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RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/7/2013 7:09:19 PM

lewdog64

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Why the heck does a new player have to shell over $100+us to buy a current game, that's ridiculous. $40us is allot for a 3 year old game if you just get the main exec. I would like to try this game, but not if i have to shell out $100+us to do so. Even with the sale to buy a current version (with the upcoming expansion) it will be $100+us. I don't know who approved this pricing model but they flunked marketing.

(in reply to Mansen)

Post #: 151

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 1:52:33 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lewdog64

Why the heck does a new player have to shell over $100+us to buy a current game, that's ridiculous. $40us is allot for a 3 year old game if you just get the main exec. I would like to try this game, but not if i have to shell out $100+us to do so. Even with the sale to buy a current version (with the upcoming expansion) it will be $100+us. I don't know who approved this pricing model but they flunked marketing.

I'm not sure your analysis is entirely reasonable.

Hours of play per dollar. DW ranks quite high, as opposed to most mainstream games (with a few notable exceptions - Skyrim seems endless, for example). If you consider the price, you should as well consider the amount of time you are likely to spend playing it. I have far too many games which I grew bored of or were dismally disappointed with (regardless of their stellar demos), where the cost per hour played was atrocious.
"3 year old game" - there have been 2 expansions and a third coming soon. To accept your argument that it's 3 years old, is to say that World of Warcraft is 8, nearly 9 years old and anyone who plays such an ancient game is clearly out of their mind.
"flunked marketing" - it's a niche market with limited appeal. Higher prices apply to any product that appeals to a niche market. I don't think it's rational to assert that Matrix marketing bods "flunked marketing", as they're running a (ostensibly) profitable company with a solid reputation in their market niche. Seems like they're doing something right - for a company run by a bunch of marketing failures.

I'm not saying that Matrix is perfect. I have some pet peeves with how it markets and advertises its products. But they're turning a profit and surviving in an industry which is about as cut-throat as it gets. So I'll bow to the evidence and try to keep my whingeing to a dull roar.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/8/2013 2:00:31 AM >

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Post #: 152

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 3:07:08 AM

necaradan666

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Not really..

Most of the posts here are not comparing to new AAA games, they're compared to similar space sim/4x types of games. Personally I'd never again buy a game that doesn't play for many months. Bought Gears of War at midnight release finished the campaign by 8am, never looked at another Gears article.
Skyrim is however a good example, it's long enough to compare the play value equally but is available with expansions at a significantly lesser cost than when it came out. (if not already, soon)

Heh, I'd also say anyone that is still playing WoW is obviously ootm

and I'd believe it if you said one of Matrix Games war sims was niche, but I don't know.. everyone and their grandmother seems to be developing or selling a Space Sim/4x type of game recently.

I don't really care how much they are making, but I did have a concern about not buying a game that was never clearly awesome from available information because I couldn't justify their prices comparatively with all my other similar purchases. Even when I did purchase cause I felt the risk was better than wondering if it was great as some folks said, I still kinda felt sick for a moment when hitting 'proceed to checkout'

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 153

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 5:24:55 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666
Skyrim is however a good example, it's long enough to compare the play value equally but is available with expansions at a significantly lesser cost than when it came out. (if not already, soon)

Skyrim is hardly a "niche product", and can't be fairly used as a point for price comparison. I only used it as an example to illustrate my point that the value of a game should include a consideration of the number of hours it will entertain. Compared to many gaming offerings on the market, DW is incredibly cheap per-hour-of-play.

They've released all the Skyrim expansions that they're going to. Aside from bug-fixing, Bethseda is closing the curtain on Skyrim and moving onto other things. (ref here)

quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666
and I'd believe it if you said one of Matrix Games war sims was niche, but I don't know.. everyone and their grandmother seems to be developing or selling a Space Sim/4x type of game recently.

The 4X genre has had more entrants to the market than is usual of late... but most of them are garbage. Perhaps you recall Legends of Pegasus? Or the extremely lukewarm reception of Star Drive? Yes, there are more 4X games out there than normal. But don't mistake quantity for quality.

