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RE: KB in the Celebes Sea!

 
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RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 3:04:16 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I seem to recall saying something about his CVs hunting reinforcements .... one of the few times I guessed right!

River crossing in combat mode in Burma - likely 4 to 5 miles per day, less if the stack has been bombed a lot and has low morale.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1441
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 6:02:23 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I seem to recall saying something about his CVs hunting reinforcements .... one of the few times I guessed right!

River crossing in combat mode in Burma - likely 4 to 5 miles per day, less if the stack has been bombed a lot and has low morale.


Yep you certainly hit the nail on the head with your guess. I should have listened to you! Next time I insist that you insist you are right!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1442
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 6:31:21 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		How did he manage to get so good returns on your strike(s)? Experience, range, aircraft type, fragmentation?

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

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Post #: 1443
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 6:35:36 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

How did he manage to get so good returns on your strike(s)? Experience, range, aircraft type, fragmentation?


Do you mean my strikes on his CVs?

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Post #: 1444
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 7:09:04 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Yeah, sorry, that wasn't clear at all....

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

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Post #: 1445
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 7:22:46 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Yeah, sorry, that wasn't clear at all....


NP!

Well, we are using the BETA so fragmentation are horrible. So that counts for a lot. Range was 8.

Most of my TB and DBs were between 50 and 60 EXP and at least 70 in relevant skill. Escorts were minimum 60 EXP and minimum 70 in air/def.

Here is an example of an strike:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Gorontalo at 72,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
A6M5b Zero x 30
A6M5c Zero x 10

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 27
TBM-1C Avenger x 36

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 22 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Unryu
CV Amagi

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo


This is a typical strike. Never seen such horrible results throughout the day. Had the roles been reversed my CAP would have chewed up most of his escort and most if not all TBs would have gotten through.

EDIT: What I mean about horrible is that his CAP skipped my escorts and went straight for the bombers. Never seen that happen before. It did so on all escorted strikes.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 7/27/2013 8:13:42 PM >

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 1446
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 8:37:36 PM   
jonreb31


Posts: 714
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline 		Ouch, while that must have been a painful replay to watch at the same time you don't see this sort of thing in any other game. Your opponent made a daring gamble and it defied all odds and he didn't have to pay the price we would have expected.

While things might have been different if you had fully prepared for this possibility that really is a weak CAP on his part-- it's a bit surprising at least a few crippled CVs isn't part of the results. That's not something he can afford, especially if he wants to offer at least one more major naval battle to halt your advance.

It's not a pretty sight and the newspapers won't like it but this shouldn't slow you down too much. You're definitely in a position to take advantage of the situation.

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Post #: 1447
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/27/2013 9:16:02 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Did he have his CAP layered? There must be a reason that your escorts didn't manage to get in between the CAP and the bombers..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to jonreb31)
Post #: 1448
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 8:04:07 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonReb

Ouch, while that must have been a painful replay to watch at the same time you don't see this sort of thing in any other game. Your opponent made a daring gamble and it defied all odds and he didn't have to pay the price we would have expected.

While things might have been different if you had fully prepared for this possibility that really is a weak CAP on his part-- it's a bit surprising at least a few crippled CVs isn't part of the results. That's not something he can afford, especially if he wants to offer at least one more major naval battle to halt your advance.

It's not a pretty sight and the newspapers won't like it but this shouldn't slow you down too much. You're definitely in a position to take advantage of the situation.


It was pretty hurtful to watch yes! Mostly for my pride.

I was also very surprised to find the extremely weak CAP. Its almost like he intentionally put everything escort heavy. Either he must have been dead sure of my CVs location or he took a huge chance. It will be very interesting to see what he does next turn. I´m guessing he will move back. But I planned for him staying as best as I could. I pretty much shot my LBA strike capacity.

It was a good lesson and I will spend the next turn changing a lot of things!

(in reply to jonreb31)
Post #: 1449
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 8:15:45 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Did he have his CAP layered? There must be a reason that your escorts didn't manage to get in between the CAP and the bombers..


Here is the complete CR. This one is even more odd considering the number of escorts. Again his planes went almost straight for the bombers. I have no idea how he does this!

