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Reality check for all us JFBs

 
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Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 5:31:03 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE
Post #: 1
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 5:47:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Because we JFB are FAAAAAR cooler then the real life Japanese!

BANZAI!



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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 2
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:00:32 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Because the IJN used inferior tactics in real life and JFBs work the game instead.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 3
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:09:00 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		main thing is that JFB can produce about 5x the number of aircraft as they did IRL






Attachment (1)

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 4
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:10:45 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		I would tend to think the opposite: all players are not nearly as risk averse with their assets as historically was the case.

Nimitz was extremely methodical and careful in everything he did with the exception of Guadacanal. That was a shoestring and a close call. After that though, minimal risk for maximum gain was the watch word.

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Pax

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 5
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:12:55 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		B-24 .. as far as you can see




Attachment (1)

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 6
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:16:12 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		I see its the one at the back thats finished - LOL

Impressive...

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Post #: 7
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:36:52 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		If we can just get MichaelM to 'enhance' the code to get hindsight removed.

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Post #: 8
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:39:45 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

B-24 .. as far as you can see





THIS is why we JFBs have no hope NO MATTER WHAT!



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(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 9
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 6:59:53 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		quality has a quantity all its own




could have put more armor and torpedoes, instead of the fuel

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< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 12/23/2011 7:14:28 PM >

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 10
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 7:12:07 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		speed






(japan had 3 of these since 1940)
(didn't produce, not maneouverable enough )


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 12/23/2011 7:13:59 PM >

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 11
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 7:16:06 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		climb rate




needs a Mitsubishi Kasei, some 20mm cannons

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 12/23/2011 7:18:49 PM >

_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 12
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 7:19:40 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		maneouverability





reduce the fuel, reduce the armament to 2x20mm on the nose
now the A6M2 flies 350mph with 94kg/m2 wing loading

hit me if you can..

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 12/23/2011 7:23:23 PM >

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 13
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 9:34:05 PM   
GenChaos33


Posts: 360
Joined: 9/28/2000
Status: offline 		Hey!!! Lets not forget about the 52 SS. Don't make me mad!!!! Never forget....

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Post #: 14
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 9:36:03 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....

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I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

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Post #: 15
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 9:49:54 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		did you omit the losses at pearl?
that is an amazing feature..
what about brit and dutch losses?

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 16
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 10:14:42 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

did you omit the losses at pearl?

Don't think so. These were US Navy losses, not Allied losses. I think that the Oklahoma and the Arizona were the only to USN BBs lost during the war.

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Post #: 17
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 11:22:12 PM   
Gridley380


Posts: 464
Joined: 12/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE


And don't forget: all four of the CVs, both BBs, 5 CA, both CLAAs, and a bunch of the DD were lost in 1941/1942.

Post-1942 the USN in ALL theaters lost:

1 CVL
6 CVE
2 CA
1 CL
45 DD
15 DE
44 SS

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 18
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 11:46:43 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Hey!!! Lets not forget about the 52 SS.


A lost ship and crew is bad no matter how but if you omit the losses to the hazards of the sea such as running aground and fires at sea and incidences of friendly fire the Japanese only get to claim 40 or so subs.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 19
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 11:53:02 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		I-19 sank the wasp
I-168 sank the yorktown

japanese submarines saved the IJN from total humiliation in 1942

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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 20
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/23/2011 11:53:04 PM   
sdevault


Posts: 143
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline 		The book Blood on the Sea tells the story of all DD's lost.
"Seventy-one American destroyers were lost during WWII, 60 of them in confrontations with enemy ships, planes, shore batteries and mines, the other 11 to accidental groundings, friendly mines or severe storms."

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 21
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 3:16:30 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gridley380


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE


And don't forget: all four of the CVs, both BBs, 5 CA, both CLAAs, and a bunch of the DD were lost in 1941/1942.

Post-1942 the USN in ALL theaters lost:

1 CVL
6 CVE
2 CA
1 CL
45 DD
15 DE
44 SS

Wow. Very interesting...

_____________________________


(in reply to Gridley380)
Post #: 22
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 3:41:46 AM   
Bliztk


Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline 		Hindsight is 20/20. Also we both JFB and AFB operate with 1950 tactics, not with unproved 1935 tactics.

Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too


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Post #: 23
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 3:54:41 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



Absolutely spot on.

I am constantly shrugging my head at all the players who insist on "realistic" play, "realistic" game code etc and then their play bears no resemblance to real world factors, of which the writing of 1500 letters to mothers fully captures what is "reality" in life.

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred

(in reply to Bliztk)
Post #: 24
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 4:31:37 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred

Alfred my friend, if there were ever a sentence written on this forum more deserving of a sig line I haven't seen it. Superb & Have a great holiday!!


< Message edited by SuluSea -- 12/24/2011 4:33:47 AM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 2:38:29 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



***

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred


Even Percival?

Even my military training tells me that allowing troops to dig in does not demoralize them...


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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 26
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 2:58:26 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....


Only a few os us get that (Chickenboy?). I think I have seen two in 22 yeasr of practice

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

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Post #: 27
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 3:15:57 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



***

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred


Even Percival?

Even my military training tells me that allowing troops to dig in does not demoralize them...



Yes, even Percival.

Percival served as a scapegoat for the British army's institutional military deficiencies. He received the blame for the many mistakes made by both his subordinates and superiors. There was not a single British general in December 1941 who would have performed better than Percival did.

1. Operation "Matador" was the only realistic chance the British had in December 1941 to significantly delay the Japanese. That it was not put into operation was entirely the fault of Percival's superiors.

2. Percival did not prevent the troops from digging in. British troops did dig in but their flanks were always left open becuase there simply were not enough troops present in Malaya. Again not Percival's fault as he had already identified in his first tour of duty in Malaya the great shortage of infantry.

3. It was not Percival's decision to organise his forces into penny packets. His orders were to defend the airfields. He was thus left in a completely invidious position, forced to defend what could not be defended with inadequate forces. It wasn't percival who had decided to build and position the airfields in such vulnerable positions in the first place.

4. Percival was not authorised to expend more than 500 pounds. Just how much fortification do you think 500 pounds builds you?

5. The governor of Malaya insisted, and had the authority to impose his decision on Percival, to maximise the export of rubber and tin at the expense of any military preparation to oppose the Japanese. Thus percival found himself lacking both the funds and the civilian labour to build defences.

I'll leave it at that for to continue to explain the difficulties Percival laboured under would completely hijack this thread.

Alfred

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 28
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 3:23:58 PM   
sdevault


Posts: 143
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline 		Most of the early commanders were caught in a no win scenario. Antiquated equipment, limited equipment and troops, and governments unwilling to establish an effective war policy until it was too late.

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Post #: 29
RE: Reality check for all us JFBs - 12/24/2011 4:15:15 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....


Only a few os us get that (Chickenboy?). I think I have seen two in 22 yeasr of practice


I got it. I was thinking of something more agricultural, such as a fertile freemartin or pseudohermaphrodite or friendly chow.

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Post #: 30
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