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RE: The Battle Of India

 
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RE: The Battle Of India - 5/29/2011 11:42:59 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Don't know Nemo...the more i think of it the more i consider the hypotesis of digging in Karachi...Luckly i still have time to decide. we're now close to forts level 8...

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 721
RE: The Battle Of India - 5/30/2011 7:14:12 AM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Operations will slow down in the upcoming week. Now that Rader has got back home it's time for me to leave for a brief vacation. I should be able to do one turn a day with my lap-top but, with G.F. around 24/hrs a day will be tough to dedicate enough time to the game and to the AAR... (she doesn't understand nor like games...especially THIS game...)

I'll be back fully operational on Sunday

bye guys

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 722
RE: The Battle Of India - 5/30/2011 11:43:09 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

(she doesn't understand nor like games...especially THIS game...)
Neither does mine and I've been married to her for 23 years

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 723
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/2/2011 4:38:01 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I hope GreyJoy's girlfriend realizes she has interrupted this fascinating AAR about Japan rampaging across half the world and possibly preparing to cross the LOD.  He better get back home and resume the game soon. 

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 724
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/3/2011 11:38:11 AM   
Itdepends

 

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Joined: 12/12/2005
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If GreyJoy mentions that quip/fact to his girlfriend he's likely to cross a LOD that's a bit closer to home...........

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 725
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/3/2011 5:01:49 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I hope GreyJoy's girlfriend realizes she has interrupted this fascinating AAR about Japan rampaging across half the world and possibly preparing to cross the LOD.  He better get back home and resume the game soon. 


Maybe he's having nore fun, umm, rampaging with her?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 726
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/4/2011 2:52:46 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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:-D

Hi all,

we're back on track. I wasn't able to do any turn cause, as predicted, GF v. 1.01 (patched) didn't allow me so... we've been sailing in the Med for 4 days and we found some bad weather (wind at more than 40 knots) so it was not exactly the perfect environment to play witp :-)...so it's not 100% her fault

Ok, now i got a wedding party and tonight i'll do the turn...i can however anticipate you that the Battle of India has begun again...with bloody air battles over Karachi...stay tuned

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 727
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 10:37:03 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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July 15-16 1942

Ok guys, here it is. I think it's over in India.

First of all, the A6M3a arrived for the japs and they started to sweep at 25k... i thought our rule was still with max CAP at 20k so i never put my fighters at any higher than 20k...useless to say my fighters got butchered. In just one day (on the 15th there was a bad weather that prevented Japan to fly) we lost 100 planes against his 90 in A2A combat...was a massacre....his units were rested...and he always outnumbered me in the air despite i still had 530 operative fighters...look at the numbers and you'll understand...he sent more than 650 fighters on sweep mission!!! ...and at least 200 of them were flying at 25k...so Dive Dive Dive Dive .

Obviously Luck didn't give me any help cause SS Pickerel managed to put a fish into a jap CV but the torp didn't explode...

The only good news of the day was a rad made by B17s at Cowdpore that destroyed 110 japanese bombers on the ground for not a single loss on my side...


July 17-18 1942
The weather was good and the massacre reached never seen proportions...200 fighter lost on my side against only 180 of his...now the KB positioned herself in a good position and fired 200 zeros on sweep...so we faced today nearly 900 fighters on sweep...and for the first time the operational losses were in his favour despite the distances covered by his planes...it's really over...with this pace i'll be without any air cover within a week

Rader is a very educated and sporty opponent. He apologised for having misunderstood our HR and asked me if i wanted to redo the turn with all the planes at 20k...i thanked him and said that it's ok to start with this new rule (max alt= second best mnvr altitude)...I hate the idea of a re-do. **** happens in war so i take this as an accident of war.
However now i have only 30 fighters (15 P-38s and 15 Hurri mkIIc) that can go higher than 20k...the end is really near.

Will start to send some brit squadrons back now...useless to keep squadrons with 5 planes and no replacements (my hurricanes pool has gone dry).

