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RE: September 1944 - 7/5/2017 3:04:47 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Shouldn't Forts LESSON the amount of damage troops take in bombardment or air attack? It only stands to reason...


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RE: September 1944 - 7/5/2017 3:52:11 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		If you want to fight in the open you need either air superiority, or 10 good AA units present plus you need to be able to cycle in fresh AA. Then you need to structure your defensive units to absorb the air strikes.

I see no flak present in your screen picture.

Plus it is a coastal hex which means you need to structure the defense to handle the shore bombardments.

Forts are one piece of a collective puzzle that is the zen of defending as Japan in late 44.




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RE: September 1944 - 7/5/2017 8:41:37 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I need to--seriously--work on my ZEN then!

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RE: September 1944 - 7/5/2017 8:55:53 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

If you want to fight in the open you need either air superiority, or 10 good AA units present plus you need to be able to cycle in fresh AA. Then you need to structure your defensive units to absorb the air strikes.

I see no flak present in your screen picture.

Plus it is a coastal hex which means you need to structure the defense to handle the shore bombardments.

Forts are one piece of a collective puzzle that is the zen of defending as Japan in late 44.


What do you consider good AA units for the Japanese? 75mm AA guns? And by structure for air strikes you mean by putting a smaller (less important) unit above them in the LCU list correct?

And how do you structure for Shore Bombardments?

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Post #: 4684
RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 1:00:19 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		HOW can I make sure what unit is on top? isn't that totally random?


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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 1:57:23 AM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

HOW can I make sure what unit is on top? isn't that totally random?



I think its the lowest LCU # in the stack takes the brunt (Lowest # in the database). but not 100% sure.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 2:16:31 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

HOW can I make sure what unit is on top? isn't that totally random?



I think its the lowest LCU # in the stack takes the brunt (Lowest # in the database). but not 100% sure.

+1


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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 2:45:12 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

HOW can I make sure what unit is on top? isn't that totally random?



I think its the lowest LCU # in the stack takes the brunt (Lowest # in the database). but not 100% sure.

+1



I have noticed that this is further sorted by type of unit.

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Post #: 4688
RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 4:42:31 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		How do you mean? Can you give examples?

Thanks for the help gang! Maybe we can all learn something for future use.


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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 7:51:54 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

If you want to fight in the open you need either air superiority,





That's the reason for which I TRIED to inquire John regarding his plans and organization concerning air warfare and air superiority over southern China....

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 3:08:33 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

September 10, 1944

The new Japanese Wolf Pack arrives off the West Coast and immediately go to work on American shipping.





The Allies get such an abundance of patrol craft that there really is no excuse for not having multiple SC and PC on regular patrol all over the East Coast and HI. At this stage of the war many of them are just sitting in port as the DE and PF are so numerous. But we just tend to get lazy and complacent about rear areas.. Good job of exploiting. I am going to set some patrols in my campaign..

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 4:41:09 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

September 10, 1944

The new Japanese Wolf Pack arrives off the West Coast and immediately go to work on American shipping.





The Allies get such an abundance of patrol craft that there really is no excuse for not having multiple SC and PC on regular patrol all over the East Coast and HI. At this stage of the war many of them are just sitting in port as the DE and PF are so numerous. But we just tend to get lazy and complacent about rear areas.. Good job of exploiting. I am going to set some patrols in my campaign..



There is also no reason why the permanently restricted bombing squadrons shouldn't be ASW experts by '44.
By this point in the game submarine sorties against the west coast should be near suicidal.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 5:22:47 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

How do you mean? Can you give examples?

Thanks for the help gang! Maybe we can all learn something for future use.


Air bombardments and Naval bombardments are different, first naval:

There are a lot of variables, but if you are being pounded by large multiple task forces and have many units in the base then in general:

Any coastal defense units get targeted first, or effectively first.
Then, the largest infantry AV units get shredded. So if you have 3 divisions present they will all take a pasting, but if you have 1 division and break the other two divisions down into thirds, well then they will come thru in good shape.

So you can rotate the damage by combining and splintering full divisions day by day.

Artillery will get hit, AA hit, etc., and the more units you have to spread the shelling really helps. Even pitiful 20mm AA guns act as damage soaks and are very important.

Armor is targeted absolutely last, no matter how big the unit. Most times never suffering any damage at all.

I was unable to see any protection from naval shelling by being in reserve no pursuit mode except for coastal defense guns. If disruption gets very high, or disablements on the guns, go ahead and stick them in reserve no pursuit for a few days.

Flying LRCAP with NF over the base down low, around 6K, you can occassionally knock the float plane spotters down. Big boon that.

Having a naval attack squadron flying at night helps lessen the impact of naval bombardments, as the ships won't fire as much if they have been attacked by planes. This holds true for ships too.

Forts and terrain and weather and moonlight and dl all effect shore bombardments.

