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RE: One Weird Battle

 
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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 2:53:02 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/23/42
 
India at Sea:  No landings at Diego, but the KB shows up near Karachi.  ASW ships had reported Vals yesterday, so this came as no surprise.  There's no Allied shipping (except small ASW patrols) anywhere around, so Brad has bored a dry hole.  At this point it suits me very well to have the KB parked at the edge of the map again.

India on the Ground:  The Allies have 2000 AV at Bombay and at least 400 more on the way.  The Japanese have 26 units at Poona.  Brad is reconning Bombay and will note the Allies have 36 units there, so he knows the Allies plan to make a stand.

India in the Air:  For some reason, all Allied aircraft stood down this turn.  Brad's engineers already have Poona airfield to level two.

CenPac:  Confirming that the KB was really, really far away convinvced me that the Allies should commence with the Baker Island campaign.  This island with level one airfield is garrisoned by two units, one of which is a base force.  I expect the other is a Naval Guard of something similar.  The Allies are bringing about 350 AV in the form of 145 RCT, 159 Motorized RCT, 102 Combat Engineers, 4 Field Artillery, 637 Tank Destroyer, two AA units, 255 Base Force, and I Amphibious HQ.  The nearest Japanese airbase is Tabituea - level four at a distance of about 13 hexes.  How effective will Bettys and Nells be at that range?  I won't have much, if any CAP, but I combat loaded the troops on nearly double the needed ships in order to expedite unloading.  The invasion force will depart San Diego in three or four days.  If necessary I can hold things up briefly to permit CVE Long Island to pick up a Wildcat unit to provide some local CAP.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 3:57:11 PM   
desicat

 

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Using CVE Long Island to reveal a few naval air assets could help your fleet in being posture. Imagine what he will be thinking when your first amphibious island invasion hits Baker? Are some of CR's CV's at Baker?

At some point the fleet in being concept ceases to be an immediate threat and becomes an "at anchor" non factor until the stakes are raised to a point where both sides know they will be committed.

Best to keep him wondering that your fleet could be used at any time, and by revealing hints of naval air it will keep him guessing as to your intentions.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 4:11:18 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/24/42
 
India at Sea:  KB moves southwest with Vals picking off a picket xAKL.  I don't think there is an immediate threat of major invasion of the NW India coast (that would be a big shock).

India in the Air:  Allied bombers and sweepig fighters hit the airfield at Poona.  Losses were about 1:1, which is acceptable at the moment.

India on the Ground:  Two more IJ units at Poona bringing the total to 28.  I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that this is the real spearhead.

NoPac:  An AA unit is heading for Umnak Island.  Base building continues.

CenPac:  The invasion force departed San Diego.  Transports loaded with Wildcats departed SD for Christmas Island, where it will rendezvous with CVE Long Island.  Transports combat loaded with supplies departed Pearl Harbor for Christmas Island.  I don't think use of Long Island will deceive Brad in the least, so I will use only if I think a handful of Wildcats will help fend off Netties from Tabituea.   

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 4:14:25 PM   
Smeulders

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

6/24/42
 
India at Sea:  KB moves southwest with Vals picking off a picket xAKL.  I don't think there is an immediate threat of major invasion of the NW India coast (that would be a big shock).

India in the Air:  Allied bombers and sweepig fighters hit the airfield at Poona.  Losses were about 1:1, which is acceptable at the moment.

India on the Ground:  Two more IJ units at Poona bringing the total to 28.  I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that this is the real spearhead.

NoPac:  An AA unit is heading for Umnak Island.  Base building continues.

CenPac:  The invasion force departed San Diego.  Transports loaded with Wildcats departed SD for Christmas Island, where it will rendezvous with CVE Long Island.  Transports combat loaded with supplies departed Pearl Harbor for Christmas Island.  I don't think use of Long Island will deceive Brad in the least, so I will use only if I think a handful of Wildcats will help fend off Netties from Tabituea.   


