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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 8:54:36 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Yeah, I expect a huge Allied invasion at Adak eventually. That's why I want to kill off the visitors now. Killing them off would mean that much more they would have to bring to the party. I'm hoping 2 divisions and a garrison unit (if I use it in the attack) plus a bunch of artillery could kill off the Americans if they're out of supply.

I just had a thought. Can I resupply a bombardment TF at Adak with enemy troops there?

Never knew that about Ramree Island. Good to know. Glad I'm building up the forts.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 10:10:04 PM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		Yes, as long as you own the base.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 10:16:14 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		That's great news, Pax. Not sure what size ship I'll be able to reload there, but I can keep a steady naval bombardment going to accelerate the destruction of his supply.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 10:30:11 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		It is why I build Adak up to Port 7 ... even though I know I eventually will lose it, I know it helps me keep it. And the allies can build it up with their Seabees in about 2 days anyway, so it isn't like it will accelerate their progress much.

At Port=7 and a naval HQ or 2, Yamato and her sisters can rearm ...

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Pax

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 10:36:20 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not sure I could have done that though.....and still get the forts to level 6 like I did for a time.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 11:37:32 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah, it means I have to commit another couple scare ENG units to ADAK for 90 days early in the war ... SCARCE resource those ... but holding Adak deep into '43 is a nice tactic ... buys time to get the Northern defenses into shape.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/15/2017 11:53:25 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I'm beginning to think it may be worth it. I got lucky here (so far). I put a lot of engineer assets into the Marianas. All four of those islands are at level 6 on their way to 7, where I'll stop.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 12:05:39 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
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Status: offline 		Trade-offs .. if the allied player is alert and sees you building Adak strong, then he know somewhere else ain't as strong ... ENG assets are scare commodity for IJ ...

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Pax

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 12:11:05 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		one of the things you likely missed during your sabbatical ... supply is generally the Achilles heal for IJ players. Not you maybe, but a lot of IJ players overbuild their air force early in the war. They spend too much supply on air missions (+10,000/day in 42/43) which means in 44/45 they run out of supply big time.

In any case, missions ... total missions are one of the key indicators that I now use to monitor supply usage. More than fort building for sure, and right there with factory building, but more insidious as most players fail to monitor that ...

Anyway, food for thought.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 12:45:20 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Ted's never played the Japanese. I believe he opened it once or twice, broke into a cold sweat, and shut it down immediately.

Interesting thought on tracking the number of missions flown. I haven't looked at that at all. Now you piqued my interest. Gotta check out the average number of missions flown. By the way, I a few days away from a third of the way through the game.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 12:46:49 AM   
PaxMondo


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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 1:08:57 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Adak a size 7....wow.

I personally don't like running the Yamoto up there in winter as they accumulate a lot of damage, and it is very early in the war. Like to save the big girls for Kuriles/HI. Better yet, don't build the girls. Their loss really invigorates AFBs. And the damage takes forever to repair.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 1:12:26 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Here are the air sortie numbers:

It's day 528.

Sorties today: 5715

Total # sorties: 2,432,751

Average # sorties per day: 4607

I have nothing to compare it to, so I have no idea how well I'm doing.

Note that I have 3,737,061 supply on map not counting on ships. It's down 90k from 1 May. I've been doing a fair bit of airframe and engine expansion though. Most of it will be complete by month's end.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 1:17:11 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Something else I've been pondering lately...

My fleet is in pretty good shape. I've lost the Hiryu, 2 CAs (Aobas) and probably less than 20 DDs. I don't have the count handy. I'm considering being more aggressive with my ships. His fleet strength is only going to get worse. I don't want to sacrifice the ships to no gain, but if they can tear into a small surface fleet or, better yet, a loaded invasion fleet, that might not be such a bad way to go. What do you guys think? Cause damage risking the fleet or keep a fleet in being?

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 1:24:13 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Adak a size 7....wow.

