Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, I posted in the Tech forum. I know exactly what will happen now so I took precautions and green buttoned two people in advance!

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, I posted in the Tech forum. I know exactly what will happen now so I took precautions and green buttoned two people in advance!

You could always bomb the snot out of their destination base . . .

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I understand your frustration, the game engine seems to be allowing something that is not realistic at all.

I am however a little puzzled by all of this for a variety of reasons....

1. As an Allied player I can airlift men with rifles - but that's about all. Men with rifles are not much good, is there a qualitative difference in the Japanese airlift capacity - do their planes have huge airlift capacity to move heavy equipment? Is this realistic? If they are just moving men with rifles then they have to leave their heavy equipment in situ and this should degrade their ability to fight....
2. How many transport planes do the Japanese have? If its more than the Allies then where is the justification for this?
3. If heavy planes are doing long journeys then there should be very significant ops degredation - in terms of maintenance, ops losses etc. If this is not happening then there has to be something wrong.

Following the debate elsewhere the issue seemed to be focused on could fighters intercept transports and at what range. The above factors also seem to be pertinent.

I'm not seeing the same in my 1944 game - maybe its happening, but I'm not seeing the effects. My Jap opponent does not seem able to airlift in this way - but maybe the context or his play is different. I'm certainly aware that a base I recently captured is only getting men with rifles delivered by air.....all their heavy equipment is sitting in storage sheds at the airlift base.

Roger

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ORIGINAL: paullus99

That really stinks - I hadn't realized that the transport functions were so off as to allow a Japanese player to not only pull out tens of thousands of troops within a few days, but to keep doing it over and over and over again without much in the way of losses....since when was the Japanese air transport fleet larger than the AMC that we have today?

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

If transports of the 2nd WW era can lift heavy stuff then there is something seriously wrong - this should not be possible - never mind the lift capacity, how do they actually get the stuff on board?

There also should be serious ops losses and downtime for maintenance.....

Roger

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Slaps face in amazement........

Roger

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ORIGINAL: HansBolter

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

If transports of the 2nd WW era can lift heavy stuff then there is something seriously wrong - this should not be possible - never mind the lift capacity, how do they actually get the stuff on board?

There also should be serious ops losses and downtime for maintenance.....

Roger

Been wrong for while now Roger. The game is supposed to limit nothing larger than a 37mm AT gun by airlift.

I have routinely used the Dutch flying boats to air transport the entire Dutch cavalry (armored cars and all) to Koepang. Combine the ability to airlift anything with imperviousness to interception and even Hitler could have won at Stalingrad. One can only hope it will be addressed.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, I don´t think anyone realises this. I have had a hunch for a long time something is not right. But sadly its not possible to question game workings on the forum anymore. I have given up on that at least. So I rant here in my AAR instead!

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

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ORIGINAL: HansBolter

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ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

If transports of the 2nd WW era can lift heavy stuff then there is something seriously wrong - this should not be possible - never mind the lift capacity, how do they actually get the stuff on board?

There also should be serious ops losses and downtime for maintenance.....

Roger

Been wrong for while now Roger. The game is supposed to limit nothing larger than a 37mm AT gun by airlift.

I have routinely used the Dutch flying boats to air transport the entire Dutch cavalry (armored cars and all) to Koepang. Combine the ability to airlift anything with imperviousness to interception and even Hitler could have won at Stalingrad. One can only hope it will be addressed.

Have you reported this to Michael? He might be able to fix it.

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I wrote a long post on why this whole matter is very much to your benefit and not detriment, but of course the server ate it and of course this one time I didn't pre-save.

So I'll just say, take a look at what this cost you versus what you got. You are far, far ahead of where you'd be if you had been forced to fight for the base. He handed it to you in exchange for taking damaged troops to a shrinking rear at very high cost in transport supplies, pilot fatigue, ops losses, and the VPs he handed you without a fight.

You gained time, the most valuable commodity.

You job is not to crush, kill, destroy. It's to get in range of the HI and remove Japan's means to resist. Any time he gives you forward real estate without a fight, take it!

I hope you don't lose this game over this issue. I hope it will be looked at, but it's small beer in the greater scheme of things. He's weaker now with more troops at a low-supply Manila. You're stronger with the VPs on Mindanao and troops that aren't beat up taking the base. Move on and hope he next evacs everybody to Formosa.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Thanks guys!

I asked Erik if he had done some "creative fiddling" to get more Float transports or transports in general. He says he hasn´t and that it can´t be done so this ability exists for all Japanese players.

He and I of course have wildly differing views on this. He think that he is paying for the lifted out troops with aircraft lost to OPS (only 1-2 per turn at best) and supply used to do it. I´m certainly not agreeing with this.

This cost must be but a fragment of what it would cost to rebuild the unit from scratch. He is saving HI, PPs, Supply and lots and lots of time by getting them out by air. And most importantly his units keep their EXP. I don´t know the total cost and time for rebuilding a Japanese ID. But it can´t be equal to having 20-50% flown out by a unstoppable airbridge and then filled out again.

When a units is completely destroyed it has to be bought back with PPs. This process also takes 90-120 days I think? Then the unit has to be filled out and retrained. This takes months. A 90 EXP unit does not return a 90 EXP unit. It returns with the national value. 40? for US troops I think. Moral also starts around that number. I´m guessing he is cutting the time to get them back in combat by at least 2-3 months and that is not taking into account the time to get EXP up which can´t be fully trained back.

This also does not take into account the massive allied effort that has been spent over the last few months trying to avoid just this. I would say my bomber force has spent 80% of its missions trying to keep airfields and troops suppressed to annihilate them at Mindanao. 3 months wasted and undone in 4 days.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister
That doesn´t sit very well with me.

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ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

This isn't a criticism of my opponent Greyjoy, and I haven't brought it up, but he's been doing the same thing in our game.

The Japanese 56th Division was completely isolated at Port Moresby; didn't matter, because it was airlifted out to Aitape, where it was defeated.

It was then airlifted out via boat, refreshed, then airlifted into Kaimana (no airstrip), when I landed there.

It will probably be airlifted out again, where I will have to fight it a 4th time at some other base

All of this done by flying boat, and all under an Allied LRCAP from less than 3 hexes

Greyjoy converted all IJN transport units to the Emily Transport, which gives him somewhere around 70-90 operational at any one time; plenty to lift a division in a few days, and some left over to provide supply to isolated garrisons

It is very easy to airlift. Greyjoy has airlifted out probably well over 300,000 troops that were isolated, with no hope of reinforcement by sea, using only flying boats. The capacity of the Emily Boat is enough to lift howitzers and all but the heaviest pieces of artillery and tanks.

A solution would be to look into the CAP routines, to see if intercepting transports can be easier.

IRL, I would think intercepting an Emily Transport attempting to load troops from base is a pretty easy target

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Bullwinkle,

You are most probably right and I will most probably see that eventually.

But right now it just feels... "meh". Erik want to continue and thinks this is just a "small thing". I wonder if he would have thought the same if I had airlifted out the entire US garrison at the PI to Java in 42 or something. And he had to sit by and just watch.

He is hinting at that I might feel low because of the losses I suffered at the Marianas recently. Lol? 1 CVE, 1 DE, 2 PFs, 4 Tankers and a couple of xAKs. Really?