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RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:01:50 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		after resetting my all ACKs it all became clearer even a slow CONVOY 2 hexs from CV group that was on station at sea with 15 Jakes on search...my jaw hit the ground...were did he come from...i sank 10 ships...no way i am going back to search Acks...if that were a CV group on standed search i would have been swiming.

Tigercub

< Message edited by tigercub -- 9/18/2010 4:03:37 AM >

_____________________________


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(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 61
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 5:33:36 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

after resetting my all ACKs it all became clearer even a slow CONVOY 2 hexs from CV group that was on station at sea with 15 Jakes on search...my jaw hit the ground...were did he come from...i sank 10 ships...no way i am going back to search Acks...if that were a CV group on standed search i would have been swiming.

Tigercub


When you have search running, anything with 4 hexes is automatically found. So, they obviously were not 2 hexes away the turn before. But I understand that you wanted your search to see them much farther out.

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 62
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 6:10:32 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		yes like 8-10 hexs the turn before.

Tigercub

< Message edited by tigercub -- 9/18/2010 6:11:42 AM >

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 63
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 3:52:04 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		guys,

my point is this -

The Devs have worked hard in much earlier patches to give us the (z) see search arc capability - was actually a great selling point in the game and the reason why I purchased it when I did.

This flaw in the game mechanics makes this now defunct too..... for me an in game function "Game Killer" to quote cap and gown.

In response to Stuman - given the price of the game, I would expect Matrix to be right on top of it and should Rader's work prove valid, I would expect them to show him a token of their appreciation in some way.

Reading the forums post previously, the amount of people that have abandoned search arcs for this very reason highlights the issue as not just a mere annoyance.

Rader - well done for highlighting the problems in game

(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 64
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:13:11 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Well I was never one to set arcs for TF search planes, but its starting to seem like even setting the arcs for LB air is a bad idea.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 65
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:18:21 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

guys,

my point is this -

The Devs have worked hard in much earlier patches to give us the (z) see search arc capability - was actually a great selling point in the game and the reason why I purchased it when I did.

This flaw in the game mechanics makes this now defunct too..... for me an in game function "Game Killer" to quote cap and gown.

In response to Stuman - given the price of the game, I would expect Matrix to be right on top of it and should Rader's work prove valid, I would expect them to show him a token of their appreciation in some way.

Reading the forums post previously, the amount of people that have abandoned search arcs for this very reason highlights the issue as not just a mere annoyance.

Rader - well done for highlighting the problems in game


ade670 - Are you aware that AE was developed by a bunch of individuals that are not directly associated with Matrix? These individuals have other lives and other jobs, but volunteered to spend their time working on AE. If you want to play the game that Matrix is responsible for, play WITP. AE is a major modification of WITP by players that are for the most part, just like us.

In regards to the search arc matter....I have been setting search arcs for all of my planes set to Naval Search in my PBEM with Cuttlefish. After reading this thread, I decided to turn all of them off. It was like turning on a light in a dark room. There is no doubt in my mind that something isn't working quite right.

_____________________________

"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 66
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:33:06 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Considering phenomenal support this game has, I have no doubts that this issue will be checked and if need of remedy, it will be remedied.

AE is work of love for massive strategy games and not only commercial venture. Let's not burn Devs out by telling that game is crap. Everyone playing it knows that AE is great and remarkably "bug-free". Search arc (if they are not working) are addition to game and hardly "game killer".


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 67
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:34:32 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		Charbroiled,

No I wasn't aware that this game wasn't directly devloped by Matrix - I was obviously taken in by Matrix advertising it on their home page under "our latest releases".

When you say volunteered do you mean - without pay??

So where did my hard earned bucks go when I purchased the game?? - not by chance to matrix

Ade

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 68
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:47:30 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

Charbroiled,

No I wasn't aware that this game wasn't directly devloped by Matrix - I was obviously taken in by Matrix advertising it on their home page under "our latest releases".

When you say volunteered do you mean - without pay??

So where did my hard earned bucks go when I purchased the game?? - not by chance to matrix

Ade


Just FYI, a lot of the games hosted here at Matrix are developed by 'garage' teams who volunteer their time for the love of the game they work on.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 69
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:51:40 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

When you say volunteered do you mean - without pay??

So where did my hard earned bucks go when I purchased the game?? - not by chance to matrix



I'm not completely sure of this, but I think they each received a Matrix T-shirt.


_____________________________

"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 70
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 4:53:55 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		so,

why the high price tag?

ade

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 71
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 5:08:00 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

Charbroiled,

No I wasn't aware that this game wasn't directly devloped by Matrix - I was obviously taken in by Matrix advertising it on their home page under "our latest releases".

When you say volunteered do you mean - without pay??

So where did my hard earned bucks go when I purchased the game?? - not by chance to matrix

Ade


Come on, when was game of this scale without bugs etc.?

