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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:21:57 PM   
obvert


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Jocke goes for more industry in Manchuria, but only knocks a point off of Mukden's LI.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:25:06 PM   
obvert


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As predicted we lose about 30 - 35 planes searching to CV and Moppo CAP. Yes, Moppo was opened and used to guard transports dropping reinforcements. The cruel inaccuracies of recon misguide our commanders into thinking the base was still closed. Yet, no. It wasn't.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:27:02 PM   
obvert


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The air strikes again opened positively, with a few good hits on APA/AKA retreating perilously close to the Japanese coastline.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:28:45 PM   
obvert


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Even some of the non-torpedo enabled lanes got into the act. The low flying Frances got a number of hits, but NONE of the Peggy (T) groups with working torps spread out to smaller bases flew at all.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:32:37 PM   
obvert


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Eventually Japanese group leaders listened to the frenetic reports of unlading troops and equipment at Moppo and decided to have a go. That ended badly every time. most of the 450 planes lost during the turn went here rather than hitting the numerous high value transports unCAPed and CLOSER off the coast of Kyushu.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:34:13 PM   
obvert


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All little dribbling packets again, no bigger raids with 100 or so escorts, no. Just nice little groups of planes flying to the communal deaths.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:35:31 PM   
obvert


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This packet managed to get 10 Peggy kamis through ...




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:36:18 PM   
obvert


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... and they all missed.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:37:33 PM   
obvert


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Meanwhile whoever is running the groups at Oita deserves a promotion, as all three groups go for the unguarded APA TFs.




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< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 6:41:36 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:43:03 PM   
obvert


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A few more nice pics from the groups at Kagoshima who also seem to get it.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:44:53 PM   
obvert


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Finally one of the Tsuragi kami groups goes from Nagasaki, but manages to somehow locate a groups 120 miles farther out than the ones right near it's own base. Of course the other three kami groups here don't fly anywhere.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:46:32 PM   
obvert


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A post turn pic. The more highly experienced group flies. Aren't kamis supposed to be nubes?!? Shouldn't they fly for their country, and honor and all that?




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:49:00 PM   
obvert


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So this changes everything. For now. It's nice to have the Iowas scurried home tail between legs, bu the Allies actually land 130k troops and equipment over night to a port listed as 43 percent damaged. We are now moving troops back to Gunzan. The offensive is off. APAs mean one thing; more divisions.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:53:03 PM   
obvert


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Here is the loss screen for the day. Not terrible, and since only half of the set groups fly, at least we conserved planes. Is this really how I should think about the game though? Having to worry about AI supply calculations to know whether planes will fly one place with the same supply that lets them fly easily somewhere else? Should uncapped ships just sail by after being mauled in the morning, and still in the afternoon the rest of the groups don't pile on?

Ah, love the game, but there are some really unrealistic things to deal with every once in a while. Sucks. There should be a special mode at the end for kami flight late in game. I'm sure they didn't get enough fuel to go both ways, right?




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< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 6:53:52 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 5:57:56 PM   
obvert


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So strategically Jocke has managed to pull this one back from the brink in Korea. The introduction of the Iowas, however unsuccessful, still kept us from bombarding on the previous day, so that let the airfield be open for today. That is huge.

Now I've chosen to pull back all air forces from Korea. The withdrawal began today and will finish as soon as all planes are fixed there. Also shipping back (hopefully) the 1500AS at Fusan. It's all about the Home Islands now. I'll let the Korean armies do what they can and try to hold back the reinforced Allies, hitting when I'm able. Maybe in a while when the moon is brighter I'll make a few more forays to Moppo.




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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 6:21:32 PM   
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I can sense your frustration and believe me when I say I feel that 99% of the time. I'm sure I'm labeled by most as a complainer, but I expect more from this game at times and agree that being told to lower one's expectations sucks, but it's also true. You can't program common sense and this game shows that perfectly. Anyway, this isn't about me.

I think you played Korea perfectly. You pushed what you could and as long as Moppo was closed and no reinforcements arrived you had a chance to cause mischief. Now, you realize that jig is up and it's time to get focused once again on defending the Home Islands. You forced Jocke to dance a few days to your tune until the record stopped, that's worth kudos right there. You inflicted some nice losses, but recognize the window of opportunity is closing and rather than foolishly risk assets for little gain you've done the smart thing. Well played!