We had a intel message saying that the 3rd Tank rgt was at 44-19...that means just one hex south of the LOD...i decided to pay a visit to that hex even if we didn't have any direct recon on it...the intel was good and we found a tank army composed of 10 tank units...without any air cover his tanks were badly mauled by wellingtons and b-17s...nothing that can change the war but a little marginal victory on my side

Now the KB is parked 9 hexes west of Karachi, along with a strong BB TF...i really think this means the end of my hopes in India...i cannot hope to break the blockade once the LOD is crossed cause without any air cover Karachi will not be able to deny its air space to his KB or his betties...oh well, nothing much to say. We'll keep on fighting till the end and we won't give up! He's gonna take Karachi...ok...but he will have to pay for every inch of ground gained!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 728
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 10:41:53 AM   
Nemo121


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You should take the redo. This misunderstanding on the first two days of the offensive has allowed him to break your back. It'll still happen but you are very foolish if you don't force a redo.

I think it strange this happened at the start of a large aerial offensive. Planes don't set themselves to 25,000 feet.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 729
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 11:01:32 AM   
String


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From: Estonia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

You should take the redo. This misunderstanding on the first two days of the offensive has allowed him to break your back. It'll still happen but you are very foolish if you don't force a redo.

I think it strange this happened at the start of a large aerial offensive. Planes don't set themselves to 25,000 feet.


+1

_____________________________

Surface combat TF fanboy

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 730
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 11:23:43 AM   
GreyJoy


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I see your point but i think it would not be a gentleman behaviour of me if i asked for a re-do now that i've seen the results (bad).
I went back and read again our e-mails and i have to say that the misunderstanding was more than possible. When, like 2 months ago, someone here in this AAR suggested me to ask for a change on the HR rule that limits the alt at 20k i talked about that with Rader and then we simply dropped the conversation about that without taking a real decision...so i thought everything remained with the old HR, while Rader has thought we changed it to the "second mnvr alt"...that's why he waited so much to start the offensive because he wanted to fill his zero units with the A6M3a that could go higher than 20k... So planes don't set themselfs to 25k. Rader simply thought that new rule was operating while i was not aware of that.
However Nemo the second 2 days i set my P-38s and my Hurri IIc to 31k and things didn't really changed so i don't think that was a game breaker. In fact if i had agreed with that rule since the beginnning i don't think results would have been much different.
Unfortunately, as you have clearly predicted some time ago, plain numbers ara making the difference here. He simply has too much to throw at me and what is really killing me is the different replacements ratio. With his ability of outproduce me 10 to 1 in terms of airframes nothing really does matter at this point. My pools are getting dry fast and all my attempts to scrape the bottom of the barrell, stopping taking replacements of any other units around the map doesn't really change the fact that i cannot sustain the loss of 300 airframes in 4 days. Plain and simple. I went back reading Rader's AAR "taming the bear" and it was clear that Japan, even against Soviet Union, can sustain an incredible amount of losses without losing its mighty power.

That's a fact that i cannot change. Not anymore. I should have done differently in the past probably but now that's what i have and what i have to live with.

I'll do my best to make this nut the hardest possible to be cracked for Rader but i think there's no doubt that, in the end, Rader will be able to break my defences.

The Kind is Dead, Long Live the King!

(in reply to String)
Post #: 731
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 11:39:36 AM   
GreyJoy


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Last 2 days of Air Battles




Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 732
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 11:59:30 AM   
Nemo121


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Ungentlemanly to ask for a redo now that you've seen the result?

Seriously, you need to be clearer about your House Rules and you need to ask for a redo so that you were BOTH operating under the same understanding... Let him fly at 25,000 feet and you just up your altitude accordingly.


