RE: REEK, rhymes with what?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: REEK, rhymes with what?

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RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 3:49:08 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

Obvert,
we have already tried that kind of "bluffs" in the past and all of them ended up simply in a material loss for the allies, with Rader that didn't "overreact" nor lost his mind. We tried two different invasions in CENTPAC (Tarawa and Marcus-Wake-Iwo) when Rader was fully committed with his Indian gamble. We found well prepared oppositions, with enough troops dug in to repulse a not overwhelming allied effort.

As you can see from the map i attached, Rader has garrisoned The Adamans, Diego, Scoodra, southern DEI, The Mariannas, Kuriles and Marcus/Wake since their conquests.
He also has regiments sitting in Cocos and Christmas.
He knows which are the "hot spots" for an allied counteroffensive and he has devoted assets and energies to occupy them and garrison them with just enough troops to avoid an "easy conquest", so to give him space and time to mount a counteroffensive.

Thanks for the map. Clarifies some things.

I get it, and I remember the Central Pacific tries from earlier that didn't go so well.

I completely agree you should be preparing for something major by getting units in the right places and preparing for the autumn advances. I wasn't advocating another BIG invasion.

You're the player, and you know the lay of the land better than us. What I mean to suggest are small raids, using few ships, small land units, finding little areas to poke at him so he doesn't know anymore where you're going to hit. As the Allied player in 43 you should be jabbing a bit. Try out your left just to make him hold his hands up and so he doesn't know when or where the right is going to land.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2581

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 3:56:06 PM

princep01

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Reek. You have gotten much strategic advice from many. Most of that advice is good, especially the "Do not lollygag around" advice. However, as your master, I come today to wake you from your slumber among the girls to whisper a word of tactical advice. Listen carefully, my Reek.

1. That TF you have running about bombarding an empty airfield....yes, that one. The one with the CA Hawkins in it. Check carefully , Reek. I think the Hawkins is an older CA that has no business among ships like BB Massachusetts and CA Wichita. If memory serves me well, the presence of a ship like that in a TF can have dire consequences if the LYBs decide to fight a surface battle. Check that ship out and, if I am correct, substitute a more modern vessel to avoid those dire consequences.

2. Stop diddling about. By-pass those strongly held islands immediately in front of you in the Solomons and conduct offensive ops against more vulnerable ones BEHIND them. To put this is a perspective you may understand, do NOT attack a strongly held Winterfell when you can more easily take lightly held Dreadfort and cut Winterfell off from supply and communication. That is the soul of island-hopping.

Now, get hopping and stop basking in the glory of having won a battle over his air force (he is quickly restoring it while you have no followup to that punch). And, while you are at it, round up the starving remanent on Tulagi, securing that base for good, and get the units there prepped for other tasks ahead. Your sitting on your thumbs. Stop or I assure you, you will have no thumbs when I return from my "vacation".

Princep Bolton

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2582

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 5:37:20 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Reek. You have gotten much strategic advice from many. Most of that advice is good, especially the "Do not lollygag around" advice. However, as your master, I come today to wake you from your slumber among the girls to whisper a word of tactical advice. Listen carefully, my Reek.

1. That TF you have running about bombarding an empty airfield....yes, that one. The one with the CA Hawkins in it. Check carefully , Reek. I think the Hawkins is an older CA that has no business among ships like BB Massachusetts and CA Wichita. If memory serves me well, the presence of a ship like that in a TF can have dire consequences if the LYBs decide to fight a surface battle. Check that ship out and, if I am correct, substitute a more modern vessel to avoid those dire consequences.

2. Stop diddling about. By-pass those strongly held islands immediately in front of you in the Solomons and conduct offensive ops against more vulnerable ones BEHIND them. To put this is a perspective you may understand, do NOT attack a strongly held Winterfell when you can more easily take lightly held Dreadfort and cut Winterfell off from supply and communication. That is the soul of island-hopping.

Now, get hopping and stop basking in the glory of having won a battle over his air force (he is quickly restoring it while you have no followup to that punch). And, while you are at it, round up the starving remanent on Tulagi, securing that base for good, and get the units there prepped for other tasks ahead. Your sitting on your thumbs. Stop or I assure you, you will have no thumbs when I return from my "vacation".