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/12/2014 7:22:18 PM >


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RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 6:38:27 PM   
obvert


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6 June 1945
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

SUBS: Two subs go down, the other two are hit but still in the thick of it. At least I-14 gets the damaged DD Zenith.

KOREA: This changes things yet again. I'm convinced by the number of troops that the Allies brought more combat forces with the reinforcements. I don't want to get caught in the open, so the troops in the clear will retreat to Gunzan. It has only level 1 forts, but should have about 5k AV with a ton of arty once everything is back there. Masan has now 6500AV and even more arty, but the +3 terrain in the center has only about 2k AV. I'll beef that up. It's all about containment.

The skys wil be conceded for now. Have at it!

As I mentioned, turning on the search for all grouse [EDIT:they might as well be grouse, as easily as they are shot down!!) has it's consequences:

Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search E13A1 Jake destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP
Search E7K2 Alf destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E7K2 Alf destroyed by CAP
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search D4Y1 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search D4Y4 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search H8K2 Emily destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E15K1 Norm destroyed by CAP at (96,56)
Search D4Y4 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP
Search D4Y4 Judy destroyed by CAP
Search D4Y4 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-46-II Dinah destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-46-II Dinah destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-30 Ann destroyed by CAP at (96,56)

Search H8K2 Emily destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search D4Y1 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP at (96,56)
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP
Search E7K2 Alf destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search D4Y4 Judy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B7A2 Grace destroyed by CAP
Search E15K1 Norm destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP
Search B6N2a Jill destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-21-IIa Sally destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-21-IIa Sally destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-21-IIa Sally destroyed by CAP



Might be a new record; 61 planes lost to defending CAP in the search phase!

STRAT BOMBING: The B-29s hit Mukden and Keijo for little damage. A few shot down, but only about 3-4.

HOME ISLANDS: Defenses will shift to cover the full range of targets on the Home Islands now. Lots of cover on Hiroshima and Yokohama with the CVs repairing. All strike planes (hopefully) stood down. I usually miss one or two groups who gamely fly off alone once I don't want them to.

CHINA: I have an idea. More soon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 6, 45 - NIGHT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 243 encounters mine field at Fusan (103,55)

Japanese Ships
AMc Choun Maru #7, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

35 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 301 encounters mine field at Fusan (103,55)

Japanese Ships
AMc Fuji Maru #4
AMc Shintohoku Maru

70 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moppo at 99,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-202, hits 1

Allied Ships
APA Hendry
APA Navarro
APA McCracken
APA Mountrail
DD Patterson

SS I-202 is sighted by escort
I-202 bottoming out ....
DD Patterson fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moppo at 99,54

Japanese Ships
SS RO-112, hits 11

Allied Ships
xAP Weltevreden
xAP Cape Cleare
DE Gilmer

SS RO-112 is sighted by escort
RO-112 bottoming out ....
DE Gilmer fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Gilmer attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moppo at 99,53

Japanese Ships
SS I-201, hits 18

Allied Ships
CL Topeka
DD Cowell
DD Brown
DD Niblack
DD Gleaves
DD Benson
DD Charles Hughes

SS I-201 is sighted by escort
DD Niblack attacking submerged sub ....
DD Gleaves fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Gleaves attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-201 eludes ASW attack from DD Gleaves
DD Gleaves fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Moppo at 99,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-124, hits 18, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Worden
APA Highlands
APA Bowie
APA Kenton
APA Menard
APA Dawson
APA Banner
APA Freestone
APA Riverside
AKA Circe
AKA Caswell
AKA Cyrene
DD Stuart
DD Aylwin

SS I-124 is sighted by escort
DD Stuart fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Aylwin attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-124 forced to surface!
DD Aylwin firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Moppo at 100,55, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-1004, on fire

Allied Ships
CL Duluth
CL Topeka
CL Oklahoma City
DD Brown
DD Cowell
DD Hoel
DD Mayo
DD Madison
DD Charles Hughes
DD Benson
DD Gleaves
DD Niblack
CL Atlanta II

Reduced sighting due to 14% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 14% moonlight: 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Moppo at 98,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-14

Allied Ships
DD Zenith, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

DD Zenith is sighted by SS I-14
SS I-14 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Zenith