As to it not making a difference.... That is a reflection on your understanding of the A2A combat model. B339s and Hurris can easily take down Zeroes when using the right altitude bands and an appropriate mix of high altitude fighters to take advantage of the low bait. Again though, if you are interested in ploughing ahead with your own ideas instead of good advice then so be it.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 6/5/2011 12:03:46 PM >


_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 733
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 1:44:25 PM   
GreyJoy


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Excuse me Nemo but the suggestion to ask for a redo it's not an in-game suggestion that i do avoid to listen. We're now talking about "relations" between players and it's a completely different subject.

I'd be gratefull if you were more precise about the right different altitudes.
Now i've changed my "alt bands" in the following way:

P-39s (2 groups of 25 each): at 9k
Kittihawks, Buffalos and Mohawks: at 15k
P-40s: between 15k and 20k
Hurricanes Ia,IIb: at 20k
Hurricanes IIc and P-38s: at 31k

Is that right? I watched all those combat replays and it seems that his sweeping planes do not lose alt when diving on my planes...while my fighters always struggle to climb up to 25k resulting in a constant "dive process" of the zeros.

Is there anything you guys suggest me to get some better results in A2A combat?

Fatigue is well below 20 and morale is everywhere above 60...luckly their spirit is higher than mine

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 734
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 3:32:46 PM   
GreyJoy


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Ok, orders were given. We lowered the "rest" to 10% in order to reach a decent number of planes in the air for tomorrow fightings (we now have 350 fighters instead of the 530 of 4 days ago)...

We also decided not to attack again his tanks at 44,19 cause i fear a strong LRCAP over there now. We'll try to ambush him at Indore...i hope Rader will move some planes there in order to LRCAP his tanks on the LOD and considering Cowpore isn't active anymore Indore remains the third most important japanese airfield in India (Being Surat and Baghawhatever the first twos). I hope at Indore the flak will be less powerfull...

finger crossed

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 735
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 3:51:40 PM   
dekwik


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From: Atlanta
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Don't forget, he still has to conquer Karachi and you have a lot of AV there. Once he crosses the LOD you add the Waziristan Div for another 300AV.

Supplies at Karachi may be the biggest problem long term. Have you drawn everything there already?

Do you have any activity planned in the South Pac that Rader will care about? I doubt it. And even if you do he gets to use the Netty defence.

So how about bringing the cavalry to take back Diego Garcia? It's quite a hike, but 30-40 days or so from now (?)an amphib convoy lands there from the worm hole, with the CV's one hex behind. If you bring the kitchen sink you'll quickly have a great airbase, minefields etc.60,000 troops, 5 Port and 6 airbase potential. Now Rader has to cover two mice with his KB cat. If you can combine a timely relief convoy for Karachi it makes his blockade much more difficult.

It's time for your Winston Churchill speech to India. Great AAR by the way.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 736
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 4:43:20 PM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dekwik

Don't forget, he still has to conquer Karachi and you have a lot of AV there. Once he crosses the LOD you add the Waziristan Div for another 300AV.

Supplies at Karachi may be the biggest problem long term. Have you drawn everything there already?

Do you have any activity planned in the South Pac that Rader will care about? I doubt it. And even if you do he gets to use the Netty defence.

So how about bringing the cavalry to take back Diego Garcia? It's quite a hike, but 30-40 days or so from now (?)an amphib convoy lands there from the worm hole, with the CV's one hex behind. If you bring the kitchen sink you'll quickly have a great airbase, minefields etc.60,000 troops, 5 Port and 6 airbase potential. Now Rader has to cover two mice with his KB cat. If you can combine a timely relief convoy for Karachi it makes his blockade much more difficult.

It's time for your Winston Churchill speech to India. Great AAR by the way.


Thx for the kind words Dekwik.
I still have nearly 6000 AVs prepped for Karachi and about 470,000 supplies there with forts level 8. It will however be a real big nut to chew for Rader, that's for sure. The delay allowed me to grow a lot in terms of strenght and supplies so maybe that was probably the only mistake Rader has done so far. if he had gone for the jugular immediately Karachi probably would already be in his hands.

