RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please)

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/10/2012 8:16:40 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 9 after soviet moves.

No new encirclements. The German concentration at Smolensk appears to be turning south. I evacuate most of the ARM-factories in Tula, as that is more or less in their path. Tula has almost 10% of the ARM points in one spot, cannot afford to lose that, but I really don't like to put them offline by a move either.

In the South, the German panzer group has established a bridgehead across the Dnepr. True to our nature, counterattacks are mounted against both flanks, and we come within one hex and one final combat of cutting off the panzer spearhead. Well, at least the spearhead is now comprehensively tar-babied by a mobile red carpet. And some retreats against the panzers were achieved, which will lower their morale and raise ours, as well as wear them down.

I do feel starved when it comes to reinforcements, almost nothing arriving, and then only shells. I seem to recall there used to be more, but my last GC as the Sovs was under 1.05, so maybe that's changed.

BTW I deliberately let a few divisions be surrounded in Odessa. It will keep some German divisions occupied, and it feels historical.

Also note there is some sneak and peek activity going on in the Pripet marshes, that actually manages to threaten the German rail lines. The enemy has already been forced to assign some divisions to deal with that.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/10/2012 8:20:33 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/10/2012 11:15:35 PM

bigbaba

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the moscow front looks very weak. a HQ buildup for PG 2 and 3 and your western front breaks.

the positive point is that his infantry isn't in the position to support the tanks in the center.

good luck with the defense of the motherland.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/11/2012 6:24:31 AM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

the moscow front looks very weak. a HQ buildup for PG 2 and 3 and your western front breaks.

Yes, that's true, but one cannot be strong everywhere. And it is not as bad as it looks on that shot, there are several layers of spaced checkerboard behind the front. I have prioritized the Leningrad front, which is showing, the enemy advance there has slowed down to a snails pace.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 7:01:56 AM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 10. Map after Soviet moves.

The Germans made a lunge for Bryansk and took it, also Odessa fell sooner than expected. I had hoped to tie down a few Geran divisions for a couple of turns. Otherwise, no fresh disasters or encirclements.

The Workers and Pissants Red Army make a few counterattacks, and throw back panzers both at Leningrad and at Kiev. Also a cavalry division in the marshes manage to tear up some of the Germans newly converted railroad

And the best of all... see post below. All in all it feels like things are going rather well.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 7:07:23 AM

Tarhunnas

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And the pi�ce de r�sistance this turn: The Fascist so called elite are sent home crying for mama! I bet they will have to spend some time sucking their thumbs and cuddling their furry fuhrer dolls before they go near the front again!

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 7:12:56 AM

Tarhunnas

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Losses after Soviet turn 10.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 7:13:47 AM

Tarhunnas

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And the OOB Turn 10.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 12:03:29 PM

janh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
Also note there is some sneak and peek activity going on in the Pripet marshes, that actually manages to threaten the German rail lines. The enemy has already been forced to assign some divisions to deal with that.

Nice work, I recall the Pripyet area was a nuissance to the Germans as well that cost the time and units detached to deal with that. I recall that it took the 3 weeks to hunt down one lone Soviet Cavalry divsion that broke through some south of the landbridge and caused concerns about the safety of rear areas and supply.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/12/2012 4:26:46 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
Also note there is some sneak and peek activity going on in the Pripet marshes, that actually manages to threaten the German rail lines. The enemy has already been forced to assign some divisions to deal with that.

Nice work, I recall the Pripyet area was a nuissance to the Germans as well that cost the time and units detached to deal with that. I recall that it took the 3 weeks to hunt down one lone Soviet Cavalry divsion that broke through some south of the landbridge and caused concerns about the safety of rear areas and supply.