I want to be able to come even close to this. Despite having a 200-300 plane CAP up I very, very seldom get to his bombers if they are properly escorted.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Gorontalo at 72,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 20
A6M5b Zero x 58
A6M5c Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 175
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 5 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 17 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Soryu-1 with A6M5b Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
Taiho-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Unryu-1 with A6M5b Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Amagi-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
Katsuragi-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
Kasagi-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
Aso-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Ikoma-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes


quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Gorontalo at 72,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
A6M5b Zero x 30
A6M5c Zero x 10

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 27
TBM-1C Avenger x 36

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 22 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Unryu
CV Amagi

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
Soryu-1 with A6M5b Zero (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 6 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiyo-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 1 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Taiho-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Unryu-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Amagi-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 5 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Katsuragi-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
Kasagi-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Aso-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Ikoma-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers


Looks like he had everything at 10k besides one group on 9k.

These are the only two strikes that got escorted out of 8 strikes. I have seen this a lot in the BETA. The escorts coordinate in one big chuck that very randomly attaches to any given fragment. Can be a big one or a 1 plane one.

I like the new strike routines in the BETA but I think the way escorts works needs some tweaking. But with the hostility on this forum by certain members I have given up on suggesting things. Or even trying to discuss things. Its a shame as this forum wasn´t always so.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 1450
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 10:32:03 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Operation Payback?

In the DEI area Erik has been hovering a big BB TF together with a CA TF within strike range of Babar. With the added AirHQ I got in at Babar last turn I hope to get some shots in. Perhaps I can exact a slight revenge for the Celebes Sea humiliation.

The TFs has been hovering there for 2 turns in a row now. Fingers crossed. Havn´t gotten the turn back so don´t know if it worked or not.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1451
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 11:50:55 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Looks like the advanced warning and superior Climbing ability of the A6Ms put them above your raid enabling them to ignore your fighters... Probably crack pilots too..

My experience with the allies is limited but while playing Japan my escorts usually took terrible losses protecting the bombers.. but they did protect them.. I used special squadrons with 50 experience, 70 airskill pilots for that.

You could try going in at 2000 meters with your torpedo bombers. That might lower the advanced warning time and it doesn't change anything for the disadvantage your escorts fight at.

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

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Post #: 1452
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 12:33:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Looks like the advanced warning and superior Climbing ability of the A6Ms put them above your raid enabling them to ignore your fighters... Probably crack pilots too..

My experience with the allies is limited but while playing Japan my escorts usually took terrible losses protecting the bombers.. but they did protect them.. I used special squadrons with 50 experience, 70 airskill pilots for that.

You could try going in at 2000 meters with your torpedo bombers. That might lower the advanced warning time and it doesn't change anything for the disadvantage your escorts fight at.


Thank you! That might be it. Just a bit baffled as I have never seen this before. I have the same setup of "freshly trained" escort pilots while the ones on CAP are the really good ones.

While going to 1000-2000 meters work I don´t feel very comfortable doing so. It works too well imo as detection times goes so low an intercept becomes almost impossible.

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Post #: 1453
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 12:47:42 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Panzer Corps

A bit off topic here. With my game vs Erik grinding to an almost complete stop lately after doing 3-4 turn per day I now find myself with a pretty big chunk of spare time to fill out. I´ve been looking for a singel player "beer and pretzels" kind of game. The one you can fire up for 30 minutes and then walk away from. My eyes fell on Panzer Corps Allied assault. Its pretty cheap (20ish Euro). Anyone of you guys tried it or have any other suggestion for a game?

Still no turn from Erik. Getting pretty annoyed as he has been online all morning and I asked him to upload the replay as soon as it was ready. Even more so as Ida now has been sleeping for 2 hours in which time I could both have watched the replay AND updated the AAR. Now instead I will have to rush it whenever the opportunity arises during the day. I asked the same thing yesterday but received the replay 14 () hours after it was generated. Bah.

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Post #: 1454
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/28/2013 1:53:28 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Mr Jocke,

Looking at his CAP settings, I wonder if you will need to place some of your Hellcats below your DB & TB. My understanding is it is best to get a single massive strike by placing all (F, DB, TB) at the same altitude. I think 12,000 is a good height for them. Then, maybe some of those fighters (1/4 to 1/3) down to 9,000 or 10,000 to engage the fighters as they climb up to get your bombers.

