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- 12/17/2000 7:39:00 AM   
Greg McCarty

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/15/2000
From: woodbury,mn,usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Captain: The Winter War is a finnish movie, with sub-titles in english. The movie was made in 1990. The subtitles do not detract from it. It is a very intense movie about the brutal struggle that occurred when the Russians invaded Finland in 1939. The Fins were at an incredible disadvantage with respect to weapons and manpower. The movie has some pretty horrific battle scenes and depicts very well the brutality of war in the trenches. Highly recommended and shouldnt be missed. I would venture a guess that it is the only movie on this subject matter. It is available through Movies Unlimited.
Also "Belle & Blade" out in New Jersey. There are a number of film web sites that specialise in these kinds of films at reasonable prices. ------------------ Greg. 37 mill AA... can suddenly ruin your day.

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Greg.

It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees.

--Zapata

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Post #: 31
- 12/18/2000 4:32:00 AM   
orc4hire

 

Posts: 149
Joined: 7/31/2000
Status: offline 		SPR was a decent movie, I thought; an amazing opening balancing an execrable ending. The absurd final battle scene aside, it was a very moving movie. BUT.... I recently watched 12 O'Clock High (my wife's Management class assigned it, of all things). SPR seems to have borrowed a lot of its structure from 12, but I think the older movie was the far superior of the two. There's only 1 battle scene, and it was released in 1948 so it doesn't have the visceral gore impact of SPR's battle scenes, but the punch is still there. 12 O'Clock High. Excellent movie.

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Post #: 32
- 12/18/2000 11:20:00 AM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		I wasn't going to say anything for a variety or reasons ...but it has been nagging at me ....i have only been shot at a few times most my experience is more along the lines of disarming things but that contraction of focus /time distortion/"get lost in a bubble" right at the beginning seemed real to me... the rest well ..... I know that when you are in charge and folks are shootin at ya or a charge didn't go off like it was supposed to...or some SOB comes up with some damn improvised bomb that ain't followin the rules and you have to deal with it you got to act like you know what yer doin and folks around ya act like they know what they are doin...but i learned to live with a deep and abiding craving for information about the immediate situation that is never available .... this to me is missing in dang near every war movie involving a combat situation or police movie or yer basic domestic firefighting residential structure situation ... i dunno maybe it is just me .... nobody ever seems to talk about this ....ya do it by the numbers ya follow SOP and yer mind just screams inside yer head the whole time ...

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"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

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Post #: 33
- 12/19/2000 4:46:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by orc4hire: SPR was a decent movie, I thought; an amazing opening balancing an execrable ending. The absurd final battle scene aside, it was a very moving movie. BUT.... I recently watched 12 O'Clock High (my wife's Management class assigned it, of all things). SPR seems to have borrowed a lot of its structure from 12, but I think the older movie was the far superior of the two. There's only 1 battle scene, and it was released in 1948 so it doesn't have the visceral gore impact of SPR's battle scenes, but the punch is still there. 12 O'Clock High. Excellent movie.
Don't be surprised, my college NROTC class got to see it, it was part of a discussion of leadership vs management. This was nearly 25 years ago, so hopefully they have gotten better training tools, considering how poorly the US Navy has done with some of their management decisions and the lack of leadership from above. thanks, John.

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Post #: 34
- 12/19/2000 6:31:00 AM   
max

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: placerville,ca us
Status: offline 		Another awsome part of the Movie was " when the tigers were comming and it mademy house tremble " i thought the sound of them rolling in from afar was excellent and erie all at the same time .... it really made you feel like the tanks were just monsters and there was no way you were gunna stop them ...

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Post #: 35
- 12/19/2000 6:57:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		"Memphis Belle" was indeed a far cry from the emotionally stirring scene of the General shaking out of control when trying to pull himself into the hatch of his B-17 at the end of "12 O'Clock HIgh" I saw that movie for the first time in 1949, at a movie theater in downtown Atlanta Ga as a lad of 11. I never forgot the impact it made on me even then. I do think, however, if one looks beyond the "Hollywoodishness" of some battles, a deeper message is given, one that is sometimes very profound. I think that is the case with all of SPR. However you view the battle for Ramelle itself as being unrealistic, the shattering of camaraderie (the Church tower and Sharpshooter Jackson being blasted to pieces in front of the Captain's eyes, the shame of Upham in the face of combat, the horror of wounded men being shot by a swiftly advancing enemy without mercy, the hopelessness of some situations as Miller fires off rounds from his .45 at the approaching Tiger....somehow I find a deeper message in all of that than the glitz of the battle itself. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited December 18, 2000).]

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 36
- 12/19/2000 9:38:00 AM   
orc4hire

 

Posts: 149
Joined: 7/31/2000
Status: offline 		Within the first few minutes of "12 O'Clock High" I understood why my wife's class wanted them to watch it. Interesting that the Navy used it... I see an Army Major has made a study of it as well. (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/English/janfeb98/bognar.htm) WB, I think you in particular may shake your head over this.... My wife is going back to school to finish her degree; we're both in our 30's. Well, they showed "12 O'Clock High" in class, then broke up into groups to discuss it and write a paper on it. Most of the kids thought _there was something wrong with the movie._ They'd never seen one in black and white before. And those special effects, those actual planes and combat footage, that just looked so fake.... and that general was so mean, yelling at those poor boys. (The AFROTC kid disagreed with that last assesement, at least, thank god.) Kids today.... SPR had it's moments, certainly, and the battle at Ramelle did too, but (and I admit I'm a very tough crowd; I get my movie reviews from www.mrcranky.com), but to me it was so flawed as to not do justice to the rest of the movie. Like fer' example, when Miller is explaining his battle plan, "We'll die all over them here, then die all over them there, then anybody who's left falls back to this side of the bridge and blows it up," my first thought was, "If I were that Sgt. I'd be saying, 'Hey Cap, how about we just go straight to plan B and blow the bridge first?'" And at the very end, when Miller is popping off rounds with his .45 at the Tiger and his plan has obviously failed, my first thought was, "Oh god, don't tell me Speilberg is going to have the cavalry ride over the hill and some deux ex machina fighter bombers blow up the tank now." Ten seconds later, boom, zoom, there's the cavalry. Sigh. Ramelle, I think, could have been done better, _should_ have been done better to live up to those first 15 minutes. Then again I may just be weird. The most memorable character, to me, is the German sniper in the middle of the movie. The guys in the Ranger squad, the nominally important characters, are all a blur to me, but that poor bastard's face, scared, exhausted, alone, but sticking to his post, that's the one I remember.

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Post #: 37
- 12/19/2000 10:50:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I would have to agree with you here, ORC, on the tactical blunder. Why not wait across the bridge since all the roads funneled into it and hit them there, with the option of blowing the bridge should they begin to cross it? That would have been my option, but then I was never faced with that kind of decision. Spielberg never wrote me about this . Oh well! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 38
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