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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno

 
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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 1:06:28 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		This game is a a very good example of how easy it is to slowly dig your own grave as an Axis player if you are overly cautious.

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 31
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 1:54:20 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		This game will prove absolutely nothing in terms of the blizzard and the "spring miracle." Turn 4 and nowhere near the Dnepr? Smolensk and Pskov still in Soviet hands? This game only proves that an overly cautious Axis player will get his ass whipped during the blizzard - something that is common knowledge.

Zero, zip, nada


(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 32
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 2:13:42 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Hang on a sec

Senno said he wasn't the most experienced player in the world before he started

If Oleg wants a real challenge to prove his theory right or wrong, then he needs to take on a player with a lot more experience.

And I'm sure he turned down the chance to take one of them on in the blizzard thread, before he accepted the offer from Senno


(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 33
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 2:34:47 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo
This game will prove absolutely nothing in terms of the blizzard and the "spring miracle." Turn 4 and nowhere near the Dnepr? Smolensk and Pskov still in Soviet hands? This game only proves that an overly cautious Axis player will get his ass whipped during the blizzard - something that is common knowledge.


Marquo what's your problem?

I never said this will "prove" anything, it's just another game in search of getting to playable spring 42 positions, that's all. If you think his start was that bad, then he will be overrun in winter and that's it, no harm done to lab animals or test subjects.... how the hell could I know in advance someone's style of play?

Marquo if you want a game let me know.

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 34
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 2:43:58 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Oleg,

I am simply bemused by the title of Senno's AAR of your game: "Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" I appreciate the offer of a game; perhaps in a week or 2. Are you too overloaded with games from the Soviet POV? I am about ready to try as the Axis.

Marquo

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 35
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 2:45:22 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Senno said he wasn't the most experienced player in the world before he started

If Oleg wants a real challenge to prove his theory right or wrong, then he needs to take on a player with a lot more experience.

And I'm sure he turned down the chance to take one of them on in the blizzard thread, before he accepted the offer from Senno


Encircled I didn't turn anyone down as Soviet, read that thread again. Big Anorak and Pieter turned MY challenge down. I challenged everyone in that thread, if they want to take my Soviets, and get Germans to playable spring 42. I currently think it cannot be done, but am open to be proved wrong. The only way to prove ME wrong is to play Germans, and defend in winter so that we get to playable spring.

When we put the "challenge" that way, I said I predict 20% of games may end in outright victory of German summer supermen, remaining 80% or so, will end in Soviet winter supermen effectivelly ruining the game. If we find a way to get to playable spring 42 that's great!

If anyone wants to take this challenge, to get to playable spring, let me know. We may only have problems defining what "playable spring" means Soviets back in Minsk? LOL, no that's not playable spring for me. Germans taking Moscow, LG and Harkov, only to be pushed back to Dnepr in winter? That's not "playable spring" for me either, that's German victory ruined by some faulty winter mechanics.

I turned only Pieter down, when he wanted me to play as German. To win outright victory as Germans requires skill, that I am not sure I have - yet! Plus, I will play Germans, if we define taking LG, Moscow and Harkov as German victory. I don't want to take these cities and be overrun in winter. So that game will simply win in his Soviets running over my Germans. That is the only challenge I turned down.

I hope I explained my position better now. Having said all this, if anyone else wants to try to get to "playable spring" just let me know.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 36
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 2:56:27 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Fair enough, and apologies if I misread the thread

I'm even less experienced then Senno, and I'm finding making the right moves while looking after my three and two year old sons next to impossible!

Ah well, back to restarting and trying to sort out my opening moves (again!)

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 37
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 4:07:45 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo
I am simply bemused by the title of Senno's AAR of your game: "Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" I appreciate the offer of a game; perhaps in a week or 2. Are you too overloaded with games from the Soviet POV? I am about ready to try as the Axis.


No problem Marquo, whenever you're ready let me know via PM. If there is a way to playable spring 42, and we, the community, haven't found it by now, the only way is to play more games, right?

Senno's AAR? I don't read AARs from my opponents so I can't comment.

