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Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 8:07:01 PM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline 		...do we STILL not have the little dots seperating the huge numbers? I mean write 1.000.000 instead of 1000000. This can really be not that hard and EVERYONE is hating it? Or did we just get used to ticking of digits with the finger trying to see if its 20 million or 2 million?

While we talk about tech-trading. I can´t believe the current "value" of the tech is not listed in the list, so I have to add it to the bargaining-window, just to see how much it is worth to the other side? Should be an easy "fix", right?

Same goes for vector-lines showing the destinations of ships (if known). I click on a ship of mine, only to read that it is going to XYZ-moon (which doesn´t even tell me the system). Enemy fleets have those vectors, why can´t the currently selected ship have one? Pretty please?

I know these should maybe go to the wish-list, but I am afraid they will get buried there underneath all the "I want my lasers to look a little frizzy, but not too much, maybe with a slight green glow as they launch, fading to a more..."-threads. You get the picture

Immensely enjoying the expansion, of course!

Jan
Post #: 1
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 8:14:50 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I agree completely.

They've probably already been mentioned on the wishlist several times I should think. I was really surprised to see there's no comma seperator on the diplomacy screen numbers.


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(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 2
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 8:43:17 PM   
Haree78


Posts: 1269
Joined: 5/18/2010
Status: offline 		Oh god yes please, I honestly spend so many minutes of a game counting the numbers of a value when trading tech, it's a bit silly

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 3
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 9:50:33 PM   
kenata

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/16/2010
Status: offline 		I agree as well though, I would prefer commas to dots. It might be an american v international thing, but 1,000,000 just looks better than 1.000.000 especially when there is always the possibility of decimals.

(in reply to Haree78)
Post #: 4
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 9:51:39 PM   
Webbco


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/6/2010
Status: offline 		I'm from the UK and I've never seen dots used, always commas.

(in reply to kenata)
Post #: 5
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 9:55:21 PM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline 		Well, as far as I am concerned they can separate those groups with funny little elves with pointy hats, just separate them! 



< Message edited by Litjan -- 12/19/2010 9:56:11 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 10:08:36 PM   
Solus

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/10/2010
Status: offline 		It should be a very easy fix. Just about every programming language has string formatting functions which can automatically put commas in (or dots, or whatever the relevant localisation specifies).

(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 7
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 11:00:18 PM   
elliotg


Posts: 3597
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update

But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least?

Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators.

Thanks
Elliot

(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 8
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 11:15:42 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update

But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least?

Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators.

Thanks
Elliot



Honestly, the only place it is important for me is the diplomacy screens so I can tell if I'm giving the other guy 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 at a glance. It really is amazing how hard it is to tell without the separators. All those zeros just seem to run together.

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Post #: 9
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 11:46:02 PM   
Haree78


Posts: 1269
Joined: 5/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update

But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least?

Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators.

Thanks
Elliot



Most important:
Trade Negotiation screen

Medium importance:
Build Order screen

Minor importance:
Diplomacy screen
Empire Summary
Designs (Cost)
Empire comparison

Commas is what I've seen and is used in some places in the game ;)

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Post #: 10
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/19/2010 11:55:25 PM   
frugaldude

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline 		I think if you would use a monospaced font for numerals most of the issues of reading numbers would evaporate. Also a space after a number would make numbers more readable (121 M rather than 121M).

I can't count the number of times I misread a number when I could not recognize the numeral 1 within a number, especially when it is at the end of the number and proceeding a letter.

< Message edited by frugaldude -- 12/20/2010 12:01:33 AM >

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 11
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 1:13:28 AM   
Aures

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/13/2010
Status: offline 		Good stuff, I believe comma separators are more or less the standard in english. It is is only in programs written originally in other langauges (such as German) where I have seen full stops used as separators and commas used as decimal points. Besides that, DW and ROTS already use full stops as decimal points. Vanilla should definitely follow the standard english convention, but if the game is going to made moddable enough for community made translations the ability to globally set the separator/decimal point would be welcome. Rather than hard coding a "," char to be added into the strings it should use a char variable to make the ability to change it easier to implement.

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Post #: 12
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 2:32:19 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aures

Good stuff, I believe comma separators are more or less the standard in english. It is is only in programs written originally in other langauges (such as German) where I have seen full stops used as separators and commas used as decimal points. Besides that, DW and ROTS already use full stops as decimal points. Vanilla should definitely follow the standard english convention, but if the game is going to made moddable enough for community made translations the ability to globally set the separator/decimal point would be welcome. Rather than hard coding a "," char to be added into the strings it should use a char variable to make the ability to change it easier to implement.


That's part of the problem of having a game that appeals to a global player-base. What is a separator to one is a decimal to another, etc.

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Post #: 13
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 4:40:01 AM   
Solus

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
That's part of the problem of having a game that appeals to a global player-base. What is a separator to one is a decimal to another, etc.

That's where localisation comes in. You never hard code something like that, you design your code so that all you have to do is specify the language/locale (e.g. in a configuration file), and the code handles outputting the relevant information in the right format. Of course you have to prepare for that in advance - if you don't expect to reach a global audience, you can be forgiven for not foreseeing the need for localisation.

< Message edited by Solus -- 12/20/2010 4:41:29 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 6:47:08 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Solus
That's where localisation comes in. You never hard code something like that, you design your code so that all you have to do is specify the language/locale (e.g. in a configuration file)


I agree it should not be hard coded. The best thing to do would be to read the localisation setting (for the thousands separator) from the operating system and use that. Keeps everyone happy.


(in reply to Solus)
Post #: 15
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 9:29:54 AM   
thiosk


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		commas!

NO DOTS

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 16
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 10:28:44 AM   
Nibelung44


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/30/2010
Status: offline 		Something, not nothing! 

Can we get vectors for our ships too?

(in reply to thiosk)
Post #: 17
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 10:41:41 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		To be honest I live in the UK and I've never seen a game that used dots instead of commas to seperate portions or large numbers and I've neevr seen commas used as decimal points in any game.  That just doesn't make sense, if the game you are playing is in English, so should the numbers be.

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Post #: 18
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 11:00:59 AM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		Commas vs. dots...

is a thing of local customs. Anglo-saxons use commas as a thousands-separator and some others (Germans, French(?)) use dots. The decimal separators are reversed. This is a source of endless confusion and sometimes causes bugs in software when these numbers need to be parsed from text.

So, elliot, be careful about I18N, please ;). It has caused some grief already on the initial release of DW.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 19
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 11:13:55 AM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nibelung44

Something, not nothing! 

Can we get vectors for our ships too?



Yes, can we? Pretty please, with sugar on top?

(in reply to Nibelung44)
Post #: 20
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 2:00:31 PM   
Wenla


Posts: 83
Joined: 4/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thiosk

commas!

NO DOTS


Dots!

NO COMMAS

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Post #: 21
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 2:42:49 PM   
Fideach

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		Vectors would be more important to me! Of course, I can tell at a glance how much a number is with out the separators.

(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 22
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 3:36:08 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		Check from windows registry whether to use comma or dots. If thats too much then second best choice is to use dots.

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Post #: 23
RE: Expansion is great, but why... - 12/20/2010 4:16:10 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wenla


quote:

ORIGINAL: thiosk

commas!

NO DOTS


Dots!

NO COMMAS


Asterisks!

NO Dots!

NO Commas!



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'When in doubt...attack!'

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Post #: 24
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