You should be careful about the disruption that accumulates from being on an amphibious TF. Your forces could be in pretty bad shape just from being at sea for such a long time before they get to Baker.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 4:21:13 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

If necessary I can hold things up briefly to permit CVE Long Island to pick up a Wildcat unit to provide some local CAP.


Yes, this is needed just to take on the Nell/Betty. Remember that he can use drop tanks on his Zero to a range of 14 hexes. I would form 2 or 3 small SC TF with about 3 or 4 DDs in each that would be placed on the western side of Baker Island. Nell/Betty have trouble hitting them regardless of experience levels of their pilots. Hopefully, they go for them and waste torpedoes on ships that are almost impossible to hit vs your transports.

From west to east would be DDs (3 or 4 hexes to west of Baker), transports at Baker, CVE Long Island (to the east and just within LRCAP range of transports).

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 6:09:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders
You should be careful about the disruption that accumulates from being on an amphibious TF. Your forces could be in pretty bad shape just from being at sea for such a long time before they get to Baker.


Great tip, Smeulders. Thanks. Perhaps I will unload at Christmas and then reload. Or would they need a good stretch of time ashore to recover from disruption?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 6:10:26 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Yes, this is needed just to take on the Nell/Betty. Remember that he can use drop tanks on his Zero to a range of 14 hexes. I would form 2 or 3 small SC TF with about 3 or 4 DDs in each that would be placed on the western side of Baker Island. Nell/Betty have trouble hitting them regardless of experience levels of their pilots. Hopefully, they go for them and waste torpedoes on ships that are almost impossible to hit vs your transports.

From west to east would be DDs (3 or 4 hexes to west of Baker), transports at Baker, CVE Long Island (to the east and just within LRCAP range of transports).


Very helpful suggestions, Michael. Thanks.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 6:30:18 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Great tip, Smeulders. Thanks. Perhaps I will unload at Christmas and then reload. Or would they need a good stretch of time ashore to recover from disruption?


This will take a few days to happen. What is the level of base expansion at Christmas?? If you have more than enough support troops at the base and a HQ, it will go faster. If you have to load over a series of days, do the support troops first and the combat troops last to decrease their level of disruption.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 6:49:13 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/25/42
 
India on the Ground:  Amphibious invasion of Diego Garcia has commenced.  Things aren't going well for the Japanese, which landed 148 Regiment, 16 Naval Guard, and Yokosuka SNLF.  Shore guns, the usual attrition during a beach assault, and probable lack of preparation (guessing there as I never got any "Diego prep" SigInt) combined with stiffer opposition than I think Brad expected (an Indian brigade).  Assault came off at 1:4, didn't touch four forts, and cursor reveals just one IJ unit remaining in the hex.  The Indian brigade will attack tomorrow.  I think the Japanese also lost at least four transports.  This is one of the few mistakes I've seen Brad make thus far.

India in the Air:  Another tough battle over Poona with 1:1 losses of about 25 aircraft apiece.  Since Japan has a seemingly inexhaustable supply of aircraft, while the RAF has nearly no aircraft, I don't know how long I can continue on these terms, but at least another week I think.

India at Sea:  KB moved further south and west.  Assuming it returns toward Colombo, I'll send out more picket ships as transports carrying supplies and aircraft are ready to make the run from Abadan to Karachi.

Baker Island:  Thanks for the good help, guys.  I will probably unload and re-load the amphbious force at Christmas Island.  Most of my troops, by the way, are 100% prepped.  I'm also transporting an F-4 unit to Christmas Island.  It'll re-base to Canton and fly some missions just prior to the invasion.

Sub Wars:  Subs have picked off a few xAKLs - one near Perth, one near Hobart.  Also, I-22 put a TT into BB Idaho west of San Fran.  Damage is light/moderate.  Idaho will proceed to Pearl for repairs.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 7:41:11 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

India in the Air:  Another tough battle over Poona with 1:1 losses of about 25 aircraft apiece.  Since Japan has a seemingly inexhaustable supply of aircraft, while the RAF has nearly no aircraft, I don't know how long I can continue on these terms, but at least another week I think.