Princep Bolton

My Master, as you prefer, as you order, as you wish.

Seriously i know the limits of CA Hawkins. I'm using her intensively cause, despite her terrible endurance (6,000), and her little caliber (7,5 inches with low penetration), she has torpedoes and her crew is very experienced (70/74) both at day and at night. I use her as an Omaha Class CL...for her torps. My Cleveland Class CLs are good, but without torps it's difficult to hope to face a CA/BB enemy TF...

About the thumbs to sit upon...:-) ...i understand you get the idea that i'm doing simply nothing and i'm not following up the latest aerial and ground victories, but to be honest i think i'm doing lot of things in order to prepare and get ready for my future advances.
The constant bombings of Russell, Thousands and Auki are intended to keep those threatening bases closed and "not safe" for his air forces. In fact the front has "de facto" been moved back to the line of Rekata Bay-Munda. I'm been considering a lot the idea of skipping the line Russell-Thousands-Auki, but that "triple-position" is too strong to simply bypass it and don't have yet the means to keep them shut and isolated at the same time while mounting up an offensive operation. consider also that the invasion of Thousands have the very good charachteristic of been doable without the CV support (using TLT as a big supporting carrier providing both CAP and offensive bombers).

Anyway, also in response to Obvert, the "multi front" offensive should exactly have that advantage, so to say that if these offensives are started with the right timing, they can be used to unbalance him and force him to divide his efforts on different fronts.

(in reply to princep01)

Post #: 2583

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 5:48:05 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys,� first of all thanks again!

Secondly i'd like you to refrain from using terms like "arrogance" related to Rader's style of play. It's not fair, even if it's just a "word". Rader has always been a very good and sportman opponent and his gentlemanship has been shown to me in several occasions. The fact that he tried to push me out of the map �is just part of the "role-game" we're playing!

Well said. Rader holds all of China (very big deal) and virtually all of India (almost a clean sweep) His play has not been too shoddy even if if differs from what we all like to see. He is no slouch...If he has made some mistakes, I see none of them as being fatal.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2584

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 6:00:19 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulkenny

"And our CVs are getting ready.... "

A George McClellan quote if I have ever heard one!

Use em or lose em my good man.

Hopefully you are taking this in the good humor it is meant.� Really enjoying your AAR and especially appreciate your good sportsmanship and patience with all the monday morning admirals around here.

You guys are not paying attention. GJ has incurred "massive" losses in surface ships and others in turning back Rader's well orchestrated advance. Go back in the AAR and take a look. Now you are urging him to risk his one remaining serious naval asset (carriers) at at point where he does not really need to or should want to. Scen #2 allows Rader to practically match him in carriers until the end of the year and outproduce him in all types of aircraft. Give him a little room to rebuild up his fleet. He will need an infusion of DDs and CAs. If he were to lose a carrier battle at this point Rader could actually go back on the offensive for the rest of 1943. The great thing about India and the Solomons is that GJ has a hold on Rader where he can fight him without great risk to his fleet. My two cents anyways.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2585

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 7:07:31 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

July 30, 31 1943

Our bombardment TF at Rekata wasn't lucky...we didn't get a single one of the 200 and more planes present there...

One of our subs finally sunk an enemy xAK that was moving in a big convoy south west of Rabaul...seems that the ship was empty...Rader is doing something...i still don't get what!

Intel says another Mix Bde is being moved to Adaman Islands... and a guards regiment to Diego...

As far as i can tell at Diego there are 2 regiments right now, an Army HQ and a combat Eng regiment.
Scoodra should have 1 division, an Army HQ, an Air HQ and some construction BNs for sure... i see some high level forts there...

he has massed again 1300 fighters beyond the "Munda Line"... a future battle is coming for sure...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Rekata Bay at 113,134

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
CA Astoria
CA Salt Lake City
CA Chester
CA Houston
CA Northampton
CA Indianapolis
DD Shaw
DD Mahan
DD Craven
DD Helm
DD Morris
DD Anderson
DD Gansevoort

Airbase hits 25
Airbase supply hits 14
Runway hits 87
Port hits 31
Port supply hits 6

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 2586

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 7:12:57 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulkenny

"And our CVs are getting ready.... "

A George McClellan quote if I have ever heard one!