I personally don't like running the Yamoto up there in winter as they accumulate a lot of damage, and it is very early in the war. Like to save the big girls for Kuriles/HI. Better yet, don't build the girls. Their loss really invigorates AFBs. And the damage takes forever to repair.


I agree, size 7 is a lot of effort and time.

For surface combats, I like to one up my opponent: My CLs against their DDs, my CAs against their CLs, my BBs against their CAs. Always DDs escorting, but only ~4. Against their BBs? My TBs.

Edit: Also note that the bombardment of Adak was the first time Yamato and Musashi fired their guns in anger.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 3:47:50 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Here are the air sortie numbers:

It's day 528.

Sorties today: 5715

Total # sorties: 2,432,751

Average # sorties per day: 4607

I have nothing to compare it to, so I have no idea how well I'm doing.

Note that I have 3,737,061 supply on map not counting on ships. It's down 90k from 1 May. I've been doing a fair bit of airframe and engine expansion though. Most of it will be complete by month's end.

So 5700 sorties means you used about 8000 supply for your air missions. You know you are making ~28000 day now, so ...
The supply estimate can be improved dramatically if you have a feel for how many bomb missions compared to CAP. As you can see, air missions are a major expenditure.
10,000 missions/day means something like +15,000 supply/day ... you won't be saving hardly anything and then comes '44 you run outta supply and WHAM! you're dead.

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Post #: 2806
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 3:50:55 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Adak a size 7....wow.

I personally don't like running the Yamoto up there in winter as they accumulate a lot of damage, and it is very early in the war. Like to save the big girls for Kuriles/HI. Better yet, don't build the girls. Their loss really invigorates AFBs. And the damage takes forever to repair.
True, they can. And yes, NOT building them is an option. Against AI though, they can be effective. For repair, I increase the size of one RSY ... helps a great deal with repairs times on capital ships.



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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 3:55:23 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Here are the air sortie numbers:

It's day 528.

Sorties today: 5715

Total # sorties: 2,432,751

Average # sorties per day: 4607

I have nothing to compare it to, so I have no idea how well I'm doing.

Note that I have 3,737,061 supply on map not counting on ships. It's down 90k from 1 May. I've been doing a fair bit of airframe and engine expansion though. Most of it will be complete by month's end.

BTW, I have not altered the targets you and I came to several years ago. You're spot on target for mid-43, no surprise. You don't overbuild air frames, and anything less than 6000 missions/day is within the guidelines I use until mid-44 against STOCK games.
Where I came to start really looking at this was because in Ironman Nasty, Nasty, the allied AI is throwing up +15,000 missions a day starting Dec 8. IJ cannot keep up with that, she will be outta supply, so I have had to develop strategies to counter. And one of them is to watch and allocate missions carefully. The trickle down effect is that it also means I watch aircraft builds very carefully and of course supply.


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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 4:07:17 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Losing the fleet in 1943 would not be a wise course of action.  However, sustaining some ship losses to destroy an Allied invasion fleet can be a very good outcome.  See the impact Lowpe's destruction of the Midway invasion fleet had on his Allied opponent's plans.  Went a long way to achieving the circumstances which led to his withdrawal from the match.

Re airplane sortie consumption, page 252 of the manual provides the details.  Essentially supply consumption per sortie is:

  • 1 for non level bombers flying an offensive mission
  • level bombers flying an offensive mission expend (maximum load/1000)
  • 1 for escort mission
  • 1/3 for all other missions

Alfred

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 10:33:34 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Warships:

Japan: KB and Company get 8 to 10 of my best AA DDs, Kongos split up among them, and maybe 2 to 4 CA/CL. Where possible, 6 to 8 DDs (torpedo heavy) with 2 to 4 CL/CA. And then some 4 to 6 DD TF. Willing to use Full Speed movement with low moonlight throughout the war to have as much night combat as possible.

