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Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/26/2010 11:09:19 PM

JoMc67

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Joined: 7/21/2007
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Campaign Series - House Rules

I have always disliked how the Campaign Series handles its game system...There simpy isn't one.
There are no phases or sub-phases that you would find in Platoon level board or table-top games...Panzer leader-blitz, and Command Decision comes to mind.

As it stands, a player that controls one or more battalions can simply choose one Platoon at a time to move and shoot, find the combat results, and then decide how to procede with the next platoon, and so forth.
This simply gives a player way to much flexability in a 6 minute turn.

Below is a tenative system to make the game atleast 50% historically accurate, but unfortunately, not the 100% I am looking for ( I believe the current system to be about 25% accurate on its best day ).
I am in the process of play-testing each phase below to see what phase should be where, and why.

- First; There is a Movement phase in where all units move. However, if you enter an enemy C&C ( a unit has a C&C range that consist of all hexes surrounding it ) you must either stop and do nothing, or move into Close Combat normally, or just fire. However, enemy non-combat unit such as empty MCs, Trucks, etc, do not have a C&C and thus the above does not apply.

- Second; Call in Arty & Air Strikes.

- Third; Fire Phase.

- Forth; Second Movement Phase. If already in the C&C of enemy unit, you can only move within that enemys C&C ( the surrounding 6 hexes or Close Assault enemy hex ).
However, next turn all units can move freely on the battlefield.

- Fifth; Second Fire Phase ( if any remaining points left over to fire again ).

I am also in the process of looking into Sub-phases, Target Priority, Orders, and couple others.

Play-test the above in the sequence giving and let me know if you need any clairification. Then comment, and suggest other ideas to make for a good set of House Rules.
I am also looking for a group of players who will help me develop a set of these or other House Rules that can exchange ideas on a weekly basis. If this interests you, please contact me at:
i r i s h w o p 6 7 at a o l dot com

Joseph

* Ultimately, I like to see the Campaign Series have you plot movement, and then plot fire for each Platoon, then click the turn to see the action unfold...Like in the Combat Mission IGOUGO system. Unfortunately, this would require a complete overall of the current Campaign Series.

< Message edited by JoMc67 -- 8/29/2010 2:49:59 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 1:50:57 AM

V22 Osprey

Posts: 1593
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From: Corona, CA
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It's a game.

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 12:04:56 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67

Campaign Series - House Rules

I have always disliked how the Campaign Series handles its game system ( Its ok, just call me a Campaign Series Heritic ).
There simply are no phases or sub-phases that you would find normally in Platoon level board or table-top games...Panzer leader-blitz, and Command Decision comes to mind.

Ultimately, I like to see the Campaign Series have you plot movement, and then plot fire for each Platoon, then click the turn to see the action unfold...Like in the Combat Mission IGOUGO system. Unfortunately, this would require a complete overall of the current Campaign Series.
Joseph
i r i s h w o p 6 7 at a o l dot com

Sigh. Another "wish" to take CS and "transform" it into another game system.

Then; of course, it is no longer CS... but "something" else.

Why not just play Combat Mission, Panzerblitz, Panzer Leader, and Command Decision... instead of destroying Campaign Series... and trying to "rebuild" it into a totally different game?

< Message edited by mwest -- 8/27/2010 12:06:17 PM >

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to JoMc67)

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 12:07:48 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
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From: Clarksville, VA.
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Play with any House Rules you wish... but not sure you'll get too many players who are willing to keep up with at least five phases + sub-phases + ALL your extra proposed rules per turn!

Look's like it's back to the "trying to force a square peg through a round hole" mentality... I never understood this "reasoning" with players.

< Message edited by mwest -- 8/27/2010 12:49:03 PM >

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to kool_kat)

Post #: 4

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 3:48:22 PM

JoMc67

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline

Mike�s Wish List for MCS 1.05 Update

All Games

Double Time � Select Reachable Hexes to graphically illustrate all the hexes that the currently-selected unit can reach utilizing Double Time BEFORE committing the unit to Double Time. Toggle (off or on)

Unit Bases � Program �remembers� last Unit Bases setting toggle (off or on) for all 3D unit icons on any 3D map view.

