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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/6/2011 8:51:19 PM   
Ebusitanus


Posts: 20
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: Ibiza, Spain
Status: offline 		This gives me flashbacks from the time I used to play GDW Europa series "Fire in the East" and then the primitive "War in the east" for PC which had Guderian´s face on the box.




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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/6/2011 9:11:08 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		War in the East is great game.It's a nice shift of focus on the land war. It's nice having land units being represented by a full counter with information than a little box with an X in the little bottom left or right hand corner of a hex like in WitP:AE. The graphics in WitE are nice, crisp, and modern looking. It actually *looks* and feels like game designed and released for 2011.

WitE and WitP:AE are the only 2 main games I play now, with some Counter Strike Source and WinSPWW2/MBT on the side.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 1/6/2011 9:12:48 PM >

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Post #: 62
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/6/2011 9:43:19 PM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is easier to learn to play WITE than WITP simply becouse naval and island hopping war is more complex in nature than land war.

Anyway both are great games.

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Post #: 63
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/6/2011 9:47:34 PM   
berto


Posts: 20708
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline 		I have no interest in the Russian Front, so for me it's WITP:AE hands down. In fact, I'm so much into it that I'm now playing both WITP and WITP:AE!

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Post #: 64
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 2:09:08 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

To amuse my (bored) self over the past week or so, I have been tracking the "Users viewing this topic" count for both the WITP:AE and the WITE fora. Interestingly, no matter the time of day (I have checked this several times daily, including overnight; I work nights), the ratio of WITE forum visitors to WITP:AE visitors is consistently about 3 to 2. That is, lately about 50% more people are visiting the WITE forum than the WITP:AE one.

Might we expect the WITE advantage to increase or decrease over time? Will WITE gain in relative popularity, or will interest in it slacken as it loses its "new kid on the block" status?


BTW, I agree with this. Once the excitement and shock of WitE being finally released calms I'm sure the WitE forum will die down significantly. Presently the only reason why the game has a ton traffic is the fact that it's at the top of the list and easy to get to. The original AE players will also come back considering of the people in the WitE have AE as well as WitE.



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Post #: 65
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 9:25:49 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I'm seeing more and more WITP players on the other side.

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Post #: 66
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 12:53:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Since it's a new and well-done game, that's to be expected. The question is whether it will have the legs that AE has.

It's great to see old-fashioned (so to speak) hex-based games still being produced. How fortunate are we that Matrix (and a few others) are still around? Opening a new hex-based war game reminds me of Christmas in the 1970s, when I got Avalon Hill's Blitzkrieg.

Eventually, somebody's going to go forward with a refined AE that does a more complete job of melding the oceanic parts with the ground war (ala WITE) so that we have something even more intoxicating, captivating, mesmerizing, and addicting. We'd all better be about 70 years old, divorced, and in good health. We'll have to renounce our children, citizenships (no jury duty!), personal hygiene, though. We'll become very strange but happy hermits.

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Post #: 67
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 12:55:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		P.S. And that version had better not have pilot training!

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Post #: 68
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 1:48:29 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I think I will wait till next Christmas

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 2:01:59 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Since it's a new and well-done game, that's to be expected. The question is whether it will have the legs that AE has.

It's great to see old-fashioned (so to speak) hex-based games still being produced. How fortunate are we that Matrix (and a few others) are still around? Opening a new hex-based war game reminds me of Christmas in the 1970s, when I got Avalon Hill's Blitzkrieg.

Eventually, somebody's going to go forward with a refined AE that does a more complete job of melding the oceanic parts with the ground war (ala WITE) so that we have something even more intoxicating, captivating, mesmerizing, and addicting. We'd all better be about 70 years old, divorced, and in good health. We'll have to renounce our children, citizenships (no jury duty!), personal hygiene, though. We'll become very strange but happy hermits.


Hey, that's me already (almost)!

