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RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 5:25:48 PM   
ULTIMO


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: ITALY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Ok, that's a possible clue. Are you saying that you can see the weather graphics on the map for a few seconds? I think we were focused on the weather indicator at the top right of the screen, and not the weather graphics. Is this the case with recent versions?



EXACTLY

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Post #: 31
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 5:28:06 PM   
ULTIMO


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		Thanks to jwduquette1.

I know my English needs a refresh. His explanation is very clear.

So I dont need Holy Water anymore?

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Post #: 32
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 6:58:54 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
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quote:

I'm not sure if this is similar to what ULTIMO is referring to, but an example of what I think he might mean occurs when the rail road status button is left "ON" when ending a turn. For several seconds while the end of turn calculations and routines are occurring and before the SAVE screen pops-up you can see the status of the enemies RR (those green or red circles over RR-tracks). With RR status it's not such a big deal as you can in essence see the status of the enemies RR's by hovering over a hex with the mouse cursor and looking at the status of the tracks in the hex info pop-up.

With the Random weather cheat that ULTIMO is referring to, do the weather graphics -- those little brown mud dots -- appear on the map during the end of turn calcs and routines -- ala the RR track status button being left in the ON position?


I've tried it and don't see it. Several seconds is way too much to be missed. My PC is not too fast to miss it.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to jwduquette1)
Post #: 33
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 6:59:58 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Ok, what version are you guys using when you see this bug? Are you sure you are seeing it in PBEM or Server play as that was fixed. It should only show you the weather graphics during the logistics phase when playing the AI.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 5/17/2012 7:05:38 PM >

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(in reply to ULTIMO)
Post #: 34
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 7:04:49 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

I'm not sure if this is similar to what ULTIMO is referring to, but an example of what I think he might mean occurs when the rail road status button is left "ON" when ending a turn. For several seconds while the end of turn calculations and routines are occurring and before the SAVE screen pops-up you can see the status of the enemies RR (those green or red circles over RR-tracks). With RR status it's not such a big deal as you can in essence see the status of the enemies RR's by hovering over a hex with the mouse cursor and looking at the status of the tracks in the hex info pop-up.

With the Random weather cheat that ULTIMO is referring to, do the weather graphics -- those little brown mud dots -- appear on the map during the end of turn calcs and routines -- ala the RR track status button being left in the ON position?


I've tried it and don't see it. Several seconds is way too much to be missed. My PC is not too fast to miss it.


That was fixed several patches ago. You used to see it, but not anymore.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 35
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 7:05:19 PM   
Helpless


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quote:


That was fixed several patches ago. You used to see it, but not anymore.


Exactly.

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 36
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 7:07:13 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Ok, that's a possible clue. Are you saying that you can see the weather graphics on the map for a few seconds? I think we were focused on the weather indicator at the top right of the screen, and not the weather graphics. Is this the case with recent versions?


Same here, the weather used to be visible for a few seconds, but not now anymore. ULTIMO, are you really playing with the latest version?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 37
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/17/2012 7:10:34 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Yes, Pavel and I both tested it and it is not showing weather in PBEM/server games during logistics, so we don't see a cheat (with the recent versions).

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All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 38
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/18/2012 9:25:22 AM   
ULTIMO


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I'm using 1.06.06 and playing PBEM.

As described by jwduquette and understood by Joel, it is possible to see the next turn weather for a millisecond, if you are the Soviet.

To do this, you must position your pc screen upon the weather zone you are interested to cheat and try the procedure several times untill you get the weather you prefer.
Look at the graphic: IF it comes MUD you will see it for a millisecond.
ciao

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Post #: 39
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/18/2012 11:42:03 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

it is possible to see the next turn weather for a millisecond, if you are the Soviet.


now I may need Holy Water to be able to see millisecond flicker which is probably a microsecond on my PC.

_____________________________

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to ULTIMO)
Post #: 40
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/18/2012 3:19:31 PM   
jwduquette1

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 3/5/2011
Status: offline 		I went back through a number of PBEM files I have saved -- from a PBEM game we were playing with RANDOM weather. This was a PBEM game from several months back using what was than the most current beta -- 1.06.04. I tried various things to see if I could see the weather graphics appear during the interim end turn sequence between the Soviet and Axis turns. I started and ended several turn files numerous times during the heart of the mud\snow\blizzard period between late October and December of 1941. This was done from the perspective of ending my turn as the Soviet side. I was never able to see the weather graphics appear during the end turn sequence.