Thanks. Yes, if a Soviet division with CV 1 can tie up a German division with CV 7 for a couple of turns, it is well worth it, even if the Soviet division is eliminated in the end. Sloppy German flank security and leaky pockets will make the German infantry reach the front later, which will make all the difference. Panzers without infantry to make breaches for them is not nearly as dangerous as Panzers with plenty of infantry support nearby. And it will force the Panzers to fight more than they move, which will wear them down.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 8:22:57 AM

Tarhunnas

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This is turn 12, before Soviet moves. Nothing really dramatic, the panzers of AGC are heading mainly southeast, but not threatening anything important really. AGN is still slugging their way towards Leningrad. I am not sure I can hold the place, but I will certainly try. In the south, AGS panzers have finally crossed the Dnepr in force.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 8:25:19 AM

Tarhunnas

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A closeup of 1st Panzer Group east of Kiev. They have had a hard time, and look somewhat the worse for wear. I will try to cobble together a couple of counterattacks. Map before Soviet moves.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 8:27:32 AM

Tarhunnas

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Losses turn 12. I did perform a couple of successful counterattacks on the panzers, but the casualty figures for losses the current turn don't look right, I am pretty sure my casualties were higher than the Germans. I don't trust this screen. Still, the panzers have suffered.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 8:28:45 AM

Tarhunnas

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And OOB atfter Soviet turn 12. Zhukov has been moved to STAVKA.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/13/2012 8:29:12 AM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 11:22:18 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 13. Nothing dramatic happening, the Germans are chugging forward, but no real breakthroughs.

Here is a closeup of the Leningrad front after Soviet moves. The city is still holding, but for how long...?

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 11:24:30 PM

Tarhunnas

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In the South, the weakened divisions of 1st Panzer group are attempting an ambitious exploit, but the leading panzer divisions are cut off and routed in a heroic counterattack by Eremenkos 6th Army.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/13/2012 11:40:44 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/13/2012 11:28:04 PM

Tarhunnas

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OOB after Soviet turn 13. German tank strength is suddenly increasing!

Is that because some divisions have been resting and refurbishing, or is it new reinforcements? I recall there is a panzer corps arriving around this time, so that might be it. But I have an uncomfortable feeling that a few panzer divisions are not accounted for...

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 12:44:48 AM

bigbaba

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congratulation for routing 2 divisions. this poor guys will be not able to do any big attacks in 41 and are out of the race.:)

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 1:00:50 AM

Flaviusx

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2. and 5. Panzer arrive on turn 13, Tarhunnas.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 7:38:25 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

2. and 5. Panzer arrive on turn 13, Tarhunnas.

Thanks! That must be it.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 7:39:47 PM

Tarhunnas

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Turn 14.

The Leningrad front before Soviet moves. The Fascist hordes are pushing forward, but only advance one hex against the city.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 7:43:37 PM

Tarhunnas

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A valiant counterattack from the southeast advances into the German flank. The Germans will easily take back the hexes, but hopefully it will upset their plans. The advance also places a unit adjacent to the panzer stack, which is presumably resting, thus preventing them from being fully refreshed.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/14/2012 9:40:27 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 7:46:21 PM

Tarhunnas

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On the Moscow front, many German infantry divisions are down to CV 4. Don't really know how that happened, but this makes it possible to concentrate for counterattacks, and disperse again in time for the Axis turn. I acheive 4 retreats, helped by the 1:1 kicking in of course, but still.

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/14/2012 7:48:04 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 7:50:09 PM

Tarhunnas

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And the South. The panzers from AGC have more or less met those from AGS, but only a few Soviet divisions were cut off, and the front west of Kursk is a general brawl.

Note that the brave defenders of Kiev are still holding out!

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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/14/2012 7:55:42 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 9:34:46 PM

Flaviusx

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I too am very surprised at the low infantry CVs in AGC.

Leningrad will probably fall, but you've done a great job keeping him busy up there. He can't get stuff out of there in time to hit Moscow now. It's a pity you didn't try to hold up the Finns by the chokepoint up north, though. Otherwise you could just sit tight on the Volkhov. With them at the Svir, your position becomes very sketchy up north and may force a withdrawal further than really necessary up there.

My sense is that AGN wasn't reinforced at all, which shows you just how hard it is to hold Leningrad even against a stock AGN. (It can be done I believe, I've done it, but only against a stock AGN and only with a major commitment up north.)

