Slitherine

Stab./KG 3 until 3-43		1	JU88A			
I./KG 3		39	JU88A			
II./KG 3		19	JU88A			
III./KG 3		20	JU88A			
Stab./KG 4		1	He111			
I./KG 4		30	He111			
II./KG 4		31	He111			
III./KG 4 until 10-42		21	He111			
III./KG 26 until 2-42		8	He111			
Stab and I-III./KG27		68	He111			
IV./KG27 until 3-43		21	He111	# is for 1-43		
Stab and I./KG 28 until 12-41		no info	no info			
Stab./KG51 until 9-43		2	JU88A			
I./KG51 until 5-43		8	JU88A			
II.KG 51 until 5-43		36	JU88A			
III.KG 51		26	JU88A			
Stab and I-III./KG 53		73	He111			
Stab and I./KG 54 until 12-41		30	JU88A			
KG55 (no IV.Gruppe)		28	He111			
KG76 (no IV.Gruppe) until 11-42		32	JU88A			
KG77 (no IV.Gruppe) until 12-41		93	JU88A			
I./KG 100 from 8-42until 10-43		19	He111			
KG102 (with 2 gruppen only) from 6-43		no info	no info			

Stab./StG 1 until 10-43		3	JU87			
I./StG 1 from 6-43 until 10-43		32	JU87	# is for 6-43		
II.StG 1 until 10-43		42	JU87			
III./StG 1 until 10-43		47	JU87			
StG 2 until 10-43		54	JU87			
III./StG 3 from 6-43 until 10-43		35	JU87	# is for 6-43		
StG 77 until 10-43		88	JU87			
Sch.G 1 from 1-42		21Bf109e 21 HS123 16 HS129		Upgrades to FW190 4-43		
						
	Production					
Year	JU88A	HE111	JU87	HS123	HS129	DO217
1941	2146	950	500	None during war	7	20
1942	2270	1337	960		221	277
1943	2160	1405	1672		411	564

	Present on east front		# of aircraft 27-09-41		Type	Notes	
	JG3 		55		Bf109f		
	I.JG26 1-6 '43		34		FW190A	#of a/c for 1-43	
	JG27 untill 12 '43		103		bf109e/f		
	JG51		83		Bf109f		
	JG52		93		Bf109f		
	I.JG53 until 9-42 		37		Bf109f		
	JG54		113		Bf109f		
	II.JG77		32		bf109e		
							
	A full JG has 124 authorized a/c.						
	One Gruppe (e.g II.JG 77 has 40 authorized a/c.						
							
	Production						
Year	Bf109	FW190					
1941	2764	1850					
1942	2657	2171					
1943	6013	7488					

quote:

ORIGINAL: briantopp

Replacement surge should have happened on turn 50, along with all the pz battalions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: briantopp
- you'd do 1941 reinforcement units in lieu of 1% replacements in the replacement editor, just to be clear?
- may 1942 pzIVf2: so when does the pzivf1 start and stop?
- aar thread - good idea I was thinking of posting the "final" build (or at least, the reasonably-serviceable-willing-to-claim-its-a-finished-draft build) in a new thread and invite running comments.
- i basically feathered the newly-arriving divisions either (a) into "AGC reserve" if they are optional, or into armies that I thought would most likely be in most most desperate need of reinforcement (pzg2, notably). Could adopt a different policy just as easily
- i like the idea of spreading out the 1942 surge replacements so that the 1942 retooling is less abrupt, actually -- that's good. Would you do the same with the equipment?

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

quote:

... without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

I intend to answer this in more detail, but i need more figures in order to do so. In short, without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

I will open a new thread to address the larger concern here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

quote:

ORIGINAL: briantopp
- you'd do 1941 reinforcement units in lieu of 1% replacements in the replacement editor, just to be clear?
- may 1942 pzIVf2: so when does the pzivf1 start and stop?
- aar thread - good idea I was thinking of posting the "final" build (or at least, the reasonably-serviceable-willing-to-claim-its-a-finished-draft build) in a new thread and invite running comments.
- i basically feathered the newly-arriving divisions either (a) into "AGC reserve" if they are optional, or into armies that I thought would most likely be in most most desperate need of reinforcement (pzg2, notably). Could adopt a different policy just as easily
- i like the idea of spreading out the 1942 surge replacements so that the 1942 retooling is less abrupt, actually -- that's good. Would you do the same with the equipment?

-Not sure what you mean with the 1% replacements but I mean moving the turn were tank productions start from 1 to XX(not sure when it should be maybe January 1942) were the production was mostly allocated to the east front, before it Hitler held the majority back to form new units(as said I'm not sure when this stance ended).
Except a big load in October 1941(323) and one smaller in January 1942(159) the usual tank replacements in each month were damned low.



-sPzAbt653 numbers are right
IVf1 4-41 to 3-42
IVf2 3-42 to 5-42
also regarding the TOAW F2 covering also the G version

-Looking forward to the AAR thread I bet that gets very interesting.