Few publishers are willing to finance a 4X game, and when they do, most only provide the most anemic of funding. If I see a 4X game that's worth buying, I'll certainly pay for it. Unfortunately, however, few are living up to their promises.

quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666
I don't really care how much they are making

Unless you have shares in Matrix, I don't see why you would. I only used it to illustrate my point that the complaint that Matrix marketing bods are marketing failures does not bear up to economic examination. If they're so bad, then why are they still around, while the strategy game publisher battlefield is littered with the corpses of failed ventures?

Now, don't take this as fanatical devotion to the Matrix corporation. I'm in agreement that DW is quite pricey. My position is that if one wishes to criticize Matrix, one needs to bring more data to the discussion than a childish exhortation of "it's too expensive", or "they failed marketing". Thus far, I have seen few critics present any facts to support their arguments.

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Post #: 154

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 6:01:40 AM

Texashawk

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For what it's worth, while I distinctly do not agree with Matrix's pricing decisions on this series (owning all expansions) there is a school of thought about this that perhaps Matrix is following: Many consumers are now trained (by Steam and Gamersgate, mostly) to simply wait a few weeks for the big weekend/24 hour/3 day sale that will inevitably happen, thus blunting initial sales and also potentially angering people who just bought the game at full price. This causes a self-defeating cycle of discounting that has caused several promising games to perform well below expectations. To Matrix's credit, if you buy a Matrix game at launch you are almost assured of paying the same price as a customer who buys it a year later, thus negating a reason to wait.

That being said... I really think Matrix has a huge opportunity to capitalize on the free publicity garnered by Quill's YT channel. At last count, there were 20,000(!) views of his video, and if I were Eliot reading the pages and pages of comments on the video that think the game is the second coming of 4X nirvana.... BUT OH GAWD THE PRICE!! I'd honestly not sure how I'd react. But frustration would be in there somewhere. I know there's a bundle discount planned, and I hope it's significant. I want to see this game series succeed in a huge way.

Matrix, indie games dream of this kind of pub - this is like an one-time event card drawn while playing a video game publisher simulation... USE IT!!! Publicity, excitement, and momentum are not dirty scary concepts!!

< Message edited by Texashawk -- 5/8/2013 6:03:36 AM >

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Post #: 155

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 7:13:54 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Texashawk
At last count, there were 20,000(!) views of his video...

20k views isn't meaningful. How many were unique views? What's the conversion rate of those views into sales?

Call me skeptical, but unless there's some analysis of the views, the number is meaningless.

Besides, 20k isn't a big deal. Katie Sunshine's Goldfish video has nearly a million - and yet she isn't (according to interviews) rolling in the cash from it. Will Matrix see a spike in DW sales - or a blip?

_____________________________

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Post #: 156

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 8:36:26 AM

Mansen

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1. The game is pricey even for its long replayablity time when compared to other 4X titles who are also very niche. You don't have to compare it to mainstream games like Skyrim to realize that the pricing is horribly wrong. (No one is being forced but it hurts potential sales)

2. Meaningful or not, Paradox (Who are a developer and publisher of 4X and grand strategy) obviously found him interesting enough to ship him off to the other end of the earth for a weekend length press event where they play their new upcoming game, Europa Universalis 4.

The man does excellent videos - not only from an Amateurs "I play games for fun" point of view, but he goes to lengths to explains gameplay features, strategies and tactics.

3. To return to the sales - Matrix are obviously losing out on potential sales by sticking with their own webstore (and admittedly a (few?) niche vendors like Gamersgate - which only carries the game base as far as I can tell)

To compare to Paradox's sales - Their least complex and niche game, Crusader Kings 2 sold a staggering 98% of its copies through Steam in the release quarter. Their niche products are upwards of 70-80% as well.

If Matrix don't want the customers or money, then they don't have to adapt or change their philosophies - but they are hurting themselves with the way things are now (Half of the comments alone on Quill's intro video for the game are potential customers complaining about the steep intro price - make of that what you want)

Note : I personally don't care what the game costs - if I want it, I'll buy it.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 157

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 9:21:09 AM

emptysands

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Personally I'm waiting for a sale or some form of Gold pack before I purchase. Although Distant Worlds looks very interesting, there a lots of other more cost effective games out there at the moment.

I'm hoping the new expansion pack has some reasonable sale option for the other 3 pieces - base + 2 expansions - maybe in a gold pack. Even then if the price is not right, I might still wait for some seasonal sale.