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Moppo at 100,55

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-56, hits 15, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Mjollner
DD Chevalier
DD Spence

SSX Ha-56 is sighted by escort
DD Spence attacking submerged sub ....
SSX Ha-56 forced to surface!
DD Spence firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Myngs
DD Zealous

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
H8K2 Emily x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K2 Emily: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Hobart
CL Ceylon

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x H8K2 Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Banzai! - Kojima O. in a H8K2 Emily is willing to die for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mukden , at 104,42

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 13

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 26
B-29B Superfort x 21

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 3 damaged

Light Industry hits 1
Heavy Industry hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Keijo , at 103,50

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 15

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Zambesi
DD Saumarez
DD Myngs

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moppo at 99,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-202, hits 24, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DE Sederstrom
DE Rall

SS I-202 launches 2 torpedoes at DE Sederstrom
I-202 bottoming out ....
DE Sederstrom attacking submerged sub ....
DE Rall attacking submerged sub ....
Sounds of submarine breaking up detected!
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 301 encounters mine field at Fusan (103,55)

Japanese Ships
AMc Fuji Maru #4, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AMc Shintohoku Maru

80 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Moppo at 97,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-14, hits 14 A CV TF!!! But no luck this time.

Allied Ships
CLAA Argonaut
DE Calpe
DE Tabberer
DE Richard W. Suesens

SS I-14 is sighted by escort
I-14 bottoming out ....
DE Calpe fails to find sub and abandons search

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 6, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Iki-shima , at 102,57

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 20
J2M5 Jack x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 2
Ki-84r Frank x 22
Ki-100-I Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 7 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 100,56

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 53 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
AKA Andromeda, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
APA President Adams
DD Russell

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 100,56

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 6 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
APA President Monroe
APA Pitt, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APA St. Mary's, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x P1Y2 Frances bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Banzai! - Banno P. in a P1Y2 Frances is willing to die for the Emperor
Banzai! - Mikami E. in a P1Y2 Frances is willing to die for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Fukue-jima at 99,58

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 1,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
APA Windsor, Bomb hits 1
AKA Devosa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Worden
APA Freestone, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x P1Y2 Frances bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Banzai! - Hirano H. in a P1Y2 Frances is willing to die for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Fukue-jima at 99,57

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 54 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 12
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
APA John Land
APA Henrico
AKA Valencia, Kamikaze hits 1, heavy damage
APA Fremont, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Matsumoto B. gives his life for the Emperor by ramming AKA Valencia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Moppo , at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 6
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 20
Ki-102b Randy x 9

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 12
Spitfire VIII x 92
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 74
P-47N Thunderbolt x 77
F4U-1D Corsair x 29

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 4 destroyed
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 14 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 4 destroyed


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 111 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 13
N1K2-J George x 20
P1Y2 Frances x 12
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 70

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 12
Spitfire VIII x 89
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 73
P-47N Thunderbolt x 75
F4U-1D Corsair x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 4 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 7 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 13 destroyed


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AK Melucta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Moppo , at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 10
N1K2-J George x 13
P1Y2 Frances x 12
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 15

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 12
Spitfire VIII x 87
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 73
P-47N Thunderbolt x 75
F4U-1D Corsair x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 5 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 8 destroyed
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 10 destroyed


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 9
Ki-100-I Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 8
Spitfire VIII x 73
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 58
P-47N Thunderbolt x 68
F4U-1D Corsair x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-100-I Tony: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
LST-227

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Fukue-jima at 99,57

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 21
A7M2 Sam x 25
D4Y4 Judy x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
APA Mountrail, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
APA Effingham, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APA Oconto
APA Baxter

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 40
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 20
Ki-84a Frank x 15

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 5
Spitfire VIII x 58
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 35
P-47N Thunderbolt x 62
F4U-1D Corsair x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 19 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 14 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-47N Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 100,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 185 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia Peggy x 20
Ki-84r Frank x 9

Allied aircraft
Spitfire F.XIV x 4
Spitfire VIII x 53
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 28
P-47N Thunderbolt x 57
F4U-1D Corsair x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 12 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAK Gard
xAP Maori
xAK Mariso
xAK Langkoeas
xAP Merkur
SC PC-1086
xAP Maui

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 6, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 100,56

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 4
D4Y4 Judy x 7
J2M5 Jack x 6
N1K2-J George x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 3 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
APA Fuller
AKA Procyon, Kamikaze hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D4Y4 Judy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 1 x 800 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 100,56

