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RE: Turn 5 - 1/6/2011 1:15:38 PM   
ComradeP

 

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The official word is that the defensive characteristics of difficult terrain are identical for both sides, but there are a few problems as I see it: 1) Soviet modified CV's compared to original CV's tend to be (a lot) higher than the Axis 2) For the Soviets anything above 1:1 is a victory that causes my units to retreat. The majority of the attacks I make in swamps end up between 1:1 and 2:1, so the Soviets would win those battles whilst the Axis don't. Difficult terrain is one part of the game where the odd bonus can be the deciding factor in theoretically making it easier for the Soviets to take than it would be for the Axis.

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RE: Turn 5 - 1/6/2011 7:57:46 PM   
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Panzers turn south in the AGN area, I was surprised he seems to have lacked to force to counterattack one of the motorized divisions. Oddly, the most exposed motorized division did seem to draw a short straw in the logistics phase of turn 7 as somehow it has only 4 MP's even though it's in range of its HQ and the HQ had plenty of dumps (the other units are fine in terms of fuel). Some of the supply mechanisms can still be a bit confusing as they seem random.

My infantry also has pretty low MP's in some turns, even though they're in range of their HQ and have done little fighting that could cause fatique or lack of supplies.






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RE: Turn 5 - 1/6/2011 8:00:41 PM   
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Limited progress in the AGC area. I must've had some error in my fort recon, as many forts that appeared as level 1 are level 2+ in turn 7, whilst I believe they should at best be level 2 (can't gain more than a fort level/turn) maybe it's FOW.

Obviously, notenome reinforced his most exposed crossing sites, but the defensive strengths don't look too scary. I'm hoping the modification dice will roll in my favour for a change on turn 7. If the Soviets get inflated modified CV's again, crossing the Dnepr isn't going to happen on turn 7.








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RE: Turn 5 - 1/6/2011 8:03:44 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Some progress in the AGS area. notenome attacked a Romanian stack with cavalry, but suffered higher losses than me even though he won the battle.

I'm really surprised by his lack of counterattacks. He's really running away as quickly as he can and hides behind the Dnepr. It spares some of his forces, but it makes advancing in other areas easier. On turn 7, the Soviet OOB is about 500k above its starting point in manpower. Not much I can do against that as long as he keeps running. 1942 and 1943 are better years to reduce Soviet manpower as he won't get the units back and running becomes more difficult for him.






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RE: Turn 6 - 1/6/2011 8:06:43 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Limited progress for the Romanians, they're not facing anyone.

I told him that with or without resistance, the Romanians can't move more than 2 or 3 hexes due to their morale. He's exploiting that in a very effective way.

I could've moved (literally, not move+repair) the FBD unit one more hex, but thought it was too risky with the cavalry in the area.




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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/6/2011 8:18:25 PM >


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RE: Turn 6 - 1/6/2011 8:07:33 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Losses are still OK.

The turn was fairly bloody for me, though.




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RE: Turn 6 - 1/6/2011 8:16:01 PM   
ComradeP

 

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The main setback remains lack of progress in the AGN area. My opponent is cleverly using the fact that, with or without significant resistance, my logistics will break down. He's preserving his forces and there's little to nothing I can do catch them. There's always some natural barrier or extremely good defensive terrain to hide in/behind.

My advance thus far is more or less what I had planned for aside from in the AGN area.

My opponent's doing a fine job in using the Axis disadvantages to his advantage, but is thus far not really taking advantage of the main Soviet strength: having lots of completely expendable men and units, which come back for free. I'd be inclined to stage a much more forward and aggressive defence. 2 real counterattacks in 6 turns don't really slow me down. The Romanian casualties can be covered by their own manpower production and the routing of the Panzer division actually brough it close enough to the supply grid to have decent MP's, not to mention that I'm not intending to head directly east over the "land bridge" in any case.

His army will be huge in the winter, though, so it will be challenging to try and stop it. I'm more of a defender than an attacker in most games, so I'm hoping I can put past experiences to good use in later years and hope to finally be able to pocket some reasonable amount of units in the 1942 summer campaign (running in that campaign will generally push the frontline too far east for comfort).

