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RE: July 1944 - 5/17/2017 6:13:34 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Three Corps dug-in for over a year. Tried to eject them earlier this year but had no luck...


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Post #: 4261
RE: July 1944 - 5/17/2017 6:47:04 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		With all due respect, that should have been prioritized.

The positioning of that Chinese unit is interrupting not only your LCU movement but-maybe more importantly-your LOS and resource, oil and fuel 'magic transport' back to China from the rest of Indochina/Singapore/CRB.

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Post #: 4262
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 12:04:07 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

With all due respect, that should have been prioritized.

The positioning of that Chinese unit is interrupting not only your LCU movement but-maybe more importantly-your LOS and resource, oil and fuel 'magic transport' back to China from the rest of Indochina/Singapore/CRB.


I only had 2 ID and TK Div to knock those troops out and they could not do it. This was tried back in March. That path is closed. It is a serious pain-in-the-**** for troop movement but it won't STOP that movement.

There isn't any fuel moving up that direction anyway. We will move a crap ton of fuel/oil out in about 10 days time. The engagement of the Allied Fleet puts it aways from where we're moving so that is a good thing. Kido Butai will be fully concentrated by the 1st and then it will escort the TK/AO/AK/APs out. Once moved, then we'll decide on the best deployment for the Fleet.

Let us be clear about something. I have decided to AVOID a toe-to-toe fight at sea. I'll only lose all my ships and those VPs. The carriers will eventually have their aircraft stripped from them and get hidden on a remote, dustball FAR from the action and sit out the war until found.


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Post #: 4263
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 12:13:26 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Let us be clear about something. I have decided to AVOID a toe-to-toe fight at sea. I'll only lose all my ships and those VPs. The carriers will eventually have their aircraft stripped from them and get hidden on a remote, dustball FAR from the action and sit out the war until found.


Nothing wrong with that as a strategy, but boy does it get hard to hide. Your best bet is maybe a dot base in the SRA if the Allies continue to be focused elsewhere, anything around the HI will eventually be found.

Of course, they will give off radio signals every now and then...so protect against low flying 4e beasties on port strike.

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Post #: 4264
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 12:20:36 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Take heart...I was hoping to see the results of the air strike! I kept thinking with all your CVs away, that the Allies might get sloppy....it happens.

One of the weird things that happens, as the Allies push relentlessly closer to Japan, it gets easier and easier to hurt them...he has bypassed Formosa and those islands, hopefully each one has the supplies to spring some nasty surprises on him.

Try for very short naval strikes...avoid his deathstar put pick off reacting task forces.


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Post #: 4265
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 12:55:01 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The short Port Strikes are in play this coming turn. We'll see if we can get lucky.

REALLY want to hurt him on his supply lines. Just moved a Kamikaze unit and Fighter Daitai into Batan Isle and set them for Range 2. Anything that moves thru there will get hit.

The two week period he retired and allowed me to move around in the area was a godsend. I moved lots of supplies and troops around enabling all these islands and bases to go 2-3 months without major concerns for operational usage.

Pending on tomorrow's results, he will take the lead in VP for the first time.


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Post #: 4266
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 1:09:13 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Pending on tomorrow's results, he will take the lead in VP for the first time.



That is very good! Especially since you didn't take all of China and harvest all those victory points.

I forgot to mention, but a valid tactic for you would be to do some strategic bombing for victory points in Oz.

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Post #: 4267
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 2:36:23 AM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Pending on tomorrow's results, he will take the lead in VP for the first time.


Pessimist!

Pending tomorrow's results, he will experience angina, nausea, and existential ennui! Pending tomorrow's results, he will cry, wail, moan and maybe-just maybe-submissively wet himself in terror. Pending tomorrow's results, he may throw in the towel and congratulate you for your absolute superiority in all things WiTP:AE.

Or...


he may take the lead in VP for the first time.

Anything's possible.

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Post #: 4268
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 3:02:03 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks for the laugh Chickenboy! I am absolutely CERTAIN it will be the former and NOT the latter...


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Post #: 4269
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 7:17:05 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
With all due respect, that should have been prioritized.

The positioning of that Chinese unit is interrupting not only your LCU movement but-maybe more importantly-your LOS and resource, oil and fuel 'magic transport' back to China from the rest of Indochina/Singapore/CRB.

I only had 2 ID and TK Div to knock those troops out and they could not do it. This was tried back in March. That path is closed. It is a serious pain-in-the-**** for troop movement but it won't STOP that movement.

Well, at least you can station 2 IDs there and open both hexsides so that other LCUs can use the hard road. Losing time in go-around-through-jungle is too much, you can't afford it.

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Post #: 4270
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 1:25:26 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		July 29, 1944

The Allied Fleets sits and does nothing. No ships arrive at Foochow (strange) and there is no discernable movement within the Allied units. OK. Pausing is good for me. Any extra day to react is fine by this player.

HEAVY air combat over Formosa with a 1-1 exchange occurring this day:
Takao--Eight Sweeps come in and deal with 82 Fighters.
Kagi--Three Sweeps arrive vs. 38 Fighters.