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 5
B5N1 Kate x 6
J2M5 Jack x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
APA St. Mary's, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Fukue-jima at 99,57

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 5 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
APA Hendry, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Shubrick

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Fukue-jima at 99,57

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 42
B6N2a Jill x 33
N1K2-J George x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
APA Fremont, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AKA Valencia, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Aircraft Attacking:
33 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Moppo at 99,54

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 21
Ki-115a Tsurugi x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-115a Tsurugi: 6 destroyed

Allied Ships
DE Electra
DE Rall
DE Sederstrom

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-115a Tsurugi flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 1 x 800 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 6, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,55 (near Pingsiang)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4110 troops, 270 guns, 305 vehicles, Assault Value = 2098

Defending force 125921 troops, 1255 guns, 699 vehicles, Assault Value = 3591

Japanese ground losses:
588 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 6 disabled


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
27th Infantry Division
43rd Infantry Division
2nd British Division
18th British Division
7th Infantry Division
XV Indian Corps
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
28th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
India Command
85th British AT Gun Regiment
8th Medium Regiment
87th Medium Regiment
208th Field Regiment
55th Heavy Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
68th Division
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
67th Ind.Infantry Battalion
62nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Division
27th Division
15th Division
22nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
36th Division
131st Division
71st Engineer Regiment
92nd Infantry Brigade
61st Infantry Brigade
110th Division
22nd Division
132nd Division
31st Engineer Regiment
17th JAAF Base Force
North China Area Army
9th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
74th Field AA Battalion
2nd Rocket Gun Battalion
130th Division
11th Army
11th Field Artillery Regiment
12th Army
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
21st Mortar Battalion
72nd Field AA Battalion
China Expeditionary Army
75th Field AA Battalion
101st AA Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd JAAF AF Bn
38th Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
31st Mountain Gun Regiment
15th AA Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
10th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
22nd AA Regiment
11th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
56th JAAF AF Bn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reinforcements:

82nd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
83rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
84th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
86th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo


Losses:


Loss of SS I-124 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of SS I-202 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-56 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-60 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of SSX Ha-61 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of MGB G-464 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted
Loss of MGB G-466 on Jun 06, 1945 is admitted


Ships Sunk:


DD Zenith is reported to have been sunk near Moppo on Jun 06, 1945
SS Mingo is reported to have been sunk near Fukue-jima on May 24, 1945
APA Fremont is reported to have been sunk near Fukue-jima on Jun 06, 1945
AKA Valencia is reported to have been sunk near Fukue-jima on Jun 06, 1945
AKA Hydrus is reported to have been sunk near Moppo on May 16, 1945
TK Caliche is reported to have been sunk near Tinian on Nov 22, 1944
Previous report of sinking of SS Statesman incorrect. Intelligence reports ship is still in service

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Typical of he groups that didn't fly strikes. Lost several planes and pilots during search, but no strike missions, even at easy unprotected targets in range.

These most likely are what brought most of the strike planes to hit the wall of CAP at Moppo. Coastwatchers: YOU'RE FIRED!

Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 8 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 10 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 12 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 9 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 8 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 10 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 9 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 10 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 11 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 3 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 8 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 10 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 9 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 4 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 13 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 3 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 11 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 101,54 near Moppo , Speed 14 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 11 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 11 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 7 Allied ships at 99,55 near Saishu To , Speed 7 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 8 Allied ships at 99,55 near Saishu To , Speed 11 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 12 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 12 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 10 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 10 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 12 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 7 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 11 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 9 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 7 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 4 Allied ships at 99,55 near Saishu To , Speed 9 , Moving Southeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 2 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 6 , Moving East
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 3 , Moving West
Coastwatcher sighting: 7 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 2 , Moving Northeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 0 , Moving Northeast
Coastwatcher sighting: 6 Allied ships at 100,54 near Moppo , Speed 4 , Moving Northwest

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 7:50:21 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3257
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 7:25:29 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
I'll second what Mr. Lemon said.

You managed to actually drive the actions of the Allied forces for the past couple weeks which is no small feet for a late war Japan. Nice job!

In Korea - if you haven't already bought all the AA units out, have you concentrated them in the places you want to defend? I know it isn't the greatest, but every little bit helps.

