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RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/22/2011 9:59:14 PM   
Uxbridge


Posts: 1505
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline 		I have said this before, but there's no harm in saying it again. I would like to have a slightly improved intelligence level. It would be very nice if one could sometimes get a more detailed amount of information from the opposing forces, such as the parent unit, what army the unit belongs to, who is the commanding leader, is this unit in static mode, and so on. This should be more an exception than a rule, of course. Maybe every 20th unit in the front line, or every 3rd or 4th unit that is successfully spotted from air recon (that goes to actually simulate other intelligence assetts on the ground). In most games where there's a FoW system, I take great joy out of trying to outguess my opponent's upcoming moves. Gaining a bit of knowledege from now and then, trying to see the larger picture, is great fun. Having the system giving false, randomly generated, information occasionly, would make it even better.

In reality, the opposing sides often hade a rather good picture of what armies and commanders they were up against. Trying to follow those forces' or persons' movements were part of their intelligence work.

< Message edited by Uxbridge -- 4/22/2011 10:04:54 PM >

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Post #: 61
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 12:43:53 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

I'd find it useful if the TOE of the unit was displayed in the right side unit pop up screen. It would save on the amount of clicking when checking up on units in refit mode. For HQ units, I'd also like to see the leader ratings displayed in the right side unit pop up screen.

I'm also one of the folks who'd like the ability to choose how stacks are arranged.

Thanks for a highly addictive game and great customer support!

Cheers!


We went round and round on these issues. Trying to squeeze in as much data as possible where we could has always been a tough challenge. The leader stats was one that was improved upon prior to release. Once you open an Hq screen, you see the commander's name just under the unit name. All you need to do is move the cursor over the name and a pop-up appears with the leader stats. previously, you had to open the leader page itself to see these.

There's not really anymore room on that right panel to add more data. Remember we muct accommodate various screen sizes and there are physical limitations to what can get displayed.

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Post #: 62
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 12:45:46 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pawlock

I would like to see some form of a combat replay for opponents pbem turns. As it stands now your just presented with a load of clickable icons relating to battles ,recon etc . I find it very hard to see what order and what units participated and where from without a clickfest to achieve.


Hopefully this will happen at some time in the future. This has been on the tester suggestion list for quite a while.

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Post #: 63
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 12:51:29 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

I have said this before, but there's no harm in saying it again. I would like to have a slightly improved intelligence level. It would be very nice if one could sometimes get a more detailed amount of information from the opposing forces, such as the parent unit, what army the unit belongs to, who is the commanding leader, is this unit in static mode, and so on. This should be more an exception than a rule, of course. Maybe every 20th unit in the front line, or every 3rd or 4th unit that is successfully spotted from air recon (that goes to actually simulate other intelligence assetts on the ground). In most games where there's a FoW system, I take great joy out of trying to outguess my opponent's upcoming moves. Gaining a bit of knowledege from now and then, trying to see the larger picture, is great fun. Having the system giving false, randomly generated, information occasionly, would make it even better.

In reality, the opposing sides often hade a rather good picture of what armies and commanders they were up against. Trying to follow those forces' or persons' movements were part of their intelligence work.


Interesting idea. Right now there are 10 levels of detection that provide different bits of info to include such things as attached support units, unit names, and a variety of other info. The only time I think you will know a commander of an enemy force though is if you kill him. I don't see why that kind of info can't be provided though, you could find that out thru pow's or radio evesdropping. I'll write this one down to look at when we get a chance. Can't promise anything or if it will happen though.

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Post #: 64
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 2:25:03 AM   
AKCLIMBER

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 11/22/2010
From: Juneau, Alaska
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply.

Wanted to add that, like some others, I'd like to see an easy way to organize save files.

Cheers!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21


quote:

ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

I'd find it useful if the TOE of the unit was displayed in the right side unit pop up screen. It would save on the amount of clicking when checking up on units in refit mode. For HQ units, I'd also like to see the leader ratings displayed in the right side unit pop up screen.

I'm also one of the folks who'd like the ability to choose how stacks are arranged.

Thanks for a highly addictive game and great customer support!

Cheers!


We went round and round on these issues. Trying to squeeze in as much data as possible where we could has always been a tough challenge. The leader stats was one that was improved upon prior to release. Once you open an Hq screen, you see the commander's name just under the unit name. All you need to do is move the cursor over the name and a pop-up appears with the leader stats. previously, you had to open the leader page itself to see these.

There's not really anymore room on that right panel to add more data. Remember we muct accommodate various screen sizes and there are physical limitations to what can get displayed.