Use em or lose em my good man.

Hopefully you are taking this in the good humor it is meant.� Really enjoying your AAR and especially appreciate your good sportsmanship and patience with all the monday morning admirals around here.

You guys are not paying attention. GJ has incurred "massive" losses in surface ships and others in turning back Rader's well orchestrated advance. Go back in the AAR and take a look. Now you are urging him to risk his one remaining serious naval asset (carriers) at at point where he does not really need to or should want to. Scen #2 allows Rader to practically match him in carriers until the end of the year and outproduce him in all types of aircraft. Give him a little room to rebuild up his fleet. He will need an infusion of DDs and CAs. If he were to lose a carrier battle at this point Rader could actually go back on the offensive for the rest of 1943. The great thing about India and the Solomons is that GJ has a hold on Rader where he can fight him without great risk to his fleet. My two cents anyways.

And i cannot but agree with you mate. I lost nearly every single one of the old BBs (only 3 are left) and a number of DDs, CAs, CLs ect... i understand the public wants some "blood" now, as the allied pubblic opinion strongly wanted a reaction in RL, but we need to remain "wise".... my 0.2 cents

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 2587

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 8:48:37 PM

paulkenny

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

I realize you have taken casualties, I have followed the AAR (read the 1st 70 pages or so a couple of weeks ago and following diligently since).� You, though, have been inflicting serious casualties on Rader.� You have decimated his air force.� it is high time you grabbed a hold of him and ground him into dirt.� You will take losses, sure, but you will inflict more or even the same on him.� And those are replacements he cannot easily (in terms of airplanes, transport and light naval) or cannot possibly (in terms of CA and heavier ships), replace.

You are being McClellan, worrying every detail, taking a slow and methodical course, waiting until everything is perfect.� And what happened?� he got his butt handed to him in the 7 Days battle, the ultimate transcendance of one general over another.� Complete and utter destruction of a commanding general's morale, despite having overwhelming numerical and material superiority.� You need to be like Grant, grab ahold and dont let go, tear into him at all costs, cause if you bleed, so does he and very quickly he will lose all strategic ability for offensive action, ala Lee post June 64.�

There should be some penalty for the Allied player for keeping his carriers out of action for nearly 20 months.� There is NO WAY FDR or the JCoS would allow them sitting in Port when the European needs were so high. Carriers should be recalled to the Atlantic

< Message edited by paulkenny -- 9/24/2011 8:50:18 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2588

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 8:56:04 PM

paulkenny

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

If I were in your position I would be thirsting for contact, desparately looking for bases that I can reach him with my 4E bombers.

Of course I tend to lose alot of ships and planes and as a JFB am envious of the wealth of the Allies, but still..................

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2589

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/24/2011 10:53:29 PM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

I'd rather be a McClellan than a Hood. He's also preferable to a Lee who nearly lost the war at Sharpsburg & Gettysburg. At the moment you cant afford to be Grant and a Cold Harbor might be fatal.

Looking over the map, you have been pushed into the corners and your thoughts of a campagn from NW Australia make more sense. (Having seen CR & CT try this route shows that its entering an area with lots of bases to clear out but does threaten the Oil regions) But dont butt into his strongpoints, pick up some of the bases cheaply with APD or Paras if you can, get plenty of recce into the area in advance (might make himget used to their presence and dismiss their threat.

IMVHO, the Kuriles is a poor second choice, but not impossible.

Another thought for a smallish op with some value is to clean up the islands/atolls south of Tarawa. It would make your suplly LOC a bit safer and some are capable of large airbases. You could move out of the Ndeni area so shouldnt need too much rebasing of assets.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2590

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/25/2011 8:07:42 AM

jmalter

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline

hey i'm just 'nother Monday-morning advice-fountain here, but GJ's been doing quite well in teh Solomons w/ attrition-war, he immolated a major Aleutians spoiling-attack, & managed a fighting withdrawal in India rather well.

so i'd like to remind GJ, "the enemy is hurting, too!"

Rader is max extended, covering too much area w/ too few units. don't neglect to start aggressive probing on multiple fronts, while you assemble & train your strike-force.

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 2591

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/25/2011 11:59:45 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

August 1-4 1943

Here we are again Guys: Rader has mount another massive offensive operation....

