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RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:06:17 PM   
Toby42


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Status: offline 		Yeah, I gave him the Green Button also....

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Post #: 31
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:13:22 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
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From: Buffalo,ny
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I guess I just wished I could understand why you don't want MORE shoppers in your store. I've seen it so many times over my lifetime these NICHE HOBBY SHOPS open up and close in the middle of the night. They never survive because they are like a horse with blinders on and focus on ONE THING. So now my question is why don't you do like Paradox and Strategy First and even Stardock and BRANCH OUT into other avenues so you can open your doors to "everyone" instead of just your niche friends and family? Remember KayBee toy stores? How about M.E. Moses?(I used to get my toy army men from there in 100pc packages) Gibson's Discount Centers?

Also I never see that newletter in my email that's what I'm talking about when I say news LETTER. (key word being letter) An EMAIL to me about an upcoming sales or promotion would be nice. I get Slitherines every single month.




The only people who would shop in that store are the same shoppers as now with only a few new curiosity seekers.... Face it, this is a niche field. We arent getting any new young blood in droves and all of us are getting older. While I personally would love a lower price, all it would do is give less money to Matrix and hence to the developers of these games making them desert us and jump into fields full of pimply faced twitch gamers.. All we would have left would be memories of the old days......


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Post #: 32
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:29:00 PM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns



I have played HTTR and plain and simple I didn't care for it. So that is another reason BftB has no extreme value to me.



You are not making any sense.If you didnt like HTTR why would you have any interest in BftB?You say BftB has no value to you,yet you rant and rave about the price?Give us a break from your nonsense Killroyishere.


To answer your question I was interested in the Bulge with that engine, but, not for $80. Though I've played it 100 ways I might have looked at it for $60. HTTR Market Garden didn't interest me. Once again you ASSumed something I didn't say. You ASSumed what you "thought" I meant. You really shouldn't ASSume so much. BTW aren't you the Paradox forum troll here?

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Post #: 33
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:30:42 PM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I guess I just wished I could understand why you don't want MORE shoppers in your store. I've seen it so many times over my lifetime these NICHE HOBBY SHOPS open up and close in the middle of the night. They never survive because they are like a horse with blinders on and focus on ONE THING. So now my question is why don't you do like Paradox and Strategy First and even Stardock and BRANCH OUT into other avenues so you can open your doors to "everyone" instead of just your niche friends and family? Remember KayBee toy stores? How about M.E. Moses?(I used to get my toy army men from there in 100pc packages) Gibson's Discount Centers?

Also I never see that newletter in my email that's what I'm talking about when I say news LETTER. (key word being letter) An EMAIL to me about an upcoming sales or promotion would be nice. I get Slitherines every single month.




The only people who would shop in that store are the same shoppers as now with only a few new curiosity seekers.... Face it, this is a niche field. We arent getting any new young blood in droves and all of us are getting older. While I personally would love a lower price, all it would do is give less money to Matrix and hence to the developers of these games making them desert us and jump into fields full of pimply faced twitch gamers.. All we would have left would be memories of the old days......




That ^ is pretty much an ASSumptive statement as well. You can't prove any of that. Mere speculation is all you can muster.

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 34
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:36:39 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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Post #: 35
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:40:13 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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quote:



ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns




BTW aren't you the Paradox forum troll here?

You mean the forum you have been banned from for insulting others and trolling?Under what name were you on that forum?As stated by me and several others we are sick of you bs.

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Post #: 36
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:46:10 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		I think he means you bairdlander you have been the forum troll here for a long time. I even remember your runins with killjoy. lol Green button time. lmao

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Post #: 37
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 5:51:37 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Yes he was almost banned or was banned so he opened a new account with the name MajBurns.

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Post #: 38
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 6:44:03 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		he(majburns) reminds me of a certain someone who was banned a long time ago...

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Post #: 39
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 6:45:55 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I guess I just wished I could understand why you don't want MORE shoppers in your store. I've seen it so many times over my lifetime these NICHE HOBBY SHOPS open up and close in the middle of the night. They never survive because they are like a horse with blinders on and focus on ONE THING. So now my question is why don't you do like Paradox and Strategy First and even Stardock and BRANCH OUT into other avenues so you can open your doors to "everyone" instead of just your niche friends and family? Remember KayBee toy stores? How about M.E. Moses?(I used to get my toy army men from there in 100pc packages) Gibson's Discount Centers?

Also I never see that newletter in my email that's what I'm talking about when I say news LETTER. (key word being letter) An EMAIL to me about an upcoming sales or promotion would be nice. I get Slitherines every single month.




The only people who would shop in that store are the same shoppers as now with only a few new curiosity seekers.... Face it, this is a niche field. We arent getting any new young blood in droves and all of us are getting older. While I personally would love a lower price, all it would do is give less money to Matrix and hence to the developers of these games making them desert us and jump into fields full of pimply faced twitch gamers.. All we would have left would be memories of the old days......




