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RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Available!

 
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RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 2:24:19 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Edit: Bah wrong thread, disregard.

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Post #: 61
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 2:13:30 PM   
Speedy2511

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 3/4/2010
Status: offline 		Hi.

Something new from the developers?

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 62
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 3:00:22 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Soon...

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Speedy2511)
Post #: 63
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 3:01:02 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Ooo yes, music to our collective ears

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Post #: 64
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 3:37:18 PM   
Apheirox

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 2/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

After running two games where AI has decided the start, I find the AI good at building research stations. True, at the very start it is slow, but it does not last long.

A solution is not harder than letting your AI do the building for you, and not do a cheesy retrofit to a super home port. That you use something that resembles and exploit does not mean that the AI have to do so too.



quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

I don't think that's an exploit, instead of retrofitting you can always just build research stations at your homeworld for the same effect. It's good play, and I don't see why the AI shouldn't do the same, really.



Bingeling is incorrect about it 'not lasting long'. It is common for me to be 10-15 techs ahead of the AI because of my retrofitting.


I also disagree it's an exploit. I think it would be much more accurate to describe it as a bad game mechanism brought on by a poor research system. 'Cheesy' is the word, not 'exploit'. Starting players out with a base that produces 120K research when their actual starting potential is in the 400-600K range is simply bad design. What are players supposed to do, play badly on purpose and avoid retrofitting their initial space ports in order to keep a level playing field by playing as badly as the AI? Just bad design, really bad. The research system needs a complete overhaul - but fortunately one that shouldn't be too hard to retrofit the game to, so to speak - it requires the few simple changes I outlined to produce one version of a healthy system.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 65
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 7:15:25 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		A quick solution would be to add more bases at start, yes. What I try to say is that the AI is aggressive at placing research and resort locations early. It is not a lot of time after the start that it approaches the potential.

In my swarm-game which I just posted an AAR update on, the Total Research potential is 809K.
Actual outpit including bonuses are: 537+945+296. More than enough.
Total Research Capacity is 725+625+525.

What I tried to say was hang back a bit with pushing your potential. Don't make something you know is a huge boost against the AI an complain it is too easy.

Some AI stupidity is hard to avoid exploiting, this is not one of those things. Btw, I believe my swarmers are also good on research now, even if they started behind. They are crazy at stealing research, and it is all by the AI :-)

(in reply to Apheirox)
Post #: 66
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 10:19:59 PM   
Apheirox

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 2/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

What I tried to say was hang back a bit with pushing your potential. Don't make something you know is a huge boost against the AI an complain it is too easy.


I understood what you said and I disagree. Asking the player to artificially limit himself and play poorly in order to keep a level playing field with the AIs is not the way to go. They need to implement a change, be that either along the lines I suggested or something better. But asking the player to break the game's own rules ("always keep a larger research potential than your actual output") right from the onset of the game in order to account for a poorly designed research model and AI utilization of which is stupid. This can be used as a temporary emergency solution to a frankly unacceptable problem that should have caught the eyesight of the developers immediately but is certainly not an option as a permanent solution.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 67
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 10:28:18 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		While I entirely agree with you Apheirox I think we should take into consideration the fact that "the developers" is actually only Elliot. The game is so obviously imbalanced in many aspects that is clear it was launched with the ideea of "before you make something perfect make something perfectible" in mind.
So there is still a long way to go but the potential is there and Elliot is open minded so I'm confident that imbalances such as this will get fixed eventually.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Apheirox)
Post #: 68
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/15/2011 10:41:41 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Hi.

Something new from the developers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Soon...


Wooohoo!
Thank you one and all...

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Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 69
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/18/2011 7:29:05 PM   
Apheirox

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 2/2/2011
Status: offline 		Guyz, if I install this beta will I have to completely uninstall then reinstall to play 1501 again? Or can the 1504 beta be installed/uninstalled with no problems?