Diego Garcia....don't think i'm not thinking every day about a way to save India. Scodra would be very important too...possibly even strategically more important...however he left several good units there (Intel told me) and the presence of Netties and zeros, along with the KB really scares me out.
I can easily see my CVs being worn out by his LBA zeros and betties, while, a couple of turns later, comes the KB and blows up everything...

I still have everything prepped for the Bonins. Troops are ready at PH and Christmas Island. I'm waiting for some more fuel to come in (have consumed a HUGE amount of fuel during the aborted Gilberts operation).
I have already changed plans too many times and dont wanna waste those prep points for Iwo...
I'll now wait for my CVs to upgrade at PH (still few days away) and then i'll be ready

Now that the KB is far away i wanna try again. The objective will be double: Bonins (with 2000 AVs) and the Gilberts with 1000 AVs. I still haven't abbandoned the idea of getting to Tarawa and pushing back his southern perimeter, but for sure the Bonins, if conquered, will put a serious problem to Rader cause the presence in the second half of 42 of a strong allied base right in the middle of his comm lines with sopac may vanish his conquest in the far west.

Intel says he's sending lots of forces to Timor and Banda sea area...

(in reply to dekwik)
Post #: 737
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 5:49:13 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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July 19-20 1942

Seems that despite all my efforts i'm really not up to the task of playing this game decently.

For some unknown and uncomprehensible (sp) reasons all my fighters stood down today, resulting in japanese bombers coming again for Karachi AF (after weeks of resting) and destroying all my fighters on the ground.
I'm pretty sure the mistake was due to the changing CAP/rest process...i must have screwed it all up

The raid at Indore went poorly. One day my bombers were grounded due to bad weather and the next day we just found a bunch on Nicks on CAP...no gain for some losses on my side for sure.

What is really driving me crazy is the inconsistency of my AA...

Look at this result: he sent 300 bombers over Karachi at 20k and my flak didn't damage a single enemy bomber!!!! I'm not talking about shooting them down...i'm talking about damaging!!!...and at Karachi i have at least 120 3.7MkII...with a cieling superior than 20k... My 4Es get chewed at Surat at 22k and his Sallies can avoid my flak without problems...that's really really weird

Ok, my morale is very low now...but i only have myself to blame so it's better to slap my face twice and then digging in again!




(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 738
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 7:35:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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GreyJoy, your morale swings are totally consistent with what we'd expect for a fairly new player under great pressure.  But you don't need to be down on yourself nearly as much as you are:

1)  Your air losses have actually be very good for an Allied player in mid 1942 in Scenario Two.  There are experienced Allied players that have been looking at your ratios - even those you've bemoaned over the past six days - and said, "Wow, I wish i could get close to 1:1 against Japan!"  You've bled rader badly through the air.

2)  Rader made a humongous mistake letting you have two months to build and supply at Karachi.  I don't know where the KB at the time, but as we've said before, he should have come for Karachi immediately. 

3)  As a relatively new player, you're probably not seeing the big picture very well.  That's really going to hamper you in any operation in the Bonins, Marshals, etc.  Even if you succeed in such an operation, you may not know how to make use of it effectively, so that rader just isolates your lodgements and comes back to deal with them later when his ships are available.  Taking Iwo Jima and other islands doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to make use of them, your enemy ignores it, and then comes later with overwhelming force to reclaim them.

4)  Before you commit to any operation in the Pacific, you need to ask yourself questions about India.  Must you have your carriers there to thwart rader from imposing an airtight blockade?  It may be too late to be asking yourself this question, but I'd be looking at it from all angles.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/5/2011 7:36:47 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 739
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/5/2011 9:09:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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I agree plus you get a lot of force when he crosses the line - an Armoured Div, 5 Inf Divs, Corps HQ, Corps Engr Regt and a special convoy with a full Div set of replacement arty, and equivalent to 4 Bdes worth of Infantry replacements (if it was post the data patch) you also get 72 Hurricanes, 72 Spitfires, 36 Vengeance, 72 Wellingtons and 24 Catalinas.

