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Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:42:43 PM   
Locarnus


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline 		Why do AI empires refuse to ente a Free Trade Agreement with me?

I m humanoid, thy are insect for example, or haakonish or wekkarus or whatever. We share trade with each other (eg 3/4 of their trade are with me), we have positive relations (eg +20 or better), I have an ultra rare ressource and am willing to trade it with them.
They still refusing to enter an FTA with me, which would give them quite a boost.

Thats plain stupid of the AI...

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:45:39 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		It is roleplaying A.I.

If you want generic A.I's you can mod the races text and make them all the same if you want.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 12/1/2011 10:47:54 PM >

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:50:14 PM   
RooksBailey


Posts: 80
Joined: 11/21/2009
Status: offline 		I've had the same problem.  Good relationship, good trade, but the AI won't agree to a FTA on my urging, but it WILL offer the same treaty back to me at some point.  In fact, a campaign back or so, I offered a FTA and the AI refused.  Then a second later, it offered the same treaty to me!  

Seems a bit quirky. 


< Message edited by RooksBailey -- 12/1/2011 10:52:09 PM >

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:52:23 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RooksBailey

I've had the same problem.  Good relationship, good trade, but the AI won't agree to a FTA on my urging, but it WILL counter-offer the same treaty back to me.  In fact, a campaign back or so, I offered a FTA and the AI refused.  Then a second later, it offered the same treaty to me!  

Seems a bit quirky. 



No as I said it is roleplaying the race type.You can change it all pretty easy.

Dhayut
'Friendliness: friendliness level (normal = 100). This factor influences likelihood of forming treaties with other empires and general interaction with other empires
Friendliness ;65


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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:53:51 PM   
RooksBailey


Posts: 80
Joined: 11/21/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah, but that doesn't seem to explain why it would refuse my offer of a FTA but a literal second later it offers me the same treaty.  

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:54:06 PM   
Locarnus


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline 		How is that roleplaying?

Is it hardcoded that they will never enter a fta with me, or do I just have to bribe them into oblivion for it to happen?

edit: Or rephrased, how does the "65 friendliness" work?

< Message edited by Locarnus -- 12/1/2011 10:55:08 PM >

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:58:17 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RooksBailey

Yeah, but that doesn't seem to explain why it would refuse my offer of a FTA but a literal second later it offers me the same treaty.  


Maybe it had flagged 'treaty on table' when you offered even though the box hadn't popped up yet.

Or maybe there is a potential bonus (for diplomatic characters) for the empire offering the treaty.

Or...

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 10:58:59 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus

How is that roleplaying?

Is it hardcoded that they will never enter a fta with me, or do I just have to bribe them into oblivion for it to happen?

edit: Or rephrased, how does the "65 friendliness" work?


If you want easy treatys like you get with the atuuk it would be

'Friendliness: friendliness level (normal = 100). This factor influences likelihood of forming treaties with other empires and general interaction with other empires
Friendliness ;138

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/1/2011 11:15:07 PM   
Canute0

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline 		+20 relationship isn't allways enough for a Free trade, try to get a bit more and the AI will offer the free trade to you.


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Post #: 9
RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 12:44:16 AM   
Gelatinous Cube


Posts: 696
Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline 		It's never impossible to get agreements with the AI, but sometimes you have to work harder for it than you normally would in a 4x game. Which i find quite refreshing.

For example, I started a game as the Gizureans on a small-ish map, and wound up sharing a cluster with the Zenox. They didn't even ask questions, they just declared war "We naturally dislike you -19"

Of course, I took their only fresh colony, and blew up all their ships, and forced them into subjegation and slavery. I met a Zenox empire later in the game who also attacked me on sight, because by then I had a pretty significant slavery relations penalty.

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 12:58:09 AM   
Keston


Posts: 300
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

Or maybe there is a potential bonus (for diplomatic characters) for the empire offering the treaty.


In diplomacy who gets the credit and political positioning issues are important (in other social contexts as well), though one would expect the other side to at least wait a week or so before proposing THEIR new idea.


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Post #: 11
RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 2:20:40 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		In Legends I seem to recall a new feature being that diplomacy is planned ahead by the AI.  If its an untrusty race, maybe it won't sign a treaty with you because that would boost your economy, and ultimately it plans to stab you in the back.

Edit: But more likely +20 isn't enough for an unfriendly race to sign.

quote:

Thats plain stupid of the AI...


Actually not signing treaty with everyone who asks is not stupid. It would be more intelligent to to sign treaties with those who are no threat and no competition to you. Signing treaties with the other superpowers may benefit your economy, but it might benefit theirs more, especially if they have a rare resource.

The ideal situation would be to find which of the other superpowers who might challenge you for victory is having a spot of bother with another superpower, refuse to trade with them but trade with their rival. You've isolated their economy, now if war breaks out between the two its time to strike. Of course the AI doesn't think like this, but my point is its only beneficial to sign a treaty with someone who:
a) isn't a threat or rival, (I'm not talking about your relationship, but their relative power compared to yours)
b) won't benefit more from the treaty than you

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 12/2/2011 2:42:55 AM >

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 6:55:41 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		I've actually had AI empire suggest MDP with about +20 relationship. AIs tendency for treaties varies more in Legends and honestly makes much more sense most of the time.
It was way too easy to spam FTAs and MDPs pre legends if you knew what you were doing. I personally like it how it is now.


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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 4:41:38 PM   
MasterChief


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: The Hundred Fathom Curve
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: J HG T

I've actually had AI empire suggest MDP with about +20 relationship. AIs tendency for treaties varies more in Legends and honestly makes much more sense most of the time.
It was way too easy to spam FTAs and MDPs pre legends if you knew what you were doing. I personally like it how it is now.



Agree... seems more realistic to me. EXCEPT... I am puzzled when my neighbor, who I have a FTA with, refuses a MDP with me even though they are getting thier butts kicked in a war.

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Post #: 14
RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 4:42:21 PM   
Locarnus


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline 		I m at 55+ relations now, still they refuse the fta...

Their homeworld got hit by disasters, they should take any help/income they get, if they were halfway intelligent...
Considering my trade with them was 400k+ and they have an ultra rare as well as me, that would bring their income back...

Its like "No, we will rather die of starvation than to have a mutually benefitial treaty with you, because we dont like you". A race that stupid would be extinct before it travels to the stars...

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RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 4:47:40 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		I am happy that you cannot manipulate the whole galaxy to your agenda with ease like you could in DW pre Legends.

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Post #: 16
RE: Free Trade Agreement - 12/2/2011 5:04:49 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Locarnus,

If you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to upload a save file for us and we'll investigate.

Regards,

- Erik

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