Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Updated - Master List of Issues

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> RE: Updated - Master List of Issues Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/19/2010 6:47:35 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Got it - thanks. I've pulled back to Tikvin in my game - nice gain for the AI ;)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 31
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/19/2010 10:08:38 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

You can cycle through units, . and , does it.


No, those keys cycle through the whole OOB, not the units in a single stack. So, you jump to another hex altogether when you press '.' or ','.

You probably need to look at a few UI control examples in some of the other games of this type cited to understand the point being made by various players.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 32
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/24/2010 7:34:01 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		To address the Axis AI's failure to garrison captured cities, I suggest the following 'quick fixes':

1. Automatically generate a permanently fixed garrison in each city captured.

2. Reduce the movement points for stranded or pocketed Soviet units to zero after 1 turn, to remove the temptation for the Soviet human player to re-take captured cities.

As an additional bit of historical flavour, if not already present, add a random 'Warsaw rising' event that triggers from Summer 1942 onward whenever a Soviet unit moves to within 2 hexes of Kiev, Leningrad or Warsaw, with the chances of a rising in Warsaw being 90% and risings in the other cities 10%.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 33
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/24/2010 7:46:12 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		The manual says that the Axis computer doesn't have to garrison cities; whether this is some odd take on history or some programming problem they couldn't fix, I don't know.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 34
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/24/2010 4:23:02 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Sure - I know it's a "working as designed" feature.

I'm suggesting a simple "quick fix" :)

The ownership state of each city must be known by the programme. Making a reinforcement with zero movement value arrive in each city on the next turn can't be that difficult for an application of this sophistication...?

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 35
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/25/2010 9:12:06 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Partisan units cannot be disbanded by the owning player. If the player feels that partisans are not being handled effectively by the enemy AI and are producing a-historical supply impacts, he has no way to turn the partisan feature off, or reduce its effect.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 36
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 3:40:08 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Jim Burns reports that with the latest patches and playing as the Axis vs. the AI, he no longer sees cases of the AI failing to defend city hexes. I am also patched up to 1.02 Beta, but playing as the Soviets vs. the Axis AI and I am still seeing the issue. Save game files have been sent to Joel, but if anyone else experiences this kind of issue, please log it here.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 37
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 7:43:49 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I've passed the saves on to Gary but I haven't heard from him about it, and probably won't until next week as I'm away on vacation for 5 days this week. Cities are not being garrisoned by the AI because it needs all the units it can get on the front. Cities on the front should be garrisoned, but only as part of the front line. Of course, when in offensive mode, the AI is less concerned with fill every hex on the front as it is thinking offensively, not defensively. Having units get tied down in cities would be possible, although it's not as easy as you think since there are many AI routines that might grab the unit and locking it down is often easier said then done. But the bigger issue is the computer can't afford to have units tied down in the rear. In any event, he'll look at the saves and if there's a problem he sees or a way to improve things I'm sure he'll try. Please be aware however that the AI is extremely complex and any change made threatens to unhinge other aspects of the AI. There is no free lunch when tinkering with the AI to make seemingly "easy" improvements.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 38
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 7:57:07 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		I don't mind having partisans out of our control.  I doubt they had communications with the Army and formal leadership that could co-ordinate well.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 39
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 9:35:32 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Cheers Joel - much appreciated.

I hear what you are saying, although what I am seeing is a distinct pattern where ONLY the city hex, and less frequently a city hex and an the adjacent hexes, are left open.

This happens when the city is part of the front line and it looks very strange to me.

As I say, I'd like to know if I am the only person experiencing this. If so, then it's obviously not a priority for you and I understand that.

Have a great break.

Mark

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 40
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 9:37:33 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I don't particularly want to micro-manage the partisans, I just want to be able to turn them on/off at a macro level.

I am not convinced that the AI conducts anti-partisan operations effectively and this might be making things easier for the human player.

Let me know how you see this when you reach summer '42 - I'm interested in other players' experiences.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 41
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 9:59:00 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		There is an 11th rifle brigade that arrives for the Sovs in late 1941; there is a typo in the name, so it is labeled as the 11*th rifle brigade.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 42
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/27/2010 10:58:26 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Need to check, but some historically duplicated units may come with * in the name, ex. 160*th Rifle division.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 43
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/28/2010 12:18:07 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		LOL, oh yes, the Soviet problem of keeping track of their numbers.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 44
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/28/2010 4:17:55 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Gary's response to the Chernigov and Cherkassy saves was that the AI was trying to draw you into a trap. Once you advance across the river it would launch a vicious counter-attack.