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 3258
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 7:36:02 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

After this we got a sighting of the biggest of the big before the MTB was vaporized. nice that two are burning, which makes me feel like at least those hits are somewhat serious.




I'm not fully up on this, but I thought that the smoke graphic also showed above a certain system damage level (like ">10"). So does that graphic really mean that two are still on fire?

_____________________________


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Post #: 3259
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 7:46:50 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
Seeing as you yourself thought Moppo was going to be unCAPed based off the previous turns intel, don't you think it's unrealistic for the AI to understand that and not send strike aircraft there? I think people tend to underestimate the effect of FOW and friction, especially with the Japanese who had less sophisticated communication networks than the US. There is a reason IRL why Japanese LBA failed to have a significant impact in stopping the USN juggernaut during the latter half of the war and it was not just the lack of skill/experience of the individual pilots. You should expect the AI to make boneheaded mistakes and fail to coordinate strikes because that's just what happened IRL. Although I agree it's a bit unfortunate you cannot give more specific orders to air groups such as bases to stay away from. Would be nice if you could put arcs like you can for NAVs but oh well.

As for the supply issue I guess that's the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles. Again, I believe it is perfectly accurate and historical for AI to move supply around illogical ways because that's just what happened in the war. Getting the right parts to the right bases in a timely matter IRL was HARD and the problem is compounded by the variety of Japanese planes. If you read historical accounts of campaigns and look at the logistical details you find dozens of stories of things like a division receiving an extra 10,000 uniforms but no rain gear then getting drenched by rain for weeks straight because two cargo ships got mixed up. The best way to counteract that was just sending extra of everything which obviously isn't happening when all your supply stockpiles are low.

However, I definitely agree about the Kamis should just skip the experience checks when determining whether or not they will fly missions. Maybe in future patches this can be implemented because it's a lot more accurate.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3260
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:05:24 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Seeing as you yourself thought Moppo was going to be unCAPed based off the previous turns intel, don't you think it's unrealistic for the AI to understand that and not send strike aircraft there? I think people tend to underestimate the effect of FOW and friction, especially with the Japanese who had less sophisticated communication networks than the US. There is a reason IRL why Japanese LBA failed to have a significant impact in stopping the USN juggernaut during the latter half of the war and it was not just the lack of skill/experience of the individual pilots. You should expect the AI to make boneheaded mistakes and fail to coordinate strikes because that's just what happened IRL. Although I agree it's a bit unfortunate you cannot give more specific orders to air groups such as bases to stay away from. Would be nice if you could put arcs like you can for NAVs but oh well.


The AI works in game on DL. The coast watchers provided better DL than anything this turn. That's most likely why most strike groups impaled themselves on the CAP at Moppo.

The ships off the coast of Japan unCAPed also had a pretty high DL. Why didn't more groups fly there, including those who sat on their a**es? It wouldn't have stopped the strategic goal of reinforcing Moppo, but it would have made that move cost a dear price.

quote:


As for the supply issue I guess that's the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles. Again, I believe it is perfectly accurate and historical for AI to move supply around illogical ways because that's just what happened in the war. Getting the right parts to the right bases in a timely matter IRL was HARD and the problem is compounded by the variety of Japanese planes. If you read historical accounts of campaigns and look at the logistical details you find dozens of stories of things like a division receiving an extra 10,000 uniforms but no rain gear then getting drenched by rain for weeks straight because two cargo ships got mixed up. The best way to counteract that was just sending extra of everything which obviously isn't happening when all your supply stockpiles are low.

However, I definitely agree about the Kamis should just skip the experience checks when determining whether or not they will fly missions. Maybe in future patches this can be implemented because it's a lot more accurate.



Like most people on this forum I've read a fair amount about the war. I think anything the Japanese can do at this point in a scenario geared to represent actual capabilities is frosting. That said, it removes the agency of 'playing' the game when you can't set units to behave as they would in a real life situation. Do you really think 500-1000 planes would sit in base while invasions of Korea were ongoing and fleets of retiring Allied ships were sailing past the Home islands?

Your smug comment about 'the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles' is a bit annoying. You've obviously not played this side of the game to the end. Historical would be me sitting and waiting for the last year of game for the Allies to overrun every position on map with no chance to do anything about it. I know that, and yet I'm playing a game that postulates alternate histories every time it's played. In the real war the Allies would also not be fighting still after losing 3-5 CVs, 20+ CVEs and a pretty fair number of assault shipping in the past month. But of course that wouldn't happen if it hadn't been for over-powered Japanese RnD and production. Shall we chase our tail a while longer?

