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On ship repairment rate...again...

 
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On ship repairment rate...again... - 11/24/2002 1:42:51 AM   
Samurai

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Croatia
Status: offline 		Does the ship repair rate depend just on the port size and ship type or something else? I have noticed that my ship's are beeing repaired faster in harbours with some extra E units. Or maybe I'm wrong!?
Or maybe on the number of ships that are at anchor!?

I had some of my BB's repaired at Truk and Rabaul, both port size 9, and in Rabaul the sys and flt damage was repaired at a faster rate.

_____________________________

All warfare is based on deception.
Art of War _____ Sun Tzu
Post #: 1
repair rates - 11/24/2002 5:07:41 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, flt damage should repair every turn in a size 3 port or larger. Sys damage is slower and not as certain. The larger ports will repair sys damage faster (as long as not too many ships need repair) Less then 10 don't worry, they wil repair to 0 in about a month. over 10 consider returning to home port (Tokyo/PH)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 2
- 11/24/2002 1:19:34 PM   
rawink

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/30/2002
From: Tallahassee, FL
Status: offline 		I sent the North CArolina to brisbane with 47 sys damage. I removed every ship from portexcept for the BB.

after 45 days, not one point of sys was repaired :(

_____________________________

Robert
Fly, die.. rinse and repeat

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 3
- 11/24/2002 4:24:59 PM   
Samurai

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Croatia
Status: offline 		I dont know... Here is an example... I sent my CVL Shoho to Rabaul with 30 sys damage. Rabaul is port 9, lots of E troops and supplies/fuel Right now (10 days after CVL arrived in Rabaul) sys damage is 18, no flt or fires. On the other hand I sent other CVL (don't know the name) with sys damage at 25 to Truk. Port 9, but no E troops... Right now (about 8 days after it arrived in Truk) damage is at 22. Maybe that principle of uncertain sys repairment rate is somehow odd or there are some other factors that influence that.

P.S. And both ports do have some amount of ships at anchor.

P.S.S. And my BB Kongo that is in Truk repairs slower (20_ now 18) than those in Rabaul, and I have three of them there! (BB Nagato, Haruna, Hiei_ every had about 5 sys damage repaired from 20/25 at the begining)

_____________________________

All warfare is based on deception.
Art of War _____ Sun Tzu

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 4
- 11/24/2002 8:00:43 PM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Its been discussed before and Im sure I've seen official replies on this topic too, but in essence it makes diddly squat difference how many ships you have in port. The big and only factor that comes into play is port size. Each turn every ship is checked individually against some unknown random figure based on Ship size and port size to determine wether a point of damage will be repaired that turn.

To keep a Capital ship in theatre with over 20 sys damage when there are Capital ships available in Pearl/Japan is mad IMHO. Over 20 damage and again IMHO they are next to useless, eg will certainly not perform well in battle, and offer the enemy an easier target to hit.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 5
- 11/24/2002 8:22:22 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Pawlock



well you must got a different game then I do, I just sent a BB back to PH with the rep level at Mod, had a few BB's in PH, bunches of CA's and even a few CVE's, I got 2 TK sent back my way over the next week (I held a number of DD's and AP's that were damaged and sitting in port, so they could all go together)

even worse, after it put the two TK's into the pipe line, the level went down to LOW, so I not expecting anything for a while

maybe PH knows something I don't

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 6
Ship commitment level - 11/25/2002 12:36:19 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi. Depending on the scenario and commitment level choosen at start. There is a ceiling for combined ship value allowed on map.
This value changes in the long campaigns for each side.
Scenario 17 IJN level begins high and then drops while USN level begins low and rises. I don't mean the arrivial probabilty (LOW,MODERATE, HIGH) these just tell you where on map ship value is in relation to ceiling.

If IJN level is 10k and 7.5k on map then it is safe to return a ship to Tokyo for repair and expect when available ships will be sent.
If the repair time for returned ship goes past the decline in points allowed on map then that ship may not be returned without some on map ships being first sent back.

