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RE: T9 - 1/23/2012 11:20:47 PM

bwheatley

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T14 - Thank heavens we're finally a few turns away from winter. The theme of this turn is continuing the general retreat as we see panzers get near. And moscow being cut off.

Loses

North

Moscow

We will be able to spring moscow when the blizzard comes but the units in the pocket (including stavka) will be practically useless. Thankfully with the last updates the units still have a decent CV and have supplies enough to put up a fight. Thankfully ara said he doesn't intend to reduce the moscow pocket since his advance was way too fast and he would feel bad taking moscow.

South

Rostov

Crimea

The advance in the crimea is at least slow.

Ara has let me know he has 3 of his main lines advancing towards moscow so his southern forces are lacking supply to really jump.

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Post #: 151

RE: T9 - 1/24/2012 12:39:33 AM

Baelfiin

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Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

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Post #: 152

RE: T9 - 1/24/2012 11:29:43 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

Yup

looks like your old leningrad pocket my friend

I do not understand Ara. If you are going to make the pocket you should know what to do with it not just pretend it has not happened. This is supposed to be a titanic clash of nations and ideologies, not a Gentleman's Excuse Me dance with Moscow playing the role of handbag.

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Post #: 153

RE: T9 - 1/24/2012 11:36:35 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

Yea I verified that i had good supplies for the guys encircled with the hq's that were there. Then the next turn I had 55 units in the pocket surrender on attack. I really dislike how the cut off mechanic works. I thought it would get better with the changes in the latest beta patch that helped make sure units cut off got supplies from dumps.
The most annoying part of those surrender battles was the germans lost an average of 20 men in each attack.

But next turn is mud and he pulled his tanks out so i should be able to free moscow. But the 355k people who surrendered are gonna pretty much nullify my hopes for a decent blizzard offensive. Hopefully winter will do it's work to weaken the germans.

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Post #: 154

RE: T9 - 1/24/2012 11:37:57 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

Yup

looks like your old leningrad pocket my friend

I do not understand Ara. If you are going to make the pocket you should know what to do with it not just pretend it has not happened. This is supposed to be a titanic clash of nations and ideologies, not a Gentleman's Excuse Me dance with Moscow playing the role of handbag.

Well in not going directly after moscow he was doing me a favor. He knew the tempo was very fast and i think he was starting to feel bad for me. So he got to kill 355 soviets and i get to keep moscow through the winter. Though he told me come spring it's fair game lol. And we've been roleplaying a bit as well.

In our first game i pulled 6 armies off the line in 42 since the soviets were so over powered.

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Post #: 155

RE: T9 - 1/24/2012 11:42:21 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

Yup

looks like your old leningrad pocket my friend

I do not understand Ara. If you are going to make the pocket you should know what to do with it not just pretend it has not happened. This is supposed to be a titanic clash of nations and ideologies, not a Gentleman's Excuse Me dance with Moscow playing the role of handbag.

And we've been roleplaying a bit as well.

roleplaying more as Frasier and Niles Crane than Adolf and Joe methinks

Anyway, it's your game not mine so it doesn't matter what I think......

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Post #: 156

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 3:51:29 AM

Baelfiin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Yikes that moscow pocket is ugly BW.

Yea I verified that i had good supplies for the guys encircled with the hq's that were there. Then the next turn I had 55 units in the pocket surrender on attack. I really dislike how the cut off mechanic works. I thought it would get better with the changes in the latest beta patch that helped make sure units cut off got supplies from dumps.
The most annoying part of those surrender battles was the germans lost an average of 20 men in each attack.

Yeah for sure.
Doesnt matter how much supply they have, its the retreat check that cuases the surrender. especially if the have no where to go. The air supply rule helps, look at my aar with qball he did a great job holding on with air supply in a pocket.

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Post #: 157

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 3:52:43 AM

bwheatley

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LOL have you been watching he's kicking the piss out of me. It's a little more then two friendly shrinks. hehe.

With as much time as we put into the game we just want to both enjoy ourselves.

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Post #: 158

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 6:10:01 PM

bwheatley

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T15

North
Things are pretty quiet here. Looks like they are settling down for winter.