On the 1st and 2nd of August our long range PB4Ys on seacrh duties from Ndeni spotted the KB moving SE from Ponape Island, 18 hexes north of Ndeni...at the same time lots of enemy shippings appeared at Rekata Bay and Shortland...mainly PBs and SCs....but the BBs moved to Rekata Bay too....
We feared a trap, so we moved out of TLT area our BBs. At the same time we ordered the newly arrived CA Australia TF (who, along with 2 Omaha Class CLs has just finished her repairs after the last naval battle of June at Tulagi) to bomb Auki...if Rader was looking for another counter advance he surely had to base his planes in his front line bases again...

On the 3rd of August our light Bombardment caught 100 planes and the ground and badly damaged many more...so we were right....when the day came we had lost contact with the KB while our worst nightmare was becoming true...another japanese massive offensive. a gran total of 700 fighters had been based at Russell-Thousands-Auki, with a backup of more 400 between Munda and Rekata, along with another 200+400 bombers at Shortland/Torobika.... enemy's BBs appeared at Thousands, along with a huge number of barges and small escorts...
The KB is flanking our position....could be everywhere now south/East of Tarawa....raiding or simply taking a different route to fall down at the back of our main bases at Ndeni at the very same time those 1000 fighters will attack....imagine a 1000 fighters sweep, followed by a full KB raid....

But those barges may mean he's trying to evacuate again what remains of the Tulagi Invasion force....17k men.... or this could be a trap in order to destroy once for all our naval surface assets...

Unfortunately we all know i cannot simply let him do it...at this stage i have to fight back...or die in the attempt...I tried to do my best in order to provide a serious air CAP for my BBs that are rearming and reorganizing at Ndeni and in 3 days we should be ready to move back to Tulagi...hopefully engaging his surface fleet in a mortal combat...
I've also emptied our 6 CVs in the theatre of every aircraft, sending SDBs, TBs and Hellcats to Ndeni with an attacking range of 8 hexes. If he wanna raid the BBs at Ndeni springing up at my shoulders at 8 hexes range he's gonna have a nice surprise.
My PTs have been massed at Tulagi and will try to defend the beaches and at the same time will sweep Thousands... a lucky hit would be welcome

You see? When i refrain from bombing and keeping shut Russell/Thousands/Auki those bases become really really dangerous... my naval search has been slaughtered last turn with 13 planes shot down over there....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Thousand Ships Bay at 114,136, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PC Kaki
AMc Wa 14, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Atsu Maru
AMc Shanan Maru #16
PB Keijo Maru
LB-516
LB-517, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
LB-518
LB-519
LB-520, Shell hits 1
LB-521
LB-524
LB-5004
LB-5005
LB-5006
LB-5007, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-5009
LB-5010
LB-5011
LB-5013
LB-552
LB-553
LB-554
LB-555
LB-556
LB-5051
LB-5052
LB-5053
LB-5054
LB-5055
SC CHa-15
SC CHa-17

Allied Ships
PT-149
PT-236
PT-301
PT-343

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Auki at 115,136

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 7 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 7 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 destroyed on ground
N1K1-J George: 1 damaged
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
DD Cummings
DD Dunlap
DD O'Brien
DD Conway
DMS Lamberton

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 33
Port hits 11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Auki at 115,136

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 18 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 5 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 10 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed on ground
N1K1-J George: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Frazier
DD Caldwell
DD Bancroft
DD Farenholt

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 23
Port hits 4
Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Auki at 115,136

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 64 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 11 destroyed on ground
N1K1-J George: 22 damaged
N1K1-J George: 5 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 31 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 12 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 8 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
CA Australia
CL Trenton
CL Richmond
DD Aylwin
DD MacDonough
DD Hull
DD Dewey
DD Saufley
DD Cony
DD Chevalier

Japanese ground losses:
85 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled

Airbase hits 18
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 46
Port hits 18
Port supply hits 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Thousand Ships Bay at 114,135

Japanese Ships
PB Akagane Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Halibut

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Thousand Ships Bay at 114,136

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CL Abukuma
DD Natsushio
DD Susukaze
DD Hikokaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Nowaki

Allied Ships
SS Grayback

Attachment (1)

(in reply to jmalter)

Post #: 2592

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/25/2011 12:09:57 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulkenny

I realize you have taken casualties, I have followed the AAR (read the 1st 70 pages or so a couple of weeks ago and following diligently since).� You, though, have been inflicting serious casualties on Rader.� You have decimated his air force.� it is high time you grabbed a hold of him and ground him into dirt.� You will take losses, sure, but you will inflict more or even the same on him.� And those are replacements he cannot easily (in terms of airplanes, transport and light naval) or cannot possibly (in terms of CA and heavier ships), replace.