FB with torpedoes - Any luck with these planes in reaching out further than the Avengers and maybe even the Beauforts to get at his large warships?? Set them at 2k with a few groups of B-25 attack bombers at 1k along with some fighters at maybe 3k. Just an idea.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1455
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/29/2013 7:48:47 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Mr Jocke,

Looking at his CAP settings, I wonder if you will need to place some of your Hellcats below your DB & TB. My understanding is it is best to get a single massive strike by placing all (F, DB, TB) at the same altitude. I think 12,000 is a good height for them. Then, maybe some of those fighters (1/4 to 1/3) down to 9,000 or 10,000 to engage the fighters as they climb up to get your bombers.

FB with torpedoes - Any luck with these planes in reaching out further than the Avengers and maybe even the Beauforts to get at his large warships?? Set them at 2k with a few groups of B-25 attack bombers at 1k along with some fighters at maybe 3k. Just an idea.


That might be worth a try. I´m not sure the model works that way though? Can´t get any worse though!

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Post #: 1456
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/29/2013 8:00:01 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I asked Erik again midday yesterday for the replay to which he replied 8 hours later that he hadn´t had time to run it yet. Funny because the timestamp says it was last modified earlier that morning...

My little OP didn´t work out very well. The Beauforts took off in 3 fragments but for some reason only 3 Hellcats took of for escort while 45 stayed at base. Love this game sometimes.

Of the attack bombers from Darwin only the 15 Navy Mitchells took off while 70 bombers decided they didn´t want to. Ah well, at least we got a torp in the Nagato.

KB withdrew slightly to the west towards Balikpapan but still within strike range. If he moves into the Celebes Sea next turn we will probably have another CV battle. If he stays in position it will be another 2 days before I can strike. With some creative tinkering we now have 1464 CV planes.

Proper update with screens tonight hopefully!


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1457
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/30/2013 5:06:33 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Sorry for the lack of updates. Maria has started working this week so I have full responsibility for Ida. And with the usual perfect timing of things (screw you Murphy! ) Ida came down with a bad fever sunday night. Seem to have given in now though.

Only one turn done in the meantime so I´m not lagging too badly. I´ll try to get an update up tonight. Not much action. But it will be next turn!


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1458
Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/30/2013 8:15:41 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		11th-12th September -44

Operation Payback
This backfired a bit. The sweeps didn´t suck in his LRCAP and only 3 Hellcats of roughly 50 took off from the base. I have no idea why. The lack of feedback on such instances are really annoying.

We did manage to get a torp in the Nagato though:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Wetar at 71,113

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 22
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 28

Allied aircraft
Beaufort VIII x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort VIII: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
Beaufort VIII: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 1


With some escorts we might have caused some damage here. The loss of almost 50 Beauforts for a TT in a BB is not worth the price. 26 pilots lost.

Celebes sea
Looks like Erik withdrew the KB towards Balikpapan. I lost track of his CVs. His incursion here cost me 3 days. Its clear that with the BETA its almost impossible for LBA to take on CVs due to the fragmentation. The strikes simply get chewed up by the CAP. So I decided to not try again using TB/DB but instead 2Es. They will stand a lot better chance against the CAP even when coming in small packages. I did some fiddling and formed a "anti KB" force of 200 Attack bombers. This had the added bonus of freeing up 200 extremely well trained bomber pilots. I will also use this force to clear out any enemy shipping within reach from Cotabato.

Manado will likely fall tomorrow. I landed the support troops of 40th ID 3 days ago triggering an auto bombardment. Erik has since then failed to turn them off. Thank you!

This is the latest Jap bombardment.

quote:

Ground combat at Manado (75,99)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 10431 troops, 101 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 441

Defending force 38520 troops, 684 guns, 1090 vehicles, Assault Value = 1331

Japanese ground losses:
312 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd Ind.Infantry Brigade
80th Infantry Brigade
78th Infantry Brigade
109th Division
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Gohoku JNAF Base Force
103rd AA Regiment
51st Base Force

Defending units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
40th Infantry Division
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion
93rd Infantry Division
706th Tank Battalion
711th Tank Battalion
1st Marine Division
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
148th Field Artillery Battalion
163rd USA Base Force
156th USA Base Force
2nd Medium Regiment


My troops have recovered somewhat from the last attack so I ordered a deliberate attack tomorrow. Even if successful especially the 93rd ID and 1st USMC will be out of combat for a long time. Tanks should be good to go though.