Moscow
Things are getting hairy around moscow. We lost 355k in surrenders around moscow even though i made sure they had >90% supplies and ammo. And moscow was a well stocked city with thousands of tons of supplies. Yet still they gave up the fight. It looks like time to setup the destruction brigades to keep soldiers from surrendering.

Central
The line in the central part of the country is very line and brittle but with only 1 more turn before mud we hope the panzers stay away.

Rostov
We are hopeful the germans don't make a last ditch jump before mud to get a foothold into the caucasus's.

Crimea
We have managed to hold them from massive gains now that we are at a choke point. And we're busy entrenching the east end of the kerch strait.

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Post #: 159

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 9:27:08 PM

bwheatley

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T16

OOB
Well it appears a lot of my tank factories have finally rebuild if you look at the t13 oob here

We had about 1300 tanks..now for the t16 oob.

Those tanks make me happy even though they will be pretty useless until the 43 tank corp toe.

North
The theme of T16 as the last turn before mud is lines! We have finally been able to make a solid front line for the first time since the beginning of the war. Comrade stalin is exceptionally happy.

Moscow
We've freed moscow from it's 2 week siege. I guess all the panzers have gone to take up winter quarters.
Now the only trouble will be hopefully the auto rail repair units fix the rail line into moscow so i can get the rest of her factories out. I'm confident that come spring the germans will try to finish what they started with moscow.

The central line looks exactly like last turn.

Rostov
Looks like the germans wanted a foot hold over the Don bend.

Crimea
We've managed to save a little face and keep the germans from crossing the kerch strait. We are building defenses on the east side of the strait since we know the germans will be back next year.

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Post #: 160

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 9:32:53 PM

bwheatley

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Our winter plans are probably shot. But we are going to try to get back over the don by rostov as well as establish a perimeter a bit further away from moscow.
Very humble goals but we hope that our cold russian winter works its magic on the german invaders.

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Post #: 161

RE: T9 - 1/25/2012 11:46:20 PM

Q-Ball

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Yikes.....that's a bad summer. What are your total losses? I am guessing you have lost in excess of 4.5 mil, with over 3 mil of those POWs.

Good AAR, and it's not easy posting when you are not doing well

There was no reason for him to allow you to re-open Moscow. I think your opponent maybe didn't want to kill-off the game......

It will be interesting to see if you can last through 1942

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 1/25/2012 11:48:07 PM >

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Post #: 162

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 1:15:56 AM

Flaviusx

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I would be resigning here, tbh. And Abul gave you a break by Moscow, yes. He doesn't want you throwing in the towel, plainly, but you probably should.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/26/2012 1:17:47 AM >

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Post #: 163

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 6:09:14 AM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Yikes.....that's a bad summer. What are your total losses? I am guessing you have lost in excess of 4.5 mil, with over 3 mil of those POWs.

Good AAR, and it's not easy posting when you are not doing well

There was no reason for him to allow you to re-open Moscow. I think your opponent maybe didn't want to kill-off the game......

It will be interesting to see if you can last through 1942

Well we discussed moscow and yea the overly fast tempo he didn't want to take advantage of. And we also wanted to see if the update recently that was supposed to fix encircled units using supplies from an HQ and city worked. It didn't really moscow had tens of thousands of supplies in the city and the units still folded like little girls. Also he allowed me to reopen moscow because the supplies for encircled units was not working right. And all my airbases routed out of the pocket and the troops were not drawing supplies properly from moscow. So we agreed he'd let me make a opening. Also it was T16 and he didn't want to get stuck in mud again.

My losses starting T17 are
4,086,052
with 2.95 of that being captured 350k killed and 782k disabled.

Germany has 421k in losses 300k of that disables.

I'm confident i'll survive in 42 especially with the tweak that keeps germany from being uber in march 42. :)
My army is already back up over 3 million again. Russians are a strong people and we shall overcome.

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Post #: 164

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 9:12:18 AM

delatbabel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

I'm confident i'll survive in 42 especially with the tweak that keeps germany from being uber in march 42. :)
My army is already back up over 3 million again. Russians are a strong people and we shall overcome.

