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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Battle for Korea

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RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 8:28:15 AM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

That is one of the things I love about the game. You learn something new every week even after playing for 6 years. I had 14k for DBs in my notes as well. Don�t know where I got it from though. My CAP was at 10k. Didn�t know the Escorts went in at 2k higher. Wonder if going in higher then my CAP somehow "sheltered" the strike planes. As I said Erik has had some remarkable success getting his strike planes in the alpha strike cleanly though.

Anyone know anything about this?

Yes.

1) escorts fly 2k above a strike they coordinate with. This could have caused your CAP to attack the Sams from a position of disadvantage, making it less effective.

2) BUT:

Erik did NOT get his "alpha strike" cleanly through. He got shredded. He only attacked with enough planes that you CAP was unable to stop everything.

The combat replay split into separate parts - for example an escorted package preceeded and followed by small unescorted packages that get ripped apart, as in your battle - happened because of your CAP. It was way too much for Erik�s escort fighters to protect every attack plane. The rest was exposed to CAP without any protection.

The only part of the strike that got through unmolested was the one you are thinking of as the "alpha strike", which in thruth was simply the percentage of the strike in cover range of the escort fighters. This part might have fared better as the escorts held the alt advantage.

It is simply incorrect to watch every combat animation as separate entity. Doing so leads to a whole lot of wrong conclusions about cause&effect relationships, and keeps many players from better understanding the air model.

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 2/9/2014 10:47:33 AM >

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Post #: 3631

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 10:48:52 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Good point. I tend to forget about the separate parts being parts of the whole.

So in this case I would have been better off putting some my CAP higher up then? If that is the case where would be the best altitude assuming Erik came in at 15k? At 18k above his Escorts or at 16k above his strikes? Or a mix of both?

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Post #: 3632

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 11:45:13 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Not knowing enough yet about layered CAP, I would think you need at least three, if not four, different altitudes. With Escorts coming in at 2k above the DB/TB (max for DBs being 14k or 15k), then fighters with the best speed should be at 18k to 20k with another one or two at 2k to 3k below that. Thus, 19k for one altitude band, another at 16k, and a third at 13k. Those at the 13k would be the ones with the best maneuver rating to try to avoid his fighters bouncing on them. The final altitude would need to be down at 5k or 6k (maybe lower??) to get a shot at kamikazes. Where am I wrong in this thinking??

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Post #: 3633

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 12:48:31 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I had a layered CAP in place but considering Erik came in very high I doubt any of the lower planes had any chance to get up there.

I had the US Corsairs at 10k, Brit Corsairs at 6 or 8 (can�t remember) and then some British SeaFires down at 4k. I expect only the US Corsairs had a chance to get up to the strike planes. Certainly going to change stuff around for next time.

Should be able to start doing the turn in an hour or so. Been busy renovating the hallway and stairs to the 2nd floor all day. Going to make some coffee and pour a scotch now.

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Post #: 3634

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 2:23:56 PM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Turn is off to Erik. Very straight forward. Just trying to get everything in under the CV CAP which should still be in good shape. Around 600-700 planes.

Oh, and while Erik is hopefully looking at Korea we ordered a massive strike against the HI. Only 120 Fighters over Osaka, 30 over Hammatsu and none over Tsu. Fingers crossed!

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Post #: 3635

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/9/2014 4:51:58 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

3rd June -45
______________________________________________________________________________

Only seen the replay so no real numbers.

------------------------
Korea
------------------------
By the looks of it Erik turned on most of what LBA he had left. A few strikes got though and one inflicted damage.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kaishu at 101,49

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ib Peggy x 27
Ki-100-I Tony x 17

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 17
Corsair IV x 90
Seafire L.III x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 150
F4U-1D Corsair x 346

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 19 destroyed
Ki-67-Ib Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-100-I Tony: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Implacable
CVE Slinger, Kamikaze hits 1, heavy damage
CVE Altamaha
CVE Natoma Bay, Kamikaze hits 1
CVE Kadashan Bay, Kamikaze hits 1
CVE Fencer

None of them were previously damaged. Hopefully they will make it. Sadly a few allied strikes are flown against some xAKLs around Fusan during the day.