That ^ is pretty much an ASSumptive statement as well. You can't prove any of that. Mere speculation is all you can muster.


and neither can you. Can you PROVE more people would shop here if the price was lower?

(in reply to MajFrankBurns)
Post #: 40
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 6:50:48 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		My issue isn't the Frank Burns message, but when developers/Erik and their likes take time out of their day to refute his constant complaints and rhetoric it has to take some time away from more important issues. In the end we all lose. If MFB thinks this way about the leader in computer wargaming, it's hard for this gamer to think there isn't some kind of axe to grind with the people here. If the message is honest and forthright he/she may be better served going to other sites and complaining ad nauseam to get their customer support/ games up to the level of work that Matrix produces.

Thanks Matrix!  Happy BFTB and AE Customer---Looking for more titles that are the pinnacle of PC wargaming!

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 7/14/2010 6:57:37 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 7:07:25 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

You mean the forum you have been banned from for insulting others and trolling?Under what name were you on that forum?As stated by me and several others we are sick of you bs.

Butthurt detected.

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Post #: 42
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 7:34:20 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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Status: offline 		Keep things civil folks, I do not want to ban anyone else.

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Post #: 43
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 9:59:22 PM   
berto


Posts: 20708
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns
Even Slitherine your partner now gives "preorder" sales on games like Field of Glory and its expansions. Plus their games are priced accordingly around $30 for most new releases.

The ~$30 (and before that ~$60 for Field of Glory and the Rise of Rome expansion) I paid for the Storm of Arrows expansion with its measly 5 scenarios is the last $30 Slitherine will ever get out of me.

OTOH, my other Matrix purchases are among the best gaming dollars I ever spent.

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Post #: 44
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 10:30:50 PM   
t001001001

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline 		The developer should've stayed out the price argument...his curt "we're happy with sales and the price will not be falling" statement was an "in yer face" comment and just made me dig my heals in


He's explaining to you that retailers generally do not discount products that are already selling well.


(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 45
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:03:28 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I guess I just wished I could understand why you don't want MORE shoppers in your store. I've seen it so many times over my lifetime these NICHE HOBBY SHOPS open up and close in the middle of the night. They never survive because they are like a horse with blinders on and focus on ONE THING. So now my question is why don't you do like Paradox and Strategy First and even Stardock and BRANCH OUT into other avenues so you can open your doors to "everyone" instead of just your niche friends and family? Remember KayBee toy stores? How about M.E. Moses?(I used to get my toy army men from there in 100pc packages) Gibson's Discount Centers?

Also I never see that newletter in my email that's what I'm talking about when I say news LETTER. (key word being letter) An EMAIL to me about an upcoming sales or promotion would be nice. I get Slitherines every single month.




While I don't think everything Matrix Games is golden, I am more or less very happy they have almost nothing in common with Paradox and Strategy First.

Frankly I won't even waste time running the crud from Paradox and Strategy First for free.

Matrix Games is now a decade old. I think David is likely making enough proper choices to remain in business. It's not an easy business I am sure. Joining forces with Slitherine almost made me jump up and down for joy. The two best operations joining was very cool news.

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Post #: 46
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:30:08 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		here is a quote from the other thread,its a good article that realley supports what Eric has mentioned and regarding this thread "Best-sellers notwithstanding, videogames once had economics similar to book publishing or music publishing, and now they don't. Now they have economics similar to movie publishing, where you have "blockbusters" aimed at mass audiences, and "made for TV" and "B" movies aimed at niches. The result is that the number of genres that can be supported with high-end product collapses. If you want to make specific niches, you can't develop high-end games. If you want to make high-end games, you have to develop for the widest possible audience".Good article.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 47
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:30:57 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Another interesting quote that relates to this thread "Let's assume that the publisher has a net margin of 20% of the retail price, after paying the developer, console manufacturer and retailer their cuts. Let's also assume that the marketing budget of a game is always equal to the development budget, and assume an average $50 price point over the life of a game. What results?



•1994: 4th gen videogames had to sell to 16,000 customers to break even
•1999: 5th gen videogames had to sell to 80,000 customers to break even
•2004: 6th gen videogames had to sell to 400,000 customers to break even
•2009: 7th gen videogames had to sell to 2,000,000 customers to break even"

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 48
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:48:41 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Yet another quote its speaking of console game development price.I assume it costs a lot less to develop pc wargames,but Im not sure."All game developers, and even most gamers, are aware that it costs more to create a videogame for the latest generation of consoles than it took for prior generations. But how much more? While hard data is hard to come by, a variety of estimates are available on the web that support the following approximations:


•1994: 4th generation premium videogames cost $200,000 to develop and retailed for $60-$80
•1999: 5th generation premium videogames cost $1,000,000 to develop and retailed for $40-$60
•2004: 6th generation premium videogames cost $5,000,000 to develop and retailed for $40-$60
•2009: 7th generation premium videogames cost $25,000,000 to develop and retailed for $60-$80".