The Spits are Spit VIII's not Vc's so just make sure you somehow get them in the air with decent pilots and watch his losses increase....

Do not underestimate the CP cost if he donest garrison his LOC in India a lot of the bases he has captured will need a full Div to garrison e.g. Calcutta and Madras both need a Div more or less thats a lot of firepower to tie down in th erear areas

To take Karachi with 500k supply lvl 8 forts and 6,000 AV will require a force of 25+ Divs he simple cannot afford that committment just think it through a single Japanese Div needs about 1,500 supply per month in combat double it so say 3,000 now assume wastage to get to the front and an allowance to repair damaged devices lets say 5,000 supply per month per Div has to arrive that means he needs 100,000 to 150,000 supply per month before taking account of the air force or thefuel he will need and it wont be a quick battle.

So what you need to be doing is sending subs into the bay of bengal to harass his convoys, mining the malacca strait heavily every chance you get, using the RN operating out its secure bases in small TF's of 2 - 3 ships to make him supply from the south coast you need to stretch his logistics tot he limit and keep on hitting it - India is a quagmire for the Japanese in AE hamsting him keep him low on supply and when the timer is reight use those 5+ Divs to land somewhere behind him.

If 6,000 AV cannot hold its not likely 8,000 will so dont commit the forces you are about to get hold them back for your Inchon landing after you have bled him.

Think big how does he get that army back in position if in a years time after he has beld white besieging Karachi you land XXI Indian Corps and I Australian Corps into Sumarte and Georgetown closing the malacca strait at thqat point he is screwed.

He need to finish karacvhi quickly or he is so overextended its game over and he loses

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 740
The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/6/2011 12:13:08 AM   
GreyJoy


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First of all thx CR and AndyMac! Very usefull observations.

But before responding and talking about tactics...i'd like to share with you this incredible 2days of battles over Karachi.
Numbers are hard to be believed. 186 losses on my side and...503 on his side!. I've lost 35 pilots but i don't wanna guess how many brave Saburo he has lost today...
His usual sweeps went in pretty well and badly demolish my CAP. However when it came the horde of 300 bombers escorted by 200 oscars my fighters were re-directed almost immediately towards the bombers and chewed them up badly!
His bombings at Karachi AF have been unsignificant...9 planes lost on the ground...even if flak was less than a nuisance for him as usual.
The KB, instead of the usual sweep-aid, send his bombers against my SCTFs parked at Karachi...i got two CLs pretty badly damaged by his Vals but that was all...and he paid an heavy price in terms of KB crews of zeros, Vals and Kates. Luckly my DDs were able to avoid easily his bombs and my fighters, despite the horrible losses taken in these 2 days, managed to outclass his escorts.
But now the problem...the big problem is that i scraped all my pools...and they're empty! Nothing is left of P-40s, P-39s,P38s or hurricanes.
Anyway, a good day. he cannot sustain these losses for too long. Our new disposition went really good with p-39s acting as baits at very low level... Mohawks performed in a great way and the p-38 squadron reached the incredible kill ratio of 8-1!!.

He's now moving 30 units up to 44,19...which is where we attacked his tank army two days ago...he's massing his troops on the border of the LOD south of Jodpur...he's almost ready to attack!

I know it's boring...but i'd really like to share with you this combat report...

