RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns Series >> Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue >> Mods and Scenarios >> RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE

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RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 7/31/2012 2:30:03 PM

Vic

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@Zoc discussion,

Zoc pts are given based on number and type of troops inside a unit. You can define the zoc value of each individual trooptype.

Enemy Zoc has no effect if it is X times lower than friendly Zoc.

The issue discussed will only be an issue in low unit to hex density scenarios. In that case having more units will be an advantage. However in scenarios where you have 1 or more units per frontline hex it will not be.

Best,
Vic

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Post #: 61

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 7/31/2012 3:48:10 PM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

@Zoc discussion,

Zoc pts are given based on number and type of troops inside a unit. You can define the zoc value of each individual trooptype.

Enemy Zoc has no effect if it is X times lower than friendly Zoc.

The issue discussed will only be an issue in low unit to hex density scenarios. In that case having more units will be an advantage. However in scenarios where you have 1 or more units per frontline hex it will not be.

Best,
Vic

Hi Vic
It is great you took into consideration this when you designed the game.

Could you go into specific data? or at least the logical behind the numbers selected?

It is only dependant on trooptype? Is terrain type a modifier depending of troopstype? (I mean, woods would interfere with the ZOC of an armour much more heavily than with infantry, for instance)

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Post #: 62

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 5:05:18 AM

Redmarkus5

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Vic has explained to me the critical importance of events in any mod, which I had not fully grasped. Basically, we are wasting our time on the map and OOB if we can't handle the event code edits and additions.

So, I have stopped map modding for a while and dived into that. I edited Events 1 through 20 so far, to try and make them conform to a 22 June 1941 start and new hex boundaries, especially for supply etc.

I've asked Vic to look at my WIP and let me know if I am on the right track or not.

Are there any event code modders out there?

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Post #: 63

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 5:09:46 AM

Redmarkus5

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This is the status of the terrain drawing. Towns, rivers and rail are also done for the Lublin-Lvov area and the Crimea-Odessa area.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 64

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 12:35:02 PM

Redmarkus5

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OK, the Kharkov WITE mod...

There being a dearth of volunteers for looking at VPs and Events, I have done a bit more on the scenario. You need to re-download and re-install the whole Mod as I changed a few graphics as well. Link deleted - see later post.

1. I removed all old VPs and set all new towns/city VPs.

2. I started to edit the victory conditions, but it seems to say that it's not a VP-based victory. (Vic? Can you maybe take a quick look at this file and let us know if it looks ok?)

3. I went through the events code and couldn't find a victory event relevant to this scenario (or didn't understand what I was seeing!)

However, I played the first two turns and the Soviet AI seemed to be its normal blistering self, smashing through my lines and heading west and NW.

So, I suggest some play testing and comments now before we release this one.

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< Message edited by redmarkus4 -- 8/1/2012 4:36:25 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 2:17:08 PM

Redmarkus5

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Damn! Mud still over writes the whole map, even though I set each graphic class to transparent. I need to figure that problem out...

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Post #: 66

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 3:38:31 PM

Redmarkus5

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OK, made the mud graphic 75% transparent, which I had actually done before, but the folder structure was wrong... Will repeat the fix for all zooms and terrain types, then upload version 1.3 tonight or tomorrow.

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Post #: 67

RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE - 8/1/2012 4:34:44 PM

Redmarkus5

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Mud fixed at all zooms levels and tested. Snow should also be fixed, but not yet tested as I don't have a WitE snow scenario yet.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29184871/The%20WitE%20Map%20Mod%20for%20DCCB_V1_3.zip

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Post #: 68

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/1/2012 4:47:27 PM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: goranw
Hi!
I would like to try that. Havnt succeded in finding out how to do what you describe as a possibility.
Goran

Sorry - been a bit busy.

OK:

1. Create a JPEG or BMP image of the map you want, then save it in your DCCB Graphics Folder (inside the game install). The game will only read overlays that are in the main graphics folder. NOTE - my game crashes out if I try to load JPEG overlays more than 2MB in size.

2. Load the scenario you want to edit and open the editor.

3. Your JPEG is going to auto size to fit the number of hexes on the scenario map when you load it. If you crop hexes later in the edit mode, the JPEG will resize and it is not cropped. So, play around with this until you are happy that you have the right image and right map size in the editor.

4. In Edit mode, click on 'Setng' button.

5. Now click the blue arrow shown here and then select the JPEG you saved in 'graphics'.

6. Go back to map mode and you should see the jpeg under your DCCB map.

7. If you want to use it for tracing, you are all set. If you want to actually play on it, you need to draw over it with the editor, then turn the various graphics to Transparent=True. You will also need to make your own transparent images for the Mud and Snow seasons for certain hexes, or take them from my WitE mod file set.

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Post #: 69

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/1/2012 8:25:14 PM

Redmarkus5

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And, Presto!

