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- 12/20/2002 8:45:05 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Ok someone agreed with me, now I am nervous, not used to people agreeing with me hehe

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 61
- 12/31/2002 11:43:08 AM   
Grumbling Grogn


Posts: 207
Joined: 10/20/2002
From: Texas!
Status: offline 		I have a five year-old boy in my house. He plays games. He plays games on MY PC. He handles my cds. He is careful, but he is still only five. I hate copy protection I am unable to make a back up copy of the Matrix game I just bought for $50(Uncommon Valor).

Should this cd-rom become scratched and not work... I swear by my CPU that I will never buy another **** game from Matrix again, ever (seriously).

Also, I have no desire to visit warez and crakz sites with all their freakin pop ups and porn crap (yes I have tried). I have decided that I will not be forced into that by companies like Matrix.

Now, I understand why they use the copy protection (I am also a software developer)...and if you read my first paragraph you SHOULD understand why I don't like it and IMHO should be allowed to make a LEGAL back up copy.

I will just go along until something gives one way or the other... Just trying to make a point that Matrix will lose sales by using copy protection as well as not using it. Hell, I held off buying UV until now, and this was one of the reasons...

BTW I am the same person that swore off Shell gasoline 12 years ago and have not been back to a station of theirs since. :)

--as always just my 2 cents

_____________________________

The Grumbling Grognard

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 62
- 12/31/2002 12:15:13 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Ok you didn't hear me say it, and I won't be speaking clearly either, but hmmm a cracked game, and/or a no cd patch is actually the clumsy route eh.

There are after all software programs that can copy what can't be copied (I know).

The programs are designed ostensibly to make legit copies (says so when you install the program eh).

Now the only thing keeping a person from using software such as this for the wrong reason, is personal ethics (same reason I am not telling you any names of any software eh, you get to do your own homework on that one).

So there it is guys. There is no reason to complain about getting a valuable cd damaged. There is no reason you have to use your original and risk it.

I still say though, if you are complaining about having to actually "use" a cd in the drive to play it, hmmm I say that indicates laziness.
I also say that if it is a pain to use in a laptop, then don't use it in a laptop.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 63
- 12/31/2002 1:34:52 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		As long as they replace my damaged copy, I dopn't have a problem (Other than going without my UV fix for a week or two).

And I take my CD where ever I go. Just finished a two week road trip and didn't miss a turn in my ongoing UV PBEM games.

Not a problem.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 64
- 12/31/2002 10:05:57 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		You mention a "damaged copy" how did it get "damaged"?

I can see the people that sold you being responsible for replacement of a damaged product, if it was damaged enroute to you. That is just normal business.

But once you are in possession of the product, the safety, integrity, and replacement of any cd damaged while in your possession is entirely your burden eh.

Now I realise that some of the world enjoys their computing time upon a laptop as opposed to on a desktop system.

Some also talk on the phone while driving. Others chose to read books in the tub. Some will continue to play golf during a storm. Then there is running with pointed sticks eh.

Some activities are outside of the norm, and are disproportinately more likely to cause harm hassle or grief. But they are always choices of the user.

I feel for those out there forced to live off of a laptop, but it can't be considered the norm eh.

A no cd patch for a game for a laptop is not the best route.
Using the original is also not really the best solution.
But a person would have to be completely uninformed and totally insulated in order to be unable to locate a means to make copies yes copies of cds.
And if you are only making copies to be used as disposable travel disks, no one is going to get offended.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 65
- 1/1/2003 1:22:33 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		Sarge, my copy is not damaged. I was saying that if it was to be damaged, they should replace it.

I bought the program on the CD, not the CD itself.

I have had experinces like this before. All I did was send the damaged CD/diskette back, and recieved a new copy. If I had lost it, I would have been screwed. I guess that goes along with the responsibility piece you mentioned.

But having a 5 year old play frisbee with your disk and damage it beyond repair, I beleive Matrix would replace the item. Just ask them.

And it should be that way. It is a copy protection issue, not a make you repurchase the item issue.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 66
- 1/1/2003 1:50:12 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Hmmm well I can't speak for Matrix, but I suspect their reply might be, that while you bought "the program" it was a requirement of physicality limitations, that it was placed on a cd.

That the cd was damaged and not the program, makes little difference to my understanding.

After all, it will cost Matrix real money to make a second cd and then mail it.

As has been mentioned in considerable posts, often a price cost exceeding the sale cost of the item, in mail costs with shipping, to international customers is not out of the ordinary.

Now surely you don't expect Matrix to pick up the cost of all those non program related expenses do you? Just because your physical item (the cd) was damaged through no action of Matrix.

If I buy an item, and I break it through my own actions (or a family member, or act of god ie house burns down), this means sorry life sucks you need to buy a new cd.

It is always good customer relations to sympathise with the consumer when possible, but what you are asking for is something that major retail operations can offer (to their folly in my opinion), but that is due to their being a major retail operation.

I worked for Leons (a major furnishing chain) for several years in delivery. I saw items returned for whole idiotic reasons in numerous cases. But the store was "satisfaction garanteed" oriented. And those returned items had to be factored into the whole of the routine of doing business.

Now if Matrix were to adopt this policy (and I don't think replacing items damaged long after purchase even qualifies here), then they would have no choice but to tack on say 15 bucks to each item to accomodate the cost of doing business this way. That by the way is the way businesses factor in this uneviable secondary expenses.

I don't hold Matrix responsible for replacing my software. Nor is Leons responsible for replacing my broken dining chairs (that my fat butt friends have broken over the years).