Have you managed to bring any USAAF fighter squadrons to India? I find this is a good place to use the surplus P-39 Airacobras. They do fairly well against Japanese fighters other than the Zero or Tojo, and thye have good ground-pounding abilities.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 7:50:58 PM   
Canoerebel


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Yes, I have six or seven V Corps squadrons including three or four P39 and the rest P-40. These were in a big convoy heading from East Coast to Oz via Capetown early in the war, but I diverted them to India when things began to look hairy.

I have about ten more squadrons - half fighter, half bomber - on the way from East Coast, but it will be a long time before they arrive.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 7:56:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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One other thing worth noting.  Brad has the juicy amphibious TF with accompanying two-BB bombardment TF at Diego Garcia while his carriers are way off in the Arabian Sea.  He doesn't know where my carriers are, so I'm very surprised he would leave his BBs unprotected.  That's risky behavior, and he's done it a few times during the game. 

For all he knows, I could easily pop my carriers out of the Capetown channel, clobber his BBs, and disappear.  (I actually can't, because two of my CVs are upgrading and need another 17 days in the yards).  But there may come another time when I'll be ready to do so.

I can't imagine Brad be incautious - not his style - so does he actually know where my carriers are, or does he really, really think they're far off at someplace like NoPac? 




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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/23/2010 8:17:56 PM   
Smeulders

 

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Well, look at it from his position, he wants to take Diego Garcia, OK, he wants 2 BB for bombardment, no problem. Now, the danger are you carriers, but the closest they can be is either Cape Town or Perth.

1) If they come from Perth, he can get advance warning, he probably has some subs around the port, air search from Cocos Islands etc. It also at least means 10 or 12 days sailing.
2) Cape Town, no advance warning possible, but again, it take 10 days to go from Cape Town to an on-map position near Diego Garcia.

So if he figures that he will finish the operation in a week, then there is very little risk of you getting your carriers in a strike position before he gets his ships out of dodge again. The main risk is that your carriers aren't in port but already on their way, but that isn't really that likely. (+ Maybe he looked at upgrade schedules and figured some of your CV would be offline now)

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 5:15:56 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders
You should be careful about the disruption that accumulates from being on an amphibious TF. Your forces could be in pretty bad shape just from being at sea for such a long time before they get to Baker.


Great tip, Smeulders. Thanks. Perhaps I will unload at Christmas an
d then reload. Or would they need a good stretch of time ashore to recover from disruption?


You can always check the embarked troops to see what disruption they've accumulated. Make sure you look at enough to get a sense of the population, as they won't all be the same.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 11:28:33 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

so does he actually know where my carriers are, or does he really, really think they're far off at someplace like NoPac?

"Loose Lips Sink Ships". If we knew, we couldn't tell. Happy to report operational security has been excellent in both AAR's. Meaning, I don't think anybody has accidentally leaked a single drop of intelligence.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 7:39:38 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

For all he knows, I could easily pop my carriers out of the Capetown channel, clobber his BBs, and disappear.  (I actually can't, because two of my CVs are upgrading and need another 17 days in the yards).


Oh, shucks. Personally, I would have collected the carriers I could, and gone for it. Since you know where the KB is, it's not much of a risk. How's the experience of your air groups?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 8:08:58 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Oh, shucks. Personally, I would have collected the carriers I could, and gone for it. Since you know where the KB is, it's not much of a risk. How's the experience of your air groups?

I think he then tips his hand as to the location of his carriers and I bet he does not have many extra SBD's and TBF's. Even though he has no combat he probably has just filled out his dive bombers with some reserves and not yet filled out his torpedo bombers. He would take a bunch of AA losses against BB's.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 10:34:11 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/26/42
 
India on the Ground:  Brad seems to have withdrawn his ships from Diego Garcia, but the Indian brigade wasn't strong enough to defeat the troops already ashore.  Brad will undoutbedly come back another day with more troops.

India in the Air:  Another big engagement over Poona with roughly 1:1 losses of around 20 aircraft each.  That really isn't bad if Japan is using it's best pilots to fly its best aircraft.  However, the airfield there went from level two to four in about two days it seems, so Brad has lots of engineers at work.