We don't even know if it's bug or what yet. Looks to me like it'd a bug, but we don't know yet. Those have been squashed in no time by Devs, who are Henderson Field Designs, who were avid WitP players deciding they had programming skills to make AE and publish it via Matrix.

Little bit of patience, game has been out for almost an year and this was picked up very recently. Realistically, it'll take Devs for about month minimum to check it, track the reason, fix it..and test it works.

It's not "Game Killer". It's additional feature requested by players..and it may or may not work as designed. Until it is confirmed and if needed, fixed, do not use Search Arcs.

Game killer, not.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 72
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 5:40:21 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		High production costs (manual for instance), strong and very well maintained support, free forum, ongoing development with FREE Updates, relatively small customer base => seemingly high price tag



_____________________________

WitP/AE
1.7.11.26b
Data base changes by Andy Mac October 16, 2012
Scen #1 Allied vs AI Level Hard Daily Turns
Art Mods by TomLabel and Reg
Topo Map by chemkid

WitW / Torch
1.01.37 - 1.01.44 beta

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 73
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 5:53:31 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

guys,

my point is this -

The Devs have worked hard in much earlier patches to give us the (z) see search arc capability - was actually a great selling point in the game and the reason why I purchased it when I did.

This flaw in the game mechanics makes this now defunct too..... for me an in game function "Game Killer" to quote cap and gown.

In response to Stuman - given the price of the game, I would expect Matrix to be right on top of it and should Rader's work prove valid, I would expect them to show him a token of their appreciation in some way.

Reading the forums post previously, the amount of people that have abandoned search arcs for this very reason highlights the issue as not just a mere annoyance.

Rader - well done for highlighting the problems in game

Wait, you bought the game because they added the Z button for arcs ?

_____________________________



(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 74
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 6:04:21 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		not entirely,

I was playing on a 'trial' version available via the internet and I liked it so much that when the upgrades started flowing -around about the time the (Z)view search arcs feature came into play, I decided to make a purchase.

Good ole 'trial versions'

Ade ; )

oh, and in the meantime, to all my opponents in current games - I am setting all my search arcs 180 degrees out due to all search planes in WITP-AE being fitted with x1000 rear view mirrors !!



< Message edited by ade670 -- 9/18/2010 6:08:06 PM >

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 75
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 6:44:15 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

not entirely,

I was playing on a 'trial' version available via the internet and I liked it so much that when the upgrades started flowing -around about the time the (Z)view search arcs feature came into play, I decided to make a purchase.



There has never been any "trial" or "demo" versions out of this game. I hope you are not implying you have been playing pirated version of the game?

That would be both quite ironic and would bring on you total scorn of Witp/AE community.


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 76
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 6:48:04 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		nothing implied buddy,

the fact remains My hard earned bucks are now in the pockets of the devs and matrix - hopefully that earns me the right to say - this game is great except ....

1. search arcs
2. radar
3. commander retings
4. air war
5. supply
6. fragments
7. 4E bombers
8. game needs too many house rules to make it a balanced PBEM

Ade

< Message edited by ade670 -- 9/18/2010 6:53:20 PM >

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 77
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 6:51:36 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

that has got to be the gayist fast reply quote ever

lol


I do have suspicion, that your days on Matrix Forums are numbered now, boyo.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 9/18/2010 6:52:00 PM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 78
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 7:35:37 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

nothing implied buddy,

the fact remains My hard earned bucks are now in the pockets of the devs and matrix - hopefully that earns me the right to say - this game is great except ....

1. search arcs
2. radar
3. commander retings
4. air war
5. supply
6. fragments
7. 4E bombers
8. game needs too many house rules to make it a balanced PBEM

Ade


Does this mean you did obtain a pirated version to play or are you just lying?

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 79
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:02:27 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		My point was - I purchased the game on the basis of the wilco attitude of the designers to put out fixes and upgrades - the one upgrade that really sold it to me was the search arc function - Great ability which really engaged my micro management fun

Slightly annoyed that this has most likely been broken since the game was released - how many people now look back at there games and think about the hours wasted setting all this up - I do

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 80
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:02:41 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Considering the economy of scale that kicks in any time you manufacture a product, I believe the price of this game is quite reasonable considering there are not millions of kids bugging their parents to buy them a copy. We are a small group of grognards and I for one am thankful that there are enough of us willing to pay a premium to make this possible.
I am confident that your questions will be addressed sooner or later. That doesn't mean you will be happy with the answer

< Message edited by Ranger5355 -- 9/18/2010 8:06:06 PM >

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 81
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:22:49 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

Guys

I'm a little frustrated with the lack of definitive answers from matrix on this .

Let's just keep things simple - forget altitude forget these rather spurious settings - search arcs dont work as intended or as described in the game manual - that = broken - please fix

Whilst I enjoy this game I'm increasingly of the opinion it is far from polished
On the information in the manual I have acted to set search arcs in my games - I want my valuable hours back !!!!