(in reply to Mansen)

Post #: 158

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 1:52:17 PM

lewdog64

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emptysands, earlier in this forumn post (page 5) the admin mentioned a sale this month

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Post #: 159

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 1:55:21 PM

necaradan666

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@Kayoz

I know they aren't making any more expansions for Skyrim, what's that got to do with anything. I wasn't comparing the games themselves. I was, like you, showing a comparison of a quality playtime-to-dollar value that I feel is equally as good as DW only that... Skyrim now sells with expansions at a fraction of the launch costs, and DW doesn't because it's niche?
I already said above I didn't think DW is quite as niche as the other war sims around here.

The quality of all these recent lesser 4x games is beside the point, they are still competition, they are options for similar gameplay that are cheaper and fairly well advertised. All these games count as niche too even though they are not as good as DW right? But they don't seem to require such high prices?

I only mentioned that I don't care about how many moneybags matrix makes because of the comments in this thread that are disparaging of the price and their reason being that they want more sales numbers and advertising for Matrix. That's not my concern, my point of view is that of a consumer who, in 4x terms, must make decisions based on weighted values. Right now DW would cost me more than another purchase which I'd value equally. It feels like a rip off in comparison to everything else, and that sucks because it's an awesome game.

It's not really fair to ask for data on a subject that is by it's nature relative to each person and his wallet, there are no facts other than the undisclosed numbers Matrix has, that and the opinions of potential buyers.

It's not the views or any sort of video analysis that is important on that youtube vid either.. it's the many, many comments that say "Looks awesome, too expensive though." That's a weird situation isn't it? Those commenters... many did mention they played endless space, stardrive etc. That means they're making purchases of mediocre games rather than a great one because it's not competitively priced. That sucks for everyone involved. (except stardrive devs I guess heh)

Anyway don't want to seem argumentative, in your words, I just wasn't sure your analysis was entirely reasonable.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 160

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 2:50:19 PM

Webbco

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That's exactly what I was thinking necaradan...at the end of the day, there are a fair number of people considering buying DW. We can see this by looking at comments on Quill18's Youtube vid, as one example. Regardless of arguments about value for money (which is totally subjective anyway) and other successful Youtube videos, a large proportion of people are not purchasing because of the price of DW.

(in reply to necaradan666)

Post #: 161

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 3:33:28 PM

garfield666

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DW is not a niche game, 4x are generally popular amongst strategy fans and this particular one is even quite accessible. what makes it niche, is its marketing model or rather no-marketing model.

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Post #: 162

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 3:44:50 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
1. The game is pricey even for its long replayablity time when compared to other 4X titles who are also very niche. You don't have to compare it to mainstream games like Skyrim to realize that the pricing is horribly wrong. (No one is being forced but it hurts potential sales)

1. Most other 4X games don't have equal replayability. Do you care to apply the cost-per-hour-played to the likes of Legends of Pegasus or Star Drive? Perhaps you missed the point of this calculus for use when considering purchasing a game - so I'll state it yet again. If you consider cost per hour played of DW and apply it to its competitors, DW comes out quite well indeed. If one is to consider the price, it is entirely unreasonable to consciously ignore the relative benefit that the purchase will impart.
2. Perhaps you missed my point yet again - I specifically said that I wasn't using Skyrim as a point for price comparison. Yet here you make the comparison again - despite the fact that I specifically and clearly stated that they should not be compared in this manner. If you want to make the price comparison between products that address different markets and belong to completely different genres... well, you're free to do so. Compare the price of AutoCad to Minecraft for all I care. But don't try to impute that comparison to my statements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
2. Paradox (Who are a developer and publisher of 4X and grand strategy) obviously found him interesting enough to ship him off to the other end of the earth for a weekend length press event where they play their new upcoming game, Europa Universalis 4.

That one who reviews games is taking payments directly from a publisher says a lot about his impartiality. I expect glowing reviews of any Paradox release.

Independent and impartial reviews are very unlikely with that sort of direct financial association.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
Crusader Kings 2 sold a staggering 98% of its copies through Steam in the release quarter.