Turns are thus far not too interesting: I advance a bit in the north, find some units in swamps I can't possibly remove without isolating them, isolate them, remove the isolated forces from last turn, move a bit in the center and south, run into a checkerboard/major river, no units to isolate, end turn.

The thing that currently puzzles me is why many of my infantry units have 10 or less MP's. Their supply states are looking pretty good mostly and their fatique isn't too high. It varies a lot between turns, but I wasn't expecting the low MP's I'm seeing on turn 7. I was hoping for 12 or more MP's for most units.

The first partisan attack blew up a single rail hex in a non-essential sector before the partisans were removed.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/6/2011 8:19:19 PM >


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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 6:59:47 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
1942 and 1943 are better years to reduce Soviet manpower as he won't get the units back and running becomes more difficult for him.

and

Soviet strength: having lots of completely expendable men and units, which come back for free


What do you mean when you say he won't get the units back in 42?

And do men come back for free in 1941? Even if units do I thought manpower lost was gone for good?

< Message edited by jjdenver -- 1/7/2011 7:01:55 PM >


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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 7:03:06 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Every non-airborne and I believe non-NKVD unit the Axis kill prior to November 1941 comes back in some way (Tank divisions as Tank brigades mostly, motorized divisions as Rifle divisions) without him having to pay AP's for it, after that he needs to manually create units using AP's.

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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 7:23:20 PM   
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Just to clarify that they come back as empty containers that need new manpower to fill them out. The original troops in them are not resurrected.

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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 7:41:46 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Just to clarify that they come back as empty containers that need new manpower to fill them out. The original troops in them are not resurrected.

What? No legions of zombified Soviets to battle with chainsaws and panzerfausts? That's it! I'm quitting this game...forever!

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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 11:12:03 PM   
karonagames


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I should have included JJdenver's question in my post - Pieter's answer did not address this specific point, but I am sure the Germans must have wondered where the manpower was coming from.




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RE: Turn 5 - 1/7/2011 11:33:30 PM   
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To quote General Halder, "We reckoned with 200 divisions; now we have already counted 360."

Around mid August 1941.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:35:50 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Some good news this turn, for a change, although Soviet counterattacks could minimize some of them.

Panzers are next to Velikie Luki. I expect at least 1 counterattack.

There are large amounts of Soviets in the area, I'm assuming he's still reinforcing Leningrad even though I'm not going there. He should soon send divisions elsewhere, if he's smart. Luckily for me, that will drain his rail capacity a bit.

A few corps from AGC are shifting north and more infantry will arrive in the next few turns.




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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/8/2011 12:37:27 AM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:40:59 AM   
ComradeP

 

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AGC's across the Dnepr, at least for the moment. The stack is good, but might be beaten back. Ground support is set to 100/100. In one attack, the Luftwaffe showed up with 300 planes, disrupting the defenders so severely that my losses were minimal. I'm hoping for another good showing if he attacks.

Knowing the Soviet potential and impressive modifiers, a stack with a defensive value of 40 isn't invincible when attacked by enough men and I'm not sure what kind of value my stack will show to him.

GD and Lehr are resting.

As you can see, a large amount of Soviet units are holding the Dnepr line. There seems to be little to no depth along most of the line as far as I can see.

The infantry will try to break other stacks on the Dnepr next turn. Unless he pulls back, it's going to be a slow and methodical process.




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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/8/2011 12:41:33 AM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:44:41 AM   
ComradeP

 

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In the AGS area, I seem to have caught him unprepared for a change. Kirovograd is isolated, but I couldn't properly encircle the city yet. The good news is that Southern Front HQ is in the hex. Resistance along the way was minimal, so I'm expecting him to rail in more forces unless he wants his defence in the area to implode and bet everything on holding the Dnepr.

The defensive values of the Soviet stacks along the Dnepr are not all impressive, but there are some "no way in hell you'll get across here" stacks. Fort levels are actually lower than I had expected.

He can't be strong everywhere, and holding the Dnepr along its entire length does mean he won't have significant reserves in the far south at this point.




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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/8/2011 12:45:26 AM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:46:43 AM   
ComradeP

 

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The Romanians make some progress.

