Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

HONEST EVAL OF AI

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> HONEST EVAL OF AI Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/30/2011 11:29:25 PM   
MemoryLeak


Posts: 491
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Woodland, CA USA
Status: offline 		I searched on AI but I can never get the search function to work. Anyway..
I am looking for an honest evaluation of the AI. I never play PBEM so this is important, at least to me it is.
Does it do dumb things?
Is it aggresive?
Does it ignore parts of the battle map?

Things like that.

_____________________________

If you want to make GOD laugh, tell him your future plans

USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973
Post #: 1
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/30/2011 11:46:59 PM   
Frido1207

 

Posts: 456
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Lower Saxony, Germany
Status: offline 		ATG is focused on flexibility & modability (is that a word??)

Decisive Campaigns is focused on historical accuracy & a strong AI.

But read what Vic says in his own words:
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/ ("Game development laws")

_____________________________


(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 2
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 12:16:02 AM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I searched on AI but I can never get the search function to work. Anyway..
I am looking for an honest evaluation of the AI. I never play PBEM so this is important, at least to me it is.
Does it do dumb things?


Yes but don't they all?

quote:


Is it aggresive?


Yes. Sometimes too agressive, but it definately keeps you on your toes.

quote:


Does it ignore parts of the battle map?


Sometimes, but not usually.

quote:


Things like that.


It's not the best AI I've come across but it's better than most.

There are way to give it a production advantage, so you fight against more but not necessarily better. The best challenge I get is fighting against 3 or 4 AI's that don't have any production advantage. Can be quite a challenge and you don't feel cheated.

Hope that helps.


_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 3
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 2:15:27 AM   
kendollem

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/4/2008
Status: offline 		Honestly the AI is pretty weak i think mostly for 1 reason.

Your first couple games theres a distinct possibiliy you'll lose the Ai is super aggressive and goes straight for Ac's Tanks and such and without expereince on how to handle your Political Points could find yourself quite boned.. But after you figure that out it doesnt really provide much  challenge outside of upping its production.. And even then its kind of meh

Cause its incapable of using multiple divisions to attack a spot so its always 1 divisions vs your 1 division as far as i've seen. So just set back and let the hordes batter themselfs againist your entrenched units with defence weps and you'll kill them at an insane ratio..  Ai doesnt seem to use arty to well either which just makes the problem worse.


If this gets Fixed in Gold then the ai would be top notch.


Anyone have any idea if this does?

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 4
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 5:18:43 AM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		to be honest i've never come across an ai that is even close to what a human could do in any wargame. hps, ssg, DC WtP, advanced tactics: the ai is only a challenge in suited scenarios and during the learning process.

(in reply to kendollem)
Post #: 5
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 8:30:11 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Don't know about the Gold version, but the AI in AT was... acceptable. Need to immediately add that the AI can pose a serious threat, let alone AI+ (never played AI++, well maybe half a game or so). It's quite agressive, and if you're not careful you *will* have a hard time. I compare it to say WitE, where even on normal you really have to pay attention to every unit, and make every move count. In WitE you will lose against the AI if you're not careful, same for ATG me thinks.
Up untill now it's no match for a human opponent, then again it has served me well for a few years.
The AI did use Art and AT guns in AT... but not much, maybe ATG has improved on this.

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 6
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 1:44:37 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Two suggestions re the AI in random games:

1) Give it the first turn
2) Let the AI declare war first. Sometimes it will do so immediately and other times it will wait 2 or more turns.

These two things will help you have a more challenging experience.


_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 7
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 3:28:50 PM   
Max 86


Posts: 699
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		My biggest problem with the original AT AI is that it can not build a combined arms division with the usual components. It builds too many of these and too few of those.  I have not seen an AI division yet with tanks, infantry, arty, recon, all together in one unit.  That is why the AI doesn't hold up in combat.  Its easy to whip a armored car DIVISION or a HQ Staff DIVISION!

_____________________________

No problem Chief!