(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 65
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 3:18:25 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		I've been pondering the point that Uxbridge brought up, about knowing opposing commanders, and also something else: the 'O' key, which shows very exacting, and apparently accurate(?), numbers of men and equipement for the enemy.  How easy can it be to know, with very high accuracy, how many men and pieces of equipment the enemy has?  Maybe there should be some modestly high level of possible inaccuracy that should be put into these estimates of enemy strength.

(in reply to AKCLIMBER)
Post #: 66
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 4:37:52 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

I've been pondering the point that Uxbridge brought up, about knowing opposing commanders, and also something else: the 'O' key, which shows very exacting, and apparently accurate(?), numbers of men and equipement for the enemy.  How easy can it be to know, with very high accuracy, how many men and pieces of equipment the enemy has?  Maybe there should be some modestly high level of possible inaccuracy that should be put into these estimates of enemy strength.


I know it does seem odd, but while it does provide you with overall numbers, you really don't know the status of individual units. So this gives the player an idea of how he might be doing when compared to previous games or history itself. Either that or just figure you have a really good spy on the other side's high command.

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Post #: 67
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 6:09:41 AM   
Uxbridge


Posts: 1505
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21


quote:

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

... trying to follow those forces' or persons' movements were part of their intelligence work.


Interesting idea. Right now there are 10 levels of detection that provide different bits of info to include such things as attached support units, unit names, and a variety of other info. The only time I think you will know a commander of an enemy force though is if you kill him. I don't see why that kind of info can't be provided though, you could find that out thru pow's or radio evesdropping. I'll write this one down to look at when we get a chance. Can't promise anything or if it will happen though.


You mean I can get info on enemy armies/fronts?? How? The only time I noticed that is when they're stacked in the frontline and that will rarely happen with higher commands.

If one would be allowed to develop the thought slightly, there's three occasions when I think this kind of information should be obtained:

The first is through air recon. Whenever an HQ (not only air HQ's as now) is located, the acting player gets information what HQ this is and (sometimes) what units sort immediately under it, and (even more rarely) what leader is in charge of it. The last, of course, is abstracted - the information was revealed by some other way. The good thing about connecting the activity to air recon is that the player can actively try to gain information. An interesting side-effect is that the opposing player can see that his HQ is under surveillance, and may take steps to avoid it. Can lead to a nice little intelligence war.

The second occasion information should be revealed is when the opposing player do something involving administrative points. This should be totally random and represent mainly radio intercepts. From now and then, use of ADM-points generate a report to be presented to the enemy, conveniently placed in the Event Log under the new heading: "Intelligence". The more ADM the opponent used, the higher the likelyhood that the information was revealed. It could be anything like: "Meyer is new commander of XX Corps", "IV Corps was moved from 18th to 16th Army" or "211 division placed in static mode".

The third occasion regards movement of higher echelons. I think armies and above for Germans, and the opposite for the Russians, would be the proper level. Whenever any such HQ moves, there's a chance that it will be spotted and logged in the new Intelligence report. The longer the move in hexes, the higher the chance of it being watched. The information should state either: that the HQ have moved, but nothing about where, that the HQ have left a certain location, or, that the HQ has arrived at a certain location. Sometimes when the info is presented, there should be a random fake, i.e. false information is provided.

Is this all wishful thinking?

< Message edited by Uxbridge -- 4/23/2011 6:11:19 AM >

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Post #: 68
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 8:01:58 AM   
saintsup

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: La Celle Saint-Clouud
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael


I was not proposing adding production system for Germany, only enchancing the reinforcement/withdrawal system to be more dynamic, less scripted, and connected to AP.


+1

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Post #: 69
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 8:37:08 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: saintsup
The first is through air recon. Whenever an HQ (not only air HQ's as now) is located, the acting player gets information what HQ this is and (sometimes) what units sort immediately under it, and (even more rarely) what leader is in charge of it. The last, of course, is abstracted - the information was revealed by some other way. The good thing about connecting the activity to air recon is that the player can actively try to gain information. An interesting side-effect is that the opposing player can see that his HQ is under surveillance, and may take steps to avoid it. Can lead to a nice little intelligence war.


Uh, you can already do all of this via air recon, except for getting info re the enemy commander. Another way, but I think a gamey bug, is to bomb a unit and turn on Lvl 3 reporting...it will tell you what unit is being bombed...

(in reply to saintsup)
Post #: 70
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 10:34:20 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		I'm not naturally organised so more than anything alse would like colour shading to enable me to distinguish german corps within armies, and russian armies within fronts. Will save me a lot of time. Rather, it will make my troops more effective as I can't be bothered to sort them out most of the time as it's too fiddly at the moment and I have limited playtime.

I get round problem of similar coloured fronts by keeping them far apart on the map.