The nastiest naval bombardments come from amphibious landings, even just supply. There is a differnet targeting priority there and the ships really fire off the ammunition. Much harder to defend against. One APD unloading supply in a BB/CA heavy amphibious group is a definite game exploit.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 5:32:52 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

September 10, 1944

The new Japanese Wolf Pack arrives off the West Coast and immediately go to work on American shipping.





The Allies get such an abundance of patrol craft that there really is no excuse for not having multiple SC and PC on regular patrol all over the East Coast and HI. At this stage of the war many of them are just sitting in port as the DE and PF are so numerous. But we just tend to get lazy and complacent about rear areas.. Good job of exploiting. I am going to set some patrols in my campaign..



There is also no reason why the permanently restricted bombing squadrons shouldn't be ASW experts by '44.
By this point in the game submarine sorties against the west coast should be near suicidal.


Unless the Allied ASW efforts are leaden, delayed and ineffectual. Which appears to be the case in this game.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 6:08:07 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

September 10, 1944

The new Japanese Wolf Pack arrives off the West Coast and immediately go to work on American shipping.





The Allies get such an abundance of patrol craft that there really is no excuse for not having multiple SC and PC on regular patrol all over the East Coast and HI. At this stage of the war many of them are just sitting in port as the DE and PF are so numerous. But we just tend to get lazy and complacent about rear areas.. Good job of exploiting. I am going to set some patrols in my campaign..



There is also no reason why the permanently restricted bombing squadrons shouldn't be ASW experts by '44.
By this point in the game submarine sorties against the west coast should be near suicidal.


Unless the Allied ASW efforts are leaden, delayed and ineffectual. Which appears to be the case in this game.


Yep, you aren't kidding.

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Post #: 4695
RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 6:57:41 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Status: offline 		Or almost irrelevant to the outcome of the game. Effort vs. reward . . . always difficult for the Allies when your responsible for several thousand ships in 44-45. Click fatigue is a real thing.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 10:59:42 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

September 10, 1944

The new Japanese Wolf Pack arrives off the West Coast and immediately go to work on American shipping.





The Allies get such an abundance of patrol craft that there really is no excuse for not having multiple SC and PC on regular patrol all over the East Coast and HI. At this stage of the war many of them are just sitting in port as the DE and PF are so numerous. But we just tend to get lazy and complacent about rear areas.. Good job of exploiting. I am going to set some patrols in my campaign..



There is also no reason why the permanently restricted bombing squadrons shouldn't be ASW experts by '44.
By this point in the game submarine sorties against the west coast should be near suicidal.


Man--I do agree with that Hans!


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Post #: 4697
RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 11:02:08 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		LOTS of events on the September 12th turn. Spent a long day with the stores and need to take the boys out for dinner. Will update after that.


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RE: September 1944 - 7/6/2017 11:17:37 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Or almost irrelevant to the outcome of the game. Effort vs. reward . . . always difficult for the Allies when your responsible for several thousand ships in 44-45. Click fatigue is a real thing.


Do I think that bagging a few underdefended xAKs off the US Coast will 'change' anything meaningful in the outcome of the game? Goodness no. There is effectively NOTHING that will change the outcome of the game in late 1944.

I was responding to a supposition about effort vs. reward. Exactly my point. The Allied player in this case has shown that he doesn't really care about attention to that much detail. He's drawn the line on the other side of the 'effort versus reward' side of this ledger. Kind of like letting a very good infantry division capture an island while totally unprepared. Oops. Again. So he's letting these sort of things slip.

In general his approach to ASW has been poorly addressed. I'm not surprised-that seems kind of his speed for games such as this. Meticulous attention to detail isn't in his wheelhouse for some things.

If the Allied player doesn't spend any time doing something about holes in his ASW screen, it's unreasonable to assume that he 'should be' an ASW ace. Thankfully, the game doesn't 'gift' any such notions. You want to get something done in this game, you've got to do it, not just assume that the non-sexy and tedious will take care of themselves.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 7/6/2017 11:19:30 PM >

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Post #: 4699
RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 2:04:08 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Man...what the Poultry Man said! My SS have been allowed to rack up mass sinkings repeatedly throughout the war. Am not complaining and am taking advantage of that whenever possible.


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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 3:15:49 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		September 13, 1944

The Allies run into something that they don't expect at Taihoku. There are three engagements between the CL--DD TF between these 4 DD, then 4 more DDs, and finally a TF of 8 DD during the morning. Amazingly, Japan loses a single DD in exchange for damage to 8 DDs (4 seriously). Not too bad...

Course the STF just misses two Bombardment TF made up of BB New Jersey/Iowa, CA, CL, CLAA and 6 Dds followed by BB Colorado/Maryland, CA, CL, and 6 DD. Might have been depressingly fun to watch the small boys take on some big boys. Key word would have been depressingly...





Attachment (1)

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 3:18:37 AM   
John 3rd


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At Tokyo, Tankers begin unloading their precious cargo...
At Nagoya, Tankers begin unloading their precious cargo...
At Osaka, Tankers begin unloading their precious cargo...

With the loss of just two Tankers to Submarines, the entire TK-6 Convoy gets through to drop off a total of 397,000 Fuel and 238,000 Oil.