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jul 21, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first usual sweeps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 8
Buffalo I x 16
Hurricane IIa Trop x 11
Hurricane IIb Trop x 47
Hurricane IIc Trop x 39
Mohawk IV x 14
Kittyhawk IA x 10
Kittyhawk IA x 9
P-38E Lightning x 16
P-39D Airacobra x 28
P-40E Warhawk x 125


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 30,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 39



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 8
Buffalo I x 16
Hurricane IIa Trop x 11
Hurricane IIb Trop x 45
Hurricane IIc Trop x 39
Mohawk IV x 13
Kittyhawk IA x 8
Kittyhawk IA x 8
P-38E Lightning x 15
P-39D Airacobra x 27
P-40E Warhawk x 117


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
22 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 25000 feet


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 39



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 8
Buffalo I x 14
Hurricane IIa Trop x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 41
Hurricane IIc Trop x 35
Mohawk IV x 12
Kittyhawk IA x 8
Kittyhawk IA x 6
P-38E Lightning x 13
P-39D Airacobra x 20
P-40E Warhawk x 105


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
29 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 21



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 7
Buffalo I x 13
Hurricane IIa Trop x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 38
Hurricane IIc Trop x 31
Mohawk IV x 10
Kittyhawk IA x 8
Kittyhawk IA x 5
P-38E Lightning x 11
P-39D Airacobra x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 94


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 25000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 32



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 7
Buffalo I x 12
Hurricane IIa Trop x 9
Hurricane IIb Trop x 31
Hurricane IIc Trop x 28
Mohawk IV x 8
Kittyhawk IA x 6
Kittyhawk IA x 4
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 14
P-40E Warhawk x 86


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 20000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 23



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 7
Buffalo I x 12
Hurricane IIa Trop x 9
Hurricane IIb Trop x 26
Hurricane IIc Trop x 27
Mohawk IV x 7
Kittyhawk IA x 4
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 11
P-40E Warhawk x 79


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 20000 feet *


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 37



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 6
Buffalo I x 11
Hurricane IIa Trop x 9
Hurricane IIb Trop x 24
Hurricane IIc Trop x 24
Mohawk IV x 4
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 11
P-40E Warhawk x 71


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
22 x A6M3 Zero sweeping at 25000 feet *


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then it came the HORDE
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 189 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 59
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 117
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 125
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 115



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 5
Buffalo I x 11
Hurricane IIa Trop x 8
Hurricane IIb Trop x 21
Hurricane IIc Trop x 14
Mohawk IV x 4
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 59


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 10 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 15 destroyed, 17 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 11 destroyed, 24 damaged
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground



Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
all bombers bombing from 20000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 176 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 25



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 5
Buffalo I x 11
Hurricane IIa Trop x 8
Hurricane IIb Trop x 18
Hurricane IIc Trop x 11
Mohawk IV x 4
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 7
P-40E Warhawk x 49


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 20000 feet *


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 181 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 57 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 50



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 5
Buffalo I x 9
Hurricane IIa Trop x 8
Hurricane IIb Trop x 17
Hurricane IIc Trop x 11
Mohawk IV x 3
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 8
P-39D Airacobra x 5
P-40E Warhawk x 44


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 14 destroyed

No Allied losses


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Karachi at 37,10

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 133 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30
D3A1 Val x 15



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Panther
CL Caledon, Bomb hits 4, on fire
DD Napier


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Karachi at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 176 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 75 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 85
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 13



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 3
Buffalo I x 8
Hurricane IIa Trop x 6
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
Hurricane IIc Trop x 10
Mohawk IV x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 6
P-39D Airacobra x 5
P-40E Warhawk x 43


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 15 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 31



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 3
Buffalo I x 8
Hurricane IIa Trop x 2
Hurricane IIb Trop x 13
Hurricane IIc Trop x 9
Mohawk IV x 1
Kittyhawk IA x 2
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 4
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 36


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 2
Buffalo I x 5
Hurricane IIa Trop x 1
Hurricane IIb Trop x 9
Hurricane IIc Trop x 6
Kittyhawk IA x 1
Kittyhawk IA x 2
P-38E Lightning x 2
P-39D Airacobra x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 26


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Karachi at 40,8

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 175 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 65 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 104
B5N2 Kate x 14
D3A1 Val x 38



Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 2
Buffalo I x 2
Hurricane IIa Trop x 4
Hurricane IIb Trop x 9
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
Mohawk IV x 3
Kittyhawk IA x 1
Kittyhawk IA x 1
P-38E Lightning x 4
P-39D Airacobra x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 18


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Java, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CL Emerald
AM Cromer, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Van Ghent
CL Tromp
DD Evertsen
ML No. 230



AND THAT IS JUST ONE OF THE TWO DAYS OF BATTLE!!!!