Erik sent some bombers against Moppo but only managed 4 Runway hits. But with the amount of disruption among the engineers I doubt the field will be open anytime soon.

Allied Sweeps from the Okinawas take a huge toll on some Sams probably on LRCAP.

------------------------
Strat bombing
------------------------
Not really sure if I should be happy or devastated. Nothing went as planned (as usual

). Not one of the escorts flew and the sweep arrived well after the bombers. I can�t complain about the result though but man I did pay a heavy price today.

This is the last of the Osaka strikes. Look at the fires!!!

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 2

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 5 damaged

Ki-83 factory hits 1
Fires 524400

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Sadly that was proceeded by lots of THIS.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 7
A7M2 Sam x 30
J2M3 Jack x 36
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 23
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 46
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 32
Ki-100-I Tony x 28
Ki-102b Randy x 5

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 8 destroyed, 10 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 4 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 2
Fires 810

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 3
A7M2 Sam x 15
J2M3 Jack x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 36
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 27
Ki-100-I Tony x 9
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 12
B-29-1 Superfort x 3
B-29-25 Superfort x 14
B-29B Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
B-29B Superfort: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 55
Ki-83 factory hits 1
Fires 27000

If this burns for a couple of days the damage can end up disastrous. Fingers crossed for that. Also got some hits on a Ki-83, a Frank and a Shinden factory. If the Shinden factory was knocked out (only 6 hits though) I think Erik has only two more but I will have to double check.

------------------------
Allied losses
------------------------
Its hard to speculate on losses but I might have lost 3-400 B29s/B24s today.

So annoying because I had 100 P38s set to escort over Osaka but not a single one showed up. The sweeps showed up in the afternoon and wrecked the CAP. If they had showed up before the bombers losses would have been a tenths.
The Invaders Sweeps never showed up at all and they hit a big CAP losing 70% of the planes...ouch.

But if the fires burn for a couple of days now it will all be worth it. I have never even managed half of that number of fires before. I hope the LI and HI burns real good!

Hitting the Fighter factories was also good. I think in the future I will not spread out on several bases but rather focus everything on a single target. But it will be a while before we can strike again. No doubt. The only positive thing with the losses was the the Privateers seems to have taken most of the losses. I do have a good pool of those thankfully. Sadly the Liberator and B29 pools are empty and losses will probably take months to recover.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/9/2014 5:52:53 PM >

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Post #: 3636

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 2:48:49 AM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

I think you need to move some of your CAP up in altitude. NY59Giants's understanding matches my own. You need some low ones to handle kamis and low Betty strikes, some up near 20,000, and most in the middle somewhere. Also, could you give us screenshots of your LCUs at Moppo showing the hard and soft values? I'd be interested to see that.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 3637

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 4:23:09 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

I think you need to move some of your CAP up in altitude. NY59Giants's understanding matches my own. You need some low ones to handle kamis and low Betty strikes, some up near 20,000, and most in the middle somewhere. Also, could you give us screenshots of your LCUs at Moppo showing the hard and soft values? I'd be interested to see that.

Cheers,
CC

Agreed, I did move around 200 Corsairs up to 17k for this turn.

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Post #: 3638

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 5:26:57 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

HI Strike
______________________________________________________________________________

Finally got the turn from Erik. Losses were much, much lighter then expected!!

I did take a jab though but going up against a fully functional Japanese air force losses are unavoidable. This is not the real war when Japan was flying Biplanes with fuel drums attached to them. Erik is flying Ki-83, Franks, Jacks and Sams in almost unlimited numbers. Two turn ago Erik had 2000 Fighters on Kyushu and Korea alone.