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 8
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 4:46:54 PM   
MemoryLeak


Posts: 491
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Woodland, CA USA
Status: offline 		Well, that gives me a good overview of the AI and how to possibly make it more challenging.
i will also check out Decisive Campaigns.
I have many matrixgames software. Usually a good experience. WWII: Time of Wrath didn't work out so good for me.
I like SC WAW and SC WWI. Tough AI.


_____________________________

If you want to make GOD laugh, tell him your future plans

USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973

(in reply to Max 86)
Post #: 9
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 7:25:39 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Uh yeah but the SC series is a completely different ballgame. One unit there is probably onehundred in AT (or WitE for that matter). Moreover, no stacking in SC, that's an almost no-no for me.
Anyways, sure the AI good use some improvements, no one will deny that, and it will be some time before we have an AI that *will* beat a good player.... but in the meantime ATG is a fungame guaranteed for countless hours of pixeltroopsfun.

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 10
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 8:16:01 PM   
Max 86


Posts: 699
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

.... but in the meantime ATG is a fungame guaranteed for countless hours of pixeltroopsfun.


Against other people, mostly human, I agree. Against the AI, not so much. I DO hope that the AI unit composition situation was addressed.

_____________________________

No problem Chief!

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 11
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 3/31/2011 9:42:56 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I searched on AI but I can never get the search function to work. Anyway..
I am looking for an honest evaluation of the AI. I never play PBEM so this is important, at least to me it is.
Does it do dumb things?
Is it aggresive?
Does it ignore parts of the battle map?

Things like that.



I've had loads of fun with it, (the AT AI), but it does tend to boil down to the same old grind on a different map. It takes a while to get to this stage, a variable 'while' depending on the individual. In a few cases, people have not been able to beat the AI when it's on ++ setting.

As a game experience, I found the mods to make an improved random game over the standard random games. I notice some of the same type of chnages are being incorporated into ATG.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 12
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/1/2011 12:12:40 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Another way to get a good challenge: play a random game with three AI. I started such a game yesterday and initially I thought I might actually be able to manage it. In successive turns however each of the AI declared war on me. While I initially made some progress, the AI now has me retreating. I've lost at least one of my initial cites and have had retaken from me 2 or 3 I had captured from the AI. I've never lost a game to the AI and this may be the first. Say it ain't so! I'm not ready to throw in the towel but I'm approaching the tipping point I believe. I'm feeling like the Germans must have felt in the late war years: too many fronts and not enough resources to hold the line everywhere. It is not a good feeling!

Edit: Well, a few turns later I surrendered. One of the AI finally declared war on another AI but it was too late for me. My situation had deteriorated rapidly and all hope was loss. : (

< Message edited by Webizen -- 4/1/2011 2:47:36 PM >

_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 13
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/5/2011 4:22:19 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Having been defeated in my first ATG random game with three AI, I started another. In this one I didn't follow my usual practice of waiting for the AI to declare war first (still a good idea if playing against only one AI) and immediately declared war on AI Player A. A couple of turns later AI Player B declared war on AI Player C. Good! They won't all three be warring against me like in the first game. The war with AI Player A went on for a couple of years (roughly 24 turns) before I captured it last city. I wasn't paying much attention to what the other two AI players were doing (couldn't see much anyway) other than I kept a few units on my border with each of them. When I did finally make an effort to discern who was winning that battle, I discerned that AI Player C was getting the best of AI Player B. I decided I better get after AI Player B as well before AI Player C captured all their cities and resource hexes. I guess may action didn't sit well with AI Player C as a couple of turns later he declared war on me. My border with him wasn't heavily defended in most areas and the blitzkrieg he launched against me had me reeling in retreat. Several turns later I think I've finally blunted his offensive on the main direction of his attack. In a couple of other areas I'm actually gaining ground against his forces. AI Player B I think still has at least one city so he isn't totally out it of yet. The war against AI Player C is going be a long one I believe but I'm having a lot of fun with it.

One thing I've learned or relearned is that a large motorized army (or Navy/Air Force) burns through its fuel reserves in a hurry. Future ATG players, plan accordingly.