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 70
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/18/2011 8:42:43 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		that is a good question. I think Elliot responded way back to a similar question and said that all you need to do is to backup the executable before applying the new patch. In order to revert you'd need to replace the new executable with the backup.
I'm not 100% sure but this is how I remember it.

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 71
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/18/2011 9:06:03 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		That does of course depend on whether the patch affects more than the executable.

Bug fixes (crashes) should be in the executable, balance adjustments (which are quite a few in the first post here) could be in other files. The missing space port issue could be both in the executable and in resource files, for instance.

As long as you can download older patches, reverting should not be a problem as long as you install from scratch...

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 72
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/18/2011 10:08:44 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Yes, that is pretty much the safe option....I think Apheirox wanted a shorter route. I wonder if we could just make a backup of the game folder and revert to it without a problem; it would be the easiest way to go about it.

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 73
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/18/2011 10:40:02 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		That should be safe unless registry changes are made. And I would find it strange if a patch mess with that kind of stuff, it may happen to set version nr, maybe...

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 74
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/23/2011 9:41:49 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Soon...


Spam.

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Post #: 75
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/24/2011 4:23:57 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Is it soon yet?

I'm guessing the earthquake has delayed this and it is totally understandable...family, friends and getting your life back together comes first and foremost. Patches can wait.

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Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 76
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/24/2011 4:34:29 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Erik just updated us on this, they are all safe and sound. Some property damage involved.

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 77
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/24/2011 6:14:52 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		There have been some delays, but we are moving forward as quickly as possible. Everyone is well after the earthquake.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 78
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/24/2011 7:59:36 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Everyone is well after the earthquake.


That is what matters!

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 79
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/24/2011 11:34:11 PM   
Padraig Tseng

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 2/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

There have been some delays, but we are moving forward as quickly as possible. Everyone is well after the earthquake.


Glad to hear that all are safe and sound down there.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 80
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/25/2011 12:20:10 PM   
Shelldrake

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

There have been some delays, but we are moving forward as quickly as possible. Everyone is well after the earthquake.


Glad to hear that all are well. Relatives of mine who live in Christchurch lost their house but are also fine.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 81
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/25/2011 6:28:59 PM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Erik: I'm glad to hear everyone is well.

I appreciate you letting us know that there would be no patch last weekend. It stopped me from wasting time checking the forums regularly. Can you let us know for definite if there will be no further updates this weekend too?

(in reply to Shelldrake)
Post #: 82
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/25/2011 7:17:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Looks like not unfortunately, but I think at this point next week is pretty much guaranteed.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 83
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/26/2011 1:13:04 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Looks like not unfortunately, but I think at this point next week is pretty much guaranteed.


Even so, patch can definately wait till after clean up. Good to know Elliot and his family are ok.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 84
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/27/2011 7:38:52 PM   
Apheirox

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 2/2/2011
Status: offline 		Erik,

Thanks for keeping us so well informed. It stands in total contrast to how major developer Firaxis is treating their Civilization V customers. It seems to be an established fact that small indie developers offer much better support than large, big-budget companies even though it should seem it would be the other way around. I think one of the biggest faults of the gaming industry is keeping the fans of their games in the dark, which for obvious reasons generates a lot of frustration and anger.

Kudos to you and the rest of the Matrix team.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 85
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 2/27/2011 9:22:54 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Well put, Apheirox, I second all of it

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 86
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 3/2/2011 11:10:23 PM   
alexalexuk

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/6/2010
Status: offline 		update?

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 87
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 3/3/2011 4:26:33 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Things are looking good for a new public beta this Friday, I'll keep you posted.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to alexalexuk)
Post #: 88
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 3/3/2011 5:39:28 AM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Oh, great! Thanks, Mr. Erik

< Message edited by Caesar_Augustus -- 3/3/2011 5:40:13 AM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 89
RE: New! Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.4 Public Beta Ava... - 3/3/2011 5:45:24 AM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

...take into consideration the fact that "the developers" is actually only Elliot.


Elliot is the one and only developer of the game? What's your source?

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 90
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