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RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:26:29 AM   
John 3rd


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What do you mean?

I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.



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Post #: 2971
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:28:46 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

The reinforcements to Luzon are not enough, to say the least, if you wont to fight for it. If he has 4-5 divisions, you need the same number at least. Actually you needed them yesterday.

The idea is not not attack (well in anycase we don't have the force nor shall we have before a week. start move troops fast boy!), but rather to place a stop and a big menace to his contingent.

I fully agree with CRSutton about the immense menace of enemy's potential perspective big airbases.

For this reason I don't agree with chicken boy about the 2nd-3rd importance of the smaller Phillipines Islands, exactly the opposite, they have the same importance of Luzon.

We are out of time a little, because I,understand that there are much unsufficient forces in Philippiones now and in the very short next future (days). a pity, because the absence of Mian American Carrier Fleet cannt be exploited in this sense. Never mind, the islands are so close one to each others, that if we manage to bring close troops in land bases, they could be landed in an overnight .

Barges, many many barges needed. also AKLs. But Commander, you should have already a good number of LST, don't you?

quote:

Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.

Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.


Depends: if Main Carrier Fleet is absent, so yes, very soon, combining surface attacks as well (P.S.: PTs, where?)


His ENTIRE force is present.

My CVs just rendezvoused at Marcus and shall move SW. Am thinking about waiting and watching for an opportunity to strike a portion of his TFs either returning from the Philippines or waiting for escort up to the Philippines. The base where he gathers his shipping is Sorong.

My real opinion is delay and fight in Luzon while putting the kitchen sink into Formosa. As long as I have control there, convoys can still move along the coast going to Japan. Obviously any base in the Okinawa area would need garrisoning. Already have troops in Okinawa building AF and Forts.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 1/20/2017 1:30:46 AM >


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RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:33:27 AM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

What do you mean?

I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.





Land vs Naval , plane type ,number, targets, intensity... etc. How does recon figure into your overall strategy?

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Post #: 2973
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:34:20 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Well...damn...if I didn't know what to look for I would have missed this.

OK.

We are now in the Kamikaze business.

Any advice, lessons learned, and/or what to do/not to is very appreciated.

Train to 50+ in Low Nav. Changing settings and beginning search of units for initial volunteers...



Thanks for being our JFB Guinea Pig, John. Many following this AAR (myself included alas) haven't gotten this far before either.

HOWEVER, I've been told that something that can move fast (evade CAP as much as possible) that carries an 800kg bomb is ideal. Failing that, something that moves fast that can carry 2+ 250kg bombs is pretty good too. What are your antiquated IJAAF pools looking like?

In particular, I'd look at old models of Helens, Sallys, Oscar IIa+ (when they get the 2x250kg payload), Lillys, etc. as some of my first airframes. I'd probably buy out one of the training groups in China for use in the PI. The Oscars would be nice from an AF1 behind the enemy lines in a 'quiet' area of the front where he may overlook CAP on his transport TFs.

I've read AARs wherein large Kamikaze attacks simply gut Allied massed CVEs, so I'm not sure about the 'won't damage anything larger than a DD' comment. Even a BB, afire and damaged, is a 'mission kill'-it will have to go back to a major repair port to get rid of sizable system damage.

Lastly, I would think about combining a kamikaze offensive of several groups with a traditional LBA and KB strike on susceptible shipping in the area.

Right now his defenses on his new beachheads are tenuous and tender. I'd expedite any counterattack and get what you can while you can. Trifling 3xDD and CA+3DD sweeps that net SCs and LCIs are better than nothing, but you've got to pin down and start killing bigger game. And soon.


Readers: This is going to be a Kamikaze Training Class. I have seen success in getting through the massed CAP by coming in at 1,000 Ft. It seems to be to do some real damage/hopes for REAL damage one needs to come in damned low and damned high.

Scenario: Five Kamikaze Groups attack with conventional air. Use four of the five at 2-3,000 Ft and one at 30,000 Ft while the real strike aircraft come in at 11,000 Ft. What would you set your fighters at?

What works here and what does not?



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Post #: 2974
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:36:31 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

What do you mean?

I have 5-6 air search groups flying. Am flying recon over his Luzon bases as well.





Land vs Naval , plane type ,number, targets, intensity... etc. How does recon figure into your overall strategy?



Considering aircraft losses, I keep about 30-40 planes (mainly Emily/Judy-R) doing air search in the area blanketing the whole of the Philippines. Use the Dinah for more air search as well as direct base recon from high altitude.


