions as the human player such as where BB can be repired, or the time it takes to repair damage to ships?

C) Can the AI get/obtain automatic 100 planning points for any target, or must it adhere to the same time frame (ie 1 or 2 points per turn) to obtain as a human player?

D) Does the AI get unlimited torpedo sorties from Carriers?

NOTE:
This is not intended to invoke replies/responses/debates of "cheating" or whether this is un/fair, but rather simply trying to clarrify certain aspects & capabilities of the AI.