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 741
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/6/2011 12:31:33 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 742
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 12:57:14 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I agree plus you get a lot of force when he crosses the line - an Armoured Div, 5 Inf Divs, Corps HQ, Corps Engr Regt and a special convoy with a full Div set of replacement arty, and equivalent to 4 Bdes worth of Infantry replacements (if it was post the data patch) you also get 72 Hurricanes, 72 Spitfires, 36 Vengeance, 72 Wellingtons and 24 Catalinas.

The Spits are Spit VIII's not Vc's so just make sure you somehow get them in the air with decent pilots and watch his losses increase....

Do not underestimate the CP cost if he donest garrison his LOC in India a lot of the bases he has captured will need a full Div to garrison e.g. Calcutta and Madras both need a Div more or less thats a lot of firepower to tie down in th erear areas

To take Karachi with 500k supply lvl 8 forts and 6,000 AV will require a force of 25+ Divs he simple cannot afford that committment just think it through a single Japanese Div needs about 1,500 supply per month in combat double it so say 3,000 now assume wastage to get to the front and an allowance to repair damaged devices lets say 5,000 supply per month per Div has to arrive that means he needs 100,000 to 150,000 supply per month before taking account of the air force or thefuel he will need and it wont be a quick battle.

So what you need to be doing is sending subs into the bay of bengal to harass his convoys, mining the malacca strait heavily every chance you get, using the RN operating out its secure bases in small TF's of 2 - 3 ships to make him supply from the south coast you need to stretch his logistics tot he limit and keep on hitting it - India is a quagmire for the Japanese in AE hamsting him keep him low on supply and when the timer is reight use those 5+ Divs to land somewhere behind him.

If 6,000 AV cannot hold its not likely 8,000 will so dont commit the forces you are about to get hold them back for your Inchon landing after you have bled him.

Think big how does he get that army back in position if in a years time after he has beld white besieging Karachi you land XXI Indian Corps and I Australian Corps into Sumarte and Georgetown closing the malacca strait at thqat point he is screwed.

He need to finish karacvhi quickly or he is so overextended its game over and he loses


That is those kind of infos that really can change my mind Andy, thanks!
So you're basically sayin: forget about bringing the reinforcement divisions from Aden to Karachi. Too risky. Dig in Karachi and wait to use those units later in the game for a big landing behind enemy lines! Brave!
But don't you think that 6 divisions can really change the land war in India (meaning save Karachi) if i manage to bring them into the sub-continent?

And what is a "CP" cost? you mean the victory points lost for not garrisoning?

In August i'm starting to get 65 P40K each month and some 25 P-38Fs...hopefully these new toys will have a decent impact on the Indian air war...

Ok, too tired now...here it's 2 o'clock in the morning and tomorrow i got a full day. Night gents

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 743
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 1:10:56 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
"CP" is a typo, he meant VP.

If you start to withdraw squadrons in India that are overdue those pilots and planes will go to the pools and save you the penalty VPs.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 744
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 8:15:10 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
July 23,24 1942