Case Blue on a WitE map, but a huge amount of modding will be needed:

1. Edit the terrain to match the overlay.
2. Move units to match new terrain layout.
3. Edit Game variables, events, settings etc. to reflect map changes etc.
4. Recalculate VPs if new towns are added.

And probably a lot more I don't yet understand.

BUT, it is feasible to make the game look like anything you want.

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Post #: 70

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/1/2012 8:36:32 PM

Redmarkus5

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This was 9MB JPEG, by the way, and no crash this time...

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Post #: 71

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/1/2012 9:41:42 PM

olivier34

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amazing! I had a great time playing WITE specially because of the beauty of the map. do you think you could mod the Road to leningrad scenario for exemple ?

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/1/2012 9:46:15 PM

goranw

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Hi Mark!
Thanx for your advices.
I will try around.
Put the AI in action on my WitE planning map.
As you say; a lot do do!
Goran

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 5:56:20 AM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: olivier34

amazing! I had a great time playing WITE specially because of the beauty of the map. do you think you could mod the Road to leningrad scenario for exemple ?

You can mod anything, but with a new OOB and a completely new map it's a lot more work.

It will be easiest to do this in stages. First, try to mod an existing scenario by just changing the map graphic. Next, try modding an existing events list, because that's the toughest part, as Vic has advised. Then try modding an existing OOB. Finally, you'll be ready to combine a new map, new OOB and new events list, which is what Road to Leningrad would need.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 5:57:52 AM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: goranw

Hi Mark!
Thanx for your advices.
I will try around.
Put the AI in action on my WitE planning map.
As you say; a lot do do!
Goran

Now that you have joined us it will move faster! Do you know a modder who would be good with the Events code? That's the really tough part.

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Post #: 75

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 6:01:28 AM

Redmarkus5

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Also, remember that every town on your bitmap needs to be added to the game, with a name and VP value, or you will confuse the player as to which town is important and which is not. So, I suggest using 'clean' WitE maps to reduce the effort.

Actually, I am planning to edit my WitE maps to remove all small towns. This will allow me to keep the towns in the game and just move the ones I have to. Not 100% accurate, but it will take A LOT of time off the project. Town locations can be fine tuned later.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 7:51:03 AM

goranw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Also, remember that every town on your bitmap needs to be added to the game, with a name and VP value, or you will confuse the player as to which town is important and which is not. So, I suggest using 'clean' WitE maps to reduce the effort.

Actually, I am planning to edit my WitE maps to remove all small towns. This will allow me to keep the towns in the game and just move the ones I have to. Not 100% accurate, but it will take A LOT of time off the project. Town locations can be fine tuned later.

Hi!
I think that my WitE "planning map" is not well suited for this game. At least in small scenarios. Too messy and a bit strange in colour.
If I add some names for historical information an alternative is to give that dot another colour. ( And take some other names away)
I havent even yet "though of" the Events code.
Goran

< Message edited by goranw -- 8/2/2012 12:40:05 PM >

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Post #: 77

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 8:39:13 AM

I�aki Harrizabalagatar

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Towns can be used as airfields in DC, so I imagine you should be careful with the number of towns in a map not to unbalance an scenario

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 12:53:07 PM

Redmarkus5

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Events code is very tough and 100% essential. Before you do anything more than basic modding of stock scenarios, you will need to learn it.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/2/2012 12:54:37 PM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: I�aki Harrizabalagatar

Towns can be used as airfields in DC, so I imagine you should be careful with the number of towns in a map not to unbalance an scenario

Well, maybe, but there are plenty of airfields in the stock scenarios, so I don't think it should have too much effect. Correctly recalculating the VP points is maybe more important.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/4/2012 8:12:41 AM

Blind Sniper

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Basically almost everything is moddable, this game has a great editor and you guys rocks!

< Message edited by Blind Sniper -- 8/4/2012 8:15:25 AM >

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/4/2012 8:43:40 AM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

Basically almost everything is moddable, this game has a great editor and you guys rocks!

Thanks. Yes, you can mod almost everything. Events are the main topic we really need to get to grips with - no scenario will work without the right event scripting...

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/4/2012 10:20:59 AM

LiquidSky

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Okay..I have spent some time digging into the event scripts. I exported all the events from Case Blue into the logfiles, and I get each event as a text file labeled <event number>.txt

What I would like to be able to do is type up an event and import it into the editor, in other words, the reverse of what you allow in the editor. I do know that if you use the click click click editor, it will insert all the proper values in, but I would rather have them as a printed reference and type them in, then click them in.

Otherwise I think I will go mad having to click each individual piece to script an event.

I do like that you can import events from other scenarios, but alas....sometimes it is better to start with a clean slate.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/4/2012 2:43:39 PM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

Okay..I have spent some time digging into the event scripts. I exported all the events from Case Blue into the logfiles, and I get each event as a text file labeled <event number>.txt

What I would like to be able to do is type up an event and import it into the editor, in other words, the reverse of what you allow in the editor. I do know that if you use the click click click editor, it will insert all the proper values in, but I would rather have them as a printed reference and type them in, then click them in.