< Message edited by jwduquette1 -- 5/18/2012 3:23:40 PM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 41
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/18/2012 5:02:12 PM   
ULTIMO


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I see your point. Unfortunately I can.
However I always play as the Axis.

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Post #: 42
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/18/2012 9:52:49 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1312
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		hmmm, the weather for the next sequence (Axis-Soviet) is determined at the end of the Soviet turn, so what you see is the weather you already know because you just played it as Axis...

(in reply to ULTIMO)
Post #: 43
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/19/2012 10:12:28 AM   
ULTIMO


Posts: 51
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		glvaca: this is exactly what we are talking about.

The SOVIET can see the weather, not the Axis.

In order to avoid confusion and redundant clarifications, before posting any comment, please read carefully the previous posts.

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Post #: 44
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/19/2012 2:36:41 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ULTIMO

In order to avoid confusion and redundant clarifications, before posting any comment, please read carefully the previous posts.


I think this is where the confusion began:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ULTIMO

However I always play as the Axis.


(in reply to ULTIMO)
Post #: 45
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/20/2012 2:08:46 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ULTIMO

glvaca: this is exactly what we are talking about.

The SOVIET can see the weather, not the Axis.

In order to avoid confusion and redundant clarifications, before posting any comment, please read carefully the previous posts.


It is true that one used to be able to see weather on an end turn...but no longer. Not sure if it is differnt for Axis but for Soviet at least as far as I know there is no way to see weather. Then again, half the time I have to be told we had mud before I am aware of it, given that usually I am engroseed in trying not to get pocketed...

(in reply to ULTIMO)
Post #: 46
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/21/2012 10:34:27 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I was interested in this so I checked it out. I tried ending a turn PBEM, server game and vs the AI. As the Soviets, on none of those occasions could I see any weather graphics.

However if I turned on railroad displays before ending the turn I could see the Axis rail net fairly clearly. Also, after a second or two, I could see the changes due to the logistics phase. That gave me a fairly clear indication as to where the FBDs were. I guess I could do a reload and use that information to unload some bombers onto the FBDs which might give me a slight advantage.


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Post #: 47
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/21/2012 10:46:33 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
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From: Washington, DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
However if I turned on railroad displays before ending the turn I could see the Axis rail net fairly clearly. Also, after a second or two, I could see the changes due to the logistics phase. That gave me a fairly clear indication as to where the FBDs were. I guess I could do a reload and use that information to unload some bombers onto the FBDs which might give me a slight advantage.


But you can also figure this out at any time by just mousing over the rail hexes...

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 48
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/21/2012 11:21:37 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
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quote:

However if I turned on railroad displays before ending the turn I could see the Axis rail net fairly clearly. Also, after a second or two, I could see the changes due to the logistics phase. That gave me a fairly clear indication as to where the FBDs were. I guess I could do a reload and use that information to unload some bombers onto the FBDs which might give me a slight advantage.


quote:


But you can also figure this out at any time by just mousing over the rail hexes...



Yes, this is known and probably could be fixed w/o major efforts.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 49
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/21/2012 12:20:38 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Yes, this is known and probably could be fixed w/o major efforts.


Frankly I don't know if it should be fixed, it is not as if the relevant contruction work could be kept secret. I would think that partisans and/or recon flights would be able to detect the progress on converting rails pretty easily. It could also be hard to miss the numerous supply trains running on the rails.

The rails themselves aren't going anywhere, so it is not as if you would not know where to look...

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 50
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/22/2012 5:25:02 PM   
jwduquette1

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 3/5/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Yes, this is known and probably could be fixed w/o major efforts.


Frankly I don't know if it should be fixed, it is not as if the relevant contruction work could be kept secret. I would think that partisans and/or recon flights would be able to detect the progress on converting rails pretty easily. It could also be hard to miss the numerous supply trains running on the rails.

The rails themselves aren't going anywhere, so it is not as if you would not know where to look...


I agree and I think this is a non-issue. Functional\operational rail lines would be readily visible from simple air recon. And since operational lines can already be determined from the hex information pop up, why not just make all operational lines on both sides visible when the RR information button is toggled on.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 51
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/22/2012 9:32:41 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1312
Joined: 6/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Yes, this is known and probably could be fixed w/o major efforts.