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Post #: 70
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 2:04:32 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Both WitP and WitE are great games. I'd say East is slightly better as a game, it's easier to play, feels more modern and have better AI. And it doesn't take years to finish the war...

IMO WitP is more of a PBEM game, while WitE is an AI game.

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Post #: 71
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 3:54:29 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I bought WITE, but communists versus nazis doesn't really do much for me unfortunately.

Also I like to play with boats rather than deal with walls of Soviet rifle divisions.

I've tried to get into it but not managed it yet, maybe one day. Seems like a good game if you're in to what it offers, but like WITP you need the enthusiasm for the setting to get over the hump of the learning curve, and my enthusiasm for the Eastern Front is not, I fear, up to the task.

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 4:57:50 PM   
Jakerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I bought WITE, but communists versus nazis doesn't really do much for me unfortunately.

Also I like to play with boats rather than deal with walls of Soviet rifle divisions.

I've tried to get into it but not managed it yet, maybe one day. Seems like a good game if you're in to what it offers, but like WITP you need the enthusiasm for the setting to get over the hump of the learning curve, and my enthusiasm for the Eastern Front is not, I fear, up to the task.


I play war-games from strategic reasons I do not care much about witch side I play or ideology behind it. Eastern front is largest and most intense land war campaign ever happened on earth. I’m just glad that somebody is making great games about this subjects I do not need any other reasons to support projects like WITE.

I just hope it sells good so we can have more great games like that in the future... There is not too many hard core strategy game developers out here anymore at this era. Im just glad that somebody is making more complex games than Sims and other main stream stuffs.





< Message edited by Jakerson -- 1/7/2011 4:58:37 PM >

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Post #: 73
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 10:32:58 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Ships and planes will always be my first love but I bought WitE for a change of pace. I've dabbled in it and I like the fact that you can jump right in and play it without micromanaging(I like micromanaging ships). But i'm in the last year of a GC of WitP and I'm
afraid if I get into WitE too much I'll lose my train of thought. So it's on the back burner for me.

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Post #: 74
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/7/2011 11:52:01 PM   
RJL5188


Posts: 170
Joined: 11/27/2010
Status: offline 		war in the east is just plain awesome...best ground wargame around...

war in the pacific AE is also awesome...best air-naval game around...

not much else to say

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 5:13:48 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rjl518

war in the east is just plain awesome...best ground wargame around...

war in the pacific AE is also awesome...best air-naval game around...

not much else to say


Succinctly put.

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Post #: 76
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 1:25:18 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 986
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis
IMO WitP is more of a PBEM game, while WitE is an AI game.


Could you please explain? Isn't WITE good in PBEM?
Thanks.

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:01:30 PM   
whippleofd

 

Posts: 617
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		What I find unique about WiTE is that you can B&P it if you so desire to just push counters around or immerse yourself into the details. Because of the great control the player has in the handicapping system you can tailor it to suit your current gaming needs. It's like a small editor inside the game that I have not seen in other games.

For instance:
1) What if the Germans had better prepared logistically and not just for a 5 month war? You can test that out by changing the logistics level they receive, but leave everything else the same.
2) What if Stalin had not sacked all the competence out of the Army? Change the morale of the Russian units but leave everything else the same.

You can tailor the Morale level, fort build level, logistics level, transport level and admin level from a range of 400 to 25, with 100 being historic. You can let the HQ's run the support units, or you can micro-manage it to your AE content. And you can change these settings every turn if you wish.

All in all I find it a GREAT addition to my gaming library. Considering that for the past three years I've only played WiTP, AE and now WiTE; that makes it in exclusive company

Whipple

< Message edited by Whipple -- 1/8/2011 3:02:32 PM >

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Post #: 78
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:30:54 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

IMO WitP is more of a PBEM game, while WitE is an AI game.



I would say it's the other way around WitE: 222 turns the whole campaign: I did start a PBEM. But I always avoided a WitP PBEM (2, 3 years to finish?).

