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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

 
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/20/2012 8:25:26 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		In the south, I'm forced to disengage and pull east. I figured Scar would use his panzers to tighten the grip on the elusive Lvov Pocket, but unfortunately he did well by tightening the grip by attacking east - isolating more of the "relieving" troops.

While I've managed to gain a corridor to the eastern most elements of the pocket, a lone Rumanian Cav Bde holds off attacks and keeps the majority of the pocket in isolation.

While I've held AGS to marginal gains in the Ukraine, the price has been much too high. Southwestern Front has little left to it as it begins to pull back to the Dniepr where reinforcements are busily digging in.

Southern Front leaves a robust garrison of Odessa to wait for the Rumanians - many of which appear to have been used to attack north, into the Lvov Pocket rather than eastward.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/20/2012 10:56:23 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Turn 4; Jul 10, 1941........Clear

A very surprisingly quiet turn. I had figured the Panzers would be on the march easterward in all three army groups, but apparently Scar has focused on resting his panzers, bringing up infantry and mopping up pockets.

For industry, I focus on Leningrad, moving 20xBA10, 4xYak6, 6xArms, and 6xVeh factories east. With remaining rail, I moved 4xArm from Bryansk and 1xArm from the Moscow area. As you can see, I haven't moved a single Heavy Industry eastwards. Keeping my fingers crossed that this would effect anything......

Northern Front: Finland attacks, and its 7th Independent Army will fight forward on the eastern side of Lake Lagoda. Its 23rd Army, once released, along with the newly arrived 28th Army HQs, will establish a Front on the Luga River, from the Baltic to Novgorod.

Northwest Front: Currently holding a weak line from Pskov south, will hold the line from Lake Ilmen to Velikie Luki. Currently the Front is still reforming, with the 27th Army (in and around Pskov) being anywhere near combat effective. Its 11th Army, south of 27th Army is below 50%, and its 8th Army with just the HQs. 31st Army, currently in STAVKA will augment the Front in the coming weeks.

Reserve Front was formed from the 22nd, 24th and 20th Armies holding the critical areas of the Land Bridge northwards. 20th Army in the Land Bridge is the best equipped on the entire front, in level 2 fortifications, backed by three well equipped armored divisions in reserve. With luck it can at least cause the Germans some heavy losses - I have no illusions that the Germans will strike here with a full panzer gruppe in the coming weeks. Both 22nd and 24th Armies are at about 50% and rely on the river and rough terrain to assist in a defense. They will not fair well....

Western Front is still regrouping. Only 3rd Army holding from Mogilev northward is combat effective. Perhaps with the Dneipr, it can delay until fresh troops can arrive in numbers.

The Orel MD's 21st Army defends the Gomel area of the Dniepr. Its not much, but again, it does have the river to assist in the defense.

The Southwestern and Southern Fronts are ciphers after the Lvov pocket debacle. They pull back, hopefully far enough to avoid a mass penetration. Their frontline is more of a robust screen than any defensive front. I'm hold the vast majority of incoming troops on the eastern side of the Dniepr where they are digging in. I have no hope of contesting the western bank. Only buying a little time - as the vast amount of German (and Rumanian) infantry is busy digesting the Lvov Pocket.

Odessa is declared a fortified port city and three rifle divisions and three security regiments remain behind to defend to the bitter end. My goal here is to force the Germans to commit some of there advancing infantry here as the defenses should be prohibitive to the Rumanians. And German infantry in the advance is in short supply forward.

I've also begun establishing the Moscow defensive belt system. Incoming raw Soviet Rifle divisions occupy positions here to fortify and gain experience rather then sending them forward. But of course, the needs maintaining " a frontline" will pull divisions forward - but not until they have achieved an experience level of about 35 and are close to full strength. That way, they'll have at least a chance!

Right now, what I could really use is that random appearance of General Mud in the Central Soviet Zone. I can dream, right????

Lastly, I'm still concerned that the Corps HQs are not disbanding. I still have 87 rifle and mech corps HQs on the map which are draining manpower and just getting in the way. The one less from last turn? I spent an AP to disband it!




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 7/20/2012 10:59:48 PM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 12:36:05 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Turn 5; July 17, 1941.........Clear and Mud!!!

The Communist prayers are answered with MUD in the Central Soviet Zone!!! This is the absolute best news I could get. It looked as though Scar was resting his panzers and bringing up infantry just in time for mud to hit. I'm sure the blow will now fall during turn 6, but another week is another week!