Frankly I don't know if it should be fixed, it is not as if the relevant contruction work could be kept secret. I would think that partisans and/or recon flights would be able to detect the progress on converting rails pretty easily. It could also be hard to miss the numerous supply trains running on the rails.

The rails themselves aren't going anywhere, so it is not as if you would not know where to look...


+1
In fact, on the topic of intelligence, I'd really love to see armies and/or fronts/AG being reported in combat or intell. They knew very well who they were fighting, which unit, Coprs/Army, the commanders, etc...
It would actually deepen the immersion knowing which armies/commanders/etc... are deployed where.

Just a thought...

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 52
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/22/2012 10:36:22 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

In fact, on the topic of intelligence, I'd really love to see armies and/or fronts/AG being reported in combat or intell. They knew very well who they were fighting, which unit, Coprs/Army, the commanders, etc...
It would actually deepen the immersion knowing which armies/commanders/etc... are deployed where.

Just a thought...


You get part of that information in the combat details. I think that is ok, after an attack, they would know more, maybe capture prisoners etc.

_____________________________

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41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
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(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 53
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/22/2012 11:31:54 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1312
Joined: 6/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

In fact, on the topic of intelligence, I'd really love to see armies and/or fronts/AG being reported in combat or intell. They knew very well who they were fighting, which unit, Coprs/Army, the commanders, etc...
It would actually deepen the immersion knowing which armies/commanders/etc... are deployed where.

Just a thought...


You get part of that information in the combat details. I think that is ok, after an attack, they would know more, maybe capture prisoners etc.


That goes without saying. I'm asking for more
For instance, III Pz Corps is the modifying HQ on the German side, it would be nice to know:
1. who commands III Pz Corps.
2. Which Army it is attached too
3. which AG this Army is attached too.

Same from the Geramn perspective. This was all common knowledge during the conflict.


(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 54
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/23/2012 12:58:46 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Amazing how detailed this problem notification has been. Since I only play AI and have experienced "mud" a few times in summer/early fall, I learned something useful: that it might happen! Have stopped cursing and now believe that a sprinkle of holy water is needed.

But amazed at anyone continuing a game with a cheater, once convinced.

Seems that it is necessary to report the circumstances to the developers and I applaud those that do (and do so privately.) But by all means, ditch the cheaters w/o further comment. Flame wars aren't needed.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 55
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/23/2012 1:09:37 PM   
Callistrid

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline 		thre is another "cheat", when the soviet relocate the HQ-s for better leaders

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Post #: 56
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/23/2012 3:37:54 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I agree and I think this is a non-issue. Functional\operational rail lines would be readily visible from simple air recon. And since operational lines can already be determined from the hex information pop up, why not just make all operational lines on both sides visible when the RR information button is toggled on.


It was not about line operations.. and probably not even WITE item.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to jwduquette1)
Post #: 57
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/23/2012 4:45:40 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
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quote:

However if I turned on railroad displays before ending the turn I could see the Axis rail net fairly clearly. Also, after a second or two, I could see the changes due to the logistics phase.


Depending on the gaps in the rail net (certainly in '41) you can generally derive mud from the logistics shading on the hexes.
This would only have a 'cheating' use in PBEM, where the sending player could just keep rerunning the end turn command until he saw the weather he wanted them send that save to his opponent.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 58
RE: The House of CHEATING - 5/23/2012 5:06:45 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca

In fact, on the topic of intelligence, I'd really love to see armies and/or fronts/AG being reported in combat or intell. They knew very well who they were fighting, which unit, Coprs/Army, the commanders, etc...
It would actually deepen the immersion knowing which armies/commanders/etc... are deployed where.

Just a thought...


You get part of that information in the combat details. I think that is ok, after an attack, they would know more, maybe capture prisoners etc.


That goes without saying. I'm asking for more
For instance, III Pz Corps is the modifying HQ on the German side, it would be nice to know:
1. who commands III Pz Corps.
2. Which Army it is attached too
3. which AG this Army is attached too.

Same from the Geramn perspective. This was all common knowledge during the conflict.



I agree, that would be nice. Maybe not all of it every time, but randomized so that you got some of it some of the time.

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 59
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