RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/9/2012 11:48:08 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well the obvious question that I did not see asked here was how many ships are you operating in that theater? This is important. If you have all your old BBs in Noumea or OZ along with your carriers then you can expect severe fuel shortages in early to mid 42. There is nothing unusual or unreasonable about this. In my campaigns as the Allies I made that initial mistake. The old BBs especially sucked all the fuel out of the area. Send them back to Pearl until you build up the bases, fuel depots, and get enough tankers to support them.

Leave your old BBs stateside, use your carriers sparingly and you will do OK. I had a general shortage in OZ for the first six months of the war that gradually improved with time. After that, it has never been a problem.

Makes great sense. Also as LST mentioned above creating a refueling waypoint mid trip betwen WC and Oz is a great help. I do this as well for any carrier ops in the southpac and SWPac areas. Most mid ocean ports are too small during the first 6 months to handle the fuel capacity necessary and too small to allow the large carrier TFs to dock and refuel. Stationing AOs as refueling depots seems to be the best way to go in the first 6 months of the campaign.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/9/2012 11:11:05 PM

NAVMAN

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Hi All:
crsutton does raise a point which I had not considered regarding the number of ships and their effect on fuel.
As of 8/4/42 this is where the bulk of my ships are based;
Brisbane: 1 BB(Prince of Wales), 5 CA, 5 DD, 54 AP/AK, 11 AO, 10 DM, 6 AU, 5 AV.
Sydney: 1 CA, 1 DD, 152 AP/AK, 14 AO, 14 DM, 2 AU.
There are some minor units at Darwin, Melbourne, etc.
The bulk of my units are at PH and west coast.

Re: the use of old BBs, I use them as escorts for high value troop convoys to Oz and SOPAC as proof against raiders. Also, I use them along the Midway, Johnston, Canton,
Baker axis and they have had success in countering landing attempts.

My attemps to bring in fuel from Aden to Oz has not worked out as I have lost tankers
to hi sys damage.

Upon reflection, jmalter is probably right and I'll refrain going into tarawa till '43.
I'll also make more use of xAKs/AKs as fuel transports, something I have not done, as well
as setting convoys to don't refuel, something I was not doing.

The comments/suggestions have been of great help/interest.

BTW, can allied bomber/fighter sdquads be combined into one unit for sea transport?

Thx all.

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Post #: 32

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/10/2012 12:40:35 AM

Historiker

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I never had any problems.
Always had CS-Convoys running from Aden to the West Coast and from the West Coast to Eastern Australia, though.

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Post #: 33

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/10/2012 12:47:34 AM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NAVMAN

BTW, can allied bomber/fighter sdquads be combined into one unit for sea transport?

Alas, no.

(But if someone has figured out how to do so, please enlighten me/us!)

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Post #: 34

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/11/2012 11:44:11 AM

moonraker65

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I have found the best way to keep Fuel moving to Australia is a relay from Abadan to Colombo to Cape Town then onwards to Adelaide in 3 or 4 CS TK Convoys. That seems to bring enough in for industry and keep the bigger ports like Sydney topped up enough for most op's. Once the sealanes are clear of Japanese Air between Pearl and Noumea or Lunga you can safely ship that way but make sure you have enough escort protection. Also bear in mind the Supply Convoys which regularly turn up at Cape Town. As the war progresses they bring a lot of fuel and supplies which can be used to keep Australia topped up

< Message edited by moonraker -- 3/11/2012 11:48:36 AM >

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/11/2012 9:22:55 PM

crsutton

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And unless there is heavy fighting going on in OZ, the need for fuel there is very limited. Even with her factories short of fuel Oz can produce more than enough suppy. Early in the war, my fuel was going to bases not connected to Oz in order to build up dumps. Aside from a few tanker fleets dumping fuel in OZ (mostly Cape Town to Perth) I just left OZ alone. There was plenty of supply. I can only see it being a problem if there is a major Japanese effort to take out OZ and you have everything you got there. But then again, it is probably more efficient to ship supply to Oz in a case such as that and just not worry about Australian industry. Just dump your fuel in Noumea and Hobart or Auckland if he is pushing south.

I have to admit, I pretty much never had to worry about industry in Oz in my campaigns.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 7:25:05 PM

foliveti

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A lot of folks are talking about convoys from Cape Town to Perth. I have had a heck of a time with Japanese subs off of Perth. Given the scarcity of tankers and escorts, I have been staying away from that route.

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Post #: 37

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 8:10:40 PM

geofflambert

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I prefer the WC to Syd route w/AO pit stops. The West Coast ports load so quickly, and it saves time, and their supply is almost unlimited, plus they're much faster repairing damage to your xAKs and TKs. Advise using xAKs to supplement though it's inefficient. Consider transferring a large quantity of them from the Indian Ocean, especially if you have salvaged a lot from Indonesia (I hope you did). Send the longest range ones so they won't eat so much fuel along the way from WC to OZ. The short range 4k-6k ones are quite adequate for Aden to India work. Also Abadan is so slow loading fuel it can only handle fueling India, and this is important because supply production there is critical. Sticking to the WC to OZ route simplifies providing escorts, and the WC ports are huge and can handle maximally sized Convoys which need no more escort than small ones.

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Post #: 38

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 8:13:20 PM

geofflambert

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Also make sure and send USN base forces to whichever port in OZ you decide to use as soon as they are available, to cut unloading times and speed any needed repairs.

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Post #: 39

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 9:41:10 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: foliveti

A lot of folks are talking about convoys from Cape Town to Perth. I have had a heck of a time with Japanese subs off of Perth. Given the scarcity of tankers and escorts, I have been staying away from that route.