You are being McClellan, worrying every detail, taking a slow and methodical course, waiting until everything is perfect.� And what happened?� he got his butt handed to him in the 7 Days battle, the ultimate transcendance of one general over another.� Complete and utter destruction of a commanding general's morale, despite having overwhelming numerical and material superiority.� You need to be like Grant, grab ahold and dont let go, tear into him at all costs, cause if you bleed, so does he and very quickly he will lose all strategic ability for offensive action, ala Lee post June 64.�

There should be some penalty for the Allied player for keeping his carriers out of action for nearly 20 months.� There is NO WAY FDR or the JCoS would allow them sitting in Port when the European needs were so high. Carriers should be recalled to the Atlantic

i do respect your POV mate, and i understand it, but i do not agree. Where should i have used our CVs in this game? Since we reached the parity in numbers of CVs, Rader never moves his CVs away from his mass of LBAs and when he does he raids, springing up from nowhere just to disappear the next turn...
What am i supposed to do? move my CVs right into his LBA+KB range? You have seen his numbers...it doesn't matter if the avg quality of his pilots has decreased...he has NUMBERS....he just needs to have 100 betties on naval attack escorted by 5/600 fighters backed up by the CVs....and i'm toasted! Look what he's doing in his other AAR...

If i lose my CVs now my offensive plans are destroyed. And i want to start advancing

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2593

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/25/2011 12:13:20 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hey i'm just 'nother Monday-morning advice-fountain here, but GJ's been doing quite well in teh Solomons w/ attrition-war, he immolated a major Aleutians spoiling-attack, & managed a fighting withdrawal in India rather well.

so i'd like to remind GJ, "the enemy is hurting, too!"

Rader is max extended, covering too much area w/ too few units. don't neglect to start aggressive probing on multiple fronts, while you assemble & train your strike-force.

quote:

covering too much area w/ too few units. don't neglect to start aggressive probing on multiple fronts, while you assemble & train your strike-force.

I know mate...i know...but Rader still has fangs and nails...and i'm nowehere close to be strong enough to freely attack without a proper preparation.... The enemy is hurting, yes...but i need to make him fight at my own terms...now is Rader who's still dictating the pace of operation....I need to hurt him more than that!!!!

(in reply to jmalter)

Post #: 2594

RE: REEK, rhymes with what? - 9/25/2011 12:40:03 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

99.5% of all newcomers playing the Allied side get their CVs sunk early in the game. Many of them quit. Those who soldier on vow never to do that again.

AE is not the actual war. Those who play as if it was are in for a rude surprise, unless they happen to be playing against a Japanese player who also views the game as the actual war.

GreyJoy has shown unusual and very laudable restraint in holding back his carriers. He hasn't needed them to this point and the payoff is going to be huge. He will rule the waves in late '43 and '44. He played it very smart.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2595

The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:10:11 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

August 7, 8 1943

Our nose is still working finely....

Rader has organized a massive operation...nearly a thousand fighters took off against my shippings in TLT....was a trap for my BBs....he moved to Thousands his BBs cause he wanted me to move to Tulagi mines....
The evidence is that his BBs retired from Thousands, leaving behind lots of barges that have been successfully attacked by night by my aggressive PTs...all the barges were empty....

Then when the day came his Nells and Frances started to attack our DDs at Lunga....he had a HUGE number of fighters as escort and my guys were outnumbered to say the least...still have to see the turn so i don't know our exact losses but they are very high however....

The KB showed up as forseen but right north of Tulagi...didn't launch and my subs were unlucky again....(i'm getting sick of these useless subs!!!)....