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 49
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:54:01 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

I guess I just wished I could understand why you don't want MORE shoppers in your store. I've seen it so many times over my lifetime these NICHE HOBBY SHOPS open up and close in the middle of the night. They never survive because they are like a horse with blinders on and focus on ONE THING. So now my question is why don't you do like Paradox and Strategy First and even Stardock and BRANCH OUT into other avenues so you can open your doors to "everyone" instead of just your niche friends and family? Remember KayBee toy stores? How about M.E. Moses?(I used to get my toy army men from there in 100pc packages) Gibson's Discount Centers?

Also I never see that newletter in my email that's what I'm talking about when I say news LETTER. (key word being letter) An EMAIL to me about an upcoming sales or promotion would be nice. I get Slitherines every single month.




While I don't think everything Matrix Games is golden, I am more or less very happy they have almost nothing in common with Strategy First.

Frankly I won't even waste time running the crud from Strategy First for free.



After looking through their gamelist,I didnt realley find anything that resembled a "wargame".Most titles at Strategy First seemed to be RTS or arcade.Kind of unfair to compare them to a company like Matrix that pretty much only publishes "wargames".

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 50
RE: Business Model - 7/14/2010 11:55:47 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		IIRC Strategy First was a publisher of first Europa Universalis

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Post #: 51
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 12:29:38 AM   
brent_2

 

Posts: 1990
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From: Rheingau, Hesse, DE
Status: offline 		Steam?

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Post #: 52
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 2:40:11 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		With all the Matrix vs. Slitherine talk in this thread. 
Do you actually realize that Matrix and Slitherine businesses are now merged?

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Post #: 53
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 2:48:45 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
CWIE? Is their board down for you?



Yes has been down for 2 days.

-

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Post #: 54
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 4:27:41 AM   
RangerX3X


Posts: 399
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Status: offline 		I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this discusion. While I still have a very difficult time accepting a $79.99 price tag for a digital download only, I have to accept what my purchase history has been.

The last four games that I bought brand new were: DCS: Black Shark, Arma II, Battlestations Pacific & Battlefied Bad Company 2 for $199.96 plus tax total.

Of those four games, the only one that I play with any regularity is Arma II. So in effect, I have basically pissed away $150 on games that I no longer play.

Looking at it in that light, I think I will wait for the demo for BFTB to come out before taking that step. However, I still can't get my arms around what Matrix is charging for COTA, a game that has been out for a couple of years now.

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Post #: 55
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 4:39:15 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Ain't no thing as stupidly expensive as a diamond for a bride but damn if we don't go along with it. Some guys more than once...

They were just industrial rocks until DeBeers convinced a woman that they were worth something...

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Post #: 56
RE: Business Model - 7/15/2010 4:42:12 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerX3X
Looking at it in that light, I think I will wait for the demo for BFTB to come out before taking that step. However, I still can't get my arms around what Matrix is charging for COTA, a game that has been out for a couple of years now.


Just remember that the developers need to eat a decent meal. Panther games (HTTR / BFTB / COTA) don't have a large game portoflio and a pipeline of future software like EA or Ubisoft to keep the money flowing in. With a limited game portfolio that is not even mass market, they need all the money they can get. I'm wondering if Panther game developers have a day job (I hope they have because I can't see how they can make a living out of these games). Maybe the casual game developers for the iPhone are making more money...

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Post #: 57
RE: Business Model - 7/16/2010 12:09:52 AM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline 		Well, thought I understand that their is a niche market ( and definitively if a game is selling why go on sales?). The problem is that I am buying games for leisure and their is an upper price I won't pay however good the game is (about 50 euros). It would be different if I bought them for proffesionnal use ( where I want realism at top to back up research result or real plan checking). The problem with digital retail is that you cannot bring back the game if it does not fit your need (I think a bout WitP) and it is a problem for very expensive game.

I remind too that when I was a child high price for a game was an incentive to pirate it.I have been able to buy the games I wanted only once I started to work. So if we consider that most player are high school and University students then less price might bring more buyers.

For pricing, I think the real problem with matrix is when game they are distributing games that are at lower prices on others shop (I think to War in America, World war one...) They are losing money when they dont follow the market.

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Post #: 58
RE: Business Model - 7/16/2010 12:25:30 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Speaking of business models, CC community is still waiting for the patch for CCMT that will fix all the problems and will finally add the "# Accurate and realistic modern equipment modelling" and "Accurate depiction of modern tactical warfare and its challenges" that were promised in the product description.

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
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Post #: 59
RE: Business Model - 7/16/2010 12:32:56 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Speaking of business models, CC community is still waiting for the patch for CCMT that will fix all the problems and will finally add the "# Accurate and realistic modern equipment modelling" and "Accurate depiction of modern tactical warfare and its challenges" that were promised in the product description.

According to the CCMT forum,the patch was announced April 2009.Please be patient.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 60
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