Otherwise I think I will go mad having to click each individual piece to script an event.

I do like that you can import events from other scenarios, but alas....sometimes it is better to start with a clean slate.

It's a table, so it should be possible for Vic to support an import from .txt, .csv, .xls feature... I am guessing :)

If we could get a master events table in Excel (with a comment next to each event that explains what it does!) that would be a HUGE step.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 8:52:59 AM

aspqrz02

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OK, I've been looking at adding required sftypes to go with my OOB/TO&E research, and I've figured out how to add new sftypes and mod existing ones ... so far all I've done is change the 105mm LeFH into the 105mm K18 sFH (the description is obviously not of the LeFH 18(m), which is what it is meant to be) with some mods to its anti-shipping value (it was, by 1942, in the process of being transferred to coastal artillery units, of which there are a number that should be in the Crimea) and making it a Heavy Artillery type for replacements (it was Medium, but at 3x the weight of the LeFH 18(m), I felt it was better modelled as a "heavy") ... and I've also added the LeFH 18(m) as sftype 126 (slightly reduced soft attack/defence, stacking of 1 (in between the 75mm IG and the k18), medium artillery replacements and a few other things).

I've figured out how to replace it in the underlaying Unit structures and, accidentally, how to replace it within an on-map unit, but (and there's always a 'but', isn't there?) ...

* Can you replace it in all units of the same type on the map without having to do it one unit at a time, switching between map view, selecting a new unit, and then switching to unit view and modding it? If so, how?

* For units that arrive as reinforcements, does the underlaying organisation that I have created automatically apply to them, and, if not, where do I find them and how do I mod them all (preferably at once, rather than individually) to the new underlaying organisation?

* Following on from the above, I presume if I create a new "empty" unit on map, it will follow the changed organisation that I have created when requesting replacements?

I'm sure there will be more to ask, but this will do for now.

(FYI, the 105mm K18 sFH is now only in independent Artillery Regiments (and may be removed from them entirely if/when I get around to modding and placing Coastal Artillery units) and the LeFH 18(m) is in Divisional Artillery, replacing it)

Thanks everyone!

Phil

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 9:02:26 AM

Redmarkus5

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If you go to the Hist screen and click the yellow = button called 'Set all to their type', with the desired MODEL type selected in the Hist units list, then all units on the map based on the selected MODEL will be updated automatically to their full TOE, as re-defined by you in the SFT and Pre-def Units lists.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 9:03:30 AM

Redmarkus5

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MODEL is the template that all units of that type are based on. Once they are on the map they no longer refer to the MODEL except when receiving replacements or if you click the button as above.

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 9:06:02 AM

aspqrz02

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Aha! Thanks. Will do asap!

Phil

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RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 9:18:01 AM

Redmarkus5

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You need to work in a sequence like this:

1. Create the graphics (if new ones are needed)
2. Create or edit the SFT type.
3. Create or update the Pre-def (sub) unit type, e.g. Artillery Regt to use the new SFT, if relevant.
4. Look at the relevant MODEL Hist Units and satisfy yourself that the new Pre-def sub units are present. (Changing the pre-def unit's name slightly is a good check.
5. Now 'Set all to their type' for the selected MODEL type.
6. Look at the map to confirm that the change has worked.
7. SAVE NOW!!!! :)

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Post #: 89

RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing - 8/19/2012 10:19:56 AM

aspqrz02

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

You need to work in a sequence like this:

1. Create the graphics (if new ones are needed)
2. Create or edit the SFT type.
3. Create or update the Pre-def (sub) unit type, e.g. Artillery Regt to use the new SFT, if relevant.
4. Look at the relevant MODEL Hist Units and satisfy yourself that the new Pre-def sub units are present. (Changing the pre-def unit's name slightly is a good check.
5. Now 'Set all to their type' for the selected MODEL type.
6. Look at the map to confirm that the change has worked.
7. SAVE NOW!!!! :)

Actually, I've been saving between each step. Call me paranoid, but when the first screen of an Editor tells you its buggy and to save often, I pay attention!

Actually, I have a question about Step #1 that I was going to leave till later ... I am using the Historical Photo mod because I figure I have a better chance of finding photos of some of the obscure weapons etc. than I have of drawing them (as I tell my students when I am drawing diagrams or maps, "I have trouble drawing stick figures!") ... but which folder in which file are these photos? I'd like to keep my added ones in the same folder, if possible.

Likewise, do I need to use a photo manipulation program to reduce them to a particular size? Pixel x Pixel and kb?

I've seen more appropriate pictures for the two field guns I've done, and for some of the other sftypes that I have looked at the historical data for, but haven't actually added them yet.

Phil

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