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Post #: 2975
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 1:51:15 AM   
pws1225

 

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I respectfully disagree. If you lose Luzon, your LOC between the DEI and the HI are effectively cut. CR's air and naval forces will see to that. You simply must defeat his attempt to take the island. There is no other choice or you lose the war.

P.S.: I would offer advice on tactics, but as a reader of both AARs, I must refrain. I simply state the obvious on the importance of holding Luzon.

BTW, great AAR. I haven't had this much fun following the forums since Little Ship That Could was my morning dose.

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Post #: 2976
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 3:36:56 AM   
John 3rd


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Comparing our AARs to Little Ship That Could is high praised and I am honored Sir. Thank you for that thought. I loved that AAR as well.

PLEASE convey the same thought to Dan.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 1/20/2017 3:37:38 AM >


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Post #: 2977
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 7:22:19 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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I may agree 100% with what pws1225 wrote (regarding Luzon and Philippines). Allied Philippines = B 29 over Home Islands (+ conventional nuclearization of Formosa) + no more free shipping to DEI.

So why?

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 1/20/2017 7:36:00 AM >

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Post #: 2978
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 3:18:39 PM   
John 3rd


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April 8, 1944

The foxes got into the Hen House. Not an impressive haul but CA Mikuma and 4 DDs manage to sink all three TFs of LCT for total of 20. Third raid to hit pay dirt with NO LOSS.

Watching the peaceful transfer of power this day so nothing more until I get home tonight.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2979
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 4:15:18 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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This is the kind of operations we need, reiterated. slow progressive clever attrition. Also of his logistic arm.

What about your SuW an ASW? it has been a while we hadn't had an update.

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 1/20/2017 4:16:48 PM >

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Post #: 2980
RE: April 1944 - 1/20/2017 11:25:49 PM   
John 3rd


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SuW--Sub War? ASW is currently doing pretty well with 5-8 hits called out every turn. My real ASW Escorts are finally about to get rolling. Too little too late but what the heck.

Ordered the KB from Marcus to Saipan.

The 19th ID, 65th Brigade, 6th Brigade all unloaded without interference at Manila. 48th ID is three days out.



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Post #: 2981
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 3:28:30 AM   
John 3rd


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Did anyone notice Dan going over 500,000 hits on his AAR? Well Done!

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Post #: 2982
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 10:15:09 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Did anyone notice Dan going over 500,000 hits on his AAR? Well Done!
Yeah, well once that Confederate General talk starts there is no stopping folks.....:-)

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 1:04:32 PM   
Bearcat2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Did anyone notice Dan going over 500,000 hits on his AAR? Well Done!
Yeah, well once that Confederate General talk starts there is no stopping folks.....:-)



You can blame me for starting that; but it wasn't Confederate general talk, it was mainly Union general talk


In the interest of fairness, since I compared his style of play to a civil war general; I think if I had to pick a civil war general comparison to John 3rd, it would be Custer*; although lately, I think he has turned into Joe Johnston.


*The civil war Custer; not the post war Custer.

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Post #: 2984
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 1:37:02 PM   
John 3rd


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Lee called George Armstrong Custer the "worst General he'd ever met but also the luckiest." Don't quite know what to make of all that.

Dan? If you ask me...very simple answer...GRANT.


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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 1:37:03 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

You can blame me for starting that; but it wasn't Confederate general talk, it was mainly Union general talk

Well you may have started this particular brush-fire but this keeps happening so I think the undergrowth over there is like kindling because this stuff keeps popping up. Give it a week or two and there it is again. I've learned almost as much Civil War History in these forums as WWII history

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 1:44:30 PM   
MakeeLearn


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What does your Ace Roster look like?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 1:45:31 PM   
Bearcat2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Lee called George Armstrong Custer the "worst General he'd ever met but also the luckiest." Don't quite know what to make of all that.

Dan? If you ask me...very simple answer...GRANT.






Bold moves, relentless when he decided on a course of action.

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Post #: 2988
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 2:22:01 PM   
JohnDillworth


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“I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” - Napoleon
he only hired Generals he though lucky.

Dan, Grant? Yeah, thats about right. Relentless application of massive force with little regard to casualties.

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Post #: 2989
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 3:00:23 PM   
John 3rd


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Glad to see some of you fellers over here!


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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 3:00:53 PM   
John 3rd


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Just sent Dan the April 11, 1944 turn. It was not pleasant for Japan but have to go to church...

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 3:32:14 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Noooo......why.........
Nooo

We STILL can do that!

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 3:38:09 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

have to go to church...

That's some bad turn......

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 4:37:33 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” - Napoleon
he only hired Generals he though lucky.