Two more days of battle over Karachi. Two more days of glory and pain.
Our CAP, despite the terrible losses of the week, managed to achieve an amazing 3-1 kill ratio, savaging Japanese bombers that are now really starting to suffer the terrible losses of the last 6 days. Overall losses have been high on both sides. 111 on my side and 278 on his...
At the same time our 4Es attacked the enemy's army at 44,19 but paid an heavy price against a fierce LRCAP made up by Ki-45 Nicks.
The KB sent again his bombers against my CLs at Karachi...didn't score a single hit but suffered heavy losses with his escort and bombers.
It seems that the shield of the japanese fighters(shield that prevented me during the first days of battle in May to achieve a single hit on his bombers when heavily escorted) is getting less effective and, at the same time, my fighters are able to get through the escort more easily.
Rader confirmed me that his pools are getting dry too...and i bet his pilots pool is suffering a lot...i lost only 15 pilots today...Still have nearly 300 fighters at Karachi...but these are really the last ones...
I also think he's ready to cross the LOD...no other reason to park 35 units at 44,19 exposed to my bombers. We've been bombing today the 1st guard Divisions and the 4th Guards regiment...he's defenetly ready to cross.
The KB remains parked there...7 hexes west of Karachi...my subs are desperately trying to get to her but she's always been able to avoid them...however the last days clearly taught me that even the almighty KB may have problems against a stiff land base defence

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 745
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 8:25:08 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 746
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 8:56:49 AM   
DOCUP


Posts: 3073
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline
Nice AAR Grey really enjoying it.

doc

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 747
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 10:30:11 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
From a Churchill's speech to the Karachi Fortress Commander( May 15 1942):

"...The so called the Battle of India is over. I expect that the Battle of Karachi is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization in the Indies and the survival of our most precious jewel. upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us now. Tojo knows that he will have to break us in this city or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all India may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, "This was their finest hour."

(in reply to DOCUP)
Post #: 748
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 10:56:44 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GreyJoy, your morale swings are totally consistent with what we'd expect for a fairly new player under great pressure.  But you don't need to be down on yourself nearly as much as you are:

1)  Your air losses have actually be very good for an Allied player in mid 1942 in Scenario Two.  There are experienced Allied players that have been looking at your ratios - even those you've bemoaned over the past six days - and said, "Wow, I wish i could get close to 1:1 against Japan!"  You've bled rader badly through the air.

2)  Rader made a humongous mistake letting you have two months to build and supply at Karachi.  I don't know where the KB at the time, but as we've said before, he should have come for Karachi immediately. 

3)  As a relatively new player, you're probably not seeing the big picture very well.  That's really going to hamper you in any operation in the Bonins, Marshals, etc.  Even if you succeed in such an operation, you may not know how to make use of it effectively, so that rader just isolates your lodgements and comes back to deal with them later when his ships are available.  Taking Iwo Jima and other islands doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to make use of them, your enemy ignores it, and then comes later with overwhelming force to reclaim them.

4)  Before you commit to any operation in the Pacific, you need to ask yourself questions about India.  Must you have your carriers there to thwart rader from imposing an airtight blockade?  It may be too late to be asking yourself this question, but I'd be looking at it from all angles.


Concerning point 3 and 4:
I get your point CR. Actually till now in 8 months of war i wasn't able to do anything consistent in the pacific, despite i had plenty of time and resources. In fact i've been almost overwhelmed by the logistic in the pacific and the plans switching has greatly slowed down my capacity of conducing even a limited offensive.
However it seems to me that this is the only window i have to do something. If i wait more (let's say beginning of 43) the scenario may be really much more different (with Rader master of India and his winning troops coming back to garrison every single dot base in the pacific). For sure i know nothing about how to distrupt his comm lines once taken the Bonins...but i think i'll have to learn it the hard way on the field.
Carriers in India? Well...now that the Kb has been seriorusly harmed I'd love to have them at CT ready to come into action...however they're at PH now...and bringing them to CT would mean lose another 2 months...they could arrive when it's too late...once Rader will conquer Hyderabad he won't need the KB no more...and i'm pretty sure once he crosses the LOD he'll be as fast as usual to rush towards Jodpur and Hyderabad... No, i think i've already lost that chance long time ago. Now i need my CVs to cover my pacific operations. Without them i cannot hope to defend my transports from the Netties...


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 749
RE: The Battle Of India - 6/6/2011 10:56:54 AM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline
are you also gonna fight "on the beaches, on the landing grounds - until in God's good time, the new worlds, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old" ?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 750
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