For industry, I move the 32xKV factory out of Leningrad, 3xArm from Krivoi Rog and 2xArm from Kremunchug. None of these cities is immediately threatened, but the KVs are just too valuable to toy around with, and the Ukraine is still very, very thinly held.

The other big news besides the mud was the AI finally deciding to disband some corps HQs - about 64 of them in the one turn! Also great news, cleaning up the lines of command and releasing thousands of troops to the pool.

With the now about three turns of reduced tempo operations from the German side, I've been able to get a good jump on reorganizing the Red Army.

Screen shot below of the Finnish Front which activated last turn. 7th Independent Army is reinforced to hold the Finns as far north as possible. I hope to give the Finns a bloody nose here. With the terrain (river, woods) and narrow frontage, its going to be a tough nut to crack.

23rd Army falls back toward Leningrad, performing a delaying action up to the no-attack line is crossed.

Fortifications are also started to defend Leningrad proper, and south of the screen shot, the Luga River Line begins to take shape.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 12:43:41 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		NW Front awaits the blow about to fall on it - most likely around Pskov.

27th Army is in fairly good shape, with some powerful (for Soviet 1941 standards) units in Reserve and a fortified line with rifle divisions at close to full strength. I have little confidence it will hold of course, but it could delay the German advance a bit.

11th Army is noticeably weaker, but benifits from better terrain. It will give way rapidly if pressed.

31st Army is just forming with brand new units, most still well under 50% strength.






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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 7/22/2012 12:45:22 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 12:58:52 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		West of Moscow, the Reserve and Western Fronts prepare as best as possible.

The Reserve front's 22nd Army (full strength), backed by the 24th Army (weak) to its rear, awaits the blow that is expected north of Vitebsk. Recon aircraft fail to identify the buildup, but I figure a Panzer Gruppe has to be west or north west of Vitebsk....

The 20th Army masses in the Land Bridge - narrow frontage, fair terrain and in good forts (yes, I consider a level 2 fort "good forts"). Backed by powerful armored reserves. It has a chance to cost the Germans a few casualties before it gives way. I have no illusions it will hold the mass of panzers to its west. Perhaps the mud, which shows this German concentration as "isolated", might lower the effectiveness somewhat to prevent a mass encirclement.

Yeah, I know, I'd probably be better off doing something that looks more like a carpet, but I'm trying to stay with something that the Russians might have tried to do.....yeah, I'll pay for it....

The Western Front is still very weak, with only 3rd Army are realitively good strength defending the east bank of the Dniepr. I expect the river to limit any mass penetration, but reserve armor is weak here. I'm holding reinforcements to the east to await the Germans....

The 21st Army, under STAVKA control, completes the line to the Pripet. I don't expect this army to be attacked in force at this time.

The blow will come aimed directly at the 20th Army with attacks to the north and south in support.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 1:14:50 AM   
M60A3TTS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
For industry, I focus on Leningrad, moving 20xBA10, 4xYak6, 6xArms, and 6xVeh factories east. With remaining rail, I moved 4xArm from Bryansk and 1xArm from the Moscow area.


BA-10 factories stop producing after September so moving them is something of a waste of railcap.

In terms of moving arms, you may want to look at my recent AAR notes on the subject of the arms multipler. Basically it's not good to move a factory size 4 or larger in increments of 3 or less. They will never benefit from the arms multiplier that comes in 1942-45.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 1:55:30 AM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
For industry, I focus on Leningrad, moving 20xBA10, 4xYak6, 6xArms, and 6xVeh factories east. With remaining rail, I moved 4xArm from Bryansk and 1xArm from the Moscow area.


BA-10 factories stop producing after September so moving them is something of a waste of railcap.

In terms of moving arms, you may want to look at my recent AAR notes on the subject of the arms multipler. Basically it's not good to move a factory size 4 or larger in increments of 3 or less. They will never benefit from the arms multiplier that comes in 1942-45.


Stop! Backing M60 up! .
Note to self: rail guide now Rasmus!, never ever do small aka under 4 movements of arms, there are also some sweet spots when u get higher up. Concentrate on getting out in bunches if at all possible. There are other facs to use spare RR cap on.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 2:08:33 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Didn't realize it was "bad" to break down the total number of arms factorys (taking 1 from a total of 8 for instance) and railing them separately. I knew it was a bad idea with tanks.....

thanks!