Dan, Grant? Yeah, thats about right. Relentless application of massive force with little regard to casualties.


Can't agree. That is an oversimplification of Grant who unlike any other General in the war had a knack for capturing whole armies intact. (Donaldson, Vicksburg, Appomattox) When you look at the whole picture, that is armies destroyed and prisoners taken, the numbers even out or even favor Grant. Grant was probably the best overall military mind of that generation of commanders. Lee was just as ruthless with casualties when he thought the return would outweigh the gain. This is the way they fought battles up through World War I. It was expected that you would sacrifice massive casualties in the attack but the results came when you broke the enemy and then their losses would be greater. Dan is indeed very Grant like in his methods. Very willing to accept losses to achieve a greater gain. But in the end the results justify the means.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 1/22/2017 4:39:10 PM >


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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 5:49:45 PM   
JohnDillworth


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I don't think Grant was careless, I think he knew that he was going to have to grind the South down to a nub. He had more of everything. He was smart and well understood grand strategy. The Wilderness Campaign and the final flanking at Richmond were necessary. Grant & Sherman together were lethal. They knew what it would take and they just kept coming. As Lincoln said, He Fights

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 7:09:39 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Dan is indeed very Grant like in his methods. Very willing to accept losses to achieve a greater gain. But in the end the results justify the means.


Depends on what results are the objective. If it's to push back the Japanese conquests, that happens eventually with just about any decently compentent Allied player and a modicum of luck. (The fact that the Allies have suffered major troop losses in Sumatra and Celebes and yet still have enough for an offensive in the Phillipines speaks for itself.) If it's to pile up victory points (and this is, after all, a game), then John has clearly outplayed Dan. If it's to make for an interesting and unusual game, then Dan has done brilliantly (half a million hits!)

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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 8:01:14 PM   
John 3rd


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Grant did what no one was able t0 do in the Civil War. He could simply do the horrible math: Attack, Attack, Attack. Lincoln saw it as early as June 1864. His line "General--I begin to see it" clearly demonstrated that he and his Commanding General were on the same page. Lee was able to survive before because the Union Generals would pull back, replenish, rest, and train for a few months giving Lee's force time to recover somewhat. I always thought of it as Lee fighting with foil while Grant fought with a saber. Grant simply had to have the strategic foresight to coordinate ALL the Union Armies and keep Lee pinned to his earthworks while being ground down to nothing. 'Unconditional Surrender' Grant was brilliant.

My .02.

Dan's overcoming of the vast defeat of Sumatra is fairly easy to explain. My surface forces, particularly DDs, were gutted in that Japanese 'victory.' The CV Battle, occurring at the end of the Sumatra Campaign, nailed the coffin closed for Japan. What a horrific 'battle.' These are the week or so of turns I truly wish I could have back. Juggling those THREE games at the same time led me to take short cuts and not be as thorough as I am now. Have made the decision to never, EVER run more then one match at a time. The Carrier Clash was a disaster of epic proportions and has directly led here. Dan, correctly, saw my weakness and has exploited it. Well done by him.

To be honest I cannot help but want another match with him once this one is truly finished. That said, I am spoken for in my next game. The player waiting in the wings KNOWS who he is and I look forward to that match.

I do not have DDs right now. Last turn saw EIGHT of my very few destroyers get sunk. Very bad. RA and Between the Storms cuts down the number of First Class DDs (read Kagero/Moon-Class) with the LAST First Class DD coming out in January 1944. Now I get the 2nd Class DDs who are OK but smaller and weaker replacements. Lethal combination of events...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 1/22/2017 8:38:06 PM >


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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 9:00:43 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

I do not have DDs right now. Last turn saw EIGHT of my very few destroyers get sunk.


Thats not good. Closed waters like this are Cruiser country but neither one of you has a whole lot of those. Allies probably have more DD's then they know what to do with at this point in the war. Curious to see the turn because I suspect air didn't get 8 DD's

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Post #: 2998
RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 11:01:11 PM   
John 3rd


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SIX were sunk by Air.


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RE: April 1944 - 1/22/2017 11:03:42 PM   
Bif1961


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There was a lot more to grant then to consider him simply a General that understood he would win the battle of attrition. The one battle that Grant always regretted was Cold Harbor, VA, it was truly a repeat of Marye's Heights. However, Grants strength was always sliding around Lee, once Lee established a tough defensive position. He almost won the race to Richmond and had a near victory at the crater, but he did hem in Lee at Petersburgs and Richmond, now Lee had to play grant's game and he lost.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 1/22/2017 11:04:39 PM >

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