98% is hardly a "staggering figure" if one has to look long and far to find any other place to buy it. Sorry, but your use of "staggering" is laughable in this example - as the alternatives to using Steam to buy it are hard to find (do they actually exist?). If there's no alternative sales channel for customers to use, then why do you find it "staggering" that 98% of their sales came through that channel? Staggering? Hardly.

You might as well say that 98% of Equate sales were through WalMart stores is "staggering".

You also seem to be missing the primary focus of any company - to turn a profit. How have Paradox's sales and marketing decisions affected it's profitability? Do you know? Do you have any figures at all? If not, then your statements bear no relevant value as far as business decisions go. If you do have some figures, please present them. Don't mind me if I prepare myself for a deafening silence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
Half of the comments alone on Quill's intro video for the game are potential customers complaining about the steep intro price - make of that what you want

I have learned to give Youtube comments their full and relevant worth.

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Post #: 163

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 4:09:54 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666
The quality of all these recent lesser 4x games is beside the point, they are still competition, they are options for similar gameplay that are cheaper and fairly well advertised. All these games count as niche too even though they are not as good as DW right? But they don't seem to require such high prices?

The price for a new Ferrari or Porsche is quite a lot higher than that of a Chevrolet. If we apply your statement to the automotive industry, then the executives at Porsche or Ferrari are clearly mad.

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Post #: 164

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 4:12:00 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi guys,

For the record, we're very glad to see coverage of Distant Worlds, especially on a popular channel like Quill's. We've already reached out to him to say thanks and ask how we can help him out in the future as far as preview copies, etc.

As far as other ways to get DW out to a larger audience, you can be certain we are working on that as well.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 165

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 4:15:56 PM

Vasquez

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quote:

ORIGINAL: garfield666
.. is its marketing model or rather no-marketing model.

hmm depends on the market I guess. In Germany there has been full sized advertisements in printed premium gaming magazines and the major retail stores (like Saturn or Media Markt) have whole pyramids of Distant Worlds and the Shakturi expansion (only Legends is missing over here. You have to buy it from Matrix).

A lot friends in germany, who never bought a single game from Matrix, does at least own Distant Worlds. Therefore the marketing in europe (or germany at least) seems to be reasonable.

Well Iain mentioned in another topic that germany is Matrix�/Slitherines most important retail market. This seems to be the reason for their increased activity over here.

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Post #: 166

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 5:24:15 PM

Mansen

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And the blind fanboy loyalism shows its true colours once more...

- You claim that other successful 4X games have no replay-ability yet the core mechanics are near identical without any base or data to support it.

- You also have a nasty problem with thinking that being invited to beta and press events means you are somehow "paid off". Being good at bringing in potential customers and PR as an unpaid hobbyist and being invited to any kind of exclusive event means you are no longer able to critique a product properly?

- It's not like Quill or the ton of other 4X/Grand Strategy youtubers are on the payroll of big publishers like Matrix, Paradox just because they like making their videos.

- In the example of Crusader Kings 2 and its sales numbers, you seem to ignore the fact that...

A. The game was released on a myriad of platforms. GamersGate, Amazon - Even Paradox's own webshop. (Thus invalidating your adorable little "Well if no one else sells it, obviously all the sales will go to X" rant)

B. More exposure (from being on a larger distribution platform) means more potential sales - niche games like DW are very dependent on "word of mouth" since they have such a limited exposure to the mainstream market.

Like you I have learned to give forum comments their full and relevant worth - in your specific case, None at all.

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Post #: 167

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 6:19:32 PM

Webbco

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Fighting fire with fire never works...if someone's comments are incessantly annoying you on the forums, press the green button at the bottom of their post. Some people feed off retaliation/arguments and the result inevitably ends in a locked thread.

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Post #: 168

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 6:22:34 PM

Mansen

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Point taken.

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Post #: 169

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 8:20:53 PM

Regularity

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Just found this thread today, so I'll throw in my two cents. I have some graduate economics and finance experience under my belt, although my primary field is political science graduate work. So I like to think I'm not talking (entirely) out my arse.

