RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis)

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/9/2011 4:15:39 PM

TulliusDetritus

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I see, thank you, Lava

I have done an extensive overhaul on this turn. The Airforce, all the Army HQs received leaders: infantry ratings are minimum >= 5. Fronts were almost 100% reorganized...

On next turn Volhov Front is here so this means lots of APS. Yes, I need them to form Cavalry Corps but I too must kick some incompetents out of the Front HQs. Which will be done.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 3:24:31 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Turn 23

20 november 1941

Well, I thought he would be trying to form a big pocket in the south, in Stalino area. He didn't

But he's finally captured Stalino itself... and there goes my Armament Industry

This AAR is going to be stopped though. I asked him if he wanted to wait for the 1.04 beta patch before we start the blizzard. After all he is the one who will be in the receiving end, so he should be the one deciding. Fair play

Remember that no matter what, I will be using Big Anorak's blizzard rule. From what BA has said, 1.04 beta won't make a big difference, given that I have done a quite good summer campaign. Yes, the Red Army has now 5,5 million men. So -unless I am an utter incompetent, and maybe that's what I am- in theory 2ndACR should be making testament

The truth is a) I want him to survive and 2) I want him to be able to launch some sort of limited offensive in summer '42.

He also told me that now he would be working more hours per day. Sending turns will be more complicated. I obviously told him that this is NOT a problem. Real life is much more important than this simple game

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 3:57:09 PM

Klydon

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He will need the help. This has not been one of 2ndACR's better campaigns with a lot of mistakes made. He also has an aggressive opponent that hammered him for the mistakes he did make and then some. Be interesting to see how it all turns out. I had wondered if he was busier since he had not been reporting in his side of the AAR.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 4:56:06 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Overall, this has been a quite historical Blitzkrieg. And given that I don't think the Germans are invulnerable at all = the '41 summer campaign was well designed after all. The Soviets should be able to hold Leningrad, Moscow, because if I did it on my two games, everyone should do it (I mean, this should be the rule, not the exception)

Yes, he will be very busy until the end of the year (or was it september?).

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 6:35:33 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Anyway, as I see it Big Anorak's blizzard rule should perhaps stay forever. One of the lessons of the historical Soviet Winter Offensive was the very POOR coordination between the different fronts (which was acknowledged by the Soviets themselves)

In other words, realistically, the Soviets should NOT be able to launch a massive offensive along ALL the front: from the Baltic to the Black Sea. Their historic counterparts could not do that. Big Anorak's rule prefectly simulates the real thing, so that's why I think it should stay.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 7:11:31 PM

PeeDeeAitch

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TD, this has always been my beef with the blizzard - not the huge attrition, not the CV drops, not the fact that fortifications give way easily (three things we have heard over and over), but rather the Soviets can coordinate mass assaults up and down the line.

I got lucky, in part, because I hurt the Soviets so much in my AAR. However, more "normal" losses for the Soviets means the Germans will be hard pressed no matter what if the blizzard means from Leningrad to Stalino the Red Army can just relentlessly attack.

Limiting the coordination, making this part of the game, is what I have always said.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 7:26:25 PM

TulliusDetritus

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PeeDeeAitch, the solution is simple. Every German player should only play the Grand Campaign if the aforementioned blizzard rule is applied

I doubt the Soviet players will desert en masse.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 7:43:51 PM

Encircled

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There must be a way to stimulate lack of cohesion and supply for the Russians in the winter of '41?

I thought 1.04 was aiming to sort that out?

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 7:56:39 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Encircled, BA made it clear that 1.04 would not save my opponent. If I well understood, the better you resist during the summer offensive, the more dangerous the winter offensive will be. And BA also said they did not have enough data yet. I'm afraid this "lack of cohesion and supply" might totally castrate the Winter Offensive. And it should not. The Germans must be trashed, this is yes or yes...

but only in some parts of the front. In the real war, the main blow was against the dangerous units near Moscow. But the offensive near Leningrad was a fiasco.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:04:32 PM

Encircled

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Is it because you are doing well, or because it just won't improve the blizzard chances for the Germans?

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:09:14 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Hmm, if I well understood it is because I did a good summer campaign. Which means... the Germans have to kill more Soviets or... no patch in the world will save them

Still, I want to use Big Anorak's rule because a massive offensive is ahistorical.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:12:15 PM

TulliusDetritus

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This is exactly what he said when I asked him if I should be using his rule and wait for the 1.04 patch:

"We have not seen enough data from the current 1.04 blizzard tests to see what the overall effect of the changes will be.