A lesser point is that I would prefer not to have automatic stack selection when I have moved a single unit in. An irritant particulaly with railheads and HQs.

Having been a supporter of variable German production before the game started, I'm now of the opinion it should wait until WiTW.



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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 71
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 12:33:55 PM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline 		Event Log - give map refs for isolated and withdrawing units; give some advance notice of exports to Axis allies; not sure of the point in reporting on items for which you have no control over eg HI locations do not have enough resources; is there any point in informing me about pilot training? can understand why AXIS production is 'historical' but do not understand why the way units are equipped has to be historical.

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Post #: 72
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 12:50:52 PM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline 		Unit display - have more colours to be able to see without clicking which units belong to a corps etc; have a colour or soft factor to denote when a unit is a set % under TOE; group EXP and FAT nexrt to each other; not sure of the value of displaying troops, art, tanks on the counter - could use that space for something else...

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Post #: 73
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 3:14:35 PM   
Uxbridge


Posts: 1505
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: saintsup
The first is through air recon. Whenever an HQ (not only air HQ's as now) is located, the acting player gets information what HQ this is and (sometimes) what units sort immediately under it, and (even more rarely) what leader is in charge of it. The last, of course, is abstracted - the information was revealed by some other way. The good thing about connecting the activity to air recon is that the player can actively try to gain information. An interesting side-effect is that the opposing player can see that his HQ is under surveillance, and may take steps to avoid it. Can lead to a nice little intelligence war.


Uh, you can already do all of this via air recon, except for getting info re the enemy commander. Another way, but I think a gamey bug, is to bomb a unit and turn on Lvl 3 reporting...it will tell you what unit is being bombed...


Yes, you're right. I have never seen that before. But after repeated AI searches some HQ's appear with name and all. Then I would like this result a little more often.

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Post #: 74
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 5:21:05 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		What I'd like to see in further development of this series:

- Production and distribution of reinforcement/supply under player's control.

- Total overhaul of the air model. This one is subpar to previous 2by3 titles. I want control on airfield level, as in BTR and WITP.

- If there has to be a stacking limit on hexes, make it 4 counters at least. Divisions consists on 4 regiments, regiments on 4 battalions, battalions on 4 companies and so on. 4 is the magic number here. Splitting a unit into three pieces doesn't feel right.

To sum it up: less abstraction and more details.


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Post #: 75
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 9:46:59 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

What I'd like to see in further development of this series:

- Production and distribution of reinforcement/supply under player's control.

- Total overhaul of the air model. This one is subpar to previous 2by3 titles. I want control on airfield level, as in BTR and WITP.

- If there has to be a stacking limit on hexes, make it 4 counters at least. Divisions consists on 4 regiments, regiments on 4 battalions, battalions on 4 companies and so on. 4 is the magic number here. Splitting a unit into three pieces doesn't feel right.

To sum it up: less abstraction and more details.



My perception is that 3 was just as much of a magic number as 4 was, maybe even more. Seems to me that German infantry divisions used 3 more than 4.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 76
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 10:49:42 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw



My perception is that 3 was just as much of a magic number as 4 was, maybe even more. Seems to me that German infantry divisions used 3 more than 4.


3 is much more magic than 4 because it is a prime number

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 77
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/23/2011 10:56:12 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		I would also like the Rude lcounter we had in DNO. It would be very useful and more appropriate in a game that models individual a/c cf DNO

For those of you who don't remember DNO, the Rudel counter had a 1 in 3 chance of destroying a soviet tank brigade every 2 weeks.

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 78
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 1:53:37 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline 		Have a count of the number of attached support units displayed on the counter when you highlight a unit; have the national air reserve displayed in the Order of battle Screen

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Post #: 79
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:19:46 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Event Log - give map refs for isolated and withdrawing units; give some advance notice of exports to Axis allies; not sure of the point in reporting on items for which you have no control over eg HI locations do not have enough resources; is there any point in informing me about pilot training? can understand why AXIS production is 'historical' but do not understand why the way units are equipped has to be historical.


I think it would be nice to be able to select the withdrawing unit off the log and it takes you to the map location. I can ask about something like that.

The pilot info training is to let you know that some of your aircraft and aircrews are being lost this way.

The historical requirements was a design decision and won't change for WitE.

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Post #: 80
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:25:29 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Unit display - have more colours to be able to see without clicking which units belong to a corps etc; have a colour or soft factor to denote when a unit is a set % under TOE; group EXP and FAT nexrt to each other; not sure of the value of displaying troops, art, tanks on the counter - could use that space for something else...



We are pretty much at the limit of distinguishable colors, that's why the limit was set at army (German) and Front (Soviet).