India at Sea:  All Allied picket ships withdrew to safety, so I didn't pick up any sign of the KB.  I'm sending out a new line of Picket ships from Abadan and Mombassa.  I have some troops, supplies, and aicraft container ships ready to make the run to Karachi.

Reading the Tea Leaves:  It's still very hard to determine Brad's ultimate plan.  My guess is that he could build Poona up to max size (can't recall, but it might be level 9) from which to then handle the air campaign against Bombay while also sending in a mass of troops.  If that is what he's doing, such a campaign will take an awfully long time.

SoPac:  All Baker Island invasion ships, men, and cargo are on the way to Christmas Island, the pre-invasion point of assembly.  While Baker Island does offer some strategic benefits, the main purpose of this invasion is to draw Brad's attention to southeastern CenPac, lending the appearance that the Allies might well have plans to hit Kwajalein eventually.  IE, this operation is mainly a diversion.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/24/2010 10:38:50 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
Oh, shucks. Personally, I would have collected the carriers I could, and gone for it. Since you know where the KB is, it's not much of a risk. How's the experience of your air groups?


I don't want to commit the carriers there, yet. At the moment, the highest purpose for my carrier groups is to be ready and in place to escort the big reinforcement convoys to Karachi if the need arises. That duty should be complete in about 90 days. Thereafter I would certainly consider offensive action against BBs.

My carrier air groups have been training the entire game. All groups are overfilled iwth pilots. All but two divebomber squadrons have upgraded from the SBD-2. All but three torpedo squadrons have upgraded from the Devastator. All fighter squadrons are equipped with Wildcats - about 1/2 with F43 and the other 1/2 wiht F4F. By the time the carriers move forward toward Karachi, I think all squadonrs will have, as appropriate, SBD-3 and Avengers.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/25/2010 7:58:37 AM   
JeffroK


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When you take Baker Island get any ship capable of laying mines and set up a 'devils garden'. (Plus a tender to maintain it)

I'm sure the IJN will come visiting.


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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/25/2010 10:05:45 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/27/42 to 6/29/42
 
India on the Ground:  The big Japanese spearhead remains at Poona, though a few units have moved north to sniff for Allied defenses.  I don't have much in the area, but two Oz brigades at Surat serve as a mobile defense force.  If Brad's "sniffers" move on Indore, I'll move the Aussie's there first.

India in the Air:  The Allies are really holding their own in the air battle over Poona.  On the 29th, for instance, they achieved nearly a 2:1 victory.  I would really like to maintain the favorable results as that would surely factor into Brad's decision as to whether he can prevail in a sustained campaign.

India at Sea:  It will take me about four days to get my picket ships in place.  Until then I'm not taking any chances.  If it looks like the KB won't be in a position to impose a blockade of Karachi, I'll send in my reinforcements without the carriers.  In that event, I may send my carriers north toward Diego Garcia and see if I can time it to catch a secondary invasion.  My carriers will finish upgrading in one week.

Reinforcements:  An Indian brigade and a British recce armored unit just arrived at Karachi.  I'm sending these guys to Ahmadebad.  The first of three UK brigades has arrived at Aden.  The other two will arrive in the next few days.  These troops go to Karachi to ensure that I have a quality and stout defense there.

Grand Strategic Plan:  For OpSec reasons I am keeping the destination secret.  As noted previously, my hope is to delay implementation until spring 1943, but I may need to move as early as late '42 if Japanese auto-victory appears possible.  Troops are already prepping, and I am working steadily to position them in or near the ports of embarkation.  I have been closely monitoring Japanese base-building activity since the beginning of the game.  There are no indications of serious activity where the Allies intend to strike.  Nearly all of Brad's activity is in places where I want him to be focusing.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/26/2010 2:55:09 PM   
Canoerebel


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6/30/42 and 7/1/42
 
Time flies when you're having fun!