Matrix games seems to need work on their sales side. There are a few major gaffs they seem to have made:

First, poor sales strategies. In this case, their stealth sale. I bought Distant Worlds last month. On the product pages there are no indications of any sale or package discount, but when you actually put it in the cart and check out, you are suddenly shown that you do get a discount for buying them together. This means, in essence, they are only giving discounts to people who would have paid full price -- and thus they are losing potential money. The whole point of a sale is to attract customers that may not have bought it at the normal price, but since customers are not aware of a discount, it fails to do so.

Secondly, yes, Matrix Games would sell more with discounted pricing. Game pricing tends to be largely inelastic above a certain point; people are often willing to pay $60 USD for shooting games, or racing games, or strategy games, despite the fact that these genres should require much different levels of difficulty or expense to create. It doesn't matter if the game truly is a superior product or not, the fact is the majority are not willing to pay above a certain threshold. Naturally, the combined price tag of over $100 (core game + 2 expansions) certain surpasses the up to $60 people normally pay for games, whether PC or console. (The $60 value I cited naturally varies from country to country due to discriminatory pricing, but you get the idea.)

These whole "fun per dollar/hours" argument I keep hearing is great, but the majority of people do not make their purchasing decision this way. They do not calculate fun in dollars per hour, and even if they did, they can't make a rational calculation since they have not yet experienced the full game (and thus cannot know how much fun per hour/dollar they are really getting).

Additionally, Distant Worlds uses digital distribution. That means once the game/expansion is created, the game has minimal marginal costs per unit (no packaging, shipping, storage, distribution). Once the game is built, making additional copies is practically free for them, save for download bandwidth costs. Even the labour costs of writing patches is irrelevant in the sense it would take the same amount of work to write a patch for 10 game owners as it would 10 million. So assuming that as a company's objective is to maximize profit, it doesn't matter how much they charge per unit, but rather, only the cumulative total from sales. Thus after subtracting bandwidth costs, for them, selling 10000 units at $5 each is almost just as good as selling 5 units at $10000 each.

< Message edited by Regularity -- 5/8/2013 8:41:21 PM >

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Post #: 170

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 9:15:27 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
- You claim that other successful 4X games have no replay-ability yet the core mechanics are near identical without any base or data to support it.

Your illiteracy shines through. Did I write "no" or "none" describing the replayability of other 4X games? Did I?

Come on - is the digital record so hard to read? Your keyboard does have page up/down buttons, right? It's right there in black and whi.. well, greyish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
- You also have a nasty problem with thinking that being invited to beta and press events means you are somehow "paid off".

No, I didn't imply that there's anything wrong with being invited. I propose that there's something terribly wrong with being PAID. You're the one that said they're shipping him off - that is - paying his way to a presentation. If a free trip isn't a payoff, I don't know what is.

Again, it's your statement, not mine. I don't know or care about Quill nor his relation to Paradox. But if you try to hold up his financial gain from the arrangement as proof that he's a great reviewer - then I'll point out the corrupting influence this sort of thing invariably results in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
- It's not like Quill or the ton of other 4X/Grand Strategy youtubers are on the payroll of big publishers like Matrix, Paradox just because they like making their videos.

You just finished saying that he's been given a free trip - and somehow you don't qualify this as "paid". Hrmm... I suggest you check your country's income tax laws for what it considers "payment in like". In most places, a free trip at someone else's expense is indeed, payment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
- In the example of Crusader Kings 2 and its sales numbers, you seem to ignore the fact that...

A. The game was released on a myriad of platforms. GamersGate, Amazon - Even Paradox's own webshop. (Thus invalidating your adorable little "Well if no one else sells it, obviously all the sales will go to X" rant)

Amazon ships you out a disk with the Steam code. Gamersgate sells you a Steam code. Paradox's own online store links to their product on Steam. All of the vendors you mention go through Steam. It's unavoidable. That 98% of their sales went through Steam is STILL somehow a surprise to you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
B. More exposure (from being on a larger distribution platform) means more potential sales - niche games like DW are very dependent on "word of mouth" since they have such a limited exposure to the mainstream market.

This "Steam is the land of milk and honey" argument is old and tired. That horse is dead. There are plenty of threads on this topic throughout Matrix forums. Feel free to use the "search" function to find them and debate the issue there. You should enjoy them - many of the Steamophile crowd match your level of literacy and your appreciation for facts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
Like you I have learned to give forum comments their full and relevant worth - in your specific case, None at all.