However...take a look at the reply....and then tell me again i should send my CVs against these hordes of LBA (consider that the KB didn't partecipate at these battles...)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Thousand Ships Bay at 114,136, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PC Kaki, Shell hits 1
AMc Atsu Maru
AMc Shanan Maru #16
PB Keijo Maru, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LB-516, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
LB-518, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-519, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
LB-520, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
LB-521, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
LB-524, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
LB-5004
LB-5005
LB-5006
LB-5009, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-5010
LB-5011
LB-5013, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-552
LB-553
LB-554
LB-555
LB-556
LB-5051, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-5052
LB-5053
LB-5054
LB-5055
SC CHa-15, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
SC CHa-17

Allied Ships
PT-242
PT-243
PT-348

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Thousand Ships Bay at 114,136, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PC Kaki
AMc Atsu Maru
AMc Shanan Maru #16
LB-5004, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
LB-5005, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
LB-5006
LB-5010
LB-5011
LB-552
LB-553
LB-554
LB-555
LB-556
LB-5051, and is sunk
LB-5052, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-5053
LB-5054
LB-5055, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC CHa-17

Allied Ships
PT-245
PT-253
PT-285
PT-298
PT-338
PT-352

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 114,138

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 42
A6M3a Zero x 36
A6M5 Zero x 44
G3M2 Nell x 13
N1K1-J George x 62
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 62
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 56
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 132
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 27
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 35

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 10
Spitfire Vc Trop x 12
P-40N1 Warhawk x 10
F4U-1 Corsair x 26
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 3 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40N1 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Frazier
DD Farenholt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 114,138

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 25
A6M3a Zero x 33
A6M5 Zero x 41
G3M2 Nell x 13
N1K1-J George x 57
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 58
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 72
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 115
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 24
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 28

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 9
Spitfire Vc Trop x 11
P-40N1 Warhawk x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 3 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 8 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Farenholt
DD Frazier

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Ontong Java at 119,133

Japanese Ships
CV Hiyo
BB Hiei
CA Haguro
DD Hatsuharu
DD Suzukaze
DD Tachekaze
DD Katsutade
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Yugure

Allied Ships
SS S-33, hits 1

SS S-33 launches 4 torpedoes at CV Hiyo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 114,138

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 104 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 12
A6M3a Zero x 13
A6M5 Zero x 43
N1K1-J George x 18
P1Y1 Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 9
Spitfire Vc Trop x 10
P-38H Lightning x 6
P-40K Warhawk x 12
P-40N1 Warhawk x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 27
F6F-3 Hellcat x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 21 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 4 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 9 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell
DD Farenholt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 114,138

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 24
A6M3a Zero x 24
A6M5 Zero x 2
G3M2 Nell x 5
N1K1-J George x 36
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 53
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 69
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 140
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 30
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 28

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 7
Spitfire Vc Trop x 10
P-38H Lightning x 10
P-40K Warhawk x 20
P-40N1 Warhawk x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 29
F6F-3 Hellcat x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 5 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40N1 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 2596

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:21:03 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Post #: 2597

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:21:32 PM

GreyJoy

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Post #: 2598

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:22:21 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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And here are the losses...the Corsairs again are those who took the worst beatings....

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Post #: 2599

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:22:51 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 9/25/2011 3:48:07 PM >

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Post #: 2600

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 3:30:53 PM

kfsgo

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/16/2010
Status: offline

Only 4.7:1? Your pilots are getting sloppy!

More seriously, though, I wonder why he's forcing so many fighters to be tied to such a small number of bombers? Surely they'd at least get more fighters on sweeps, and it's not like Nells are going to make it back either way. Also - 25 Jakes in a day? Mee-yow...

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2601

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 4:05:30 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

Only 4.7:1? Your pilots are getting sloppy!

More seriously, though, I wonder why he's forcing so many fighters to be tied to such a small number of bombers? Surely they'd at least get more fighters on sweeps, and it's not like Nells are going to make it back either way. Also - 25 Jakes in a day? Mee-yow...

If i may guess....

His problem now is that he wanted to get my BBs. He presumed my BBs would have been moved to Tulagi or Lunga, but he couldn't be sure. He could not sweep 4 bases at the same time (Tassa,Lunga,Tulagi and karaikira) because doing so he risked to arrive piece and mail and lose punch. My BBs could be at sea LRCAPPED by my fighters...with sweeps he could have wasted precious missions on empty skies, and when his Nells had taken off, their escort would not had been efficient enough.
That's why i think he preferred to "sacrifice" his fighters in order to give his torpedo bombers a change to arrive safely on the targets...