Burma
Jap forces are in full flight. They abandoned Rangoon and I should secure it next turn. The race is on to see if I can inflict some damages on his troops before they cross the river SE of Pegu. My leading elements entered Pegu this turn and the rest will join tomorrow.

Question
Should I risk an attack at Pegu in two days with 8000 AV taking on the forts. Or is it better to wait for my other stack to catch up with its 5500 AV and risk a shock attack over a river into the wooden hex SE of Pegu? I´m leaning towards risking it at Pegu. Eriks AV is estimated to be around 5000 Thoughts?

Allies resume the offensive
I´m now set up to continue the push. Getting Cotabato to level 9 was the key to support invasions via LBA in the PI archipelago. I have a string of targets set up and will start pushing again with the first of many invasions in 2 days. Tomorrow will hopefully be a very busy day with what I hope will be a nasty blow to the empire. Stay tuned for a surprise tomorrow...

Erik will spot one of my invasion fleets tomorrow heading for Yap. I had hoped to hide my CVs for a little while yet but I need the CV cover. In a quite risky attempt to hide my true CV strenght I left one of the CVE TFs behind. Judging by our email correspondence after the lalaland 8 hex strike I think Erik believes I´m a lot weaker than I am. I want to maintain that illusion and hopefully draw him to battle. We still have just over 1000 planes. I have about 80% of the fighters on CAP. Erik will most likely not throw everything at this as he lacks bases in the vicinity.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Payback pt.2!







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 7/30/2013 8:22:36 PM >

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Post #: 1459
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/30/2013 9:11:52 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		The plan to attack Pegu depends on a couple of things.
Do you have any indication how much AV he has there now?
Can you estimate fort levels from the casualties inflicted by ground bombing [i.e. high forts = few casualties].

Speed is important to hit the newly arrived troops before they recover, but shock attacks into high levels of forts could be devastating.

Then there is the rule about automatic shock attack if 1/3 of your force is not across the river, and that for each hex side you attack across the river the 1/3 rule applies.

All in all I believe that if you can combine the 13,000 AV into one crossing point and move them all simultaneously, losses will be minimized.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1460
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 1:03:28 AM   
House Stark

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 4/30/2011
Status: offline 		I'd go for the deliberate attack on Pegu. The defensive bonus might be a little better than the forest terrain, but a failed deliberate attack is a lot less risky. Bad rolls on a shock attack across a river into defensive terrain...that could set you back for a long time.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1461
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 2:21:50 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark

I'd go for the deliberate attack on Pegu. The defensive bonus might be a little better than the forest terrain, but a failed deliberate attack is a lot less risky. Bad rolls on a shock attack across a river into defensive terrain...that could set you back for a long time.


I agree. With your superior unit stats, 8k AV against 5k...even with forts 5 it won't set you back a lot. If you have time, I'd bomb or bombard first to check casualty rates and guesstimate forts. If you don't have time, I'd probably risk it. If you somehow get 1:1 or better, I think it would be worth it. Though take what I say with a big grain of sea salt... I still have a lot to learn.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 7/31/2013 2:22:09 AM >

(in reply to House Stark)
Post #: 1462
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 6:16:30 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks guys!

I did a naval bombardment earlier indicating high levels of forts. I´m guessing either 5 or 6 but it might be lower! No place in Burma have had higher than 6 and Prome is not a good defensive position so Erik might have decided not to build it too much. But anything lower then 5 is probably hoping for too much.

I decided to try at Pegu. Even if I do fail, a deliberate attack feels a lot better then a shock attack across the river and losses on my side will be less severe than a failed shock attack. I don´t need to kick him out or capture the base. I just want to weaken his stack as much as possible hopefully causing at least the same amount of damage I sustain. So doing a deliberate attack here does hopefully helps with the inevitable river crossing that will have to occur.

And this certainly might help:

quote:

Defender: disruption(-), supply(-)



(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1463
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 8:36:12 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Here is a comparison of the frontlines at 1/44 and 9/44.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1464
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 8:46:15 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Perhaps not the best dates to compare but because of a disc crash a few month ago I lost all the old saves. The only old one I could find was from May -43. Its clear though that the enormous IJN dominance early game after the disastrous USN defeats has been reduced quite a bit and the IJN has suffered in the last 18 months.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1465
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 11:43:12 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Don't get hung up so much on raw AV.