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/22/2012 2:20:34 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		The remainder of the front with the Southwestern and Southern Fronts. Both Fronts pull back as far as mud will allow to stay out of "encirclement range" if at all possible.

Southwestern Front is still overloaded despite the majority of the Lvov Pocket having been digested by the Germans. Still a few hold outs, but until that is complete and a few more corps HQs go away, Southwestern front C2 is still in pretty poor shape, with few, if any effective armies. As you can see in the screen shot, reinforcments await on the Dniepr as the forces west of the river pull back, trying to stay one step ahead of the advancing Germans.

Southern Front is in a little better shape, with 9th and 38th Armies actually in fair shape. Coastal Army is forming. Southern Front also continues its retrograd movement east, into the Dniepr Bend where reinforcements also await on the river.

These forces along the river vary in composition. Some are realatively full strength formations, others, mere shells just starting to form up.

Odessa continues to await the advancing Rumanians - I say Rumanians as it is taking a very long time for the Axis controlled zone to approach the city.

Lastly, in the Pripet, two formally isolated divisions rejoin the Soviet controlled portion in the far western portion, and I put some newly formed Cavalry in the Pripet to keep things honest and screen the area. There are five divisions that still have a "chance" to make it out, but are moving very slowly east.

Overall, the goal in the Ukraine is to reform the Southwestern Front on the east bank of the Dniepr and defend there until it is breached. The Southern Front will continue to fall back into the Dneipr Bend, then cross the river and hold as long as possible.

I expect the Germans to cross south of Kiev, and then head towards Kharkov of course.....






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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 7/22/2012 2:23:25 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 12:14:12 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Turn 6; July 24, 1941.........Clear

The long awaited German onslaught resumed - and with a bang! But first, industry...

With the German adances deep in the rear, armaments again have to be moved rapidly. 8xArms are move out of Dnepropetrovsk, 4xArm in Kalinin, and lastly 2xYak7B from Moscow. Rail priority this turn wasn't industry, it was moving troops....

The effectiveness of the German attacks surprised me - I'm still surprised (even after playing the Germans) just how far they can penetrate into rear areas if well supplied.

In the North, PzGrp 4 breaches through the boundary of the 27th and 11th Armies and turns north to flank the Pskov position.

In the Center, apparently both PzGrps 2 and 3 combine thier efforts and drive hard east-northeast toward the prize of Moscow - right over 20th Army in the Land Bridge.

In the South, PzGrp 1 punches through the 38th Army and looks to conduct a raid on industry sites in the Ukraine - which had already been evacuated.

While all three attacks are hugely successful in penetrating the front and exploiting deep into the rear, I am very surprised that each attack is apparently a single, stand alone thrust - none appear synchronized with another, nor are any pockets formed (at least initially). For instance, had the PzGrp 4 attack wheeled southeast instead of northwards, three Soviet armies would have been bagged!!

Not that I'm out of the woods here, this attack is very effective and costly as is, we'll see what we can do about it!

I'll show more detailed screen shot of each German penetration, both before and after Soviet Moves...




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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 7/25/2012 12:26:38 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 12:35:22 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		The Pzgrp 4 penetration before Soviet any moves. First order of business, assess the damage.

First thing to note is this is a VERY narrow penetration. Just how vulnerable are the Germans, we need to find out - air and ground recon! Air recon doesn't show much - it seems to indicate at gap in the German advance near the neck. That's good news.

Next, I move some mobile units (cav, tank and infantry with good APs) to see what they can find. 11th and 27th Armies easily cut the German corridor without a fight. That's great news, at least I can perhaps minimize the damage. I don't want a repeat of the Lvov Pocket - losing more troops in a bigger pocket - yet the tempation to cut off and perhaps kill off a German panzer regiment or even a division needs to be explored!

What I intend to do is extract the 11th Army - along with the Reserve Front's 22nd and 24th Armies to the south of the screen shot - and reform a line. Abandon ground to the south while retaining units to defend Leningrad.

However, I realize through some more ground recon that the Germans are VERY stretched and perhaps vulnerable. I can't pass this up. Instead of just giving up ground, perhaps I can pull out most of the threatened units, but at the same time encircle the Germans - there aren't many panzer divisions here in AGN to come to the rescue!