Luckly i forsaw this move and send my DDs to Lunga to act as a CAP trap....and it worked!

(in reply to kfsgo)

Post #: 2602

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 6:05:56 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Aug 9, 10 1943

The KBs moves away NE, while his BBs are back at Thousands, along with a huge number of barges, PBs and other minor ships....
Yet i'm not getting what is he up to a part from the "trap"....we sunk another xAK near Auki with our subs...and the transport was empty...

Is he resupplying!?

However, we're sending a "light" TF to investigate.
8 Fletchers will escort CA Australia and CL Leander in a night recon mission to Auki...

His air army remains in the old positions, while we gave a bit of rest to some squadrons moving them from Lunga to Ndeni and changing them with other fresher groups.

An interesting battle took place near Tahiti, where an allied AMC went chasing a jap AMC....we left the enemy armoured transport in flames

Day Time Surface Combat, near Niue at 145,176, Range 15,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
AMC Kinryu Maru, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
AMC Chitral, Shell hits 1

PTs will be sent to Thousands and Auki to sweep and give some problems to Rader....hopefully

We also spent a good number of PPs in order to buy 3 NZ BDEs....these guys will be moved to Noumea in order to replace the 32nd U.S. Division that will be sent to Ndeni...

His bombers stayed home today...licking wounds

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2603

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 6:09:14 PM

paulkenny

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

Point being this is no longer the early war, this is solidly into the war, 20 months.

If you spend too much time worrying about Rader's abilities you will never be able to overcome him (see McClellan as a perfect example). You need to make him start worrying about you. That will throw off and very quickly destroy his ability for offessive actions.

He is trying to flank you? FLank him, the CVs give you operational mobility. The planes on bases are useful but lose a critical skill, mobility.

Stop worrying about his LBA, they are no longer the skilled pilots of early 42 they are 50-60 level skilled pilots, which will be decimated by your CAP.

You are playing his game, it is time to start making him play your game.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2604

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 6:17:02 PM

paulkenny

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline

BTW the current turn exemplifies what I am saying, nearly 5 to 1 in losses you are inflicting, the Nicks the Tojos are shortlegged, the ocscars are just waiting to be flamed, come in from the southeast near Suva. Your left flank is covered by the Solomons so he can only work to the NE of the Solomons.

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Post #: 2605

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 7:20:17 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

If you spend too much time worrying about Rader's abilities you will never be able to overcome him (see McClellan as a perfect example). You need to make him start worrying about you. That will throw off and very quickly destroy his ability for offessive actions.

Not an expert on the civil war and have only read a bit about it. McClellan was an interesting character. Yes, it did take a long time building up the fighting ability of the Union army but they were in rough shape and fairly demoralized. When he finally took the field during the Peninsula campaign he, and his army performed well, but not quite as well as his opponent, some upstart from Virginia named Lee. His procrastination finally fell afoul of a patient Lincoln who famously said "If he can't fight himself, he excels in making others ready to fight" I think Lincoln understood by this time that the war would be a war of total annihilation and that he would just have to grind the South down to dust. Grant and Sherman understood this and were the right general's to do it. The South could never stand up to the Norths industrial might WITP is a war of total annihilation. You will just have to grind Raeder down. Japan can not stand up to the unending goodies in your reinforcement queue.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2606

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 7:29:26 PM

paulkenny

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
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McClellan even more than his ability to prepare his troops is apropos in this situation. despite overwhelming material superiority he consistently overestimated the Confederates forces against him, for months on end. by doing so he surrendered the initative, tactically and operationally at first strategically after the 7 days. his fears of being defeated lead directly to him being defeated. when he finally met Lee, Lee completely defeated him on a moral and morale basis. that is what I fear will happed to GJ. By continually overestimating his opponent he will not be able to face him operationally. He will continually fear things that Rader cant do while missing operational opportunities. His fear of losing his carriers is a perfect example. He has parity at least on carrier potential, yet fears losing a carrier or two. If he can trade 1 or 2 carriers for each jap carrier that would be a HUGE game changer.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2607

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 7:47:10 PM

princep01

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

JohnDill....a comment like that is sure to arouse a lengthy divergence into Off-subjectland". Looks like it has begun.