Said this, to me WitP is more attractive, mostly because you have naval / air / land operations. WitE is (as it should be) a massive continental war. I really like it though, now trying to stop the fascist hordes with my many Soviet hordes! Leningrad and Moscow will NOT surrender

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Post #: 79
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:32:28 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

Both WitP and WitE are great games. I'd say East is slightly better as a game, it's easier to play, feels more modern and have better AI. And it doesn't take years to finish the war...

IMO WitP is more of a PBEM game, while WitE is an AI game.



I strongly disagree. WITE will be, or it already is, the best PBEM game in current Matrix catalog in my opinion.

WITE features this new "semi automated" PBEM play over Slitherine server, and for such an early iteration I am surprised how well it works, and how easy it is to get into.

Also, WITE's biggest campaign is "mere" 225 turns long. For us who went thru 900+ turn PBEM campaigns in WITP this will be a child's play

Another thing - WITE actually offers a dozen or so very manageable smaller scenarios that are already very popular and extremely enjoyable in PBEM (in WITP, all everybody ever played was big campaign).

I played tons and tons and TONS of WITP PBEMs back in the day (some of you probably remember me), but in PBEM department WITE wins, hands down.

It also wins in the AI department as well, although reasons for this are quite simple and obvious - it's much easier for AI to play a two dimensional land campaign than it is to sensibly coordinate Pacific and Asian War.

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Post #: 80
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:39:24 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
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From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Also I like to play with boats rather than deal with walls of Soviet rifle divisions.



I love the Rifle divisions. You have sooo many You can really simulate what the Soviets did. Front armies AND several STRATEGIC RESERVES behind the front Ready to massacre your opponent

Not to mention the Tank Armies, Mechanised Corps... the Guards/Shock rifle divisions / armies...

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 1/8/2011 3:41:24 PM >

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:46:41 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Come on guys, YOU know you WANT it, stop fooling yourselves with "I love little boats" speak.... come over to the DARK SIDE (commies, nazis etc)

Panzer Divisions! Mechanised Corps! Hell yeah 

Now seriously, I don't understand how any wargamer can be NOT interested in biggest land campaign in history. I am completely different in that department, IF the game is good, I can be interested in ANY campaign that ever happened. In fact I got interested in Solomons' Campaign thanks to Uncommon Valor, prior to that game I thought it was utterly pointless campaign for both sides involved. (Which it probably was, but the game about it was SO GOOD and the rest is history.)

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Post #: 82
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 3:56:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'm interested in every campaign in WWII, but from a gaming standpoint I'm most interesed in the Pacific. WitP:AE takes all of my gaming time, so I won't be buying WITE, at least for a long, long, long time.

I've purchased three games since 2002: UV, WITP, and WITP:AE.

However, I am glad to see good hex-based games still being developed.

The only other game that held my interest was Advanced Third Reich - a sweeping strategic game that in a way reminds me of AE. They are entirely different animals from a complexity and scope standpoint, but both offer a vast strategic options.

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Post #: 83
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 4:27:24 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: invernomuto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis
IMO WitP is more of a PBEM game, while WitE is an AI game.


Could you please explain? Isn't WITE good in PBEM?
Thanks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

I would say it's the other way around WitE: 222 turns the whole campaign: I did start a PBEM. But I always avoided a WitP PBEM (2, 3 years to finish?).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


I strongly disagree. WITE will be, or it already is, the best PBEM game in current Matrix catalog in my opinion.



What I meant was that so far WitE AI have beated me every time, so I don't need human opponent...

I can't imagine myself playing WitP AE AI games anymore. I started one game vs. allied AI, but I ended it 8/42 because nothing have happened and lost interest. WitP really needs human opponent.

I'm sure War in the East is a great PBEM game, at the moment it's not PBEM game for me.