Example current on map permitted total is 10k total on map is 10k
you send CV 300 pt ship back to Tokyo for repair. Repair time of 90 Days. Tokyo sends 300 points of ships (not nessacary CV)
During the 90 day repair time commitment level for on map drops to 7.5k
IJN player is now 2.5k over limit. Tokyo will send no further ships untill IJN player loses or returns in excess of 2.5k ship value.

This means in long Campaigns IJN player should send ships damaged back early and not keep anyship on map he has no use for. (to keep the ones he does want coming as they arrive in Tokyo.) (once the level drops he needs to consider retaining any ship he feels a future need for (except in cases where repair would exceed time remaing in campaign.) Also the IJN really needs to trim ships on map in excess of what is needed (to allow fresh ships to arrive dispite the now lower threshold.

The USN player need not worry about sending ships back to Pearl.
Since his level is rising sending damaged ships back makes perfect sense. They repair faster and will return. Sometime in mid-late 43 he may achive ship on map equal to ship allowed. At this time he too should cull the fleet and return all un-needed ships and lower the amount of damage needed to return to Pearl (but only if there are ships in Pearl he wants released.

Personally I just consider normal rotation for ships. I get to where above 5 sys damage and ship is returned. It does as IJN at some point reduce my total on map ship strength but I allow it because after I have captured certain bases and am directing my efforts at a reduced/narrowed target I do not need excess ships and I consider the lowered commitment level as Tokyo requesting assets back for use else where. (once I am again below the allowed amount I get replacement ships for any sunk/returned.

So even if you send 2k ships back do not expect ships in return
unless the new total on map is below the current allowed on map limit.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 7
- 11/25/2002 1:18:59 AM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami
I agree with what you say, but, I was at MOD before I sent the ships back to PH (along with a number of DD's and AP's)

PH sent me back 2 TK's and the replacement level dropped to LOW

so I don't see how my on map level got higher then what was needed

but in the long run, once 43 comes around, should have plenty of ships in PH ready to go (or come ?) but, don't think they will really be needed

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 8
Ship commitment - 11/25/2002 1:37:32 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, If you were at Mod, sent ships back, recieved 2 Tankers (what 20 points?)(and the pipe line is empty of ships due to arrive?) and dropped to Low then it appears your ship commitment level dropped at that point. (what scenario, time frame? The USN level does not go up up up it starts low goes up drops, and then I think goes up. (IJN starts high, drops, and then rises again slightly I believe) I wish there was a by scenario, by time frame, by side ship commitment chart.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 9
- 11/25/2002 2:27:21 AM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami
lets see, should be in Dec of 42, the game is the Aug 42 to Dec 43 one

I had a number of damaged ships sitting in port, knew that my BB was hurt bad, so waited to send them back, as I was waiting on the CVE's to be ready, so was hopeing to get a big drop in ship points at the same time, to give me a chance to get them

no hassles, will get them when I get them (but was trying to help out)

oh well, back to the point, I don't think you should send back ships, just because there are other ships ready at PH, if you think it has too much damage, sure, but not just because there are open ships

but, that is the way I play/think, if your system works for you great (I try to set my games up, so Air Power takes over)

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 10
Operational commander - 11/25/2002 2:51:14 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Do you believe the operatinal commander has a say in what ships he has under his command? Why would a commander retain units he had no use for? Why would he not go through the chain of command and request units he did need. If in game terms it requires "trading this for that" is the game differant from actual conditions.

SOPAC to CINPAC "Request more Carriers"
CINPAC to SOPAC "Your not using the ships you have"
SOPAC to CINPAC "You can have some of them back"
CINPAC to SOPAC "OK we'll see"

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 11
- 11/25/2002 3:37:15 AM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami
LOL, would agree with you in the play world, but in real life ?, no way, a military commander never believed he has enough "stuff"

but I would like to send my list of needed "stuff" to PH and have them send me what I want

oh well, we got to play the game the way it was designed, between you and me, we may play the game close to how the designed see it, but others, gee I got 10 CV's, send me some more

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 12
- 11/25/2002 3:51:12 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		Want my opinion, Mogami?

The reinforcement system is gamey.

People who know the IJN/USN reinforcement logic have an advantage over those that don't, and its not because they read the manual, better, its not because they know the interface better, its not because they're more familiar with history its because...