So I elect to push forward the Northern Front's 23rd and 28th Armies and STAVKA's 31st Army to "strangle" the German spearhead, cutting it off at the base, and forcing the Germans to extract it.






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 12:55:01 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		After Soviet moves, this is the result.....

This could turn out very well for the home team, or another major pocket.....

I've managed to isolate all the panzer and motorized divisions (I think) in AGN, along with thier HQs. While he'll have no trouble in extracting the southern most group (8th Pz, Tot SS, and 3rd Mot), with only infantry initially available, relieving the northern most group may be challenging....

Worst case, and he is able to clear a corridor to the trapped panzers, I "should" be able to withdraw the majority of troops eastwards across the swamps toward Kholm.

Best case, I'm able to hold the noose around one or two of the northern most pockets and kill them in the Soviet turn......

In any case, I can't pass up the attempt to try and isolate these penetrations.....






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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 1:38:54 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Armee Group Center's penetration, before Soviet moves.

Massing both panzer gruppes in one penetration really surprised me. I figured I was just missing PzGrp 3 west of Vitebsk. Instead, both PzGrps, along with infantry massed to break through the 20th Army astride the Land Bridge.

Give 20th Army credit - it didn't run, it fought hard, including a number of "holds" and employing the reserve armor effectively - but to no avail. Germans were able to penetrate significantly into the rear areas. And here, the penetration "shoulders" appear to be well defended.

The positive is that nothing was encircled. Note the cutting of the rail line near Toropets - preventing extracting the 22nd Army via rail. Fortunately, the 22nd and 24th Armies are well rested and well supplied - they have plenty of movement points available.

Plan here is simple - recon to see if there is a weakness, then pull back. Don't sacrifice forces unnecessarily.

Recon finds a potential gap south of Velizh - enough perhaps to cut off the spearhead, but only a very temporary cut.

Reserve Front will attempt to reform on the northern and western side of the penetration. Western Front will take charge of the Moscow Belt units are form armies to prevent further advance eastward toward Moscow. It will also attempt to hold the Dniepr to Smolensk - if for no other reason to entice the Germans to attack south - and not toward Moscow or link up with PzGrp 4 to the north.

The "STAVKA Moscow Belt" units are numerous and well stocked with manpower - but are only at about 50% fill with artillery and AT guns. Nor are they particularly well trained. But they are certainly available!







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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 2:00:06 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		After moves, we manage to isolate the German spearhead with a 20 mile corridor, but those gallant Soviet units are sure to be lost shortly.


The Reserve Front, which bore the brunt of this attack, redeploys as follows:

22nd Army pulls out swiftly to the NW and establishes a new defensive line without hinderance.
24th Army also pulls out, and is sizably reinforced to assume a new defensive line at the tip of the German penetration.
20th Army, formerly the strongest army in the Soviet Union, cut in half by the German attack is further divided.
- part of the forces on the north side pull back with the 22nd and 24th Armies
- three divisions are left behind after cutting off the German penetration - these are written off
- the remaining forces on the southern side pull back east to rejoin the remaining forces in the coming weeks.

Western Front:
- Reforms its 10th Army with 9 Divisions from STAVKA on the eastern side of the penetration and probes westward to make contact. It succeeds in pushing back one motorized regiment.
- 3rd Army continues to hold the Dniepr line toward Smolensk, but pulls forces east as it prepares to give ground.

STAVKA:
- Brings up additional rifle divisions, forming the 34th Army with six of these along the upper Dniepr as it assumes the "Moscow Outer Ring" defenses.
- Additional rifle divisions, in various stages of readiness and equipment are brought up from the reaches of the Soviet Union as Moscow is threatened.

Overall - this attack is probably the most significant as he has truly massed an iron fist aimed toward Moscow. I can perhaps slow this juggernaut down, but I can't stop it with ground power. A lack of supply and fatigue may however. Or a diversion either north or south.




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 2:10:50 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		In the south, we just didn't pull back fast enough - again, the capability of the panzers were underestimated.....

His attack penetrates 9th Army's thin screen line with little effort - but no effort is make to turn north or south to pocket troops. Good. Instead, his troops head east to the Dniepr Bend. Perhaps intent on taking industry in Kirovograd and Krivoi Rog - both of which had been evacuated. But the attack threatens the cities on the Dniepr Bend itself - which HAVE NOT had their industry moved. Screening them is a priority.