Seriously he said that during the spring of 1942 the AI is not in a mode where it is trying to guard the entire front line. This is especially true during mud. His experience is that in the past when he tried to have the AI focus on maintaining lines it didn't do what it needed to do when on the offensive or getting ready for the offensive. He felt living with gaps was better than the offsetting loss in offensive capability. Cities are really not a big deal in the game since the manpower is likely damage and little would be gained by taking it back since you'd only lose it again quickly.

On the other hand, reports of ports being bypassed worries us a lot. If you have saves where Odessa, Riga, or other ports are being left in the rear as the front line marches on please send them to 2by3@2by3games.com (in the case of Riga give the infantry a chance to catch up before calling it a problem). We would like to make sure these ports are not left in the rear.

On a related note, Gary found the smoking gun on why the units had warped out of the almost close pocket. The routine that forces units to use MPs when in certain situations was incorrectly using a routine that doesn't charge MPs while moving down a rail. Since there was a rail in the pocket, a lot of the movement was for free. With the fix, Gary got the results that he and we would all expect (a pile of units jamming up at the exit point and short of it trying to get out of the pocket). This fix should stop some of the warping that has been seen. We still don't have a save with an isolated unit warping. I suggest everyone always use autosave, and if you ever see this, please back up and check for sure that the unit warped out and send us the save. Thanks.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 12/28/2010 6:08:41 AM >

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 45
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/28/2010 5:16:41 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Oooh, clever AI.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 46
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/28/2010 9:57:08 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Brilliant Joel - many thanks.

Good to know that the warping issue is being fixed.

I will send you Axis turn 50 with Odessa still not taken. By turn 55 it had fallen.

On the matter of the AI not defending non-port cities, this is a constant problem and I am not convinced that it's purely linked to the AI needing troops elsewhere for an offensive. I am surprised to hear that "Cities are really not a big deal in the game" given the following observations:

1. Page 296 of the Manual indicates that VPs are awarded on the basis of 5 points for each Heavy Urban hex and 3 points for each Light Urban. Surely this point alone should force the AI to defend them?

2. City hexes have the highest defence modifier of any hexes in the game (+6 for light and +8 for heavy urban). They should therefore be the main points for establishing resistance, ESPECIALLY when there are insufficient troops to create a solid defence line - that's the worst possible time to leave the city hexes empty.

3. In my game, the AI is not attacking in 1942 - it is on the strategic defensive having lost 2.6m men by August '42, but it still ignores many city hexes and often defends right next to them, leaving the city hexes open. Please see my AAR (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2656364&mpage=3&key=) for details of multiple instances of this in the more recent posts.

All the best,

Mark

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 47
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/29/2010 11:33:49 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		When I disband units the confirmation dialogue does not indicate the AP needed for the action.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 48
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 12/29/2010 1:39:58 PM   
roflbinflood

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 12/8/2010
Status: offline 		In my 1.02 beta 1 game, none of my air units recover fatigue while being in reserve.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 49
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/1/2011 10:44:21 PM   
Shupov


Posts: 286
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline 		I am playing Typhoon for the first time as the Axis, with Soviets computer controlled. At start of the scenario all the Axis movement factors above the Axis Ally Line are zero. I have to end the turn and let the Soviets play first, but most of the Soviet movement factors are zero as well. In turn two, the movement factors are OK. Is this the correct behavior?






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shupov -- 1/2/2011 4:12:57 AM >

_____________________________

STALINADE

The real RED soda!

(in reply to roflbinflood)
Post #: 50
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/2/2011 4:55:46 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		My guess would be this is intended as Guderian launched his offensive first before the other units during Typhoon. The rest of the army jumped off a couple days later.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 51
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 11:47:12 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		12. When random weather is switched on the summer rains result in mud that extends across the whole of the front. The game needs more granularity in the way weather zones are modelled, possibly with a matrix of zones similar to that used in WiTP.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 52
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 5:29:46 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

12. When random weather is switched on the summer rains result in mud that extends across the whole of the front. The game needs more granularity in the way weather zones are modelled, possibly with a matrix of zones similar to that used in WiTP.