I'm not aware of any such tweak.

I think you are completely toasted. With the Finns free you won't have much of a blizzard offensive, and it will all be negated in the first week of March '42. Moscow will fall fairly quickly and after that it's into the Caucasus and beyond. You have lost too much territory, and you've had major manpower centres destroyed so you won't be recovering at all from that.

You could consider dropping some forts along the line from Yaroslavl to Gorky, maybe including Ivanovo to try to make him fight for that. From there you form a line back along the Volga to Ufa, to try to protect your factories. Forget anything south of that, it's all going to go. You can hold the Germans along the Terek river line and delta north of Makhachkala, the mountains west of Baku are pretty impregnable.

In the north the Finns won't push past the swamp line north of Cherepovets, there aren't enough of them.

It's a long way from there to Berlin mind you. Your opponent is just toying with you at this point by letting you keep Moscow when he could have taken out probably 1/4 of your army in crushing the pocket. I would accept Flaviusx's advice and try to do better next game.

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Post #: 165

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 3:15:07 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

I'm confident i'll survive in 42 especially with the tweak that keeps germany from being uber in march 42. :)
My army is already back up over 3 million again. Russians are a strong people and we shall overcome.

I'm not aware of any such tweak.

I think you are completely toasted. With the Finns free you won't have much of a blizzard offensive, and it will all be negated in the first week of March '42. Moscow will fall fairly quickly and after that it's into the Caucasus and beyond. You have lost too much territory, and you've had major manpower centres destroyed so you won't be recovering at all from that.

You could consider dropping some forts along the line from Yaroslavl to Gorky, maybe including Ivanovo to try to make him fight for that. From there you form a line back along the Volga to Ufa, to try to protect your factories. Forget anything south of that, it's all going to go. You can hold the Germans along the Terek river line and delta north of Makhachkala, the mountains west of Baku are pretty impregnable.

In the north the Finns won't push past the swamp line north of Cherepovets, there aren't enough of them.

It's a long way from there to Berlin mind you. Your opponent is just toying with you at this point by letting you keep Moscow when he could have taken out probably 1/4 of your army in crushing the pocket. I would accept Flaviusx's advice and try to do better next game.

Appreciate the advice. Still it's frustrating to think the best way to survive is not fight historically at the front. The first part of the war never feels right. The soviets are unable to stand and fight where they want or really cause any thing other then a speed bump to the german army. No bleeding the germans by smolensk. I mean i could be a horrible player but a few of the games i've played against ara have gone pretty well for me.

Once the next patch comes out hopefully the axis will be a little rebalanced to not allow the super fast tempo. One of the major things i personally goofed on was not realizing the fort changes this time in >1.05. I should have had fort units back by moscow to get them growing from T1. By the time ara was within range to trigger fort construction without fort units they were only level 2 and he blew through those pretty easily.

In the end i know it's not completely me since the first 3 games we played together i was able to halt him west of moscow by winter. And that gives me a little comfort.
And the reason i won't resign is because what fun is that for the german player? It's like in WITP when the allied player always quits if the japs have a good first year.

If i'm not able to recover then so be it I'll go down fighting. How can I be miffed a german player won't stay through 1945 if soviet players jump ship when it looks bleak.

We shall pray the 1.05 winter is still harsh enough to weaken the german army enough to give me a hope of surviving past 42.

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Post #: 166

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 9:36:29 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would be resigning here, tbh. And Abul gave you a break by Moscow, yes. He doesn't want you throwing in the towel, plainly, but you probably should.

I think this is a very poor attitude and it only leads to people quitting games way too early.

I should know as I was in the same boat and a player quit my game just before winter. It was very upsetting and almost made me questioning ever playing against a human opponent. This is not the type of game given the huge amount of time invested to just decide to quit 20 turns into a 200 turn game. People that like to quit games should only play AI or stick to smaller scenarios. Luckily another player on the forum saw my plight and picked up the game where the other person left.