They were told this information by the guy who programmed the system.

Cheap!

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 13
Secrets - 11/25/2002 3:59:43 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Are there secrets? the reinforcment system is gamey??

"I'll sit on ships I don't need or want because trading them for something else is gamey?"

But "I'll keep this heavy damaged carrier because it might never come back" is not gamey???

The system is clear, logical and easy to understand...

You can at any certain period have ships equal to a certain amount on map.

This value changes based on what side, and what period.

This value represents the players HIGHER HQ feeling for the area covered by UV.

Where's the beef?


I think in general UV players keep ships they don't want, and keep ships that should be sent home. this effects ship arrival.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 14
- 11/25/2002 5:27:53 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
[B]Hi Pawlock



well you must got a different game then I do, I just sent a BB back to PH with the rep level at Mod, had a few BB's in PH, bunches of CA's and even a few CVE's, I got 2 TK sent back my way over the next week (I held a number of DD's and AP's that were damaged and sitting in port, so they could all go together)

even worse, after it put the two TK's into the pipe line, the level went down to LOW, so I not expecting anything for a while

maybe PH knows something I don't

HARD_Sarge [/B][/QUOTE]

It says Uncommon Valor on the box, does that count?

Anyway to pick up on a point Mogami informed me of a while ago and does make sense, is Pearl/Japan dont like committing Capital ships like Cv's and BB's witjout an escort. So if had no DD's available and ready at said ports then chances are no Capital ship committal. Now perhaps if you had sent those DD's back a few weeks before in order for them to be used as Escorts for Capital ships later on ,then it might have been a different story. I still think there is a bit of pot luck involved, but if understand the system you can limit that.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 15
In real life - 11/25/2002 8:02:04 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I think we are lucky a ship does not arrive with a "return by" date attached. Where you start losing points for keeping it.
Do you think Theatre commander could sit on a CV that had taken damage?

From: SOPAC
To: CINPAC
Subject: Repair parts needed for CV Yorktown

1. Main reduction gear
2. Propeller shaft
3. 3 Boilers
blah blah

From CINPAC
To: SOPAC
Subject: Repair part needed for CV Yorktown

Send my freakin CV back before I fly down there and twist your silly head off your neck you moron. Bad enough you got my ship tore up now you want to screw around with me? Theres a freakin war on you imbecile get with the program.

PS I got more Admirals then I have CV's so don't *&^% with me. Send that ship back NOW!

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 16
Re: In real life - 11/25/2002 8:23:33 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]
Do you think Theatre commander could sit on a CV that had taken damage?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Enterprise was sent back to Pearl Harbor after the damage sustained at Eastern Solomons, but was patched up with the aft elevator still broken. Wasp had been sunk, Saratoga torpedoed, and they sent Big E back into action, where she was promptly bombed again at Santa Cruz. She went back to Noumea, but had to go out again to fight in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. Back to Noumea to finish her repairs, and operated in SOPAC until May 1943.

Enterprise was sat on because she was needed.

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 17
- 11/25/2002 9:12:56 AM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		I do have a beef, Mogami -- if there is indeed a point limit (I assume you mean victory points) on how many ships are allowed by each side during each sec, why don't they TELL us that?

Someone else mentioned how some players have a edge in this area because they talked to people who worked on the game. It's true!

Matrix should include in the manual or somewhere else the max points allowed on the map for each player for each sec. That will really help in deciding what to send back.

I never send anything back unless either System or Float damage is over 50 for that reason, and as soon as damage gets under 20 she goes back into action if I need her. I just don't see a point in sending anything back if I don't get replacement ships.

(Yes, I may be a new player, but I read here every day and I've just had some bad experiences with this.)

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 18
- 11/25/2002 9:50:27 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoulBlazer
[B]I do have a beef, Mogami -- if there is indeed a point limit (I assume you mean victory points) on how many ships are allowed by each side during each sec, why don't they TELL us that?

Someone else mentioned how some players have a edge in this area because they talked to people who worked on the game. It's true!