What amount of troops don't have '43 devices?? Hopefully, very few to none.

What about your HQs?? Do you have both a Corp and Command HQs prepped for Pegu??

Have your recently double checked your major LCUs leaders to make sure your generals have not died in the jungle??

How much armor do you have in your attack??

How much disruption does his troops have??

These are things I consider more important than just AV vs AV comparisons.

Rant over!

_____________________________


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1466
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/31/2013 12:15:19 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Panzer Corps

A bit off topic here. With my game vs Erik grinding to an almost complete stop lately after doing 3-4 turn per day I now find myself with a pretty big chunk of spare time to fill out. I´ve been looking for a singel player "beer and pretzels" kind of game. The one you can fire up for 30 minutes and then walk away from. My eyes fell on Panzer Corps Allied assault. Its pretty cheap (20ish Euro). Anyone of you guys tried it or have any other suggestion for a game?

Still no turn from Erik. Getting pretty annoyed as he has been online all morning and I asked him to upload the replay as soon as it was ready. Even more so as Ida now has been sleeping for 2 hours in which time I could both have watched the replay AND updated the AAR. Now instead I will have to rush it whenever the opportunity arises during the day. I asked the same thing yesterday but received the replay 14 () hours after it was generated. Bah.


I have Panzer Corps, plus Afrika Corps, and the DLC. But not Allied Corps as of yet.

Its a lot of fun (think the old Panzer General for the basic game), and the designers have gotten better at scenario building as the series progressed, so I would expect Allied Corps to be the best of the whole bunch

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1467
RE: Allies resumes the offensive! - 7/31/2013 12:49:55 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Don't get hung up so much on raw AV.
What amount of troops don't have '43 devices?? Hopefully, very few to none.


All US troops have '44 devices and all other including the Ozzies have '43.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
What about your HQs?? Do you have both a Corp and Command HQs prepped for Pegu??


Command HQ 35 Prepp (recently switched over from Toungoo), Corp HQ 100.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Have your recently double checked your major LCUs leaders to make sure your generals have not died in the jungle??


Not since the initial attack. But I will do so again. Have 750 PPs available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
How much armor do you have in your attack??


About 600 worth of AV. 400 Heavy tanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
How much disruption does his troops have??


About half his troops are severely disrupted after coming down from Toungoo. The other half is probably in good shape.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
These are things I consider more important than just AV vs AV comparisons.

Rant over!



Yes sir!

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1468
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/31/2013 12:54:53 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

I have Panzer Corps, plus Afrika Corps, and the DLC. But not Allied Corps as of yet.

Its a lot of fun (think the old Panzer General for the basic game), and the designers have gotten better at scenario building as the series progressed, so I would expect Allied Corps to be the best of the whole bunch


Thanks for the review! Sounds very good. I think I´m going to buy it right away!

(in reply to catwhoorg)
Post #: 1469
RE: KB in the Celebes Sea! - 7/31/2013 5:35:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		13th September -44

Just a few short notes as Erik uploaded the replay for me but I havn´t gotten the turn yet.

Somehow the Yap invasion went bonkers and the ships ended up 1 hex short. Crap. No damage to any ships though as only 8 Emilies attacked. That will probably change tomorrow though...

Celebes Sea

Manado managed to hold out for another turn. That will hopefully change tomorrow!

quote:

Ground combat at Manado (75,99)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 38628 troops, 684 guns, 1090 vehicles, Assault Value = 1339

Defending force 18896 troops, 195 guns, 28 vehicles, Assault Value = 405

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 675

Japanese adjusted defense: 335

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1420 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 87 disabled
Non Combat: 33 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 17 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 21 (7 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
399 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Vehicles lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
93rd Infantry Division
40th Infantry Division
706th Tank Battalion
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion
1st Marine Division
711th Tank Battalion
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
148th Field Artillery Battalion
156th USA Base Force
163rd USA Base Force
2nd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
80th Infantry Brigade
2nd Ind.Infantry Brigade
78th Infantry Brigade
109th Division
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Gohoku JNAF Base Force
103rd AA Regiment
51st Base Force


Burma
Arrrrghhhh! Erik luck continue to hold!! For the second day in a row my air strikes rain in. This is very, very bad as it mean he isn't slowed down.

Also my troops failed to attack Rangoon. So I probably forgot to tell them to. That is another day lost. Stupid!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1470
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