The FBD unit is 13 hexes from Kirovograd, so it's making good progress (it's in the hex with the Romanian mountain brigade).

I seem to have toggled hex control off by accident when taking the screenshot, but you should get the general idea of who controls what.




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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/8/2011 12:48:28 AM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:49:54 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Losses were, again, acceptable.

I'm losing bombers for no reason as my fighter squadrons sometimes don't appear in the unit selection screen for air transport missions. As usual, the Romanians take most of the damage.

As you can see, I've disbanded all SPAA companies I could disband.




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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 12:53:23 AM   
ComradeP

 

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The line along the Dnepr is fairly impressive at the moment, but it should be breachable, especially with good air support.

I'm in the process of assigning a StuG battalion to my motorized divisions, pioneers to my Panzers and generally sorting out support units, which will take a while.

I've upgraded 2 air groups to the Ju 87D and 1 or 2 air groups to the Bf 109 F and will upgrade my fighters as soon as I have compiled a list of withdrawing units, so I don't give good planes to units that will disappear in a short while.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 1:02:09 AM   
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What is the reasoning behind disbanding the AA companies? Not worth to keep them up and running in your opinion - maybe because they always tend to be at 90%+ FAT?

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 1:06:46 AM   
ComradeP

 

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I believe the fatique issues were fixed in a hotfix somewhere after the last official patch, mine were mostly below 10% when I disbanded them.

I disband them because they're small (and thus fragile), use an equipment type both in use by divisions and by larger support units and cause clutter in HQ's (they could take the place of a more credible support unit when committed to battle).

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 8:43:30 AM   
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Good points, thx for the explanation.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/8/2011 4:14:04 PM   
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Just so you know Soviet brigades don't come back either. Only infantry and motorized divisions come back as infantry division shells and tank divisions come back as tank brigade shells. This is only up until 1 Nov 41, thereafter they are lost for good if destroyed. One more thing to remember is that routed tank divisions have a 20% chance of being pulled off the line when they rally and will return later as tank brigades.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/9/2011 6:26:58 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Contrary to my expectations, not a single attack was made. notenome might want to preserve forces, but this puzzles me. Southern Front either moved out or relocated.

Von Vietinghoff's dead. Ironically, his Panzer Corps HQ was further from the nearest enemy hexes than most others (3 hexes), so it's somewhat surprising. He was a good leader, but not a truly awesome one and there are more like him.

Geyr von Schweppenburg's a Generaloberst now.

C. Hansen's political rating improved to 8.

Graf von Brockdorff-Ahlefeldt armor rating improved to 4, which is odd as he's an infantry corps commander.

I didn't expect to see German combat unit skill rating improvements this soon, it's a nice surprise.

I can see about 1/3 of his Rifle formations.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/9/2011 6:47:16 PM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/9/2011 9:20:56 PM   
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In my current game no leader had a skill gain until 1942, then they arrived in small bunches, like 3 leaders in a single turn.  It's possible that improvement is much more likely with, or even requires, victories.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/9/2011 10:48:36 PM   
ComradeP

 

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From my test games, I got the impression that gains in morale and political ratings were the most common, followed by other ratings, but that might've been coincidence.

As far as I know, they're dictated by successes and an in-game formula. The game does recognize special achievements from time to time, which can be a pleasant surprise the turn after a certain formation does something amazing. However, both commanders that got a skill increase were 16th Army. C. Hansen has a good rating of, I believe 15:0 or the like, but Graf von Brockdorff-Ahlefeldt has 8:2, and he doesn't have any mechanized forces under his command.

It's nice to see some skill increases already, but naturally they shouldn't be too common unless you're really performing well. For many German commanders, there's also less room for skill increases as many of their leaders have infantry/mechanized ratings of 6 or higher, which means they can't improve further.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/10/2011 3:54:54 PM   
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As a strategic assessment of the situation at this point and a description of near future plans:

-The main setback thus far remains the lack of progress by AGN's mobile forces in the early turns, which also significantly reduced the benefit of sending them there and in turn postponed the Dnepr crossing until significant Soviet forces could be moved in.