Matrix should include in the manual or somewhere else the max points allowed on the map for each player for each sec. That will really help in deciding what to send back.

I never send anything back unless either System or Float damage is over 50 for that reason, and as soon as damage gets under 20 she goes back into action if I need her. I just don't see a point in sending anything back if I don't get replacement ships. [/B][/QUOTE]

Why have you got a beef ? really, you are armed with all the information you really need insomuch as when "Committment " is low, less chance of ships being committed, and vice versa for High "Committment" . All Mogami is doing is putting a bit more icing on the cake and giving more an insight to what is happening, but it is not paramount to know any of those figures. As those figures are never seen by the players ,how do this give him an advantage over someone who uses the commitmnet level to gauge ships coming from Pearl/Japan?

Most of the information garnered is gained from experience playing and spending a long time reading and talking to other players and even Matrix /2by3 guys on the forums. I think if you spend much time reading the forums you will find the Matrix guys quite often divulge some inner workings of the game "Publicly". In fact I will point you to some recent findings on Mines, which were not printed in manual but yet explained in more detail by the Matrix guys.
So by your way of thinking, people who dont participate in all the forums yet play the game based on solely the manual are at a huge disadvantage from those that do. Is this wrong? of course not.

Now if you wanna sit on a ship with 50 sys damage thats fine, but there's no way on earth I would consider that knowing theres some undamaged ships sitting at Pearl/Truk I could use. I've come round more and more to Mogami's philosophy on sending ships back even undammaged. It makes sense, whats the point of keeping ships in theatre you aint using? They could be used in another theatre and perhaps instead they can send me ships I can use instead. that sounds entirely plausable to me.

I dont like the word Gamey as some people use, as that implies underhand/ low tactics, it is knowing how the game works yes I agree. But to me thats just experience ,much like knowing not to put aggressive Tf commanders in Cv's tf's if you dont want them to go wandering off of thier own accord.

To cap it all off, generally speaking if people do know more than you ,chances are they have been playing the game longer or have been reading up more than you.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 19
- 11/25/2002 9:55:16 AM   
Yamamoto

 

Posts: 743
Joined: 11/21/2001
From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
Status: offline 		If you want to see the commitment levels (i.e. the numbers) set the game to computer vs computer. It will display the numbers for both sides at the top JC 10000 AC 12000, or something like that.

It might be nice if someone wrote down the dates when the numbers change for scenario 17.

As the Japanese I never send any ship back because continously lowering commitment levels mean I won't get anything good back, unless I've lost a lot os ships. Usually, after a few months, I am over the commitment level so there is no point to send anything back.

Yamamoto

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 20
Commitment ....again - 11/25/2002 10:14:05 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoulBlazer
[B]I do have a beef, Mogami -- if there is indeed a point limit (I assume you mean victory points) on how many ships are allowed by each side during each sec, why don't they TELL us that?

Someone else mentioned how some players have a edge in this area because they talked to people who worked on the game. It's true!

Matrix should include in the manual or somewhere else the max points allowed on the map for each player for each sec. That will really help in deciding what to send back.

I never send anything back unless either System or Float damage is over 50 for that reason, and as soon as damage gets under 20 she goes back into action if I need her. I just don't see a point in sending anything back if I don't get replacement ships. [/B][/QUOTE]