Am about to bring in four fresh Frank Sentai and that might be a serious surprise to the Allied Fighter Pilots. Don't know if that will be this turn or next but 192 SASSY Japanese pilots might be a bit of a shock. Am trying to time this move to catch a bomber strike as well. The heavies flew yesterday but not today.

The Allied Fleet is somewhat divided and I wanted to see if they had ANYTHING set to Naval Attack. Here is what my sacrificial SC got:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4271
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 1:43:06 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		That could only be a fraction of the forces set on naval attack...especially if DL was high. The Deathstar is very good at assigning appropriate force on aerial strikes.

CA, BB and CV draw the strikes...really BB and CV. If you put a Battleship within range and CAP it with every fighter you have...you might really sting him.

Should have LRCAPed it with more fighters...bleed, and bleed, and bleed. Can't really fight the deathstar, but you sure can fight the planes.

Sounds like you are doing very well!


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Post #: 4272
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 2:46:17 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Doing very well at losing the war PRIOR to 1945!

Air losses for the day:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4273
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 2:52:20 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		45 T-bolts and Spits destroyed is a good number for you.

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Post #: 4274
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 3:05:11 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		He is grinding me down but it is at significant cost. My pilots losses are pretty lite. If I lose 45 planes it tends to look like 1/3 OK, 1/3 wounded, and 1/3 KIA. Not too bad.


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Post #: 4275
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 3:13:10 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		What experience / skill level are your pilots? Do you still have trained pilots in all units or just filling with recruits ?

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Post #: 4276
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 3:27:46 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

45 T-bolts and Spits destroyed is a good number for you.


Hear, hear!

He has really been losing Jugs of late. Keep it up!

You definitely won't lose the war by Jan 1 1945...unless something really unexpected happens.

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Post #: 4277
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 3:34:56 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

What experience / skill level are your pilots? Do you still have trained pilots in all units or just filling with recruits ?



Everyone is trained.

The IJA is in fantastic shape presently with a pretty vast pool of trained pilots (1,500+) waiting assignment. The IJN is frighteningly good in the frontline units but has little-to-no pool backing them up. This is why I have been fighting the Formosa battle with about 75% IJA Fighter Sentai.

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Post #: 4278
RE: July 1944 - 5/18/2017 8:44:55 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just to make Chickenboy HAPPY, I take great pleasure in stating that the Allies DID NOT take the lead in VPs this last turn.


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Post #: 4279
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 12:08:48 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Just to make Chickenboy HAPPY, I take great pleasure in stating that the Allies DID NOT take the lead in VPs this last turn.



Ha!

I KNEW it! That's what you get for being a pessimist! Now see what you can do about holding him off until January 1, 1945!

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Post #: 4280
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 12:16:56 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Now see what you can do about holding him off until January 1, 1945!


I think he has done that. Economy strong, plane production untouched. But it increasingly becomes a ground war and air war...

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Post #: 4281
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 3:37:22 AM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Now see what you can do about holding him off until January 1, 1945!


I think he has done that.


No. I was thinking about holding him off in taking the points lead until January 1, 1945.

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Post #: 4282
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 4:09:28 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I can only hope and PRAY!


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Post #: 4283
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 1:42:36 PM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		John 3rd -- and other experienced players -- I hope you can indulge me in some strategic VP considerations related to your decision to, effectively, demobilize KB relatively soon. My naive view sees basically 2 options:

1. Traditional (?) Japanese defense. Use KB, along with everything else you have, in delaying actions hitting the Allies whenever it is expedient to do so. Eventually, you guess wrong or the Allies are just too strong ... and the KB goes down. But in the meantime, you can cost the Allies significantly in time and VP from losses due to KB attacks.

2. Take my ball and go home Japanese defense. Offload the KB planes so they will still fight, but hide the CVs so that, if things go well, the Allies don't get the VPs for sinking them. The planes, especially with KB's great pilots, will cause a lot of pain for the Allies but in fairly limited areas.

So I wonder how the VP analysis goes in comparing these 2 scenarios. The KB planes will be lost eventually in either case. If you lose the KB, let's call that N VPs (N = maybe about 5000? 6000? I don't really know). On the other hand, if you keep KB active, you have much more flexibility to attack in areas that land based planes can't. This is particularly true in your game here with the crazy boundaries between the two sides covering a huge portion of the Pacific. The question is, how many VPs can an operational KB sink from the Allies as opposed to how many would a purely land based force sink. If you're looking to avoid an eventual 2-1 Allied VP win, KB is still cost effective as long as they sink N/2 points from sea more than they would from land. Frankly that doesn't seem like a stretch to me with the powerful CV force you still have, but I admit I am kind of naive and inexperienced about this.

Granted it is more complicated than that because you have to account for extra fuel and supply to keep KB active, putting some of your support shipping at risk as opposed to keeping the fuel and supply for home front defense. You'd probably need an Economics PhD to sort it all out and come up with some theoretical optimal strategy, which would then be thwarted by one fatal misclick on a critical unit at a critical time.