The same overriding principle applies to 1.03 and 1.04, that the better you do before the blizzard, the better you will do during the blizzard. Having seen your AAR, I think the house rules might help your opponent arrive in 1942 in decent enough shape for him to want to carry on with the game, which is the objective of the house rules"

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/10/2011 8:13:46 PM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:15:53 PM

Encircled

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Ok, then I guess me and my opponent (at the first snow turn now) are going to have to decide what we are going to do!

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:18:50 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In theory the patch will be ready this week or the other one.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:19:12 PM

PeeDeeAitch

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I would base the decision on a couple of factors: How far the Germans have advanced (meaning, how far they can retreat in december if smart) and how much hurt the Red Army had faced (if around 4m casualties, no need for the house rules, unless many of those came well before September).

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:26:44 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Good point PeeDeeAitch, but the Soviets suffered catastrophic losses and had the same an uncoordinated Winter Offensive, with successes here and there. And yes, the Germans were really trashed in those places.

I suspect a German limited offensive (and that's a minimum) during the '42 summer would be perfectly possible in these circumstances.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:34:19 PM

Encircled

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Well, he will probably get Leningrad, but he's not got much further than Smolensk, and he's about four hexes from Kharkov, and about three in front of D-town and Z-town and he's not got the Crimea.

I've over 3 million casulties though

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/10/2011 8:50:41 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Then you're doing very well, Encircled

Even if he captures Leningrad during the snow turns no force in the world will stop you from recapturing this city during the blizzard.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 1:04:03 PM

mmarquo

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TD - I will be surprised if you are not half way back to the original start point by the end of the blizzard; your opponent has left you too much to work with

. Personally I do not like the "house rules." IMHO the Axis player either does his work properly in the summer/fall, or pays the price. I do not think that the absolute number of casualties is as important as the relative balance: at 1:1 the Axis player will fare okay. Several things I have noticed as the attacking Soviet in the first blizzard:

1. Be wary of unready units - after combats many units will "unready" - if you can enough MPs to pull them back for refit, good. These units can't move and attack.
2. Contrary to conventional wisdom, forts will hurt you in the blizzard - the Axis player may get ejected but the losses for the Soviet are nonetheless high.
3. The Soviet will suffer high losses for any attack he loses - make sure you have a chance for success - do not just "click away."

You probably know these things, so excuse me for stating the obvious. I enjoy this AAR.

Thanks,

Marquo

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 2:16:55 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Marquo, I have no idea about the blizzard offensive. I never did it before. I think I am going to read [Soviet] Miller's AAR. One of the first AARs. I need some tips.

Given, that he's only got one more turn, I am going to retreat like 4 or 5 hexes the unready divisions and put them on refit mode.

Yes, I more less know all those things. I still appreciate any advice so thank you

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 3:51:57 PM

PeeDeeAitch

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Remember to never use your cavalry, don't cut off any divisions, and that any advance of more than one hex a month is foolhardy.

Follow these and you will lead the Axis to success!

(oh wait, right, you aren't playing the Axis)

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 4:27:15 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Overall, this has been a quite historical Blitzkrieg. And given that I don't think the Germans are invulnerable at all = the '41 summer campaign was well designed after all. The Soviets should be able to hold Leningrad, Moscow, because if I did it on my two games, everyone should do it (I mean, this should be the rule, not the exception)

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of holding Lgrad, after all it has fallen in almost all of the AARs. The fact that it has not in your two AARs is partly a function of your skills and presumably partly a function of the skills and strategies of your opponents.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 6:59:28 PM

TulliusDetritus

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RIP

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 7:20:06 PM

Josh

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Good job Tullius, would love to see 2ndACR bounce back though after the Blizzard. Ohwell maybe next time then.
And

for the AAR.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/11/2011 8:13:14 PM

pompack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

RIP

I already miss the old sig. It was so appropriate and so educational: very few people even knew old "what's his name"'s name until you educated us. Now he's a non-person again.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 7:53:47 AM

randallw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

I already miss the old sig. It was so appropriate and so educational: very few people even knew old "what's his name"'s name until you educated us. Now he's a non-person again.

And that's the way Stalin wants it.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 10:27:17 PM

Reconvet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

RIP

Sorry to see this game end this soon. I would have wished you to get your part of the fun during first blizzard and all the way to Berlin.

Thanks for your great AAR, you invested a lot of time to give us real good insights in how a solid and active early soviet defense can look like. I hope we'll see more of you in the near future.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 11:45:34 PM

TulliusDetritus

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No no, you got it wrong. I CONTINUE the game. I simply f*ck off to the WitP forum

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 11:48:13 PM

cookie monster

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Your AAR was one of the most read and commented upon in the whole section.

Why are you not continuing?

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 11:51:07 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Simply because I don't feel comfortable here, that's all. I'm no masochist so I leave.

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