His focus on Korea has given me great opportunities over the HI. He can�t continue to fly offensive missions over Korea AND cover is industry properly. Today saw less the 100 fighters over Hamamatsu. I can�t squander this opportunity. Push, push, push!

------------------------
Allied losses
------------------------
We of course DID take losses but nothing even close to what I feared. Its actually not that bad! The Privateers took a big hit but that the only air frame I have in numbers. That is why I moved them to the Okinawas in the first place although they have only 8 bombs.

Privateers - 41 These can be instantly refilled. I have a pool of 218 planes.
B-29B -40 Losses in this airframe is to be expected. They do no better at night. Compare it to the losses with the other B29s and you can see what difference having defensive guns do...
Invaders -30 Can also be replaced.
B24 - 27 Pool is dry
B29-24 -14 Pool is dry
B29-1 -5 Pool is dry

Total losses
157 Bombers

So relieved right now.

I was expecting twice the losses at least! The 225 P38s for Osaka (on Escort) AND the sweeps for the Invaders were all situated on the same base (Okinoba something something). Turns out everything on that base rained in. The problem lies in the x2 engines on the P38. They simply take up so much room its hard to put them on the same base as the strikes.

------------------------
Damage assessment
------------------------
Hard to do a proper count here as the fires havn�t burned down in Osaka yet. There are still 200k fires burning and that usually means a lot of damaged HI/LI. Oddly enough no HI/LI was damaged on the first night. That better change for the next turn...

What I do know is that Ki-83 plant at Osaka is now toast and Frank Factory is still running but at half power (15). We also burned down the Shinden factory which was the most important target!

I was certain Erik had 4x30 Shinden factories but I can only find 3 now. That means we have managed to destroy 66% of the Shinden production! This is very important as the Shindens arrival is set on 6/45. I don�t know if/when Eriks production started but now he is getting only 30 per months. Very manageable numbers.

The normal thing to do now would be to rest and recover. So I won�t do that. I�m going to try and dig out some more planes somewhere and hit the Ki-83 factory at Hammatsu. I have 75 P47Ns that never flew their Sweeps over Osaka. I can use those. All I need is to find some bombers for the job. If needed I will fly in some from China. I have 50 brand new Aussi B24 coming up but I don�t think I can get them all the way in the next turn.

With some luck Erik continues to focus on Korea and assumes no more strikes will come for a while letting his guard down even more.

------------------------
Priority Targets
------------------------
I will continue to hit Fighter factories. I started down that road and trying something else now is probably counterproductive. For now I will focus on the following:

The KI-83 factories.
Frank Factories.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3639

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 5:42:44 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Naval losses
______________________________________________________________________________

Only the Munda sank during the turn. She was hit 2 days ago and had 88 fires burning. I had intended to scuttle her but forgot about it.

No other CVE are in sinking condition. But they move so slow! Frustrating to be limping alone at 2 hexes per turn. This turn I actually moved only ONE.

If some of the CVEs can�t pump out some water in the next couple of turns they will have to be scuttled. I can�t lock the entire navy in escorting them back for 3 weeks.

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Post #: 3640

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 7:53:38 AM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Turns and updates might be a bit sporadic from me during the coming week. I�m getting married on Saturday and Maria has told that if the hallway/stairs arn�t finished on Thursday she will divorce me right after the wedding.

Apparently she doesn�t want her familiy staying here over weekend if it looks like a building site and the 2nd floor isn�t accessible! Sheesh!

I�m just a...tad behind schedule...a tad...!

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Post #: 3641

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 8:00:47 AM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Hi Jocke,

Very interesting reading!

Many congrats on the pending Wedding

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Post #: 3642

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 9:27:36 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Thanks Speedy! Its certainly tense right now. Havn�t enjoyed the game this much in a very long time! Every turn is nerve wrecking.

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Post #: 3643

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 9:38:36 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Turn is off to Erik.