I am not overloaded with games, my opponents are pretty laid back (reading this James? )

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 38
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/6/2011 5:05:30 PM   
raizer

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		marquo is probably one of the top players on the tiller hps site-not saying it automatically conveys to this game, but marquo, Im sure "gets it" when it comes to this game.  And Oleg I used to think you were a jerk on this forum but Ive come full circle  mainly due to your superman summer/superman winter analogy-very apt imho

and sennos opening wasnt very good which leads to exponential problems with each passing turn.  But at least he is trying and playing. 



(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 39
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:31:04 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Turn 6 and gotta be honest about it, he's just not making enough progress IMO. He is fighting with panzers too often, instead of using them to exploit.

In the North he finally kinda-sorta pocketed Pskov, only I brought couple of those 6-8 CV southern Tank divisions there for a nasty surprise and reopened the path to Pskov pocket for at least one turn.

He is paying the price for bad AGS opening, and probably doesn't even know it (probably wondering what those 7 CV units are doing there this soon).




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Post #: 40
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:32:25 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Status: offline 		Reopening the road to Pskov pocket is not visible on the screenie above because I take screenshots uusually at the beginning of the turn so as not to disclose too many of my Trade Mark moves So, I opened a path to pocket after the screenie is taken (and moved other units as well, bolstering defences).

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 41
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:35:08 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Status: offline 		Smolensk landbridge. He is using Panzers to bulldoze couple hexes each turn - NOT the way German units should be used, although I know my defence here is pretty strong.

Mini breakthrough south of Velikye Luki was closed by the end of the turn by some corrections to the frontline and operational retreats.




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Post #: 42
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:41:08 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Status: offline 		Dnepr. Come on man you should be crossing the big river faster! We are having a staring contest over the river for 2 turns already. This is not necessarilly bad in itself, if the German is concentrating and advancing elsewhere.

He made small bridgehead near Gomel, obviously with one of the AGM Panzer groups. I would never use AGM Panzers that much to the south, but some German players use them even further to the south, detaching them to AGS area completely, rejoining AGM well after whole Pripyat marsh area is taken.

My gut feeling tells me that is wrong, but may turn out to be interesting, perhaps smart strategy. With some very bold play opens up possibilities for huge pockets in the area east of Dnepr (but you have to cross the Dnepr first






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(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 43
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:42:31 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Very hard going for Armee Gruppe Sued.




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Post #: 44
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:44:39 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Status: offline 		And this is extreme south of the map, at the end of my turn (all other screens are taken at the beginning of my turn). I evacuated Odessa as I didn't want to risk to get encircled there, although to tell the truth there was no danger of getting cut off for at least one turn.




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Post #: 45
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 4:59:44 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


I am not overloaded with games, my opponents are pretty laid back (reading this James? )

Yeah...and watching your continuing evolution as a player. I think there's a bad joke about lower simians, untermenschen, and ubermenschen in here somewhere, but I'll be damned if I'm the one to tell it...

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 46
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 5:05:20 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
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Status: offline 		Besides, I don't think that Oleg ever sleeps. That, or he's got a clone. Or, an evil twin brother. He's always online, posting at all times of the day and night, and kicks back the turns faster than I can play them. Yeah...I think Oleg might just be a Croatian Gaming Collective, having a big joke on all of us...

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 47
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 7:49:06 AM   
alfonso

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 10/22/2001
From: Palma de Mallorca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled


...and I'm finding making the right moves while looking after my three and two year old sons next to impossible!




Same here with my one-and-half year old daughter...

There has been much talk in the forum about wife/girlfriend issues. The "baby factor" has not been addressed so much , though.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 48
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 1:40:39 PM   
Klydon


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Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Looking good overall, but I don't know that I like the idea of pulling the plug on Odessa like that. You have heavy forts around the city and he has nothing close that can kick good stacks out of there. By giving him a easy win at Odessa, you allow him to push up against the river harder in the deep south sooner because he doesn't have to commit Germans to dig Russians out of Odessa. Even if he sends a stack or two there, you can still sea lift the garrison out fast enough to get away and the diversion still served a purpose.

I also wonder if he is pushing south with some AGC armor to try to break things loose in the south.

(in reply to alfonso)
Post #: 49
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 1:45:01 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Status: offline 		German infantry that is 10 or so hexes NW of Odessa, could have easily pushed directly to the sea in the next turn, brushing aside 1=1 ants on their way, and cut off Odessa and troops on the Dnestr (Rumanians call that river Nistru).