Thank you for contradicting your earlier statement. You initially cried out that the youtube comments were indicative of the resistance to Matrix pricing. And now you give them no worth. Let me be the first to rush to the middle ground to agree with you. Not only on the issue of the value of Youtube comments, but the wider issue of the consistency in your position.

See? We can agree!

Addendum:
I would like to note that you have, despite my specific request, failed to provide any facts. Not one piece of verifiable data to support your argument. The deafening silence I predicted was nigh overwhelming.

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Post #: 171

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 9:53:58 PM

drillerman

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I bet the guys and gals at Matrix have a bit of a chuckle when they see all these posts on the forum about how they should run their business. If all these wannabe business wizkids have such great ideas for making 5h1tloads of money, then why ain't they doing it! yeah, here's looking at you @regularity @mansen

.......

................and before you shoot me down, I do actually think DW and all the expansions are very expensive. If I hadn't bought them as they came out I wouldn't be able to justify paying the money for the complete game now.

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Post #: 172

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 10:19:48 PM

Mansen

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Doesn't take a financial genius to come to such a simple conclusion.

Bigger market, more exposure, lower price - all lead to more potential sales. I assume you'd call people wizkid biologists for telling you that water is wet too.

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Post #: 173

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 10:26:26 PM

Lochar

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I will throw my meager 2 cents worth.

Most matrix games seem dedicated to the hardcore gamer who will buy it regardless of price. While I would love the give war in the pacific a run, I am NOT shelling out 80 $ to give it a spin.

Matrix IMO has the worst model for trying to expand its market niche to newcomers and to bring in more support.

That being said, I loved DW and don't regret my purchase, BUT in trying to talk a co worker or anyone else for matter into it, I have reservations. My ideal game may not be theirs. This is a steep investment to make for a game and I don't want the guilt in them spending a ton to not like it. Matter of fact now that I think about it, I was hesitant at first as Legends was what I first bought, and wouldnt have gotten it if wasnt a sale at time.

In case with my friend from work, he likes what Shadows has to offer but in order to play 1 expansion you have to buy all the others. No optional choice to skip something and with the amount of expansions it can be pretty steep.

From a consumer standpoint, I usually buy 1-2 games a month because my attention span changes as well as my genre for games, it depends on what I am reading at the time. Since steam came about I have about 100 games there, most at full priced but some sales, gamergates, gog, and desura have a bunch too. DW is the 2nd matrix title I have owned ever because of their 'niche' gaming model.

I am not saying to cut prices on newly released games, after all they put in the hard work for them, but to still keep the same prices way past release seems silly to me and yes keeps the possibly interested from staying long.

(in reply to Mansen)

Post #: 174

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 10:51:20 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen

Doesn't take a financial genius to come to such a simple conclusion.

Bigger market, more exposure, lower price - all lead to more potential sales. I assume you'd call people wizkid biologists for telling you that water is wet too.

Again, you miss the point of a business: to turn a profit. Somehow your business acumen has missed this.

It may not take a financial genius, but you are so clearly off the mark that I think it's safe to assume that the term would never be applied to you.

_____________________________

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Post #: 175

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 10:59:20 PM

Regularity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen

Doesn't take a financial genius to come to such a simple conclusion.

Bigger market, more exposure, lower price - all lead to more potential sales. I assume you'd call people wizkid biologists for telling you that water is wet too.

Again, you miss the point of a business: to turn a profit. Somehow your business acumen has missed this.

It may not take a financial genius, but you are so clearly off the mark that I think it's safe to assume that the term would never be applied to you.

Could you clarify how selling more units at lower prices won't turn a profit? If you take a look at my last post, I make the argument that a low per-unit price does not harm the game developer very much so long as there is a corresponding increase in numbers of units sold. If you disagree with this assertion, I would ask you give your reasoning, otherwise your post may just be interpreted as name calling.

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Post #: 176

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 11:02:08 PM

robc04_1

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I'm not sure why everyone is convinced they know best how Matrix will turn the biggest profit. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but to assume it is anything more than that is just silly. That goes for both sides of the argument (price too high or Matrix must be doing what is best). Matrix surely has more information on this than we do, so it would seem they are in a better position to price their games.