Another strike at the HI is ordered. Turns out only half the B24s flew yesterday. Most of those were set to the Shinden factory. Guess the destruction of it caused their orders to reset. Very good for me! For tomorrow 200 P38s will again try to escort 120 B24 to Hamamatsu. They will hopefully be preceded by 100 P47Ns sweeping. Target is the Ki-83 factory.

I did a quick recap of Japanese airlosses over the last 20 turns Erik has lost 6100 planes. 6100 planes in 20 turns!

Allied losses are comparably moderate with "only" 2600. Even with the huge number of factories Erik has his pools cannot be endless. He simply shouldn�t be able to completely recover from losses like that. And there is a lot less Japanese planes on the map now according to recon then it was a month ago.

My fighter pools are still in decent shape. I will continue to push for as long as I can. Erik recovers faster then me and I have to keep the pressure and try to prevent him from presenting another wall of 3000 Fighters on CAP. Push push push!

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Post #: 3644

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 10:25:59 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Allied Airforce
______________________________________________________________________________

I feel reasonable comfortable right now with the pools. While I have seen Eriks number drop significantly all over the HI I have been going without pause for 10-15 turns now. I can keep up with the losses for now.

Erik has went "all in" in Korea and I have been able to ruthlessly pound his LRCAP with sweeps. This a couple of examples from last turn.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Osaka/Kyoto , at 109,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 2
A7M2 Sam x 5
J2M3 Jack x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 3
Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 2
Ki-100-I Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Nakadori-jima , at 101,57

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 15
Ki-84r Frank x 5

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 7 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

Admittedly the Sweeps are seldom THAT successful but from time to time they are. In the first Sweep we see perhaps an indication that Erik is in trouble. This is the first time in a long while I have encountered previously "obsolete" aircraft as the Zero and Tojo. Perhaps Erik really is starting to feel the pressure.

My landing in Korea has quite unexpectedly opened up the HI. Erik is currently operating 2/3rd of his air force either in offensive mission over Korea or in Naval strike role. I HAVE to use this opportunity. It won�t last forever. Either I will stabilize Korea or lose it. Whatever of those happens Eriks attention is now focused there and not on protecting the HI. Once the Korean situation changes he can focus an undivided air force in protecting the HI. Then I will run into a 500-1000 plane CAP instead of a 100 plane one.

I don�t want to make it sound like I�m nonchalant about my losses over the last month but at some point I will have to suffer losses. Erik has a very, very potent air force filled out with the very latest plane and very well trained pilots. Losses are unavoidable. In fighters alone he can outproduce me with 4:1. You don�t battle that without losses.

I also want to make it VERY clear that I don�t roleplay. I don�t see the losses as "thousands of dead" as one reader expressed himself in a PM. Its a computer game. Not the real war.

So for now I will continue to push as hard as I can. The Japanese air force is ever so slowly bending under allied pressure and being divided on three different objectives. I will never get such an opportunity again.

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Post #: 3645

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 12:08:56 PM

morejeffs

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Joined: 4/24/2013
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>I also want to make it VERY clear that I don�t roleplay. I don�t see the losses as "thousands of dead" as one reader expressed himself in a PM. Its a computer game. Not the real war.

In particular...When we are playing bumped up versions of Japan..Even scen 1, but with advanced R&D and PDU on....We are fighting a fantasy Japan (which certainly can make for a fairer more interesting game, but is certainly not....a realistic simulation based on actual capacity).

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Post #: 3646

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 5:48:30 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

4th June -45
______________________________________________________________________________

Got the replay back but not the turn yet.

------------------------
Korea
------------------------
Naval bombardments go in again. Uncertain if they managed to close the AF again. Probably, but not for certain.