Hi, well in short battles where no replacments arrive you can't send ships back so no matter. In long scenarios you watch the
LOW MODERATE HIGH, ship message and know how close you are (no matter what the ceiling is) If the high and mighty send you a CV 2 CA and 8 DD and the message goes from high to moderate?.
As for sitting on ships damaged over 50 you are making a self fullfilling prophecy. If level of probable arrival is LOW (meaning you exceed or are close to exceeding limit, sitting on damaged ships is one way to insure no new ships arrive.
I am I admit prehaps explaining this poorly or incorrectly.
You are a theatre commander. Not supreme commander. Your nation has other irons in the fire besides yours.
Every ship under your command is on LOAN!!! It is not your permenant property. The Level of commitment (chosen by you before you begin game reflects the overall importance your nation considers your efforts to be)I'm assuming you pick "variable"
It is not automatic if you are 1k under level to get 1k ships (if available) dispatched. Only it will never happen if you equal or exceed the level.
So sitting on damaged ships prevents new ones from being sent.
If the ship you are sitting on will repair before end of campaign.
And it is a type where no replacement is available (or will arrive at home port before end of campaign) then sitting on it is a point for debate. However if you sit on a BB while another BB is back at home. And the point spread is too small for higher HQ to release another BB then you are the problem. (Yes I know, you send damaged BB home and HQ sends 3 AV 2 TK 5 SC 1 PG 3 SS and what not-ships you don't need. and still has that BB sitting there.)
It is not just damaged ships, or point totals. The player must from time to time examine what ships he has under his control.
Decide just what he requires and send all the rest back.
(scary is it not?)
In roughly 2 weeks time many new ships will begin arriving.
Examine them and send what you don't want home. This is not gaming the system. It is using the system rather then being used by it. If you get a ship you like and have a use for keep it.
If you plan on 3 months quiet build up, (this is allies early in most long scenarios) And only have 2 bases you are moving supply to. You really do not need 60 transports. Start returning them as they get 4-10 system damage. Make TF's of ships with same load and speed and return those that do not fit in.
(you do not need 3k tranports to supply advanced bases.
They are too valuable. Take too long to load/unload. They are great for supply to secure bases with suitable ports. But as player you know there will be no need for them for several months. Send them home. (I prefer 2 x1.5k ships to 1x3k)
If you don't have a some what steady flow of ships coming and going you are not in sync with system.

Do not horde ships. Build up amounts when you are planning to use them and return excess/unwanted/damaged ships when you have no need.

Each base requires an amount of supply per day. It does not take too long to discover how long it takes to turn a convoy around between supply base and use point. You can figure out how many ships this requires. Keep a few in reserve. With proper use the system will provide new ships quite often.
Ships that gain experiance (and the damage that goes with this learning) Should be sent home to allow a fresh ship to arrive. At some point you will have a system providing repaired, upgraded and experianced ships. If you stall the rotation process and then later need to obtain replacments you get nothing but untrained ships.

I am refering to the 610 turn scenarios. 100 turns is nothing to worry about (average CV damage 30 (no floation) returned requires around 100 days before it is again ready at Tokyo/PH
To sit on a ship that need 3 months at major yard to repair because you may not get a replacment is silly. If you get nothing it is because HQ considers you to have enough (too much already)
If you get "the wrong ships" then send them back.

Really I must misunderstand, because what I am understanding is
"I keep a ship I can't use because HQ might send me another ship I can't use"
"I keep a ship I can't use because I need it too much"
"I keep a ship I can't use because it's gamey to send it back"

"People who know the system have an edge" (look the game every time you click on ship available tells you the likely hood of ships being sent. You can figure out what you have on map...right???? you can see what is sitting back at home....right???? you can see when every friggin ship is going to arrive back home.......right????? OK now this is where needing inside info confuses me.
HIGH, MODERATE, LOW likelyhood of ship being sent
If HIGH, don't have a cow. HQ will send the next ships that arrive when escorts avaialble.

MODERATE, well this is the tricky one......Something is going to be sent. Don't know what, don't know when but something sometime is coming.

LOW...forget it. Don't wait for HQ. Plan with what you got.
or........start sending that junk your not using, sitting on while repairing, back to get the rating to change from LOW to Moderate.
Send enough back to get to high, (whatever you sent back won't be what you get back)

OK?

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 21
- 11/25/2002 10:24:37 AM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		Well, at least your post was nice, Mogami, so I'll respond to yours.

For the record, although I have only been playing the game for a month, I read the forums EVERY day. I was just trying to say I wanted more insight on the caps (both players have that fairly) so it can help with damaged ships.

I've tried to send damaged ships back in some test games aganist the AI on long secs (15 and 19), and never get anything sent back, even if replacment is on high. That's when I started to really wonder about the whole replacement system. I'd rather park the ship in a Level 9 port and hope I get lucky. If new ships suddenly come down the pipe, fine, then I'll send it back.