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Post #: 84
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 4:38:36 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

What I meant was that so far WitE AI have beated me every time, so I don't need human opponent...


Well, the game is just one month old, so you (and I) are not used to it yet, that's why the AI trashes you But us humans learn quickly: you will pretty soon beat the AI And the German AI is not that good (the Soviet is). I would have loved a WitP PBEM, but that was a huge commitment, er like getting married. WitE PBEM is like having a GF

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 1/8/2011 4:40:21 PM >

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 6:15:32 PM   
Zemke


Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

WitE looks like a beautiful, well-designed game that will do very, very well.

I doubt it will have the legs that WitP:AE has, though. A two dimensional (land/air) campaign just doesn't have the grip that a three deminsional (land/air/se) camapaign has.

Frankly, I'm surprised that WitE, a new game, only has a 3:2 lead on AE, which has been out for 1.5 years. In two years, I'll bet you AE will have a 3:1 lead over WitE.


I own and play both WitP:AE and the new WitE. As a wargamer, I cut my teeth on Eastern Front Operational games, bottom line, I love Eastern Front games.....BUT, WitP:AE is the best wargame ever made (IMO) because it is so immersive, I simple love it. Before WiTP came out, I never liked or cared about the Pacific Theater, and it took a friend several months of bagering me to try it, before I did. WitE looks good, is easier to get started, and in general is the best of it's kind.....but it does not have the immersion factors that WitP:AE has. There is no prodution management, no pilot management, and is pretty much land only, as the air model is questionable from reading the forums, (I never bother with the air in WitE). Now if the WitE system grows into a WiE (War in Europe), where there is production, naval, and a better air model, then it could have very long legs, but just comparing the two in the longevity department, I agree with Canoerebel, WitP:AE will out last WitE.

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RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 6:49:06 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		You need to care somehow, it being big in itself isn't so interesting.

How many people are begging for a game about the War of the Triple Alliance?


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Post #: 87
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 7:04:18 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

You need to care somehow, it being big in itself isn't so interesting.

How many people are begging for a game about the War of the Triple Alliance?



Hahaha, I didn't know this War of the Triple Alliance (Wikipedia was helpful). I guess that we (along with Churchill & Roosevelt) all agree: Germany First. Given that Germany was basically fought in the East (only 2 German divisions in North Africa), well, I guess that makes this front the MOST important front of WW2 (a front in which brutal battles, combats NEVER stopped since day one of the invasion). So to compare it with the [possibly] absurd War of the Triple Alliance is rather kafkaesque You are indeed correct though: you have to be interested about this massive and decisive conflict.

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Post #: 88
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 7:11:27 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
So to compare it with the [possibly] absurd War of the Triple Alliance is rather kafkaesque You are indeed correct though: you have to be interested about this massive and decisive conflict.


I would hazard that if you happened to be in South America the War of the Triple Alliance probably was more influential overall. Kinda like how the American Civil War was an irrelevance to me personally but it was very important to the United States.

Thing about the Eastern Front that gets me is the same sort of thing that people who arent interested in WW1 complain about. You have a billion men on one side, and a billion men on the other side, lined up in huge, dense lines, and they go it hard for a few years.

I just look at the WITE maps of masses and masses of counters all stacked up opposing each other at the front and think... ugh. It's just too dense. A massive, immobile mire. WITP doesn't really have that, except in China, which is the bit people tend not to like.

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Post #: 89
RE: WITE vs. WITP - 1/8/2011 7:34:05 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

You need to care somehow, it being big in itself isn't so interesting.

How many people are begging for a game about the War of the Triple Alliance?



I am not begging for it but would certainly play it if it's well done!

In fact, when I bought Paradox Victoria 2 one of the first things I did was to pick Paraguay - Vic 2 being one of the rare games that give you option of playing all sorts of obcscure small countries - and try my hand at fighting ALL of my neighbors.

I failed super-miserably

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Post #: 90
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