Please explain

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Please explain

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Please explain

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Please explain - 11/17/2011 12:10:09 PM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

Do task forces have to pass some sort of check to disband into port, even when controlling for correct orders, distance traveled, ops points, no reueling, etc. Is it dependent on the size of the port? I have had a number of situations where naval forces had moves of one or two hexes (in the night pulse to get to the destination) where TF speed was 7 or greater, and they either did not disband, or they stayed in TF until after a full round of air attacks.

Just understanding this aspect of the rules would really help me.

_____________________________

Andy M

Post #: 1

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 12:22:15 PM

CT Grognard

Posts: 694
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline

Could be a number of things.

The TF could have run out of operations points, or, more likely, the port docking limit was exceeded?

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 2

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 12:38:47 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

But "disbanding" is NOT docking, it is anchoring or such moves along those lines. The only thing I can think of in relation to reality (but maybe not the game) is the simple fact of space. Very few places could "house" a large fleet. Maybe port POTENTIAL size is a factor, not sure. But that would make sense.

(in reply to CT Grognard)

Post #: 3

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 1:29:41 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

I have also seen this and it seems to be a random bug to me.

I can set a TF to travel to a port and auto disband. 99% of the time it will, but there absolutely are occurrences when it doesn't. I can go back to the previous turn save and confirm the orders. If I re-do the turn, it will disband, so it is not a repeatable error.

Very hard to debug this type of issue.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 4

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 1:45:52 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

1. No limits apply to "disbanding" into a port. That is anchoring.

2. For the purposes of displaying the ships anchored, there is a limit on the number of ships anchored; originally 1000 ships, subsequently increased to 1300.

3. There are most definitely limits applicable to "docked" TFs and the activities they can undertake but that is not the situation described by the OP.

4. A TF will only automatically disband at its home port if it has its toggle switched to disband.

5. There is no automatic disbanding at the destination port.

6. The sequence of play outlined on pages 31-33 of the manual clearly shows that air operations occur well before TF adjustment occurs. TFs on auto disband only do so during the TF adjustment pulse.

7. Air units with "port attack" as their mission will target the port's facilities and there is a 50% chance they will also target ships disbanded. NB that when the number of disbanded ships is less than 10 the chances of the port strike targetting the disbanded ships is further reduced proportionally to the number of ships present. This air mission does not target TFs either "docked" or at sea within the area of the port hex.

8. Air units with "naval attack" as their mission will target TFs either "docked" or at sea within the area of the port hex. They do not target disbanded ships.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 5

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 2:11:24 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Very, very rarely something weird happens with a TF where it will not do certain things. When that happens, the problem, in my experience, will not fix itself with turn resolution (or even multiple turns). The fix is to create a new TF of the same type and pull all of the same ships directly in upon creation.

Mind you I am not talking about when certain limits are reached. For example, ops points apply per ship and when they are expended for a turn, that's it. And although they are not displayed, there are also limits on what a port can do such as how much refueling, cargo handling, etc. None of the limits the game has can be circumvented by creating a new TF, only 'stuck TFs' can be 'unstuck'.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 6

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 5:07:32 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Do task forces have to pass some sort of check to disband into port, even when controlling for correct orders, distance traveled, ops points, no reueling, etc. Is it dependent on the size of the port? I have had a number of situations where naval forces had moves of one or two hexes (in the night pulse to get to the destination) where TF speed was 7 or greater, and they either did not disband, or they stayed in TF until after a full round of air attacks.

Just understanding this aspect of the rules would really help me.

One possibility is fire. Ships on fire won't disband until the fires are out.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 7

RE: Please explain - 11/17/2011 6:36:32 PM

Patbgaming

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

I believe the disbanding happens at the end of the turn ( in the turn sequence ), after all the air and naval moves and combat have occurred. That is the only time I have seen the disbanding TF message flash up on my screen anyway.

_____________________________

I can show you and I can teach you but I just can't learn for you. - Nameless NCO US Army

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 8

RE: Please explain - 11/18/2011 12:13:05 PM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

Thanks to all. I was hoping I was doing something wrong, out of sequence, or foregtting something.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to Patbgaming)

Post #: 9

RE: Please explain - 11/18/2011 3:55:33 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

Alfred as the walking dictionary of WITPAE, when a ship/TF is docked (thus not disbanded into the anchorage), can it be hit by torpedoes? I think I read a restriction here along those lines. Also in terms of AA fire on port attacks, don't docked ships contribute but at 50% or is that anchored ships. So many variables so little time. Thanks, Hal

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 10

RE: Please explain - 11/18/2011 5:04:14 PM

dorjun driver

Posts: 641
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Alfred as the walking dictionary of WITPAE...

You know, if Alfred and michaelm ever got together in the same room, it would probably mean the end of the universe as we know it.

In a good way.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

x - ARPAnaut
x - ACM
x - AES
Current - Bum

The paths of glory may lead you to the grave, but the paths of duty may not get you anywhere.
JT

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 11

RE: Please explain - 11/18/2011 7:09:29 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Alfred as the walking dictionary of WITPAE, when a ship/TF is docked (thus not disbanded into the anchorage), can it be hit by torpedoes? I think I read a restriction here along those lines. Also in terms of AA fire on port attacks, don't docked ships contribute but at 50% or is that anchored ships. So many variables so little time. Thanks, Hal

1. A TF is a TF (except when we are talking about submarine TFs). It is irrelevant whether the TF is out at sea 400nm from land, or is at sea within 40nm of a port (aka in the same hex as the port), or is docked at the port.

2. A TF is targetted by an air unit with "Naval Attack" as its offensive mission. As such the normal criteria for aircraft to fly with torpedoes as their ordnance apply.

3. Ships which are anchored are much less likely to be "visited" by torpedo carrying planes. This is because:

(a) from the air, anchored ships can only be targetted by air units with "Port Attack" as their mission, and that mission does not always target anchored ships,

(b) there is only a small percentage chance that torpedoes will be carried by torpedo bombers, the assumption being that the anchored ships are protected by torpedo nets, are in drydock etc.

However don't breathe too easily at the escape from facing torpedoes. Very large bombs instead (aka 800kg AP by the Japanese) may be dropped. This depends on group experience, die rolls and how many first born have been sacrificed.

4. Aircraft attacking a port run the gauntlet of AA fire from both land installations and docked TFs. Unable to confirm that the TF AA fire contribution is only 50%. A dev (Nikademus) confirmed quite some time ago that port attack was SAIEW and I do recall classical WITP had something about the 50% contribution but whether that was a myth in classical WITP or confirmed by the devs back then I can't recall. Furthermore michaelm has tweaked AE port flak (land installation and docked TF) in the beta. I haven't tracked down the exact tweaked change.

5. Aircraft attacking a docked TF run the gauntlet of AA fire only from the anti-aircraft guns of the TF.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 12