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 50
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/8/2011 2:33:37 PM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		IIRC I had some AGC armor operating to the south of Zhitomir in the game vs. Miller and personally I really liked the added punch they provided in the south, but progress in the center itself was fairly slow due to it.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 51
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/9/2011 12:15:49 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
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From: The Zone™
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Looking good overall, but I don't know that I like the idea of pulling the plug on Odessa like that. You have heavy forts around the city and he has nothing close that can kick good stacks out of there. By giving him a easy win at Odessa, you allow him to push up against the river harder in the deep south sooner because he doesn't have to commit Germans to dig Russians out of Odessa. Even if he sends a stack or two there, you can still sea lift the garrison out fast enough to get away and the diversion still served a purpose.

I also wonder if he is pushing south with some AGC armor to try to break things loose in the south.



I agree, Klydon. Oleg, not keeping let's say 2 divisions in Odessa might be a mistake. Your situation down there is incredibly good, given that your opponent hasn't destroyed your SW front (just like on my first PBEM game). You've got many hordes (you could even divert minimum 20 divisions to other sensible fronts; yes, it CAN be done).

Don't forget your Odessa defenders would NOT be doomed. They would escape routed via the PORT to Crimea (that's what they did on my game after 3 heroic attacks -aka 3 turns- repulsed)! So let's say 2 rifle divisions + Coastal Army HQ might resist er during 3, 4 or MORE turns... Your opponent would be forced to capture this town. Its YES or YES. This necessary operation would force your opponent to divert minimum 6, 7 or more divisions In other words, your situation would be EVEN better

EDIT: I see my dear e-enemy (2ndACR) is here. Sorry about the turn. I'v got a whiplash injury. I swim everyday but I still have this problem. Consequences: sickness

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/9/2011 12:23:39 AM >

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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/9/2011 12:18:37 AM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Very hard going for Armee Gruppe Sued.



Better get a good lawyer....

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Post #: 53
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 2:34:55 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Turn 8 (I am commenting every other turn or when something important happens).

Things are going to get serious. He made some very nice breakthroughs in the south, and to my complete surprise took Kiev. Factories were evacuated though. All but three units from the southern pocket (which isn't really a proper pocket) escaped, units in north pocket appear to be doomed though, but I'll do my best to keep them marginally supplied for some time to keep them fighting.




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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/10/2011 2:43:01 AM >

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 54
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 2:37:50 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Middle Dnepr, he oozed his way over the big river, but didn't get too far. Big concentration of infantry and armor near Gomel. Personally, as I already said, I would never bring my AGM armor here but other players obviously have other ideas. Where does he plan to go with all this metal? North or south?




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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/10/2011 2:43:34 AM >

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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 2:41:06 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
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From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Now he is making you think. That is good. He lost early initiative and it is hard to get it back, but this shows the game's difficulty factor for German play and that one can learn.  I bet the next PBEM he does will be far better.

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(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 56
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 2:41:48 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Leningrad approaches, some breakthroughs even here. Not looking too frightening by Ukrainian standards, but in the north breakthrough like this is like 20 hexes straight cut in the Ukrainian plains.

This is beginning of my turn, later during the turn I readjusted my complete line abandoning that river near Lake Peipus, and taking new positions along river Luga and marshes SW of Novgorod. I also finally invested APs to organize Leningrad Front into 4 nice armies, each taking equal, and not overwhelming command load (24).




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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/10/2011 2:44:39 AM >

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Post #: 57
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 3:11:01 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I am naturally a cautious player and if being cautious leads disaster then I'm really scared of playing as Axis.
IMHO, good game balance should give equal chance of success to cautious and aggressive play styles.  Apparently this game is not like that.
But I guess there is nothing we can do as Axis aggressiveness is a necessity based on the situation and subject matter of the game.

< Message edited by jomni -- 3/10/2011 6:15:38 AM >

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(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 58
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 8:14:15 AM   
Emx77


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From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline 		Oleg, try to plug gap between Novogorod and Bateckaya ASAP. If he is competent player you will find Germans around Kolpino on turn 9-10. And you don't have anything in Leningrad to stop him there.

< Message edited by Emir Agic -- 3/10/2011 8:16:57 AM >

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 59
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 2:31:32 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Emir I bet he will simply try to bulldoze his way towards LG in the NNE direction. I did the psychological profiling on him Anyway I plugged all the holes.

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Post #: 60
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