Bataan:  I failed to note that Bataan fell a few days ago - I think the 28th.  This gave Brad another 900 or so points for Allied troops destroyed.  On the other hand, the long seige and total lack of supplies allowed him to reduce the base by using just a handful of troops (nothing larger than a regiment).  Usually, the fall of Luzon frees up boukoup Japanese units for the "next wave," but in this case Brad moved all the major troops off long ago, so at least I don't have to worry about that.

Auto Victory:  I absolutely love this aspect of the game.  It gives the Japanese player something to shoot for - to conceive, organize, and implement a plan to win the game.  Even in Scenario Two it's a very tough task and the Allies have plenty of resources and options to try to thwart the plan, so it brings a great deal of excitement to the game.  It should also be noted that Brad has gone about this in a logical, believable way - invade India and destroy the enemy (as opposed to scouring the map for the highest point bases and then targeting those even if the overall plan didn't make any strategic sense whatsoever).  Right now the IJ lead is something like 28k+ to 8k+.  With the fall of Bataan, Brad doesn't have any more easy pickings.  He has a shot if he can take a base or two like Bombay, destroying large armies in the process, but doing that is going to be very difficult, me thinks.

India in the Air:  Brad appears to have conceded the air battle over Poona (and over Goa), at least temporarily.  The Allies found no opposition the past two days.  Will he reorganize?  Surely he won't allow Allied bombers to hit his ground troops freely?  RN bombers, by the way, are completely useless.  But RN fighters and US fighters and bombers hold their own.  So, guys, if India is at risk in your PBEM, be sure to allocate sufficient US aircraft there.

India on the Ground:  Waiting to see whether Brad will move on Bombay in force.

India at Sea:  Wasp has arrived at Capetown, joing the other Allied carriers.

India Reinforcements:  The UK units arriving in Aden are assigned to Eastern command, which means I haven't had to use PP to "buy" them.

CenPac:  Hence, I have used some PP to free up another US Army RCT at San Diego.  This one is 100% prepped for Baker Island and will serve as the invasion reserve.  Thanks to Smeulders for pointing out that I needed to be aware of disruption to the invasion units since they are traveling such a long distance.  I've been checking them and the level is already about 10%.  So I'll unload at Christmas Island, then reload when they are "good to go."  D-Day will be in three or four weeks. 

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/26/2010 7:11:18 PM   
Canoerebel


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India vs. Oz
 
In Scenario Two, an experienced, capable Japanese player has a legitimate shot at auto victory.  To achieve it Japan probably needs to conquer either India or Australia.  A decivisve defeat of the Allied carrier fleet would be a big boost either way.  (Also, it might be possible to achieve auto victory by conquering Hawaii and scoring big against the Allied fleet including carriers, though I'm less certain about that.)

Based upon what I've experienced in my game with Brad to date, I suspect that India may be the tougher route to victory due to the large number of troops present and arriving as reinforcements, and the proximity of the protected "ship channels" to Karachi, permitting quick and relatively secure transportation of troops.

It may be easier for Japan to impose a blockade against Oz by taking Perth to the west and then a port on the south coast (Augusta, Adelaide, or Portland).  Oz has far less troops and aircraft with which to defend itself and it takes alot of time and political points to get quality troops there from USA or Capetown.

Had Brad used combat ships, carriers, and subs to contest Allied use of Oz ports, taking a few southern coast bases early on, and had he then landed 15 divisions beginning around early March '42 (the same time when he invaded Ceylon in our game), I think Oz would have been much tougher to defend.

In India, the Allies can oppose Japan with many divisions - I lost one UK Div. on Ceylon.  In India, I had another UK Div. (with a third arriving now), an Oz division (because I suspected Brad might be heading for India), and a the equivalent of about six or eight Indian divisions.  That's alot of troops with alot of urban hexes to hide in.

On the other hand, Oz begins with a mishmash of militia and a handful of decent brigades.  It takes some time and risk to get better troops there (the two Oz divisions that arrive at Aden during the first half of '42, and the inexperienced USA divisions that you have to buy).  It might be possible for a very clever, skillful, and aggressive Japanese player to impose a tight enough blockade to permit him to employ his massive divisions against the major Allied bases before reinforcements could arrive.