Generally speaking, I'm doubting that spreading the panzers out like this is the best way to play the Axis. Bob doesn't have enough armor up north, center or south to deliver dramatic results. Grinding on a broad front may just not be good enough, grinding in combination with mass concentrations of armor in given sectors is better imo. Certainly AGN and AGS have had a much more difficult time of it without borrowing armor from AGC. The logistics in the center are such that the big Moscow push has to wait until mid August anyways, so I don't see the payoff in keeping all of Hoth and Guderian in the center. Smashing the flanks and then reconcentrating for Moscow when the rails get to Smolensk just seems more effective to me.

For the love of God, garrison Moscow. That's just asking for trouble, and it's a rookie mistake you shouldn't be making, you're too good for that.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 5/14/2012 9:39:18 PM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 9:50:32 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I too am very surprised at the low infantry CVs in AGC.

Leningrad will probably fall, but you've done a great job keeping him busy up there. He can't get stuff out of there in time to hit Moscow now. It's a pity you didn't try to hold up the Finns by the chokepoint up north, though. Otherwise you could just sit tight on the Volkhov. With them at the Svir, your position becomes very sketchy up north and may force a withdrawal further than really necessary up there.

I haven't thought of that. I usually just move the units there down to the front against the Germans, every unit will tell, and delaying the Finns will just generate avoidable casualties. But I see your point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

My sense is that AGN wasn't reinforced at all, which shows you just how hard it is to hold Leningrad even against a stock AGN. (It can be done I believe, I've done it, but only against a stock AGN and only with a major commitment up north.)

Generally speaking, I'm doubting that spreading the panzers out like this is the best way to play the Axis. Bob doesn't have enough armor up north, center or south to deliver dramatic results. Grinding on a broad front may just not be good enough, grinding in combination with mass concentrations of armor in given sectors is better imo. Certainly AGN and AGS have had a much more difficult time of it without borrowing armor from AGC. The logistics in the center are such that the big Moscow push has to wait until mid August anyways, so I don't see the payoff in keeping all of Hoth and Guderian in the center. Smashing the flanks and then reconcentrating for Moscow when the rails get to Smolensk just seems more effective to me.

I think it is not really the dispersal of the panzer groups, as IMHO each PG is much a self contained fist, but somehow the tactics haven't been working out for the Germans. I have not been off balance, and if the Soviets is not outmaneuvered and off balance, they can cook up all kinds of nasty trouble for the Axis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

For the love of God, garrison Moscow. That's just asking for trouble, and it's a rookie mistake you shouldn't be making, you're too good for that.

We are communists! We don't love god!

But you do have a point, I should have put one more unit in Moscow, but the nearest panzers are down at Orel, not gassed up as far as I can see, and three lines of Soviets at the riverlines in front of them, so I doubt it is even theoretically possible for them to get to Moscow. But, the Germans can pull nasty tricks, so you are right, it was an oversight on my part.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 10:07:44 PM

Tarhunnas

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It is not just AGC, look at this shot of PG1 and accompanying infantry! This just doesn't feel normal!

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/14/2012 11:32:08 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

A valiant counterattack from the southeast advances into the German flank. The Germans will easily take back the hexes, but hopefully it will upset their plans. The advance also places a unit adjacent to the panzer stack, which is presumably resting, thus preventing them from being fully refreshed.

This is more or less what happened on my current game (chronologically speaking). What I did in your similar situation was starting the evacuation of rifle divisions (in your case think about the three 3-units stacks south of the city). After all, once Pavlovo falls you are doomed. I had managed to evacuate almost a dozen rifle divisions before Marquo captured the city (and finally lost 20 of them)

The thing is his panzers might start leaving the area anyway.

Well, unless you really plan to HOLD the city...

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/15/2012 12:01:56 AM

Klydon

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If he has stock forces from just AGN, he doesn't have enough to continue the attack on Leningrad itself without help from PG4. Part of it depends on how far south he has 16th army, but even if he has it all north of the lake, it would still be tough sledding without PG4.

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/15/2012 12:19:50 AM

bigbaba

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hmm, his panzers in the south have also a realy low CV.

< Message edited by bigbaba -- 5/15/2012 12:21:25 AM >

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RE: The Great Patriotic AAR (no BigAnorak please) - 5/15/2012 2:25:53 AM

hfarrish

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Could BA have reduced TOEs on his infantry? That's really the only way I can think of to explain those CVs. Would be a very odd move but maybe he has some deep thinking going on.

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