There are 4 different weather zones. Are you looking for more that that?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 53
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 5:38:25 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Shupov, most of the forces in the Typhoon scenario start off frozen, excepting 2. Panzer Army and (most of) Bryansk Front. On turn 2 the rest of AGC activates, and so do the other Soviet Fronts.

The Soviet Reserve armies in the rear activate later on in the scenario.





_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 54
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 5:55:43 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

12. When random weather is switched on the summer rains result in mud that extends across the whole of the front. The game needs more granularity in the way weather zones are modelled, possibly with a matrix of zones similar to that used in WiTP.


There are 4 different weather zones. Are you looking for more that that?

That would be nice.

When it rains heavy in Santa Rosa, we get some down here in Santa Clara. On the same day in Santa Monica, it could be sunny and warm, yet snowing in the Sierras . California is rather small compared to any of the four zones in the game, and we have much more variety in our weather. The current weather model in the game, where *every* hex within a zone experiences the *exact* same effect is needlessly coarse, and a rather embarassing blemish for a game that gets so many other things right. It really should get more love...

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 55
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 7:23:02 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Well, don't expect a more complex weather zone system. Maybe in a WitE 2.0, but not in this one.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 56
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 9:32:38 PM   
usecase

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 3/4/2004
Status: offline 		One point on the terrain value of cities, one of the problems in terms of AI programming is that, unlike Hitler, I'm never going to directly attack an urban hex. I'll just pocket it, wait a turn or two, and then shovel up the remains.

With the possible exception on Leningrad, this is true for all the major cities. Therefore, there seems to be little point in defending the city. This is fine, except it doesn't gibe with the reality of Eastern front operations. I'm not sure I have a solution - the AI is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

With respect to VPs, these are only really important when the decisive victory threshold is passed; I'm not sure the AI will be able to make the kind of nuanced judgements needed to be sensible about this - that's as the Soviets. As the Axis, well, once the initiative has passed to the Soviets, it doesn't much matter what calculations the AI does; it's toast.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 57
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/10/2011 11:13:33 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

12. When random weather is switched on the summer rains result in mud that extends across the whole of the front. The game needs more granularity in the way weather zones are modelled, possibly with a matrix of zones similar to that used in WiTP.


There are 4 different weather zones. Are you looking for more that that?


The 4 zones as laid out look ok I think. One thing I would like to see is when playing with "historical weather" is that instead of having the zones all be the same that there should be some variation between zones based on historical weather.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 58
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/11/2011 5:53:58 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Well, don't expect a more complex weather zone system. Maybe in a WitE 2.0, but not in this one.



It's good for WiTE 2.0 IMO. We are just logging it as a change we'd like you to think about. I will now be buying WiTE 2.0 solely to see that change

Personally, I prefer to PBEM with historical weather and let my opponent find other ways to change history :)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 59
RE: Updated - Master List of Issues - 1/11/2011 5:57:56 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: usecase

One point on the terrain value of cities, one of the problems in terms of AI programming is that, unlike Hitler, I'm never going to directly attack an urban hex. I'll just pocket it, wait a turn or two, and then shovel up the remains.

With the possible exception on Leningrad, this is true for all the major cities. Therefore, there seems to be little point in defending the city. This is fine, except it doesn't gibe with the reality of Eastern front operations. I'm not sure I have a solution - the AI is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

With respect to VPs, these are only really important when the decisive victory threshold is passed; I'm not sure the AI will be able to make the kind of nuanced judgements needed to be sensible about this - that's as the Soviets. As the Axis, well, once the initiative has passed to the Soviets, it doesn't much matter what calculations the AI does; it's toast.


That's a good point. However, I posted somewhere else that the speed with which units lose CV when trapped in a city hex is too short. I think that a unit should be able to draw basic supplies from a city for at least 2-3 weeks, not to mention its own supply dumps etc.

So, pocketed in rural areas - CV drop is immediate (as in 'next turn'). Pocketed in light urban, CV drop starts on turn 2. Pocketed in heavy urban, CV drop starts on turn 3...?

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to usecase)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> RE: Updated - Master List of Issues Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.656