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Post #: 4284
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 2:57:35 PM   
AcePylut


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Status: offline 		jwolf: That makes me think of an interesting tactic… When the KB is known to be out of sight and undetected, fly all the KB planes to a land based airport. Launch an attack against the Death Star with all the KB and LBA available. This might lead to “much questioning” about the whereabouts of the KB as “I thought it was there, but then just got hit with 1000 KB planes from over here.” Of course, that’s not really possible at the moment due to the KB location, but perhaps in a month or two when the “next big amphib” invasion occurs… hindsight is 20/20, but if the KB were chilling up in the North at the moment, all its planes could be flown to Formosa or a nearby “easy to rail out to a safe” airport, then launch a strike against the Death Star, get the squadrons rebuilt after the slaughter, then put back on the KB, and banzai! Might be something to think about in the future of this match, or a future game.

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Post #: 4285
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 3:18:55 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The two of you's comments might be used in THIS game! I intend to keep the KB active but at some point we'll have to admit reality and demobilize it...


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Post #: 4286
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 3:31:54 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

jwolf: That makes me think of an interesting tactic… When the KB is known to be out of sight and undetected, fly all the KB planes to a land based airport. Launch an attack against the Death Star with all the KB and LBA available. This might lead to “much questioning” about the whereabouts of the KB as “I thought it was there, but then just got hit with 1000 KB planes from over here.” Of course, that’s not really possible at the moment due to the KB location, but perhaps in a month or two when the “next big amphib” invasion occurs… hindsight is 20/20, but if the KB were chilling up in the North at the moment, all its planes could be flown to Formosa or a nearby “easy to rail out to a safe” airport, then launch a strike against the Death Star, get the squadrons rebuilt after the slaughter, then put back on the KB, and banzai! Might be something to think about in the future of this match, or a future game.



Not sure it would work, as the attack would be so splintered...plus the range short enough the Allies would see roughly were the attack was coming from.

The KB in general flies inferior planes to their land based alternatives. The lack of the coordination bonus is huge, and cannot be overstated. The ability to position the kB in a certain spot, to hit a certain beach makes it very flexible.

About 10-20 pages ago I talked extensively about this topic. Some problems are supplies/lack of av/lack of runways without overstacking (makes those size 9 very valuable).




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Post #: 4287
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 3:43:33 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

Let us be clear about something. I have decided to AVOID a toe-to-toe fight at sea. I'll only lose all my ships and those VPs. The carriers will eventually have their aircraft stripped from them and get hidden on a remote, dustball FAR from the action and sit out the war until found.


John 3rd: the above quote from your post 4263 is what triggered my question. I may have over-interpreted that to what I called "demobilization" of the KB but it looks like you are thinking in that direction, at least to some extent.

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Post #: 4288
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 5:07:08 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		July 30,1944

As far as big events not much happens during this turn.

West Coast
I-7 bags AVD Yakutat near Victoria. This makes six Allied ships sunk by SS in five days. Nice results for mid-44.

Formosa
Kagi
Dan brings in BBs Tennessee and West Virginia to bombard the base. They do pretty well but then he neglects to Sweep it. In come five waves of B-24s and they are met by roughly 24 Fighters who damage and shot down some. That total gets added to by AA so a fairly nice result. The base is pretty well flattened so I RR the planes to Taihoku and Takao to repair. Plenty of Engineers and supply there so I can repair the base.

Takao
Eight Sweeps come over this base and they are met by a mix of 55 Fighters. Results stay in a 1-1 range so that is OK. The day after tomorrow will see four Sentai of full strength Franks arrive and that will be a rude surprise.

Foochow
He has about 30 TFs at the base. Fighters and some SBD arrived this turn. There are also 40+ units there. A movement coming West and NE is occurring. Bring in 125 Transports to Formosa and begin the massed airlift of an ID to Amoy.

Singapore
Remember all those warships that decided to upgrade? They are complete without a scratch. Order the CVs that were there bolstering the CAP to move South to join the rest of the Fleet at Soerabaja. The Soerabaja TFs are all fully fueled and we are getting ready to do some hunting while the remaining 8-12 TK are loading fuel. The CVs carry nearly 1,000 total aircraft. Will detail that later on.



For Chickenboy's knowledge Japan still maintains the lead this day! Did a screenshot of the main VP Screen for all to enjoy it:





Attachment (1)

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(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 4289
RE: July 1944 - 5/19/2017 5:09:37 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

Let us be clear about something. I have decided to AVOID a toe-to-toe fight at sea. I'll only lose all my ships and those VPs. The carriers will eventually have their aircraft stripped from them and get hidden on a remote, dustball FAR from the action and sit out the war until found.


John 3rd: the above quote from your post 4263 is what triggered my question. I may have over-interpreted that to what I called "demobilization" of the KB but it looks like you are thinking in that direction, at least to some extent.


Yep. This is the plan. We'll strike when we can but when there is no point, whatever is left shall retire to nice island enjoy the Saki and Native Girls while talking about the glory days.


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Post #: 4290
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