Allies: Old pre-war CAs and DDs go into DS (Death Star). 2 to 4 Cleveland CLs with 8 Fletcher DDs in SC TF to take on anything but a BB based TF. With the speed of Fletchers, I use them at Full Speed to go 11 hexes into night battle and be back under LRCAP by morning. If I'm Ted, I'm playing chess with me up two pawns. Attrition and more attrition.

Pilot Pools: Since I'm less than a week behind you (43 May 16th), what are your pools of trained pilots looking like?

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Post #: 2810
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 10:48:56 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Guys, thanks for the info on sorties. Currently, I'm using only Sallys and Helens on bombing missions, usually <150 a day. That should drop by half soon with the winding down the the bombing in Burma during the monsoon season. I don't want to eat up all the available supply out at the airfields.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:04:49 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Michael, KB is similar with me, including the Kongos, Tone & Chikuma, a CL and the best AA DDs available. My surface fleets are as needed. I keep fleets available primarily at Truk and Singapore (used to be Davao too). So overall, pretty similar to you.

Here's my pilot pool:

IJA Total: 1850
F: 368
B: 1289
T: 71
R: 122

IJN Total: 1025
F: 255
B: 490
P: 226
T: 27
R: 27

IJA Pool: 312
IJN Pool: 1358

IJA TRACOM: 120
IJN TRACOM: 146

I keep extra pilots in many of my units, practically all the fighter and bomber units so the numbers are actually a little better. I occasionally cull a few 60+/75+ fighter pilots from frontline land based units and replace them with 50+/70+ out of the pool. KB has primarily 70+/70+ pilots. I pull all elite pilots from all but my fighter units. For fighters, training units have 1 elite pilot, land based have 2-3 and KB has 4-6.

Edit: I have a lot of data and can give you my pool numbers from your date if you want.

Another Edit: They're practically identical.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/16/2017 11:07:29 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:19:53 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		FP groups: Do you allow and did you re-size many of your FP groups to size 12 or 24? I did, so my IJN fighter pools are being feed mainly from these groups. Over 500 Rufe/Rex pilots training up.

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Post #: 2813
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:28:02 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Ahh, that's a big difference. The vast majority of my FP groups are at 24 and doing Naval Search/ASW duty against subs along the SLOC to the SRA and other critical choke points. I train them in both and then put the unit at 40% NS, 40% ASW and 20% rest.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:29:02 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

FP groups: Do you allow and did you re-size many of your FP groups to size 12 or 24? I did, so my IJN fighter pools are being feed mainly from these groups. Over 500 Rufe/Rex pilots training up.


Wait, you have 500 Float Fighters?

How do your FP groups upgrade to Rufe/Rex? There are only a few units in stock that will do this.


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Post #: 2815
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:35:02 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		A size 24 float plane unit can train 32 pilots at a time (and can be increased from that as well), so it probably isn't as many units as you think.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:37:31 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Erik, I'm playing BTS lite mod!! Used Editor to make FP groups able to stay with normal Jakes or some able to go to Rufe/Rex. Most of the 2nd FP groups on CA/BBs were enabled.

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Post #: 2817
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:38:18 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Very sneaky.

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Post #: 2818
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:42:12 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Erik, I'm playing BTS lite mod!! Used Editor to make FP groups able to stay with normal Jakes or some able to go to Rufe/Rex. Most of the 2nd FP groups on CA/BBs were enabled.


That is crazy. Can the Allies build the FP Wildcat they prototyped to sue in this mod? Seems like the only way to equalise this kind of massive change. I see that as being as big as allowing Japan to have 4E bombers.

The WildcatFish!!!

F4F-3S






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< Message edited by obvert -- 11/16/2017 11:48:11 AM >

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Post #: 2819
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/16/2017 11:44:33 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		To have players who have NOT downloaded or are playing BTS or BTS Lite mod, the Allies have dedicated training groups - three USA Army, two Marine, three USN, and one Brit group that are just doing this. So, these mods are not a JFB dream set up. Many of the issues from RA which show up in Canoerebel vs John 3rd AARs, have been corrected. IMO, the current versions should be balanced, but possibly more bloody.

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