I made several mistakes involving supply, some long term and some short term. Air 'optimization' was a minor pull on the supply use for this Empire, and part of that was by choice. You see, the history of this game is that it's the first real PBEM for both of us. For me it's the first chance to see the effects of the Japanese economy for the whole game. I made a conscious choice to make more airframe types than I should to 'optimize' the economy. I want to see how they work, test them and provide some feedback for others.

Supply issues have much more to do with over-building of defensive positions, airfields and ports and an ignorance of how devastating an Allied strategic air campaign could be in late 44-45. If I had known my supply generation would be cut in half by early 45 I would have played a few things differently.

Anyway, not sure why I feel the need to answer this comment, but maybe it's the two vodka OJ I just had after dinner on a stormy night on the 18th floor here in London tonight. I might just have a scotch now so take care to be a bit less condescending if you reply.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 9:18:41 PM >


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Post #: 3261
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:10:02 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I'll second what Mr. Lemon said.

You managed to actually drive the actions of the Allied forces for the past couple weeks which is no small feet for a late war Japan. Nice job!

In Korea - if you haven't already bought all the AA units out, have you concentrated them in the places you want to defend? I know it isn't the greatest, but every little bit helps.


I had to send some over, but i have a decent amount over the troops in the clear and some at Masan. I also sent some of the big base forces with DP guns, so if he comes in low that will not be a happy moment for 4E crews.

_____________________________

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(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 3262
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:13:22 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

After this we got a sighting of the biggest of the big before the MTB was vaporized. nice that two are burning, which makes me feel like at least those hits are somewhat serious.


I'm not fully up on this, but I thought that the smoke graphic also showed above a certain system damage level (like ">10"). So does that graphic really mean that two are still on fire?


From torp hits I know that system is never as high as float damage. So if the system damage is up over 10 then I'm hoping float and maybe engine damage is also up there. One more of the beasts was hit but is not smoking, so these two are most likely damaged in a real way. Or so I hope!

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 9:13:58 PM >


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Post #: 3263
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:27:34 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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But not damaged enough to split into an escort TF (I don't know the threshhold for that, but it's definitely north of 30, probably north of 40).


As a slight counter to Lemon (and definite counter to some of what I've seen in other threads...), and perhaps perpendicular to what you're saying about working off of DL... Even "clear" things like X number of planes on a strike are muddled and abstracted by the game. Just as in war.

Maybe your pilots flew 120 extra miles because they got lost! Maybe Joc meant to have more or fewer ships around but they didn't make it for who knows what reason. It's war. Crap happens. Look at Savo Island or Pearl Harbor or Yamamoto's assassination or any number of other battles - the Allies could have had ample warning, but for a whole number of reasons (sometimes just one), they didn't, and it made the battle go a certain way. Expecting every unit to follow your orders all the time, or even to attack what you, the player outside the electronic box, thinks is the most attractive target is unrealistic - we aren't playing an RTS. It sucks that you didn't get more swings at the BBs at Moppo, but crap happens. IRL I'm sure some heads would be rolling, or some seppukus committed.

Or Crappens, for short. I think I may have stumbled upon a new forum handle...

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3264
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:42:00 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Do you really think 500-1000 planes would sit in base while invasions of Korea were ongoing and fleets of retiring Allied ships were sailing past the Home islands?

I don't know because that didn't happen IRL. But think of prelude to Midway. The Japanese only had the Shokaku waiting in Japan for repairs and the Zuikaku waiting in Japan for more planes and pilots. As a result neither participated in the battle and IMO this had a decisive impact. Why didn't the Shokaku planes/pilots load up on the Zuikaku and sail with the rest of the carrier fleet? Sometimes things like this just happened. And this is by no means the only example.
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Your smug comment about 'the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles' is a bit annoying. You've obviously not played this side of the game to the end. Historical would be me sitting and waiting for the last year of game for the Allies to overrun every position on map with no chance to do anything about it.