-You could be right about the 2PG but on the other hand the German players knows there is a Russian offensive coming so I guess he won't let his flank so damned wide open like it happened back than, The 2. Armee could be used to old the front when 2PG is turning onto Moscow.

-Yes I would do the same with equipment, I guess similar to the attempt to recover the losses in soldiers the same was done with equipment but it took time to do so.


So and another minor stuff:
Should "2-T-panzer bn,SS-T 10th corps" & "2DR-panzer bn,SS-DasReich 2pzG" use Pz IVD? Those 2 are the only ones using it, maybe they should use the Pz IVE like the other tank units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

I intend to answer this in more detail, but i need more figures in order to do so. In short, without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

I will open a new thread to address the larger concern here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

I intend to answer this in more detail, but i need more figures in order to do so. In short, without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

I will open a new thread to address the larger concern here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

I intend to answer this in more detail, but i need more figures in order to do so. In short, without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

I will open a new thread to address the larger concern here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

With regards to the number of aircraft, I might say that it's more important to have casualties and air superiority correct. I say this because the Axis/Soviet loss ratio was pretty amazing, numbers that were disproportionate to any other conflict. Put another way, how many Soviet Aircraft would it take to equal one German Aircraft? If desired, I could take the time to provide turn by turn numbers from my current playtest, or I could send save files from specific turns to anyone that wanted to investigate.

I intend to answer this in more detail, but i need more figures in order to do so. In short, without Soviet figures there is no point to messing with the German ones and pretending to be closer to history.

I will open a new thread to address the larger concern here.

Shot 4 of 4

Hope this helps.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I think in this scenario that the German player will be shifting infantry units of 9th Army on a northwest axis to keep in contact with 16th Army, while taking advantage of the units being sent to 2nd Pz Group in order to help protect their ever extending right flank. 2nd Pz Group's northeast axis of advance also tends to squeeze the 4th Army out of the line, making their units available for deployment elsewhere. At least, that's what I've found works.

Pestilence:
I've never used this stuff so I don't know exactly how it works. I'm guessing (so that someone might verify or disprove) that if a pestilence value is set by event that it remains at that setting each turn until reset to another value. I would next guess that if it is set to a value and that value is never zero'd, that the value will remain for the duration of the scenario. That's a long way to get to the idea that my Germans are still suffering pestilence effects after the '41 winter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I think in this scenario that the German player will be shifting infantry units of 9th Army on a northwest axis to keep in contact with 16th Army, while taking advantage of the units being sent to 2nd Pz Group in order to help protect their ever extending right flank. 2nd Pz Group's northeast axis of advance also tends to squeeze the 4th Army out of the line, making their units available for deployment elsewhere. At least, that's what I've found works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: briantopp

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I think in this scenario that the German player will be shifting infantry units of 9th Army on a northwest axis to keep in contact with 16th Army, while taking advantage of the units being sent to 2nd Pz Group in order to help protect their ever extending right flank. 2nd Pz Group's northeast axis of advance also tends to squeeze the 4th Army out of the line, making their units available for deployment elsewhere. At least, that's what I've found works.

Pestilence:
I've never used this stuff so I don't know exactly how it works. I'm guessing (so that someone might verify or disprove) that if a pestilence value is set by event that it remains at that setting each turn until reset to another value. I would next guess that if it is set to a value and that value is never zero'd, that the value will remain for the duration of the scenario. That's a long way to get to the idea that my Germans are still suffering pestilence effects after the '41 winter.

I was assuming the opposite, and set up a pestillence event every winter turn for the first winter. I'll check and put in a pertillence 0 event if it isn't already there.

quote:

The Force Pestilence Level


This value represents a force’s vulnerability to disease losses, and is limited to the range 0 to 50. It sets a percentage of equipment lost by every unit in the force on every turn. Infantry, horse transport and cavalry equipment is lost at this rate, while all other types of equipment are lost at half the rate. Within each individual location, the losses are multiplied by:

Condition
/Pestilence Loss Multiplier

frozen, not snowy
1.1

frozen, showy
1.25

hot, not mud or marsh
1.1

hot, mud or marsh
1.25

unsupplied
1.25

seaborne land unit
1.25


These multipliers are cumulative. The worst cases are unsupplied frozen, snowy or unsupplied hot muddy locations, with a multiplier of 1.5625. If the overall force pestilence value were set at 3%, losses in the worst case situations would actually be 4.69% for infantry, cavalry and horse transport equipment, and 2.34% for all other types of equipment.

Half of infantry, cavalry, and horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All non-infantry, non-cavalry, non-horse transport equipment lost by units in supplied locations is sent to the replacement pool. All other pestilence losses are permanent.

This value should rarely be set above 5%, and in most cases should be lower. The default is 0%. This value may be set from the OOB editor Edit > Modify Current Force menu, or by use of the Force Pestilence (Pestilence 1, or Pestilence 2) event effects.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

B*gger... Either I did a bloody mistake or somehow ALL the objective tracks in my localized German/Russian version ALL disappeared! :/

Thanks for the info about how to check the integrity Telumar. Well, another session of copy and paste between two XML editor windows... It's woth it, I think.