-Until the mud hits, AGN will try to occupy the area between lake Peipus and lake Pskov (crucial to prevent the Soviets from walking into clear terrain across the major river hexsides during the winter) and possibly advance up to lake Ilmen. I won't try to capture Leningrad, it isn't going to happy anymore. I was hoping it was possible, but the swamp defense quickly removed that hope. The right hook east of lake Ilmen that some players have tried is interesting, and it has good potential, but that wasn't possible due to the initial lack of progress, and you really have to get east of lake Ilmen before around turn 10 to make it work.

As such, I've accepted that the historical gains in the AGN area are not going to be possible, primarily due to the terrain and not due to the Soviet forces in the area. I had actually planned for this eventuality and am perfectly fine with abandoning the attempt to capture Leningrad. There are significant benefits to capturing the city, but it would at this point require way too many forces if it's even still possible at all.

One corps will dig in on the Narva river. Hopefully the heavy woods and swamp hexes will greatly limit the impact of the Soviet blizzard offensive. I'll probably set them to static, as he can't really outflank me there.

-In the AGC area, the going is slow, but I don't consider that to be a problem at this point. My goals are to capture Smolensk and possibly Bryansk. Anything else is extra. I have no intention of pushing east to the historical limit, even if it would still be possible. Quite simply, I think the Axis should fight to survive the war, not to capture as much Soviet territory as possible, only to lose it again due to overextension. As I need over 145 or so points to get a minor victory on the final turn, I've accepted that the best result will probably be a draw as I'd need to hold the Ukraine until the end of the game for a minor victory to be possible.

One good thing about slow and methodical advances is that I'm fighting within reasonable distances of my rail lines, which eases supply.

I'll launch a limited 1942 summer offensive in the AGC area, but the goals will depend on where the frontline is after the snow turns in early 1942.

Soviet troop quality won't increase all that much unless they get a lot of morale boosting victories, which is one of the main reasons I'm surprised about the lack of counterattacks. The Soviets are not going to get beyond about 60 morale unless they win lots of battles. At 50-60 morale, a Rifle corps will have a strength of around 15, which is something I can deal with. 15 strength Rifle corps are not something the Axis should be too scared of. 30-40 strength Rifle corps, however, are extremely scary.

-AGS will hopefully be able to capture at least Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye. I'd like to capture the 3 cities east of that too, but that's probably not going to be possible without serious overextension.

I doubt it's possible to get across the southermost part of the Dnepr with all those swamp hexes on the other side, so I don't think I'm going to try to take the Crimea. Like with Leningrad, there are too many terrain limitations, in this case primarily the narrow entry point, which will be fortified to at least level 4 forts by the time I get there.

-The crucial thing that I have to keep in good shape is Wehrmacht morale and thus experience. If I can keep mobile unit morale over 90, and thus their experience too, their combat power will be good even when the TOE's downside rather seriously in 1945. If I only have ~60-70 morale/experience units by that time, I'm going to get creamed by the horde of Soviet mobile forces. A 1944 90 experience/morale Panzer division with adequate support should be more than capable of dealing with a Soviet Tank corps with around 60 morale/experience. The key is again to prevent Soviet victories.

I'm guessing he'll try to mix Tank corps with Rifle units for some easy victories, so the key will be to prevent such opportunities from presenting themselves.

-In general, my defense is going to rely on flexibility, mobility and trading ground lost in order to prevent units from being lost. The Soviets don't really have much flexibility and until their morale improves to counter the impressive additional MP's required for medium to low morale units moving from hostile ZOC to hostile ZOC, the mobility of his mobile units won't be too good.

As I see it, the mid to late war will come down to a wall of Soviet units moving west, with my mobile units nibbling parts of that wall from time to time. It's much easier to isolate Soviet forces they're attacking with their mediocre 1942-1943 armies than when I'm attacking, as the Soviets player can just pull back a bit and checkerboard. There's more or less zero incentive to hold ground currently.

-As to my opponent: I'd say he has thus far correctly played to the obvious Soviet strength that there's a major river running north/south around a large part of the map. You don't need to be a strategic genius to see the benefits of the river, but you do have to be a good planner to make a defense work. Some fort levels are a tad low, but he has done a good job thus far. He has also done a good job with pulling back his forces, so I can't really pocket much.