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Moppo at 100,54

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 20 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
Seafire IIC: 3 damaged
Seafire IIC: 1 destroyed on ground
PBM-3D Mariner: 21 damaged
PBM-3D Mariner: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 22 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
Avenger II: 1 destroyed on ground

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Ise
BB Fuso

Allied ground losses:
1246 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 82 disabled
Engineers: 61 destroyed, 147 disabled
Guns lost 7 (2 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (6 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 46
Port hits 1

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Moppo at 100,54

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
PBM-3D Mariner: 11 damaged
PBM-3D Mariner: 1 destroyed on ground
Corsair II: 4 damaged
Corsair II: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
Seafire IIC: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Musashi
BB Yamato

Allied ground losses:
481 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 32 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 14
Port hits 1

It didn�t come entirely for free though.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 240 encounters mine field at Moppo (100,54)

Japanese Ships
PB Chosa Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
PB Hirota Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 6 encounters mine field at Moppo (100,54)

Japanese Ships
DD Kiyoshimo, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 106 encounters mine field at Moppo (100,54)

Japanese Ships
DD Hatsuzakura, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

The last one is later sunk by CV air.

About 500-700 Fighters also Swept Moppo during the day. No bombers. I bet they are all on Naval attack.

More worryingly I see about 500.000 moving towards my troops in Korea. Might be that Eriks supply situation wasn�t as bad as I had hoped. This is quite dangerous. I have 5500 AV including 2500 "Armor" AV but no good defensive terrain...I have to ponder this but it could be potentially VERY dangerous.

------------------------
Start bombing
------------------------
It went almost as planned. Almost.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 3
A6M5b Zero x 2
A7M2 Sam x 23
J2M5 Jack x 3
N1K2-J George x 12
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 73
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 3
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 13
Ki-61-Id Tony x 19
Ki-84a Frank x 2
Ki-100-I Tony x 21
Ki-102b Randy x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 45
P-38L Lightning x 22
P-51D Mustang x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 10 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed

Ki-83 factory hits 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 52 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 15
J2M5 Jack x 2
N1K2-J George x 9
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 51
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-61-Id Tony x 11
Ki-84a Frank x 1
Ki-100-I Tony x 16
Ki-102b Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 26
P-38L Lightning x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged

Ki-83 factory hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 5
J2M5 Jack x 1
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 32
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5
Ki-61-Id Tony x 5
Ki-100-I Tony x 8
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 10 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Can�t really complain though...Got some hits on the Ki-83 factory hopefully wrecking it!

------------------------
China
------------------------
A pretty good day here.

First our armor manages to catch up with the 3 former IDs that made up the relief force.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 82,53 (near Changsha)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 34004 troops, 581 guns, 1697 vehicles, Assault Value = 1656

Defending force 17328 troops, 153 guns, 20 vehicles, Assault Value = 308

Allied adjusted assault: 1398

Japanese adjusted defense: 215

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
9872 casualties reported
Squads: 453 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 233 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 75 (66 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Allied ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
255th Indian Tank Brigade
19th Motorised Division
50th Tank Brigade
18th Cavalry Regiment
254th Armoured Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
Gardner's Horse Regiment
Provisionl Tank Brigade
17th Motorised Division

Defending units:
63rd Division
35th Division
32nd Division

We also manage to clear out HK (I think all units were "wiped out by attrition")

quote:

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 83987 troops, 1591 guns, 1530 vehicles, Assault Value = 2585

Defending force 7632 troops, 73 guns, 33 vehicles, Assault Value = 27

Allied adjusted assault: 1497

Japanese adjusted defense: 81

Allied assault odds: 18 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1590 casualties reported
Squads: 63 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 52 destroyed, 102 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 19 (16 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (3 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

All in all a good day. But Korea is becoming a worry...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/10/2014 6:48:56 PM >

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Post #: 3647

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 6:15:34 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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At this point in the war, he is going to have to get high disruption on your troops to win, IMO. The combat power of your Marines alone should be enough to prevent you losing. He will need to shift hitting AF to attacking your troops. What amount of AA units did you bring with you?? Got any of those NZ AA brigades with you??