You can only take steps to ensure it "doesn't get broken" or take steps to ensure it isn't your only viable copy.
Your only obligation to Matrix, is you don't make copies and give and or sell them thus stealing their profits.
Their only obligation to you, is to deliver the item you purchased...once.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 67
- 1/1/2003 2:00:35 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		So let's say Matrix replaces the CD and you have to forward the cost of the shipping. ( I broke it/damaged it, so it is a small cost for my error)

How much does it cost to send a CD? (First Class Postage?)

How much doea it cost to make the CD? (Pennies)

Those costs are small in comparison to a satisfied customer who will purchase additional Matrix games.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 68
- 1/1/2003 2:43:08 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Well it costs me more for a bag of Doritos than it does to ship a cd in a 1 dollar bubble envelope cd mailer to any on the planet.

But if I had not gotten a Texas resident to forward from her home a Mega Campaign she ordered for me that was first sent to her home, it would have cost me an additional 21 bucks.

Matrix though is a business, not a private citizen just dumping an item in the mail.
An entire waste of time asking a business, "to just dump product in the mail" for one thing, it is likely illegal in some manner "duties" etc.

Now would you pay the shipping costs if they offered it to you sans item cost?
Of course this also runs into another problem.
Oops my Desert fox just broke, no problem, I will get Matrix to replace it, sorry dude there are no more cds left, the stock is all gone.

How would you get past this potential snag?

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 69
- 1/1/2003 2:51:07 AM   
The MSG


Posts: 2259
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Sviþjoð
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by slickric
[B]I buy all my games and 85% of them I have put away after 3 days and kicked my slef for paying 49.99$ for them. [/B][/QUOTE]

You must be my long lost brother! :D

_____________________________

"Arf! Arf! Thats my other dog impression."
-Oddball


(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 70
- 1/1/2003 3:06:05 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by The MSG
[B]You must be my long lost brother! :D [/B][/QUOTE]

I bought UV in June, and it is the current game I play most.

I have 6 PBEM games going and looking to start a seventh.

If I figure how much I payed per hour of enjoyment, I am now in the pennies per hour range....:D

Worth more than the $49.99 I spent on it.

As for ther replacement CD issue, it is dependent on many factors. The biggest is if Matrix would replace it. If not, it is a moot point. The fact that UV is so popular they keep seeling out, I would probably have to wait to get it, as it would most likely be on backorder.

As a note, I recently acquired a copy of Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space, a game that has been out of print for years (I originally bought it in 1993). I sent Interplay my old diskettes and $5, and they sent me the CD version (much better than the diskette version).

So it is possible.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 71
- 1/1/2003 3:20:46 AM   
The MSG


Posts: 2259
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Sviþjoð
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by denisonh
[B]I bought UV in June, and it is the current game I play most.

I have 6 PBEM games going and looking to start a seventh.

If I figure how much I payed per hour of enjoyment, I am now in the pennies per hour range....:D

Worth more than the $49.99 I spent on it.

As for ther replacement CD issue, it is dependent on many factors. The biggest is if Matrix would replace it. If not, it is a moot point. The fact that UV is so popular they keep seeling out, I would probably have to wait to get it, as it would most likely be on backorder.

As a note, I recently acquired a copy of Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space, a game that has been out of print for years (I originally bought it in 1993). I sent Interplay my old diskettes and $5, and they sent me the CD version (much better than the diskette version).

So it is possible. [/B][/QUOTE]

Assuredly some games are worth their cost and more. I just identified myself with that repeated self butt-kicking!:D

Sometimes one wonders if one really brought home that POS minutes after installing, others Ive played almost daily since 1999... I still play SPWAW, not because it is free, but because it is a great game.

As a Euro I have had problems with buying Matrix software because I have to UPS it, thats an additional 40$US... and paying 40$ for a replcement CD feels a bit steep. Perhaps replacement CD's could be snail-mailed? I would be ok with that around 7$US.

Also, since we all know the absolute majority of copy protection routinely is beaten by crackers, are the companies in reality punishing their loyal customers more than the pirates?

Everyone speaks well of UV, I was waiting for War in the Pacific, but Ill go check if one of the local EB Games have it (and if not, suggest that they do).

-edit-
And since the company has taken the action that limits the customers ability to backup the software (wich is the product after all), I do not find it completely unreasonable that they pick up the cost for printing a new CD, they probably get great deals on CD-R's...

_____________________________

"Arf! Arf! Thats my other dog impression."
-Oddball


(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 72
- 1/1/2003 3:26:10 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Hmm that was cool of Interplay eh. But you did pay some of the cost eh.

Matrix has long since earned my purchase of Combat Leader. Not even sure I need it eh, but I am assuming it will be so much better than Steel Panthers.

But hey, Matrix gave me Steel Panthers for free, really good on them. I wonder how many copies of that game they have defacto "given away".

I think by and large, Matrix will have to go well and far out of their way to be indebted to me.

But I sure feel in their debt myself.

This forum, the game, all the effort, man they are awesome.

Probably not impossible to find an example of a business that has done what they have done, but I don't know any currently.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 73
- 1/1/2003 3:47:51 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by The MSG
[B]Assuredly some games are worth their cost and more. I just identified myself with that repeated self butt-kicking!:D

Sometimes one wonders if one really brought home that POS minutes after installing, others Ive played almost daily since 1999... I still play SPWAW, not because it is free, but because it is a great game.

..snip...

Everyone speaks well of UV, I was waiting for War in the Pacific, but Ill go check if one of the local EB Games have it (and if not, suggest that they do).

snip... [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, anyone who purchases computer games over time will buy a POS that probably spent less time on the hard drive than it took to load it:D .

And by the way, saw UV in EB the other day. The new packaging looks good.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to abradley)
Post #: 74
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