Of course, risks are entailed.  If the IJ player fails to achieve auto victory, the reinforcements triggered by the invasion of the southern Oz (and which arrive in Capetown) are really going to bolster the Allied army somewhere.  Imagine setting lose such an army in Burma.

In summary, I think I'd be more worried about Oz as an Allied player.

P.S.  I'm not dismissing Brad's chances for auto victory in our game yet, by any means, but rather just contemplating the possibilities of a concerted Oz campaign now that I know that it's secure in this game.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/26/2010 8:18:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Based upon what I've experienced in my game with Brad to date, I suspect that India may be the tougher route to victory due to the large number of troops present and arriving as reinforcements, and the proximity of the protected "ship channels" to Karachi, permitting quick and relatively secure transportation of troops.



Interesting analysis. It probably wouldn't surprise you to learn that there was extensive discussion of strategic options many months ago in the other AAR.

A question though. Suppose, following the fall of Ceylon, your opponent had, instead of going into NE India/Calcutta, jumped by sea directly to an amphibious invasion of Karachi in April, employing 5-7 largely unprepped divisions? Assume your carriers were where they were, and the rest of the RN/USN the same. How do you think you would have fared by now?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 10/26/2010 8:28:12 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

RN bombers, by the way, are completely useless.


When going through defended airspace, that's largely true. However, a squadron of Wellingtons, because of their range and payload, can force the Japanese to spread out their fighters over a number of airbases.

Have you thought of converting some Commonwealth units to B-25's?

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 685
RE: One Weird Battle - 10/26/2010 8:43:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
...Suppose, following the fall of Ceylon, your opponent had, instead of going into NE India/Calcutta, jumped by sea directly to an amphibious invasion of Karachi in April, employing 5-7 largely unprepped divisions? Assume your carriers were where they were, and the rest of the RN/USN the same. How do you think you would have fared by now?


I don't fault Brad for going for Ceylon first - he did it quickly, at low cost, and destroyed a British division in the process. By doing so, he removed a large and potentially hazardous "unsinkable carrier" to his rear. This was, in my opinion, an excellent first step towards conquering India.

Since most of the Burma army had already withdrawn into India and was no longer a sure bet to isolate and destroy, I definately think Brad should have gone for the juglar following Ceylon. I think my biggest worry would have been an invasion of Surat, the port north of Bombay, followed by quick moves to isolate Bombay and to severe the roads leading between NE India and Karachi. Employing that strategy, I think Brad could have then used his 15 divisions to destroy the pockets of resistance, which would have been weaker than than the relatively stout MLR I have at the moment.

To answer your question, a direct invasion of Karachi (or Bombay, I believe), would have been devastating if successful. Whether they could have succeeded is another matter - they are easy to defend due to the urban terrain. Preparation failure would seriously weaken the units and lead to big losses during the landings. Plus, an alert Allied player should be able to get a sizeable contingent there quickly to bolster the garrison(s). So I think a direct invasion and conquest of either of those two bases would be tough to achieve, and a failure would be devastating to Japan's efforts.

As for the gambit I feared the most - an invasion of Surat - I had 450 AV there behind four forts. That probably would have given me enough time to hastily organize my defenses at Bombay, Amadebad, and Karachi. But there's a base right across the bay - the name escpaes me - that was only defended by 100 AV. A landing there would have really unhinged my defenses, but I think it would have also triggered the aut0-reinforcements. Note that either Surat or that nearby base would give Brad an airfield that would permit effective reconnassance (and thus teamwork with ships to shut down Allied traffic to Karachi) and, once the base(s) was built, the ability to strike by air. Yikes for the Allies!

Overall, though, I can't say for certain. We'll have to wait and see how the strategy works in another game, though whether any Allied player would play possum like I have is doubtful.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/26/2010 8:50:40 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 686
RE: One Weird Battle - 10/27/2010 1:12:05 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To answer your question, a direct invasion of Karachi (or Bombay, I believe), would have been devastating if successful. Whether they could have succeeded is another matter - they are easy to defend due to the urban terrain. Preparation failure would seriously weaken the units and lead to big losses during the landings. Plus, an alert Allied player should be able to get a sizeable contingent there quickly to bolster the garrison(s). So I think a direct invasion and conquest of either of those two bases would be tough to achieve, and a failure would be devastating to Japan's efforts.