Personally I thinking the people claiming it is over are off base. Sure it was a good start for the Axis, but a lot can happen in the next 4 years. It seems Bill was able to keep his industry at about a historical level? With that said, manpower is something the Soviets will get plenty of each turn. The minimum I've received as Soviets when I was pushed back a lot further than this was 110,000 per turn. That's 1 million men every 9 turns! Let me repeat for some of you... 1 million men every 9 turns. This does not include all the Siberians and other units the Soviets get late 41. So they can grow back their army relatively quickly.

Also, historical loses for the Soviets were around 5-6 million at the end of 41, depending on your sources. So he's still under that.

But I'm very ashamed for some of the comments here about this game. As long as Bill is having fun playing on and looks forward to the challenge .. people should support him. So rather than give him advice to quit the game (like a quitter would

.. IMO) let's give him advice to try and turn this around.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 1/26/2012 9:37:51 PM >

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RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 9:50:10 PM

bwheatley

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Also starting turn 18 i'm still adding about 106k to my manpower pool a turn and i think we're going to be ok in the long run.

If all the games ended in 41 or 42 what fun would that be. :)

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Post #: 168

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:01:11 PM

Flaviusx

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Jzardos, you won the game. Why are you upset? Because you didn't get a chance to run up the score?

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Post #: 169

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:05:09 PM

veji1

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Indeed. The defeatists should be hanged ! Also I think they might have, for a moment, forgotten that lots of players play for fun first, and to win second. Quitting because you think you can't win anymore is no fun...

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RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:06:48 PM

Encircled

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Got to agree with the "quitters" here. Your opponent has kept you in the game, which is fine, but probably will just see you surrendering sometime in Aug '42

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Post #: 171

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:43:51 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Jzardos, you won the game. Why are you upset? Because you didn't get a chance to run up the score?

Umm, 'run up the scrore'? I think you have me confused with yourself? I don't care about the score. Just playing game because I enjoy the War in the East context. I was doing well, but that game was not over... and the person you took over is holding me at about the same line in 43. I've done well in ONLY 2/6 games (others I took beatings), but I've played but have continued all of them as long as my opponent has wanted. Other games ended because of new versions with significant changes or people not having time to play one.

If Bill has a personal situation with doesn't allow him to continue games due to time constraints or something, that is very different and ok. But to quit games just to play another because your opponent has a good start is wrong IMO.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 1/26/2012 10:44:44 PM >

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Post #: 172

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:47:31 PM

bwheatley

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heh thanks jzardos. Yea it certainly feels tough but i think with the winter we'll get our army another 2.8 million people added to it. I'm going to be placing forts like crazy for the 42 campaign. Ara has hinted that he might go back after gorki in spring 42 which still has a lot of industry in it (he missed it by 2 hexes this try before mud stopped him). Though i know he was reading the rules and thinks he might make a dash for russian oil since it's modifier does not change if he captures it. He isn't sure if he will have fuel shortages enough to worry about it but he wants to keep it historical. But he did say 42 might or might not have a feint before his main spring advance. He said his northern lines are already to get put into static mode after winter is over.

To counter his winter destruction in our last game this time he's pulled back 10-15 hexes my recon is showing me. So i'll spend the mud turns trying to close the distance to him. But not so close that the first couple snow turns get me jumped.

Priorities:

1) Get the rail line repaired from moscow to the rest of the world so i can evac it's industry.
2) Get reinforcements into the moscow zone to prepare a larger buffer come spring 42.
3) Get forts built to protect stalingrad and caucasus's.
4) Keep building up the kerch strait for the 42 push into the backdoor of the caucasus's

quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would be resigning here, tbh. And Abul gave you a break by Moscow, yes. He doesn't want you throwing in the towel, plainly, but you probably should.

I think this is a very poor attitude and it only leads to people quitting games way too early. I should know as I was in the same boat and a player quit my game just before winter. It was very upsetting and almost made me questioning ever playing against a human opponent. This is not the type of game given the huge amount of time invested to just decide to quit 20 turns into a 200 turn game. People that like to quit games should only play AI or stick to smaller scenarios. Luckily another player on the forum saw my plight and picked up the game where the other person left.