On subject, I have a comment for you Reek. I think you worry too much about tactical traps and mayhaps over analyze things a bit. The LYB fleet, barge and fighter build up in the Solomons is for a pretty obvious purpose, don't you think? I'd wager a limited one at that. There are 17-18K beleaguered trespassers on Bolton land (Tulagi). I have suggested you remove the temption for these types of LYB actions by squashing the bejeebers out of these cockroaches for sometime now. However, my Reek, I had forgotten....you LIKE cockroaches. They are a protein source and an unending source of entertainment while you wile-away the hours in the dungeon of Dreadfort. That is why you don't want to stamp these blighters to pulp and collect the points. Points don't mean anything when there is protein to be had. How silly of me. I am almost apologetic....but not quite, because, you see, my Reek, the LYBs are going to sail in and whisk the buggers away from you before you can eat them. No points and no protein, you see. Oh well. that is why I am warm and prosperous out here while you freeze in there. Say good bye to you erstwhile playmates as the LYBs will soon have them away to vex you elsewhere.

I'm returnin soon. We WILL visit.

Princep Bolton

(in reply to paulkenny)

Post #: 2608

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 8:22:09 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

He has parity at least on carrier potential, yet fears losing a carrier or two. If he can trade 1 or 2 carriers for each jap carrier that would be a HUGE game changer.

I'm on the fence here. In a standup fight he should take on the KB. Even a 1 for 2 trade is not so bad. However, I don't think all this LAB allows for a standup fight. Too many variables. Readers still able to put up 1,00o aircraft. Even low quality ones will overwhelm his CAP and might let just enough bombers to get a few hits. I've disagreed with Greyjoys conservative use of BB's early in the campaign but I can understand being cautious with his CV's.
That being said cautious is one thing, leaving them in port is another thing entirely. Put them in the field and maybe set a trap. Hang them out of range and maybe dart in when he drops down for an attack. There have been a number of times when the KB has launched an attack and lots tons of aircraft. That would have been the time to take a chance. I get what Greyjoy is doing, it's boring, but, for now, effective. He may be doing a McClellan for now, but at least he is not doing a Hamlet

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 9/25/2011 8:23:12 PM >

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Post #: 2609

RE: The Stone and the Waves - 9/25/2011 9:43:34 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

GreyJoy is actually doing what he needs to do right now, thanks partly to his own play and very much to rader's mistakes (I'm of the opinion that he is making big mistakes even though he's a pretty good player).

I've said this before, but I think it holds true.� In AE, the game breaks down this way:� 1941 is the year of surprise; 1942 is the year of Japanese expansion; 1943 is the year of attrition; 1944 is the year of Allied expansion; and 1945 is the year of conquest.� That timetable might need a bit of adjusting in Scenario Two, or to account for widely divergent skill levels among the two players, but you get the idea.

It's 1943 and rader is making this a very successful "year of attrition" for GreyJoy.� To me, it appears that rader has totally destroyed his own airforce, throwing it time after time against a better Allied airforce under adverse conditions.� Shame on rader, but GreyJoy did the right thing by choosing a battleground where rader would come to him.� As long as rader is willing to fight hard on unfavorable terms, GreyJoy is doing the right thing by accepting battle there.� Only if rader weren't engaging in a battle of attrition might GreyJoy need to sally forth to draw rader into battle.� (In 1943, it doesn't really matter where the battle of attrition takes place as long as it's taking place somewhere.)

GreyJoy hasn't really begun to attrition rader's capital ships yet.� Eventually he'll have to do so, but if he continues to win the air war, such attrition will occur naturally.� Later in '43 or early in '44, GreyJoy will move forward and attack places that rader will have to defend.� Since rader's airforce will be in shambles (I think), he'll have to commit his carriers and combat ships.� That will result in major attrition.

So, keep up the attriting, GreyJoy!� Good work.

P.S.� I probably didn't convey well that a great deal of credit should be accorded GreyJoy in setting up a scenario in which the attrition would occur on terms very favorable to him.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/25/2011 9:44:36 PM >

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2610