But sending back two carriers, four heavy cruisers, and 12 destroyers as the Allies over a course of six months and only getting one heavy cruiser and 4 destroyers back in return REALLY hurt. (And yes, the rate was HIGH)

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 22
Ship levels - 11/25/2002 10:37:27 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, For the record I've been playing since May and I can't say what the actual values or dates for ship commitment are.
While I'm at it, I'll say I know the Japanese start high and then go down. The Allies start low and then go up.
I didn't need the manual or a forum post for this knowledge.
Most of the players pick scenario 17 or 19 because of this.
Don't select "variable" and leave setting on 100 then ships show up when they actually did. (and you need never worry about sending one home)


Don't think of a ship listed as "At Pearl Harbor" as tied up to a dock at Pearl Harbor, rather think of it as belonging to CINCPAC it might be busy somewhere. The ships not at Pearl Harbor often are not even commisioned yet. Variable is how hard it is to convince CINCPAC that you actually need the new ship (even if points would allow it) The "variable" setting besides altering the arrival at home date also alters the "dispatch" with which they are sent.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 23
- 11/25/2002 1:39:48 PM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoulBlazer
[B]
I've tried to send damaged ships back in some test games aganist the AI on long secs (15 and 19), and never get anything sent back, even if replacment is on high. That's when I started to really wonder about the whole replacement system. I'd rather park the ship in a Level 9 port and hope I get lucky. If new ships suddenly come down the pipe, fine, then I'll send it back.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Playing as allies vs the AI, I had high comittment level, plenty of carriers in Pearl, and they wouldn't give me squat beside CVEs. Didn't send anything for months.

Now, it wasn't too bad, since I had sunk most of the IJN. I actually think there's a modifier in there for the amount of stuff that your opponent has.

There's some information I'm not getting though. The system is not fully document in the manual. It just says that the reinforcement rates "generally" start high for IJN and go down, and low for Allies and go up.

But still, the system is strange. If USN/IJN command can withhold ships, they **** well can take ships. What happened after Coral Sea? All the CVs were pulled to Midway.

The problem is that this is hard to do in terms of gameplay. I think players would be pissed if their task forces all of a sudden steamed off the map with nothing they could do about it.

Players are in control of one half of ship allocation -- when in life, they could scream and yell and bitch but if Nimitz wanted one, he could take it away. In the game, the player doesn't have to give up any ships he doesn't want to.

The system is gamey because it doesn't accurately simulate naval deployments. Because we don't have enough information about ships that we can get, players are forced to hoard ships on the theory that a damaged carrier is better than no carrier.

Its a game, but don't try to make it realistic, cuz it ain't.

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 24
- 11/25/2002 1:54:25 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Pawlock

Capital ships like Cv's and BB's witjout an escort. So if had no DD's available and ready at said ports then chances are no Capital ship committal. Now perhaps if you had sent those DD's back a few weeks before in order for them to be used as Escorts for Capital ships later on

well had to go do some checking to see the numbers

PH has 4 CVE's, 3 BB's, 5 CA's, 4 CL's, 14 DD's

so I think it had the escorts if it had wanted to send me any major ships

I was off a little on what I did get sent to me, PH sent me 4 AK's not 2 TK's

and that should of been on 13 Dec 1942

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 25
"Gamey" Reinforcements - 11/26/2002 10:11:08 PM   
dtx

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		"The system is gamey because it doesn't accurately simulate naval deployments. Because we don't have enough information about ships that we can get, players are forced to hoard ships..." --- If we knew exactly when and which ship reinforcements we could get, wouldn't that be more "gamey?"

Consider: Were the actual theater commanders omnipotent/ omniscient? - did they know all the ships in the Pacific, their deployments and could they dictate which reinforcements they received? I think not. Like Xpav noted, ships were taken from commanders, but I'm glad the UV doesn't force this, but rather encourages the player to send unused ships back (to me this approach is a great piece of thinking by the programmers)

Also, war is far from perfect. Theaters that needed desparate reinforcements sometimes got them, sometimes not. Which commanders got what was part internal politics & part need.

History is replete with examples of commanders who hoarded items based on concerns that they wouldn't receive future replacements.

(in reply to Samurai)
Post #: 26
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