Personally I thinking the people claiming it is over are off base. Sure it was a good start for the Axis, but a lot can happen in the next 4 years. It seems Bill was able to keep his industry at about a historical level? With that said, manpower is something the Soviets will get plenty of each turn. The minimum I've received as Soviets when I was pushed back a lot further than this was 110,000 per turn. That's 1 million men every 9 turns! Let me repeat for some of you... 1 million men every 9 turns. This does not include all the Siberians and other units the Soviets get late 41. So they can grow back their army relatively quickly.

Also, historical loses for the Soviets were around 5-6 million at the end of 41, depending on your sources. So he's still under that.

But I'm very ashamed for some of the comments here about this game. As long as Bill is having fun playing on and looks forward to the challenge .. people should support him. So rather than give him advice to quit the game (like a quitter would .. IMO) let's give him advice to try and turn this around.

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Post #: 173

RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:57:09 PM

Flaviusx

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Don't go nuts on those forts. They are actually quite useless for doing anything other than preventing fort decay during the winter. You can't actually do much to fortify in poor weather now, the penalties are huge. If you haven't got forts dug in already, don't expect much.

As far as calling games go, my position is this: runaways aren't interesting. If a match isn't competitive and one side or the other is just being taken to the cleaners, it's completely ok for the loser to acknowledge this, throw in the towel, admit he's lost, and start over. Nor should the winner feel "robbed." If he has any sense of honor whatsoever, he'll actually feel embarrassed at how badly it's going for the other side and take the win. There's no need to humiliate the other guy.

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RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 10:57:39 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Got to agree with the "quitters" here. Your opponent has kept you in the game, which is fine, but probably will just see you surrendering sometime in Aug '42

I would't say he kept me in the game as much as we both talked about it and were interested more in seeing if the encirclement enhancements would work (ie supply to units encircled with an hq and city giving it supplies should get dispersed more effectively). Granted i told him i'd try to keep him from encircling moscow which i was not very effective at blocking. But he said he had no interest in taking moscow in 41 just to be run out during the blizzard.

We're both not very big fans of the way it encirclement works now. Troops turning into wet noodles after being cut off then springing back to a higher CV if you happen to free them on the same turn. :)

Now all that said without any hq buildups at all he's doing a great job of making my hair fall out. lol

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RE: T9 - 1/26/2012 11:05:51 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Don't go nuts on those forts. They are actually quite useless for doing anything other than preventing fort decay during the winter. You can't actually do much to fortify in poor weather now, the penalties are huge. If you haven't got forts dug in already, don't expect much.

As far as calling games go, my position is this: runaways aren't interesting. If a match isn't competitive and one side or the other is just being taken to the cleaners, it's completely ok for the loser to acknowledge this, throw in the towel, admit he's lost, and start over. Nor should the winner feel "robbed." If he has any sense of honor whatsoever, he'll actually feel embarrassed at how badly it's going for the other side and take the win. There's no need to humiliate the other guy.

Gee i didn't know i was being humiliated lol. :) It's certainly not the best game i've played so far. Probably more due to ara's gameplay this time instead of some difference in my strategy. I'm never going to be one of those run away guys it's just not my style. I think 1.05 really did a lot to change the game dynamics looking at the battle totals in the game so far:

stakva 35 wins 1042 defeats

my best front has been nw front
39W/228L

my army in that front has been the 11th army
32W/85L

And the rules say you need fort units to get to level 3. I have a lot of level 2 forts around that i want to take to the next level but 8 ap per fort was too much for my blood. I had other things i'd rather spend AP on. :)

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RE: T9 - 1/27/2012 12:02:55 AM

randallw

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I suggest, if you play on, once you have spent APs pulling together the cavalry ( for corps ) you can order up some more rifle divisions. You may have lost enough of them to the point that you don't have an excess amount ( unless you allowed a bunch of armament factories to be overrun ).