We are at the limit on soft factors too. There were others I would have liked, but we have what we have.

The data that is on the counters is already at the limit too. We tried getting other data added, but there is only so much room. The use of military icons to represent the type of unit is pretty standard and I think most people prefer that.

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Post #: 81
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:30:07 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

What I'd like to see in further development of this series:

- Production and distribution of reinforcement/supply under player's control.

- Total overhaul of the air model. This one is subpar to previous 2by3 titles. I want control on airfield level, as in BTR and WITP.

- If there has to be a stacking limit on hexes, make it 4 counters at least. Divisions consists on 4 regiments, regiments on 4 battalions, battalions on 4 companies and so on. 4 is the magic number here. Splitting a unit into three pieces doesn't feel right.

To sum it up: less abstraction and more details.



The production system is what it is for WitE. Maybe in the future if and when a War in Europe is created we will have full production capabilities.

The air model was not intended to be like WitP. It is currently being improved upon. A total overhaul is unlikely.

We beat that stacking limit horse into the ground as testers many times, resurrected it and beat it again. But 3 is the limit. At least the Soviets can create corps formations and cities can attach some types of support units as can fortified zones/regions. This used to not be the case.

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Post #: 82
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:34:05 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

I would also like the Rude lcounter we had in DNO. It would be very useful and more appropriate in a game that models individual a/c cf DNO

For those of you who don't remember DNO, the Rudel counter had a 1 in 3 chance of destroying a soviet tank brigade every 2 weeks.


That would be kind of cool to have unique units with personalities assigned to them..like Rudel, Wittman, Hartman..but I don't think at this level of operations that it would really be very realistic. Couldn't hurt to ask even though I already know the answer..lol.

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Post #: 83
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:40:10 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Have a count of the number of attached support units displayed on the counter when you highlight a unit; have the national air reserve displayed in the Order of battle Screen


Section 5.1.3 of the manual describes the color coding for the number of support units attached to the unit. It is a selectable soft factor. Data for the counter itself is already pretty much maxed out.

The National Air reserve for the OOB is a pretty good idea, I'm putting that on the list for sure.

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Post #: 84
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:52:41 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Ability to select/pick colors for units in the editor.


(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 85
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 4:57:44 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		Have a good Easter everyone, I'll be busy tomorrow so probably won't make it on the forum.

Andy

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Post #: 86
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/24/2011 5:51:30 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Just remembered something I've wanted for a long time: can there be some on-map indication to show when a factory hex has been fully-evacced? Especially if you have several games going, it can be difficult to remember where you left off, and very tedious to go clicking from one factory hex to another.

I was thinking that when you select the show factory toggle, factory hexes which have been evacced would be a slightly different color, or show some symbol, etc.

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 87
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/25/2011 12:08:56 AM   
Shupov


Posts: 286
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline 		Which unit is stronger? In mud turns since v1.04.10 it's not obvious. One can go through calculations based on the defensive strength but there is no easy way to tell the difference. This makes it unnecessarily difficult to position forces properly for the 1942 summer campaign for both the Axis and Soviets.

I suggest a third toggle on the 'z' hotkey that shows the unmodified CV. It could display as X+Y where X is the unmodified CV and Y is the movement points remaining. In the example shown the Panzer division might show as 15+23 and the Hungarian calvary as 2+7.

Another possibility is to show the unmodified CV in the Commanders Report.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shupov -- 4/25/2011 12:13:07 AM >

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(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 88
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/25/2011 3:23:40 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline 		I would definitely like to see the air war improved . I mean they already had a great system with Bombing the reich or Witp. I just can't see why the decision was taken to take such a big step backwards in this area.
I'm hoping when we are all said and done to have the greatest Eastern front game ever. It deserves a first class air system. Heck i would even take War in Russia's air system over this one, as i recall i had a blast with the airwar in that game.

My only other gripe is cosmetic. Please give me the ability to change the pink color of 4th Panzer to perhaps the Red of the RHQ or something. I cannot stand having a pink panzer army. The lime green one could go too. (Sorry Esther)

Other than these few complaints i think an excellent job is being done by everyone involved in this project.

P.S. i would also agree to tone down amphibious assaults somewhat.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 89
RE: Game Suggestions: - 4/25/2011 5:06:19 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shupov


I suggest a third toggle on the 'z' hotkey that shows the unmodified CV. It could display as X+Y where X is the unmodified CV and Y is the movement points remaining. In the example shown the Panzer division might show as 15+23 and the Hungarian calvary as 2+7.


Good point, but I would suggest showing the un-modded CVs in the right panel.

(in reply to Shupov)
Post #: 90
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