You are making inferences of things I never implied. I never implied that you were doing this the wrong way. Rather I my point was that there is a trade off involved in when trying to use as much supply for other aspects. I mentioned aircraft explicitly but as you have inferred I am not a JFB and I'm not really that aware how the supply usage breaks down (I didn't realize that fort building was a greater investment but that's not really the point). I have made these sorts of optimizations in other games as well tying to keep supply levels at the very minimum in order to boost other aspects of the economy. My main point is that there is an inherent tradeoff with supply levels and the economy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I know that, and yet I'm playing a game that postulates alternate histories every time it's played.

I am not arguing for historical outcomes, only historical mechanics. A game which has historical and accurate mechanics but allows for an infinite number of ahistoric outcomes is the pinnacle of strategy warfare games. This game is close but not perfect - I just think its' a bit closer than you give it credit.

Anyway I hope you read this post and reread my first post and realize I am not trying to be hostile or critical. I am merely saying that I think the game mechanics which tend to frustrate people in fact a bit more accurate than people realize.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3265
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:43:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

But not damaged enough to split into an escort TF (I don't know the threshhold for that, but it's definitely north of 30, probably north of 40).


As a slight counter to Lemon (and definite counter to some of what I've seen in other threads...), and perhaps perpendicular to what you're saying about working off of DL... Even "clear" things like X number of planes on a strike are muddled and abstracted by the game. Just as in war.

Maybe your pilots flew 120 extra miles because they got lost! Maybe Joc meant to have more or fewer ships around but they didn't make it for who knows what reason. It's war. Crap happens. Look at Savo Island or Pearl Harbor or Yamamoto's assassination or any number of other battles - the Allies could have had ample warning, but for a whole number of reasons (sometimes just one), they didn't, and it made the battle go a certain way. Expecting every unit to follow your orders all the time, or even to attack what you, the player outside the electronic box, thinks is the most attractive target is unrealistic - we aren't playing an RTS. It sucks that you didn't get more swings at the BBs at Moppo, but crap happens. IRL I'm sure some heads would be rolling, or some seppukus committed.

Or Crappens, for short. I think I may have stumbled upon a new forum handle...


Up to a point the laisee faire, lets just go with how the game decides things is fine. At some point though we're all playing this to see how we would do as a commander. That includes the muddle of FOW of course, and bungled ops, lost supplies and interdicted LOCs.

Still, to get the feeling we can do something in this game it's always better when there is some ability to at least understand why something happened, for better or worse. The frustrating bit is that we never do, and I know also war is like that. But this is not war, it's a war game, which is supposed to help us understand military situations and be able to assess our successes and failures objectively. We can't do that if we don't know WTF is going on?


< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2014 9:45:01 PM >


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Post #: 3266
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/12/2014 8:53:34 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Anyway I hope you read this post and reread my first post and realize I am not trying to be hostile or critical. I am merely saying that I think the game mechanics which tend to frustrate people in fact a bit more accurate than people realize.



Okay. I love this game. I think it's a great way to understand 90% of what was going on in the war. Still, that 10% is getting in the way of seeing it really perform like a test of the ability to play through the possible outcomes of this conflict in game.

If this game was accurate there would be no Japanese players. Period.

Since we all agree it's better to have a game than complete accuracy I think having more ability to affect outcomes with something like air strike settings would be a good thing. It doesn't exist in this game, it won't probably ever, but that would be good if it did. i think that would be actually more accurate in this case, because if there were Allied fleets near the HI landing troops the Japanese would not have been as restrained as I've tried to be holding back some section of the air force for the future. It would be oil drums in thousands of biplanes on one way missions.

_____________________________

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Post #: 3267
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/13/2014 7:33:35 AM   
obvert


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The next turn opens with, yes, more minesweeping at Shimoneseki. Are these some kind of experimental self-multipling mine?

Lost another AMc. Maybe they shouldn't sweep the mines at night.




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Post #: 3268
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/13/2014 7:35:34 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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I know I've forgotten something when I start to see Peggy (T) search messages on the Allied fleet. Oh, uh, I guess they're flying today ...




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3269
RE: Wild Sheep Chase - 2/13/2014 7:38:55 AM   
obvert


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I sent out the Kashi and a few small escorts to see if they could get to damaged transports, but no luck there. The Allied CVs sent in strikes right to Nagasaki (a dangerously aggressive range for them to be set) but lucky for them I flew the majority of the low CAP out to change-up airframes and rest.




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3270
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