North of the attack, Southwestern Front seems to have little to its west putting pressure on it - that will allow me to pull back to the Dniepr and link up with fresh STAVKA forces holding the bank and digging in.

What this attack does is force me to a more hasty withdrawal - one which I can extract the forward elements of the Southern Front by rail - and reform along the Dniepr itself.

With luck, German supply will need a few weeks to catch up, and we can contest the Dniepr crossing effectively...




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 2:26:08 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		After the Soviet moves, the defenses are established along the Dniepr without any issues. Rail is maximized in both withdrawing the Southern Front elements as well as bringing up STAVKA reserves from throughout the Ukraine.

Southwestern Front still needs some reorganizing as the Lvov Pocket has now been liquidated - Some army HQs are still moving eastwards.

STAVKA - Both the 16th and 19th Armies are fairly strong and in good positions on the river bank. They may remain independant, or join the Southwestern Front. We'll see. I think I have some time here....

Southern Front - with the 9th Army screening the Dniepr Bend and 38th and Coastal Armies extending south along the river are thin, but should have some time to build up before the Germans can cross.

I do pull out two rifle divisions from Odessa - I need them on the Dniepr more than sacrificing them in the fortress. They are replaced with NKVD border units (one Rifle Div also remains).

I think the Germans will take about 2 weeks to prep an attack across the Dniepr near Cherkassy. He's got to have stretched is supply lines here. I'll use that time to reinforce the defenses and remove industry. However, priority is the Moscow and then the Leningrad areas.

If nothing else, these three attacks force me to divide my forces and commit reserves I'd rather have held back. I'm starting to run low on squads and personnel. To help with that, I reduce all HQs to 50% manning and all units to 80% fill. That should help, and max a rifle division down form 13,000 to around 10,000 men. By extracting the support units from the Lvov Pocket, I have plenty of artillery in support units right now. I want sustain that...




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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 2:45:00 AM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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Status: offline 		This guys attacks are hideous IMO. He keeps ballooning his attacks and leaving his flanks too vulnerable. I realize you lost a lot cutting them off before but now he might not be able to recover. Reminds me of "Micheal" the German offensive in 1918.

He just tries to ram a fist in your front and hope for the best from the fallout. Bleh..it might payoff but Im a bit too cautious (wise??) to attack like that.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 8:27:13 AM   
Fishbed

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

While all three attacks are hugely successful in penetrating the front and exploiting deep into the rear, I am very surprised that each attack is apparently a single, stand alone thrust - none appear synchronized with another, nor are any pockets formed (at least initially). For instance, had the PzGrp 4 attack wheeled southeast instead of northwards, three Soviet armies would have been bagged!!



I think we're quite a few here to share this opinion. Well, good for you though, a game without mistakes on his part would be much less fun!
But considering the limited recon he did over there, his choice is quite astonishing and reckless - even against a new player, and yet he does it and you are far from being new.

I can't see him get himself free easily in the north, even with an air-supply galore. I think he'll be very, very lucky to recover his PzDiv alive, and even then they will be awfully depleted. I think you just pulled a great move. Pound them surrounded units, and you that may even save Leningrad for 1941.

On everything else: great stuff. You retreat when he wants to fight, and you stand where he wants you to leave. Playing a gotterdammerung game for hundred of turns does help to know when and where to strike I guess

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 7/25/2012 8:45:47 AM >

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 11:53:39 AM   
janh

 

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Status: offline 		Scar seems to really want to catch up with the time lost now, but being too aggressive (yes, perhaps even a little reckless) won't pay off either. He already lost a net of two turns, and with three PzGr. spearheads cut off almost fully he lost at least one more turn now. This game is not exactly going well for him. If it continues like this, he won't cause you the casualties he must so that the blizzard offensive with the benefits you'll get won't end up a disaster.

On the other hand, I see much uncertainty about forces, some "little chaos", lots of fighting and breaks needed to sort out the rear and supplies, possibly a change of his larger plans mid-way... This AAR does have a much more realistic feel to it than the "streamlined games" played by optimizing what can be squeezed out of rules, the 1st turn tuning, the supply system and mulling, etc. Much more interesting, I find, although Scar may not agree with that just now

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/25/2012 1:00:56 PM   
timmyab

 

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Status: offline 		Could be game over for 41st pz corps here I think.Will probably depend on whether 56th pz corps is fueled up or not.
Your opponent needs to rethink his Axis tactics generally.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 12:47:54 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Scar seems to really want to catch up with the time lost now, but being too aggressive (yes, perhaps even a little reckless) won't pay off either. He already lost a net of two turns, and with three PzGr. spearheads cut off almost fully he lost at least one more turn now. This game is not exactly going well for him. If it continues like this, he won't cause you the casualties he must so that the blizzard offensive with the benefits you'll get won't end up a disaster.