The main thing he isn't doing is concentrating his forces, and thus counterattacking. What you want to try to do as the Soviet player is to try and take the initiative from the Axis. Now he is giving the initiative solely to me: he's holding a static defensive line along a natural barrier. As far as I can see, there's little to no depth in the line. I can see about 1/3 of his Rifle formations. If I include the forces I assume to be present in the hexes bordering the Dnepr I can't see and the Leningrad area, that's about 2/3 of his Rifle formations. The rest are probably training or refitting. Ideally, you want to leave the Axis clueless where your forces are, but he's essentially yelling "here they are!" by placing them all in a fairly static position.

I think he'll have the common sense to get out of dodge when the Dnepr bridgeheads widen, but I would probably have done the Dnepr defense a bit differently. I'm not going to say how differently at this point as some of you might incidentally give him ideas that might make my crossings much more difficult than they already are.

The main flaws in his defensive planning thus far are in my opinion that he essentially doesn't counterattack and that he seriously overreacts to flanking movements, simply pulling everything back instead of trying to stall me and play for time. In the Velikie Luki area, for example, he has pulled back fairly significantly from the swamps in the area just because my mobile forces are about to encircle Velikie Luki.

As a good Soviet player, you should see those things as mostly unrelated events: the goal of the forces in the swamps is to prevent Axis infantry from moving up, the goal of the forces in the Velikie Luki area is to prevent the isolation of the city and to minimize the breakthrough. The forces in the swamps should not be moved east to support the area, as that will allow the Axis infantry to move in. As with chess, just because your pieces are next to eachother doesn't mean they should be used to accomplish the same goal. He has even moved forces into the hills east of the city, whilst fairly obviously my mobile forces will be heading south to isolate his strong between river "land bridge" defenses in the Vitebsk and Smolensk area.

I'll only truly be able to judge his skills during his blizzard offensive. If he botches that, my life will be a lot easier in 1942.

Thus far, as a grade I'd give him a B for being able to minimize losses and staging a fairly capable defense along the Dnepr and myself a C for the AGN and AGC areas and a B for the AGS area.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 1/10/2011 4:24:43 PM >


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RE: Turn 7 - 1/10/2011 4:10:20 PM   
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Nice write up.

One thing I am interested in watching for in these AAR's is what the Soviets do during mud and what the Germans do during their 3 turns of "frost".

I have been messing around with the Operation Typhoon scenario, not to play it historically, but rather as a learning tool on how to deal with the season changes. Should the Russian player get too aggressive during mud, it appears to me he could really get burned hard on those three turns if he is not careful. Only when the blizzard arrives can the Russian really afford to get frisky. This is not to say that the Russian player should not be on the look out to take advantage of situations against over extended German units, but shoving a pile of troops up against a German line in preparation of the winter offensive appears risky to me.

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RE: Turn 7 - 1/10/2011 4:20:28 PM   
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Indeed, the Soviets will probably face problems when they move their units ahead in the mud turns. The best thing to do, which some might consider to be gamey, is move back into a checkerboard position at the last mud turn in both winter and spring, knowing that the Axis can get going again next turn and that they'll pocketed if they hang around next to the Axis frontline.

The main thing that has been troubling me of late when it comes to mud is whether the historical small scale offensives of 1942 are currently possible. Given the current mud effects, I don't really see how replicating something like the second battle of Kharkov is possible, just to name an example.

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(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 89
RE: Turn 7 - 1/10/2011 5:24:44 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Excellent AAR, a very good strategic self-assessment.

What turn is it anyway, and how many turns of clear does that allow you? Your objectives seem very conservative, but your opponent has been cagey and played the SU pretty well it seems. He has played a "Sir Robin", or "Commisar Robinsky" defense, which makes it very tough to encircle and destroy Soviets after the first couple turns.

Interesting take on long-term German objectives; you are focusing on force-preservation as #1, and plan to create a Ukranian Redoubt to hold-off the Soviets in 1944. Curious how that will pan out.



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(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 90
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