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Post #: 177

RE: T9 - 1/27/2012 12:34:24 AM

Schmart

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
And the rules say you need fort units to get to level 3. I have a lot of level 2 forts around that i want to take to the next level but 8 ap per fort was too much for my blood. I had other things i'd rather spend AP on. :)

Be sure to maximize this. Any hex adjacent to a Fort can get to lvl 3. Lvl 4 needs a Fort in the hex. So to get a line of lvl 3 you only need a Fort every 3 hexes, with other units in between. Also, Forts go down to 4 APs IIRC in Nov 1941. I usually start building my 'Stand-Fast Line' in an arc 5-7 hexes outside Moscow. Even starting on turn 1, it's tough to get much above lvl 3 before the Germans arrive, and they can usually push back a few forts just before mud. Attach all the Moscow area Forts to an HQ and load a bunch of Construction Brigades into the HQ to help dig. But don't rely on Forts: Rifle Divisions have to do the digging, Forts just get it up to lvl 3. You can use 'Digger Armies' in a similar fashion in other areas, or just pump a bunch of Const Bdes into a regular HQ to help those units dig faster.

(in reply to bwheatley)

Post #: 178

RE: T9 - 1/27/2012 4:32:38 PM

jzardos

Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Don't go nuts on those forts. They are actually quite useless for doing anything other than preventing fort decay during the winter. You can't actually do much to fortify in poor weather now, the penalties are huge. If you haven't got forts dug in already, don't expect much.

As far as calling games go, my position is this: runaways aren't interesting. If a match isn't competitive and one side or the other is just being taken to the cleaners, it's completely ok for the loser to acknowledge this, throw in the towel, admit he's lost, and start over. Nor should the winner feel "robbed." If he has any sense of honor whatsoever, he'll actually feel embarrassed at how badly it's going for the other side and take the win. There's no need to humiliate the other guy.

Glad to see you trying to help Bill and not insult his intelligence or his opponents motives playing the game. There are people out there, which are friends, that like to play these types of game and also keep them interesting and going because it's such a huge time investments. But if both sides agree before a game starts that it's not until the end or some real life constraints, nobody should quit (before auto-vic). I'll always make that clear before I start games now, but still obviously no guarantees.

I'm glad Bill has seen the honor in playing on and there's nothing wrong with abulbulian being a sportsman and agree to some terms to keep the game fun. It's their game...

I agree not to go crazy on forts, don't build any new ones until they are cheap in Nov. Get lots of Sapper and RR construction units, and spread them out to each army in a zone with diggers.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 179

RE: T9 - 1/27/2012 5:47:56 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would be resigning here, tbh. And Abul gave you a break by Moscow, yes. He doesn't want you throwing in the towel, plainly, but you probably should.

I think this is a very poor attitude and it only leads to people quitting games way too early. I should know as I was in the same boat and a player quit my game just before winter. It was very upsetting and almost made me questioning ever playing against a human opponent. This is not the type of game given the huge amount of time invested to just decide to quit 20 turns into a 200 turn game. People that like to quit games should only play AI or stick to smaller scenarios. Luckily another player on the forum saw my plight and picked up the game where the other person left.

Personally I thinking the people claiming it is over are off base. Sure it was a good start for the Axis, but a lot can happen in the next 4 years. It seems Bill was able to keep his industry at about a historical level? With that said, manpower is something the Soviets will get plenty of each turn. The minimum I've received as Soviets when I was pushed back a lot further than this was 110,000 per turn. That's 1 million men every 9 turns! Let me repeat for some of you... 1 million men every 9 turns. This does not include all the Siberians and other units the Soviets get late 41. So they can grow back their army relatively quickly.

Also, historical loses for the Soviets were around 5-6 million at the end of 41, depending on your sources. So he's still under that.

But I'm very ashamed for some of the comments here about this game. As long as Bill is having fun playing on and looks forward to the challenge .. people should support him. So rather than give him advice to quit the game (like a quitter would .. IMO) let's give him advice to try and turn this around.

In Flaviusx defence I have had 8 poeple drop out in 41 and another 3 in 42.

It is a game and if your not having fun then I have no problem with the other guy dropping out.

If you can gain something from the game keep playing if not then play again.

Have fun should be the goal.

Pelton

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to jzardos)

Post #: 180