I'm not sure what Surat gets you at that early date that Karachi doesn't get you better. Losing Karachi takes away the 1-day "wormhole" transit from the Mideast and makes any supplies or LCU reenforcements form there have to stay at sea southbound long enough to get whacked by surface TFs and subs. Taking Karachi fast gives him that recon/search base he needs. Karachi is worth 450 VPs, plus LCU losses there. All of the crossing-the-line reenforcements that come into Aden would have to get ashore south of Karachi, and could get whacked too.

Karachi's urban terrain bonus is only x2. In fact, as was pointed out to me in a sweet "RTFM" PM by a forum regular, there are only three hexes in India with the x4 bonus: Madras, Calcutta, and Bombay. I agree that x4 with unprepped assault troops is hard. But x2, with low CD, and 7 divisions of unprepped troops, and I think Karachi would have fallen before the Mideast or naval forces off-map could have arrived, or marched/railed-in troops from the interior either. (And they'd be pre-war-training Indian Army troops. IOW, lunch.)

Once he has Karachi and you're isolated from the world, he can systematically shut down all of the HI-based supply generation (no fuel, Bombay can be isolated), and force you to defend on LI-supplies only. From Karachi he can work south, or east to Dehli, or do a seapower-based hit on Madras (for VPs and supply, plus pincer south India), or go over to Chittagong and reap VPs from exhausted Burma refugees.

We'll never know until someone tries it. But IMO you got very lucky that he went NE when you refused to bring out your navy.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 687
RE: One Weird Battle - 10/27/2010 2:15:04 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I don't disagree. Like I said above, Japanese conquest of Karachi would be disastrous for the Allies.

Recognizing that, I kept a fairly strong garrison at Karachi - usually around 600 AV. Too, a landing there would release the auto reinforcements including at least one infantry unit of some strength at Karachi.

I thought, however, that Karachi was a major urban hex. When I look at my map, it appears to me that Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Cawnpore, Delhi, Lucknow and Karachi are all the same color (4x major urban). If that's not the case, I've been basing my defenses on a bad miscalculation!

On the assumption that Karachi was 4x urban, I was more worried about Surat because it wasn't good defensible terrain. A sizeable force landed there could move quickly to isolate both Bombay and Karachi. From there, Japan could take both.

But I'm glad I didn't have to test my theories about either Karachi or Surat! :)

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 688
RE: One Weird Battle - 10/27/2010 2:27:09 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


I thought, however, that Karachi was a major urban hex. When I look at my map, it appears to me that Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Cawnpore, Delhi, Lucknow and Karachi are all the same color (4x major urban). If that's not the case, I've been basing my defenses on a bad miscalculation!



Check that your eyeglass prescription is up to date. Only Calcutta and Bombay are dark grey. All the others are light grey. Also, hit the 1 key to be sure about terrain since it is not always 100% clear what the terrain is in a hex simply judging by the art work.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 689
RE: One Weird Battle - 10/27/2010 3:45:55 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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As was pointed out to me in my RTFM PM, using the "1" hotkey displays all of the terrain codes in every hex. Karachi is a Ul--Urban Light. The three I named are Uh. I too was going by colors off the map legend, but it turns out that there's an app for that. Those codes cross to the table on page 189, Section 8.3.1, for the penalties/ratings.

Edit: Also, it appears my PM correspondent is hoist on his own petard. Madras is indeed a x2, Ul. I have a Transport TF sitting right on top of the Madras code in my game. I just loaded a fresh scenario to see it clearly, and it's a Ul.

Terrain is kind of important. I wish it were a standard part of the base screen, or at least showed in the Base Summary table on the task bar.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/27/2010 3:50:28 AM >


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Post #: 690
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