My opinion is that while many of their games are very niche products, like War in the East, Distant Worlds is not a terribly niche product. There are a lot of strategy game players out there, many of them 4x players. The mechanics of Distant Worlds are not terrible complicated or confusing. I feel most 4X fans could understand how to play without a huge amount of effort. I constantly read on other forums how a person is interested in Distant Worlds because they like space and / or 4X games, but they aren't willing to take the plunge at this price point without there being a demo. In the case of Distant Worlds I feel that they would do better by pricing it lower. Mark down the base game to $25 to get people to try it. Offer a discount when buying multiple expansions. Based on what I read and how I purchase games I feel that would be a better strategy for them, but it's only a guess. I think the biggest mistake made is declaring that Distant Worlds is more of a niche than it may actually be.

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RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 11:02:32 PM

Mansen

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Joined: 5/3/2013
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@Kayoz: And again you seem to be missing basic understanding of a business. The way to make a profit was through moving products - also known as making a sale. More potential sales, more profit.

Of course the income from sales have to exceed the development and administrative costs but that much should be obvious to a child - And it's not like any of the digital platforms around these days charge exorbitant signing fees or anything - in fact Indie and Niche companies are coming out of the woodwork everywhere onto the big platforms because it is free/cheap to take advantage of the offers.

But of course there are percentages that need to be paid per sale but that doesn't remove from the basis that a bigger market at low to no cost is a sound concept.

But I'm sure this is still beyond you...

< Message edited by Mansen -- 5/8/2013 11:04:18 PM >

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Post #: 178

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/8/2013 11:05:10 PM

robc04_1

Posts: 146
Joined: 1/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Regularity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen

Doesn't take a financial genius to come to such a simple conclusion.

Bigger market, more exposure, lower price - all lead to more potential sales. I assume you'd call people wizkid biologists for telling you that water is wet too.

Again, you miss the point of a business: to turn a profit. Somehow your business acumen has missed this.

It may not take a financial genius, but you are so clearly off the mark that I think it's safe to assume that the term would never be applied to you.

Could you clarify how selling more units at lower prices won't turn a profit? If you take a look at my last post, I make the argument that a low per-unit price does not harm the game developer very much so long as there is a corresponding increase in numbers of units sold. If you disagree with this assertion, I would ask you give your reasoning, otherwise your post may just be interpreted as name calling.

I don't think anyone disagrees that in many cases lowering the price can increase volume enough to bring it more money. The question is would it do so for Distant Worlds or is it enough of a niche product that lowering the price won't have as a significant impact on volume. I don't feel DW is as niche as they think it is and could benefit from lower pricing, but it surely isn't a given.

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Post #: 179

RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 5/9/2013 1:10:21 AM

Numdydar

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I really love these threads

Seriously.

It is amazing that a binary decision can be twisted so many ways lol. I own all the DW expansions AND bought the complete set for a friend as a present as I knew he would like it (he is disabled so definately could not afford it himself). At full price for both sets. I will also buy the expansion when it comes out too. At whatever price point it is at.

So either

0 - buy the game, take a chance, and accept you may regret the purchase.
1 - Don;t buy the game for whatever reason you want. Pricing, not sure if my playing value will match the cost, etc.

Commentary about Matrix's marketing skills, pricing startegy, etc. is NOT going to change the price point. Also every for profit company is different. So compatring any two companies, even in the same field is a waste of time. It is like comparing Dell and Gateway. Should either of them sell a computer for the same price for the same specs just because the other has it at a different price? Is Apple lowering the iPad price because the Kindle is cheaper? None of these arguments make any sense for these companies any more than comparing Matrix to Paradox (who i also own games from

. Do I really care I spent less for some of Paradox's games than Matrix. No. Btw there are threads at Paradox that also complain about pricing too lol. Along the lines of why should I pay $20 USD for a game that will be on sale in six months. So Matrix is not the only game company that has people complianing (whining?) about price. Try visiting Battlefront and seeing their prices for 'old' games

So MAtrix is not the only one's following this model.

That's it. Buy or not buy. For whatever reason you want to use. Everything else is just noise. Entertaining noise, but still noise lol.

(in reply to robc04_1)

Post #: 180