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Post #: 3648

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 6:46:33 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

At this point in the war, he is going to have to get high disruption on your troops to win, IMO. The combat power of your Marines alone should be enough to prevent you losing. He will need to shift hitting AF to attacking your troops. What amount of AA units did you bring with you?? Got any of those NZ AA brigades with you??

Actually NO.

Those guys are a BEAST to lift. So I had to chose between two of them or two IDs...they sure would be handy now. I actually feel pretty nervous right now. Then again going on the offensive presents Erik with a wide range of problems that I can perhaps take advantage of!

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Post #: 3649

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 6:52:18 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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You should pack some of the American AA units with the dual purpose 90mm guns (CD and AA). At least you can fire at the DD on bombardment runs.

I've learned multiple lessons about NOT having AA units with heavy AA guns be with any troops in clear terrain. Getting smacked hard, at times, with just medium AA guns (40mm Bofors or 37mm).

Japanese bombers coming in with over 100 each time above 10k and kill troops. Worse is the disruption goes over 80. Ouch!!

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 2/10/2014 7:56:58 PM >

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Post #: 3650

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 7:01:07 PM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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I do have coastal guns at Moppo but they refuse to shoot back. I guess Erik has them dialed in to a range outside my CD guns. Yeah, I do have some smaller AA units with me. Erik hasn�t bombed the troops much though. He is too busy keeping to airfield close and bomb ships.

We will see about this offensive. The Allied armor at this point is a beast and I�m not sure he can break through them. Its A LOT of armor.

But I�m still very, very nervous! Fun!

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Post #: 3651

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/10/2014 9:26:47 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

With the coastal guns are always crap shoot as to whether they fire or not, so many variables have to be right. The DP guns I think are less likely to fire at ships, but that are probably more help against a land assault.

An invasion like the one you pulled off really cries out for AA units to be included. I know - when you look at the shipping and have to decide what units to start cutting from the list, it's always ugly!

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Post #: 3652

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 5:54:01 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

5th June -45
______________________________________________________________________________

A pretty good day.

------------------------
Korea
------------------------
Recon is starting to clear the picture. Its indeed and "all out" attack in Korea. As I mentioned earlier this is a worry. Although I have considerable better troops then Erik there is half a MILLION Japanese in Korea right now.

Obviously this will be a matter of staying alive until the SU activates. Considering the number of Japanese here I guess Erik left Manchuria completely unguarded. So I should be able to get down to Korea in 3-4 weeks. That is 3 months from now. So how do I stay alive in 3 months. That is certainly something to ponder...

Erik seems to have forgotten the 1st rule of Japanese army regulations though..."don�t find yourself in a clear hex within 4E range". I�ll see if I can get a good lick in.

First things first. Erik didn�t bombard last night as he was probably rearming. Considering the gazillion ASW TFs are now back in the area the BBs will come again. So its time to deal with them. I�m going to send in the 8 fast BBs to meet them. It will be tricky to get it right. I will have to make sure the get out before daylight...I�m going to set them to Full speed 1 hex East of Moppo and then retire with a waypoint way out West along the Chinese coast.

Before them I�ll obviously send in some smaller TFs. Some Clevelands and Fletchers. I hope it will work. I still have 7 slow BBs for surface protection of the CV Fleet. I�ll also keep back the CAs as I don�t want them to run into the BBs. Moonlight is low which will help me.

Thoughts? Better ideas?

------------------------
Air war
------------------------
Allied Sweeps hit all over the HI and Korea shooting down 118 Japanese fighters for 38 own losses. How long can he take this?? Jacks and Sams take the biggest hit.

------------------------
China
------------------------
We have begun bombarding the Canton stack with good effect. I wonder if they are completely out of supply now?

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,55 (near Pingsiang)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4110 troops, 270 guns, 306 vehicles, Assault Value = 2099

Defending force 125780 troops, 1272 guns, 702 vehicles, Assault Value = 3595

Japanese ground losses:
579 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Not much else happening in China right now. The CMA will take a shot at Canton. Forts are probably too high though.