Thanks for the hard work so far highlighting this - the devs should send u a cheque



I had the honor of being one of the researchers for Japanese aircraft parameters and playtesters and I can tell you that the devs are probably one of the most dedicated groups in all of gaming. They took on this project with no expectation of pay or reward other than the joy of working on a game they love. The game has its flaws to be sure and there were a lot of things they wanted to do but couldn't due to the limitations of the game engine.

The devs read this forum every day and I can assure you that every time a player finds a problem, real or imagined, it is looked at. It is verified and then a solution is determined if possible. Sometimes the solution requires a major rewrite. In that case, it probably won't happen any time soon. Sometimes it is a simple thing and gets fixed in the next patch. As far as search arcs go, player testing such as that performed by rader is invaluable to the devs in highlighting potential issues. I'm sure that the devs are already looking at it and trying to verify the issue through their own testing. Just remember, these guys have day jobs and they work on this game because they love it, not because they have to.

Either way, the devs have been extremely responsive to the needs of this community. Without them, we would still be playing WitP with all its warts. Finding and highlighting potential issues is not the problem but to keep harping on these guys is counterproductive. At least one dev has walked away due to the unwarranted and abusive criticism that some on this forum can generate.

And in case you didn't know it, Matrix is the publisher, not the developer. The developer is Henderson Field Games. If you can point to any other game of any kind where the devs are this involved, I sure would like to know. Or better yet, point to a wargame of this magnitude that is as well supported, as rich in detail and as compelling to play.

I've played this game and its predecessor, WitP since 2004. I play this game virtually every day through PBEM. That's 6 years for a lousy $150... a bit over $2 a month... one of the best investments I have ever made. How many games have you played in the last 6 years that now sit on the shelf?

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 82
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:47:04 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Wait, you bought the game because they added the Z button for arcs ?


And the cup-holder.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 83
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:50:05 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

My point was - I purchased the game on the basis of the wilco attitude of the designers to put out fixes and upgrades - the one upgrade that really sold it to me was the search arc function - Great ability which really engaged my micro management fun

Slightly annoyed that this has most likely been broken since the game was released - how many people now look back at there games and think about the hours wasted setting all this up - I do


You didn't answer the question. Are you a thief or not?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 84
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:51:39 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

not entirely,

I was playing on a 'trial' version available via the internet and I liked it so much that when the upgrades started flowing -around about the time the (Z)view search arcs feature came into play, I decided to make a purchase.

Good ole 'trial versions'

Ade ; )

oh, and in the meantime, to all my opponents in current games - I am setting all my search arcs 180 degrees out due to all search planes in WITP-AE being fitted with x1000 rear view mirrors !!




Iggy, iggy, iggy, iggy, iggy. Feed the green button, not the thieving trolls. Iggy.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 85
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 8:52:30 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		The answer is - I'm a perfectly legit paid up gamer !!!!

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 86
RE: Search arc statistical test - 9/18/2010 9:05:10 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		Since we're spit-balling here, waiting for some word from the devs (or not), I wonder if the results relate to what happens in the code after the first detection is accomplished under each type of search? Does a search arc mission stay on that "slice" for more time than it would if it hadn't detected anything, raising DL maybe, and thus doesn't accomplish all of the ordered arcs and misses the randomized chance to get the last one or two targets in the test array?? While a non-arc search just pings the detection and keeps on looking until it's out of time/ops points/whatever?

Do we know exactly what the courses and ranges the planes are actually covering in the code in both a detection and non-detection slice? Or are we assuming that, weather and ops loss permitting, the arced mission flies all of the ordered arcs? If this has been covered in the thread I apologize. But it seems as if, in the other times complex game mechanics have been questioned by players using set-up testing like this (naval gunfire penetration, pre-CAP flak, IJN ASW, high-altitude sweeps, etc.), even when there was a bug or two the actual under-the-hood calculations have always been far more complex than many players assumed from the test regime.

Which maybe raises a question for the historical-truth players in here--what "should" the code do with a naval search mission when a TF is detected? Stick on it or keep searching? A search mission that finds the KB should just push over to the next slice to look for sampans? In RL that plane would stick as long as it could, refine the base course and speed reports, and try to firm up ship IDs. Do we as players want an arc search to complete the ordered arc range come hell or high water, or not? I don't know which it does now, but I know which I'd like it to do.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/18/2010 9:08:06 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to rader)
Post #: 87
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 9:06:03 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

The answer is - I'm a perfectly legit paid up gamer !!!!


That wasn't the quesiton. One more try, then it's to the bit bucket for you.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 88
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 9:08:24 PM   
ade670


Posts: 68
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		the answer is there if you care to read it - or do you need an invoice number.

Ade

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 89
RE: Search by surface ships' floatplanes - 9/18/2010 9:09:46 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ade670

the answer is there if you care to read it - or do you need an invoice number.

Ade


Buh bye!

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to ade670)
Post #: 90
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