On the other hand, I see much uncertainty about forces, some "little chaos", lots of fighting and breaks needed to sort out the rear and supplies, possibly a change of his larger plans mid-way... This AAR does have a much more realistic feel to it than the "streamlined games" played by optimizing what can be squeezed out of rules, the 1st turn tuning, the supply system and mulling, etc. Much more interesting, I find, although Scar may not agree with that just now


Well said!

This is the most interesting AAR I have seen in some time.

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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 1:32:33 AM   
A game


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

Scar seems to really want to catch up with the time lost now, but being too aggressive (yes, perhaps even a little reckless) won't pay off either. He already lost a net of two turns, and with three PzGr. spearheads cut off almost fully he lost at least one more turn now. This game is not exactly going well for him. If it continues like this, he won't cause you the casualties he must so that the blizzard offensive with the benefits you'll get won't end up a disaster.

On the other hand, I see much uncertainty about forces, some "little chaos", lots of fighting and breaks needed to sort out the rear and supplies, possibly a change of his larger plans mid-way... This AAR does have a much more realistic feel to it than the "streamlined games" played by optimizing what can be squeezed out of rules, the 1st turn tuning, the supply system and mulling, etc. Much more interesting, I find, although Scar may not agree with that just now


Well said!

This is the most interesting AAR I have seen in some time.


I agree! As much as everyone seems to be desperately seeking the holy grail of most optimized and streamlined gameplay it doesnt always make for an interesting AAR, as we begin to see the same cookie cutter moves over and over again.

And occasionally mistakes can lead your opponent to get over confident, providing you with an opportunity to get back in the game...

Scar is certainly digging a hole for himself though, hopefully he can consolidate and start making some pockets!

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 52
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 4:08:17 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the positive comments guys!! Really appreciate it.

This one is just getting started! Plenty of time for both of us to mess things up. Scar surprised me with these very aggressive penetrations. I'm trying to avoid "gamey" (no offense intended here - concepts that work in the game system, but not how they would do things historically) methods like a carpet, or even a checkerboard, but trying to look at how STAVKA would defend - and when, where to counter attack.

The big surprise for me this game is the tremendous change in fortifications - wish I had this when I was the German in 1941. But it looks like attrition and lack of replacements are hitting the Germans harder this time around as a "balance".

Playing the Soviets are a challenge - something very different from what I'm used to.

Lots of fun though....even getting crushed in 1941. Kinda akin to playing the Allies in WiTP in early '42.......it WILL get better!

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Post #: 53
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 12:02:55 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
The big surprise for me this game is the tremendous change in fortifications - wish I had this when I was the German in 1941. But it looks like attrition and lack of replacements are hitting the Germans harder this time around as a "balance".

Playing the Soviets are a challenge - something very different from what I'm used to.


Yeah, as i noted to ur in the old AAR. if u look at forts overall through out the war they now work more in favor of the axis side.
U sure on attrition? it isnt just that they arent recieving them from being in front lines?
When ever attrition has been touched in patches they have consistantly been toned down. They half now of what they use to be IIRC.
As too number of replacements neither do i see any thing that should have changed on axis side. Manpower and multiplier is the same as always, basicly the same oob, kickback return from disabled is the same, unlike on russian side.

Glad that u find it a challange and its fun

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/26/2012 3:27:23 PM >

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Post #: 54
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 1:06:01 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Axis attrition is down now, Idaho, not up.

So far as the forts go, yeah, we solved the 1942 fort spam problem but probably broke it for the rest of the war. The new fort scheme punishes the side that is AP starved. The Axis has APs to burn after the first couple of months in the war and can literally build hundreds of these things. The Soviet Union is always strapped for APs. I might buy a dozen FRs over the course of an entire game. And probably could get away with as few as...one. (The one covering the backdoor of Leningrad.) They are basically not cost effective for the Soviets.