Well yes, if your IJN opponent catches wind of it then you have a problem. Japanese subs are very deadly in 1942. But the one thing that always got good escort were my tanker convoys. Also, it makes a case for using more than one route and port of delivery. Darwin always begs for a Jap sub or two.

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Post #: 40

RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 9:46:50 PM

HansBolter

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A good way to deal with the lack of escorts is to station what I refer to as escort "shepard" groups at the ports the subs concentrate around.

You surely won't have sufficient numbers of escorts to assign them to every TF for the full length of every trip. So station small groups of them at the ports and send them out past the subs to meet and merge with the incoming TFs to shepard them through the sub concentration areas. This IS tedious and heavy on micromanagement as you have to pay attention to when your incoming TFs are nearing the sub concentration areas, but it can be effective.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 3/12/2012 9:47:47 PM >

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/12/2012 11:43:43 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

A good way to deal with the lack of escorts is to station what I refer to as escort "shepard" groups at the ports the subs concentrate around.

You surely won't have sufficient numbers of escorts to assign them to every TF for the full length of every trip. So station small groups of them at the ports and send them out past the subs to meet and merge with the incoming TFs to shepard them through the sub concentration areas. This IS tedious and heavy on micromanagement as you have to pay attention to when your incoming TFs are nearing the sub concentration areas, but it can be effective.

In my first try at playing the Japanese I don't have bases yet which give me range to patrol off Perth with any dwell time. I'm not sure most players will before Allied ASW gets into the '5' range. (Batavia is the obvious choice, but there are others.)

In these early months though I'm harvesting lots of Allied ships between SF and PH, and none of them are near either base. With Glens and patrol areas it's easy to plot bigger triangle areas which overlap. Subs operating from Kwajelein. Out in that 2000-mile wide expanse of nothing rarely is an ASW patrol plane seen, and anything without escort is a good bet for at least one, and possibly three, torpedoes.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/13/2012 1:20:49 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

A good way to deal with the lack of escorts is to station what I refer to as escort "shepard" groups at the ports the subs concentrate around.

You surely won't have sufficient numbers of escorts to assign them to every TF for the full length of every trip. So station small groups of them at the ports and send them out past the subs to meet and merge with the incoming TFs to shepard them through the sub concentration areas. This IS tedious and heavy on micromanagement as you have to pay attention to when your incoming TFs are nearing the sub concentration areas, but it can be effective.

In my first try at playing the Japanese I don't have bases yet which give me range to patrol off Perth with any dwell time. I'm not sure most players will before Allied ASW gets into the '5' range. (Batavia is the obvious choice, but there are others.)

In these early months though I'm harvesting lots of Allied ships between SF and PH, and none of them are near either base. With Glens and patrol areas it's easy to plot bigger triangle areas which overlap. Subs operating from Kwajelein. Out in that 2000-mile wide expanse of nothing rarely is an ASW patrol plane seen, and anything without escort is a good bet for at least one, and possibly three, torpedoes.

Yes, the technique I mentioned is good for getting through concentrations around ports only. If the subs are savvy enough to range among the shipping lanes further out, shepard groups become moot.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/13/2012 5:47:49 AM

geofflambert

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I also use the technique Hans is describing, and on a similar subject to the thread's origination, I use xAKs to "meet" TFs that are critically low on fuel, tranferring their wealth of fuel to them to get them home. This helps with the strategy of not sucking fuel out of the delivery ports, but ekeing out what you have to get back to the supplying ports.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/13/2012 8:35:55 AM

jmalter

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in the early war, many Allied ports are staffed w/ airgroups that need training-time. these guys will need months of training, as well as time for air production to fill out their airframe complement. at the same time, naval escorts will need to be upgraded, to increase their AA/ASW capability. it's gonna take 6-8 months for training/upgrades, before the Allied ASW forces can start to exert some control around its major ports.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/13/2012 1:04:05 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Yes, the technique I mentioned is good for getting through concentrations around ports only. If the subs are savvy enough to range among the shipping lanes further out, shepard groups become moot.

Shepards were used a lot in RL, especially for subs coming in to prevent blue-on-blue attacks. Also for other ship types if minefileds were laid.

My post was only to let newbies know that there are many ways to skin a cat. Near-in base-hex sub ops can be fruitful, but the trade-off is more danger. As an Allied player I know that after a certain date I tend to think of the WC to PH transit as "safe." I've never seen the AI use IJN subs as aggressively as I'm doing, which is good for me when I play the Allies. USN ASW is pitiful early.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/13/2012 1:05:28 PM >

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/13/2012 6:28:19 PM

geofflambert

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Still, better to have some kind of escort even if it's a AMC with no ASW, otherwise the subs will have a field day with their deck gun.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/15/2012 2:15:41 AM

NAVMAN

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geofflambert;
I was not aware that one could trans fuel from xAKs to ships at sea which were not in the same TF.
Thx for the info.

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I also use the technique Hans is describing, and on a similar subject to the thread's origination, I use xAKs to "meet" TFs that are critically low on fuel, tranferring their wealth of fuel to them to get them home. This helps with the strategy of not sucking fuel out of the delivery ports, but ekeing out what you have to get back to the supplying ports.

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RE: Maintaining Fuel Supplies In Australia - 3/15/2012 4:28:49 AM

Dan Nichols

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quote:

ORIGINAL: foliveti

A lot of folks are talking about convoys from Cape Town to Perth. I have had a heck of a time with Japanese subs off of Perth. Given the scarcity of tankers and escorts, I have been staying away from that route.

Albany to the South of Perth can have its port built larger than Perth can. It is a port that is worth using since your TFs are south of the Perth hex row. I still try to have 1 or 2 small ASW TFs the patrol that Perth hex row.

(in reply to foliveti)

Post #: 49