------------------------
Strat bombing
------------------------
The fires at Osaka is still burning but I�ll admit I�m a little bit disappointed in the result considering the big fires. Still 1100 VPs netted so far. There are still 14.000 fires burning.

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Post #: 3653

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 7:00:48 AM

Encircled

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From: Northern England
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This is fascinating

He's gambling all on his ability to smash your invasion

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Post #: 3654

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 7:05:41 AM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Naval plan for 6th of June -45
______________________________________________________________________________

As I mentioned before the naval side of the game is not my strong point. This is the rough idea. I�ll set the destinations of the Fast BBs as indicated and then a waypoint far to the west. I hope this will allow them to withdraw back outside LBA strike range. Supposedly that should make them stop at the waypoint for a phase right? It works sometimes but on many occasions I have had TFs just power on ahead towards their home port. Any ideas on how to make certain they stop at the waypoint (under CV cover).

Both TFs are set to "Full speed", "Direct" and "Absolute" with a react range of "0". I don�t want to risk a reaction eating up OPS and not withdraw before morning.

The smaller TFs (CLs being the biggest ship) will power on one hex further hopefully clearing a path through the millions of smaller ASW TFs. I will use the same setting for them but they will spread out to four or five different hexes and go 1 hex further the the BBs. This is hope will have them "clear a path" through the smaller TFs before the BBs.

I havn�t sent the turn to Erik yet so any input or advice is welcome. This kind of stuff is definitively outside my comfort zone.

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Post #: 3655

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 9:31:33 AM

Captain Cruft

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From: England
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With ops like this be very careful that your combat ships don't end up passing through any of the big fort hexes i.e. Fusan, Tsushima & Iki-shima. All three of these have guns which can sink BBs.

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Post #: 3656

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 9:33:19 AM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Ouff, turn is off to Erik now. I did as I wrote in the post above. I�m mostly worried about the BBs ending up outside CV cover in the morning. Or get "stuck" in Indian country. Have seen that happen on more occasions then I care to remember.

Fingers crossed. Due to fuel constraints I could only send in 3 smaller TFs. 2 DDs and a British/US CL force.

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Post #: 3657

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 9:51:44 AM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

With ops like this be very careful that your combat ships don't end up passing through any of the big fort hexes i.e. Fusan, Tsushima & Iki-shima. All three of these have guns which can sink BBs.

Thanks for the warning! Didn�t know that.

Man I�m nervous right now. Especially for BB2 which had less fuel then I had liked. I�m worried they will stop and refuel the DDs eating up OPs.

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Post #: 3658

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 9:53:43 AM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is fascinating

He's gambling all on his ability to smash your invasion

Indeed, if he succeeds he might even have time to return to the defensive positions in Manchuria (which he must have completely emptied). So I need to survive here until the SU activates pinning the troops.

The mission went from conquest to survival in a heartbeat! Very tense.

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Post #: 3659

RE: Battle for Korea - 2/11/2014 9:59:59 AM

ny59giants

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Joined: 1/10/2005
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My understanding and use of Full Speed means your warships will move their full capability in EACH phase. Thus, ships like Fletchers can go 11 hexes at night and then another 11 for day movement (depending on how many op oints they have left). Earlier in my war I was able to have them just off Cooktown, run over to Milne Bay at night and be back under LRCAP by daylight. Most of your Fast BBs will go their 7 (spd 28) to 9 (spd 33) hexes during each phase.

Waypoints are only for use in getting to Destination hex, not in retreat from that hex back to home port UNLESS at the bottom of the three Waypoints you click on "Return Same Route" to change to Yes.

So you 'may' run into his BB TF, but I doubt they end up anywhere near what you want them to be at come daylight. They could be anywhere from Korea to Okinawa, depending on max speed and op points left from any night action.

Other players, Am I wrong in my understand of Full Speed and Waypoints?? I know about not using waypoints for BB TF, but I thought they worked fine for SC TF.

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Post #: 3660