Bunkers and Pillboxes � Have a �front� facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc � front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Special Concealment (Anti-Tank Guns) Fog of War � Anti-tank guns smaller than 57mm, reduce 50% maintaining concealment when they fire or move to 35%.

Save Game Warning � Eliminate this warning from the PBeM Command Report.

Extreme Assault � Compromise on a setting �harder� then the pre-1.03 assault rules and �easier� then the 1.04 update. Extreme Assault, in its current form, reduces games to a Direct Fire �slug fest� and essentially eliminates the Assault option for players.

Variable Visibility � Eliminate this optional rule.

Reduce the 5% chance of mortars disabling AFVs to 3%. (I think these are the correct percentages?)

Rising Sun

Caves � Have a �front� facing. Units inside these structures may only fire in the front arc � front hex + 2 adjacent hexes out to their weapons range.

Regards, - MW

Wow...Thats Interesting coming from players like you who want a wish list.�

Report | Post #: 274

< Message edited by JoMc67 -- 8/27/2010 3:54:55 PM >

(in reply to kool_kat)

Post #: 5

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 4:34:05 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
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From: Clarksville, VA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67

Wow...Thats Interesting coming from players like you who want a wish list.�

I never stated I was opposed to a "wish list." I am opposed to "wishes" that fundamentally alter CS into a completely different game system. Your "wishes" are essentially to create a new game engine and design... that goes beyond a game patch.

Again, if you enjoy multiple turn phases... there are other PC games that utilize that system?

Not all "wishes" are created equal?

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to JoMc67)

Post #: 6

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 5:17:42 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67

Campaign Series - House Rules

I have always disliked how the Campaign Series handles its game system...There simpy isn't one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
There are no phases or sub-phases that you would find in Platoon level board or table-top games...Panzer leader-blitz, and Command Decision comes to mind.

Correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
As it stands, a player that controls one or more battalions can simply choose one Platoon at a time to move and shoot, find the combat results, and then decide how to procede with the next platoon, and so forth. This simply gives a player way to much flexability in a 6 minute turn.

Correct. CS is a tactical-level game. You want to reduce flexibility (player choice) in the current CS game system?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
Below is a tenative system to make the game at least 50% historically accurate, but unfortunately not the 100% I am looking for ( I believe the current system to be about 25% accurate on its best day ).

What are the sources of your historical accuracy statements? Combat experience? Game design experience? Software design experience? Other?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
* Ultimately, I like to see the Campaign Series have you plot movement, and then plot fire for each Platoon, then click the turn to see the action unfold...Like in the Combat Mission IGOUGO system. Unfortunately, this would require a complete overall of the current Campaign Series.

Correct. Your proposal is for a complete new game engine and design... that goes beyond a game patch. And, as your original post stated... there are other PC and table top games that utilize turn phases... why not play those game systems?

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to JoMc67)

Post #: 7

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 6:31:06 PM

JoMc67

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67

Campaign Series - House Rules

I have always disliked how the Campaign Series handles its game system...There simpy isn't one.

Incorrect. "Combat and Movement all take place in one turn. Each unit is allocated 100 Action Points at the start of its turn, displayed in its Info Box. Every hex entered and every shot fired consumes a certain amount of AP from the selected unit's current total of APs. Once a unit has expended all of its AP (or; more commonly, has so few AP remaining that it is unable to perform any action) it will have to wait until its next turn begins to have its AP returned to 100 (and thus be able to perform more actions)." p 27 East Front II Players Guide.

There are an additional 240 pages that explain the CS game system in more detail.
_____________________________

Regards, - MW

Im sorry, but that is hardly considered a real game system, and your simply missing the obvious point.

And wither using my House Rules or a game patch, both are not intended to�alter a game system, but to simply improve upon it.

However, like I stated, a complete overhaul of CS would be needed to change the game system...But, I digress.

< Message edited by JoMc67 -- 8/27/2010 7:10:42 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 7:34:49 PM

MrRoadrunner

Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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Please. No fundamental changes to a game that is fun to play and has stood the test of time.