Another thing I've learned, if you are primarily a gamer who only plays against the AI, play against more than one. Try playing against 2 or 3 AI. You'll find it more of a challenge, thus enhancing your gaming experience with ATG.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 4/5/2011 4:27:59 PM >

_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 14
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/5/2011 4:31:39 PM   
Max 86


Posts: 699
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		Is the AI building combined arms divisions?

_____________________________

No problem Chief!

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 15
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/5/2011 7:54:28 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		"...When I did finally make an effort to discern who was winning that battle, I discerned that AI Player C was getting the best of AI Player B. I decided I better get after AI Player B as well before AI Player C captured all their cities and resource hexes..."

That's funny, because that's exactly the opposite of what I do. Reasoning behind it is that Player C (the winning side) may get just too powerful. I always go for the most powerful AI, while at the same time playing defensively against the other AI's. And you're right about multiple AI's, more souls more fun hehe. 

(in reply to Max 86)
Post #: 16
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/5/2011 8:03:16 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Well, I had just finished off AI Player A and had just discovered that AI Player B was on the verge of total defeat. Incidentally, a couple of turns before as I was redeploying west front units to my eastern border, the increased recon revealed a massive AI Player C army near my border in one location. I was not prepared to go war with him, which is why when he declared war on me, he quickly overran part of my nation capturing one of my at start cities and a resource hex or two.

Edit: I don't intend to turn this thread into an AAR but let me just say I'm still, 31 turns into this particular game, still getting pressured by the AI. In the screenshot I'm the darker colored units. I'm trying to hold the line in places and in others pushing back and gaining ground. This is just the eastern front. There is also a battle raging on the western front as well where my situation is a little more precarious.

In answer to an earlier question about combined arms: yes the AI is employing combined arms "divisions" and in some places with artillery and air support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

"...When I did finally make an effort to discern who was winning that battle, I discerned that AI Player C was getting the best of AI Player B. I decided I better get after AI Player B as well before AI Player C captured all their cities and resource hexes..."

That's funny, because that's exactly the opposite of what I do. Reasoning behind it is that Player C (the winning side) may get just too powerful. I always go for the most powerful AI, while at the same time playing defensively against the other AI's. And you're right about multiple AI's, more souls more fun hehe. 






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Webizen -- 4/6/2011 2:36:34 AM >

_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 17
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/6/2011 3:06:26 AM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Yes they do as you can see in the screen shot (depicting three different AI units). In some cases they are accompanied by artillery units and sometimes get air support as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

Is the AI building combined arms divisions?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Webizen -- 4/6/2011 3:08:25 AM >

_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Max 86)
Post #: 18
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/6/2011 4:08:01 PM   
Max 86


Posts: 699
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for showing that. It is a big relief! I am real excited by this release. It is looking really good.

_____________________________

No problem Chief!

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 19
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/6/2011 7:43:52 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		The AI did this in AT, it wasn't always the case but often I found units conifgured this way. Was there some effort to change the behavior in ATG ?

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Max 86)
Post #: 20
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/6/2011 8:32:56 PM   
Lihnit23

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

The AI did this in AT, it wasn't always the case but often I found units conifgured this way. Was there some effort to change the behavior in ATG ?


Doesn't appear to be any change.

Look at the first unit above. To be efficient, it needs 13 more trucks. Right now the unit only moves 1 space per turn.

AT did the same kind of thing, not putting enough mobilizers with units for effective speed.


(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 21
RE: HONEST EVAL OF AI - 4/6/2011 9:28:40 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		In actual practice I believe ATG players will find that horses have become a more valuable transport resource simply because you can't build to many trucks and other motorized stuff without running the risk of burning through your fuel reserves (oil) in a hurry.

Good point however, a human player would not likely put 11 assault guns and 3 AT guns in the same formation with armored units (though it is possible I killed some of that formations trucks in my attacks or maybe he lost some in his attack on me, don't remember).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lihnit23
To be efficient, it needs 13 more trucks. Right now the unit only moves 1 space per turn.



< Message edited by Webizen -- 4/6/2011 9:31:21 PM >

_____________________________

Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Lihnit23)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> HONEST EVAL OF AI Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.781