The Empire just filled its tank team!


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/7/2017 3:19:16 AM >

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 3:30:46 AM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		A good day!

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 4:33:18 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Damn...we go from sputtering along to HI building and supply coming on IMMEDIATELY. Very nice.

FYI: Life is getting more-and-more busy as we approach, hopefully, buying both stores. This is really going to impact time for the campaign and AAR. Knew this going in but just wanted to say it out loud.


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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 4:44:41 PM   
Aurorus

 

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Status: offline 		Very nicely done on the tankers. A question.

As you gather dispersed units for defense of the home islands from around the Pacific, have you considered instead, counter-offensives and amphibious landings at allied rear-area bases, rather than gathering these units to Honshu? What would be the risks and the rewards of such operations? I do not know exactly what your supply situation is in SoPAC, in the Aleutians, or in what remains of the DEI, so obviously, any such activity would depend on what supply pools and fuel pools are available to you outside Japan.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 4:54:14 PM   
HansBolter


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Status: offline 		Not having any experience with the Japanese side in AE ( I did dabble a bit on the dark side in WITP) I have no way to gauge how long that dose of oil and fuel will be good for.

What is your estimate?

Is it enough to see you through the remainder of the war?

Is it good for 6 months?

How long before you have to try to pull it off again?

Well done, BTW. Your opponent is so focused on his objectives that he isn't giving much consideration to what you may really be up to behind the façade.

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 4:58:59 PM   
Jellicoe


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Status: offline 		Agree with Hans

Would argue that getting that last convoy back was arguably a bigger achievement than the KB pincer round Australia many many moons ago

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 5:23:59 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Not having any experience with the Japanese side in AE ( I did dabble a bit on the dark side in WITP) I have no way to gauge how long that dose of oil and fuel will be good for.

What is your estimate?

Is it enough to see you through the remainder of the war?

Is it good for 6 months?

How long before you have to try to pull it off again?

Well done, BTW. Your opponent is so focused on his objectives that he isn't giving much consideration to what you may really be up to behind the façade.


Hans, that oil and fuel is unbelievably important at this stage for Japan. The oil will keep the refs pumping out fuel, but alas no supply, while the fuel will keep industry chugging along. Very important Japan doesn't wast the fuel filling worthless ships...which means thinking about every task force before creating it (a hidden art).

Japan has been running hither and yon all game...and as a reward is low in fuel but still has almost all of the industry still churning away. Quite the accomplishment.

How long will it last... a lot depends upon the Allies. Once the HI centers are destroyed the fuel is a lot less important (Cptn Obvious here). It is critical Japan protect the HI on Honshu now to keep it working as I think Japan is short on war material pools.

Japan nominally uses around 12k of fuel per day for hvy industry and can refine around 12k oil a day which yields a negative balance. Mods vary.

Japan has done a stellar job of threading the fuel and oil back to Japan...and the Allies haven't really tried to stop it all, and yet it has been in their power to do so since at least June.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/7/2017 5:26:13 PM >

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RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 5:39:53 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Hans, that oil and fuel is unbelievably important at this stage for Japan. The oil will keep the refs pumping out fuel, but alas no supply, while the fuel will keep industry chugging along. Very important Japan doesn't wast the fuel filling worthless ships...which means thinking about every task force before creating it (a hidden art).

Japan has been running hither and yon all game...and as a reward is low in fuel but still has almost all of the industry still churning away. Quite the accomplishment.

How long will it last... a lot depends upon the Allies. Once the HI centers are destroyed the fuel is a lot less important (Cptn Obvious here). It is critical Japan protect the HI on Honshu now to keep it working as I think Japan is short on war material pools.

Japan nominally uses around 12k of fuel per day for hvy industry and can refine around 12k oil a day which yields a negative balance. Mods vary.

Japan has done a stellar job of threading the fuel and oil back to Japan...and the Allies haven't really tried to stop it all, and yet it has been in their power to do so since at least June.




At this point, all excess fuel in unused AKs, APs, and AKLs can be siphoned off to combat vessels, so if John has some fuel in his AKs and support ships, this will probably suffice to sustain the surface fleet until the end of the war. Most of the fuel that arrived will likely go to heavy industry. The Home islands run a daily deficit of about 6000 fuel in stock, which varies somewhat with mods. He just brought in almost 600,000. That should keep the industry going for about 3-4 months.

Who fills TFs automatically when creating them (unless by accident)? BTW, that is my great pet peeve about the Beta. In the Beta, ports try to automatically top off every TF if it is not set to "do not refuel" on the TF creation screen. The last thing that I want to do is top off an AK with fuel when it already has endurance sufficient for 7000 miles of sea travel.

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Post #: 4709
RE: September 1944 - 7/7/2017 6:05:14 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus



Who fills TFs automatically when creating them (unless by accident)?



I think lots of people do. When I see pictures of tracker screens and see the size of the fuel bunker, I feel very confident that it is a widespread failing.

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Post #: 4710
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