I'd rather wish to have monkeys fly out of my butt than to make any of the changes that you wish for.

House rules can be house rules ... in your house. I do not want to buy your house. Nor, would I agree to play a game against you using your house rules.

Find another game to ruin.

I wish, for CS, that you found another game to play that suits you and your house rules.

Do these count as wishes too?

RR

_____________________________

�The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.�
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 8:28:06 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
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From: Clarksville, VA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
Im sorry, but that is hardly considered a real game system, and your simply missing the obvious point.

Please enlighten us... what is the obvious point?

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to JoMc67)

Post #: 10

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 8/27/2010 10:16:23 PM

andym

Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
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Surely,if you change the game system,it ceases to be JTCS?I have played games with phases,sub phases,twin movement phases,and they had one thing in common.They ALL sucked.I like JTCS as it is,its simple,nice and easy to play,understand and has stood the test of time.All these so called "phase" can be played with JTCS as it stands(God knows why though).The thing i love about JTCS is that you can jump in and out of a game so easily,and pick up where you left off,even after weeks of not playing.Warfare can be as simple or as complex as you want to make it.I.e...Big Stick beats Small Stick.or......................A coy of 3rd Battn of 123rd Marines currently out of supply,can only fire in odd numbered combat phases,unless accompanied by a Command Unit,or Supply unit with in supplt range,morale chack needed after being fired upon.Resupply can only take place in the Resupply sub phase 2 turns after a 100% morale check AND Command effect check....................................

Get my Drift?

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Press to Test...............Release to Detonate!

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/3/2010 1:18:44 AM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mwest

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoMc67
Im sorry, but that is hardly considered a real game system, and your simply missing the obvious point.

Please enlighten us... what is the obvious point?

I guess we are never going to be "enlightened" by the OP?

How sad?

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to kool_kat)

Post #: 12

RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/3/2010 6:20:33 PM

marcbarker

Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline

thi is interesting but jtcs is a good game. Regardless of flaws or precieved flaws it is by far the best game on the market.

_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/4/2010 11:54:58 AM

tide1527

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/6/2009
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I guess I'm just an old warhorse stuck in the past. I like CS the way it is and the direction the Cabal

that does the work on it is taking. I'm not big on phase this or phase that or what the phase is this. Nope I'd have to say leave as is but thanks for your input sir and feel free to jump on in any time even if the feed back is not what you expect

< Message edited by tide1527 -- 9/4/2010 11:56:55 AM >

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/4/2010 4:46:59 PM

Borst50

Posts: 261
Joined: 4/1/2008
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i am forced to agree in principle. CS is for the most part good the way it is. Yes some things needs to be tweeked...but thats what the updates/patches try to correct.

I am thinking...its all a matter of perception here. Some wish to have the game altered....some do not. I am on the side of leaving the game stand as it is.

For 16 years...give or take...CS has been around and withstood the test of time. And its still POPULAR. From Talonsoft to Matrix...(with maybe a small side trip to obscurity for a little while). I am thinking the game is here to stay. I for one like that.

so for those of you who wish to change the game into some un recognizible entity...

. play a game more suited to your own tastes.

please note: the above editorial is my own personal opinion. I stand by it.

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/4/2010 5:54:15 PM

scottintacoma

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And even in obscurity, it neverr left my hard drive.

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/8/2010 12:36:40 PM

TJD

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FWIW, I'll add my voice to the conservatives here. JTCS is a classic. A classic by definition needs no fundamental revision. It has proven itself to be of lasting and unique value just as it is. I'm happy for tweaks and fixes but the fundamentals should be left alone.

Tim

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RE: Campaign Series - House Rules - 9/8/2010 11:05:06 PM

V22 Osprey

Posts: 1593
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From: Corona, CA
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Yes I understand the want to add new features, though I think that what happened with the 1.03 update and extreme assault shows that we SHOULD NOT change the core game mechanics. As others have said, once you change the core mechanics it is no long JTCS. Also tyeing into to my first comment, it's just game. Come on guys.

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