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Post #: 55
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 5:09:29 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

While all three attacks are hugely successful in penetrating the front and exploiting deep into the rear, I am very surprised that each attack is apparently a single, stand alone thrust - none appear synchronized with another, nor are any pockets formed (at least initially). For instance, had the PzGrp 4 attack wheeled southeast instead of northwards, three Soviet armies would have been bagged!!



I think we're quite a few here to share this opinion. Well, good for you though, a game without mistakes on his part would be much less fun!
But considering the limited recon he did over there, his choice is quite astonishing and reckless - even against a new player, and yet he does it and you are far from being new.

I can't see him get himself free easily in the north, even with an air-supply galore. I think he'll be very, very lucky to recover his PzDiv alive, and even then they will be awfully depleted. I think you just pulled a great move. Pound them surrounded units, and you that may even save Leningrad for 1941.

On everything else: great stuff. You retreat when he wants to fight, and you stand where he wants you to leave. Playing a gotterdammerung game for hundred of turns does help to know when and where to strike I guess



Generally when I do something crazy like the AGN thrust I do air drops to lead units. As soon as you get to them they have 30 to 35 Mp's and you can end up with a big bag of units. They look cut off but realy are about to do 2nd leg of the thrust.

In this case the infantry can easly get to the 2nd pocket as I am guessing they are the 90 morale dudes that are always at the front of that spearhead. Really bad planning on GHC to let the first bunch of panzers get cut off.

It is turn 6 and if GHC just did a HQB then he will easly get to the 3rd and 4th pocket.

If he did not then the tanks in first pocket should have enough fuel to get to 3rd pocket and 3rd will have enough to get to 4th even if he did not do a HQB.

Many times MT and myself will do something that looks crazy, but its a trap as all them panzer units that are "cut off" will have 35+ MP's as soon as they get relinks to front.

Generally I will have 3 or 4 divisions that are not cut off that just did a HQB. What appears bad turns into a huge pocket for GHC.

But I am guessing that GHC was planning on SHC running and not fighting and thing will really go bad for GHC


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Post #: 56
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 5:12:24 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh
This AAR does have a much more realistic feel to it than the "streamlined games" played by optimizing what can be squeezed out of rules, the 1st turn tuning, the supply system and mulling, etc. Much more interesting, I find, although Scar may not agree with that just now


Muling is 100% not possible any more as of a few patchs ago.

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Post #: 57
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/26/2012 5:17:33 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Axis attrition is down now, Idaho, not up.

So far as the forts go, yeah, we solved the 1942 fort spam problem but probably broke it for the rest of the war. The new fort scheme punishes the side that is AP starved. The Axis has APs to burn after the first couple of months in the war and can literally build hundreds of these things. The Soviet Union is always strapped for APs. I might buy a dozen FRs over the course of an entire game. And probably could get away with as few as...one. (The one covering the backdoor of Leningrad.) They are basically not cost effective for the Soviets.








As far as forts go I am thinking based on past games ect that the GHC really doesn't need to build any until late summer 42.

The winter line is really not effective at all. I am planning on using the AP to switch around units/commanders ect. The extra troops are needed for the 42 summer offensive.

Basicly usless for both sides until late 42, which is for the best.

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Post #: 58
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 2:45:43 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Turn 7; Jul 31, 1941.......Clear

Industry: Armaments moved from: 8xDnepropetrovsk, 4xZaporozhye, and 8xPoltava

Overall, a pretty quiet turn. AGN focused on relieving the trapped panzers, while AGC and AGS basically.....consolidated...

Here, against AGN, we have success! Screen shot shows AGN attacks to relieve the panzers, and they manage to fight a corridor to all but the 36th Mot Div, which remains encircled.

This is probably for the best, as I'm not sure that the Soviet forces would have been able to force two stacked panzer divisions into submission!





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 59
RE: Idaho defends the Motherland - 7/28/2012 2:57:48 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
Have to be honest, this game is a complete mess - and I knew it would be when (not giving away intel) Scar noted in his AAR that he didn't have much experience as the German side. IMO, it would be sporting to offer a do-over; no shame in that since the German side really requires serious experience with optimizing supply and knowing what to do and not to do with the panzers...

Just think you guys are not going to have much fun from here on out and we already have the Terje AAR of what happens when someone who has no idea how to play as the Germans tries it out against a human for the first time.

No criticism of Scar - I don't even try as the German b/c I know it's f'ing difficult...although very rewarding once you learn how to do it.

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Post #: 60
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