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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 6:35:56 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/13/44

John's Email: "Goodness. I can do this for days and days." He's referring to Nagasaki.

Air Raid Nagasaki: Very tough fighting over Nagasaki today, where the Allies lose 95 Corsairs and 11 Hellcats. The Japanese lose 180 good fighters.

The sweeps come in dispersed this time, which probably accounts for the higher losses. But the fighters did a magnificent job of clearing out opposition. The Avengers and B-29s didn't encounter any CAP and scored a lot of hits.

Here are the air battle losses for the day, along with the Intel Screen, which gives info regarding total Strat points scored.

Overall, the Allied lead is up to 33k. The pace has picked up considerably since Death Star returned to theater.







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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/2/2017 6:37:25 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 6:49:52 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Nagasaki: The fighters cleared out the opposition for the Avengers, which scored well with modest losses.

Then the Superforts came in - daylight raid at 10k - and scored many hits against Manpower, totaling about 50k on the day (reduced on the screenie as the fires are put out during the course of the day).

Overall, the air attack today went pretty well. Corsair losses were high but bomber losses were low, and a lot of hits scored.

Tomorrow I'm going to switch things around. LBA fighters from Ningpo are going to hit Nagasaki, preceded by nighttime B-24J raids against the airfield and B-29 raids against Manpower.

The main carrier sweeps and Avenger attacks will target Fukuoka. I think fighter op there is about half what I'm seeing at Nagasaki.

After Fukuoka, I'll probably retire the carriers to Foochow or Taichu to replace fighter frames, rest everybody for a few days, and think about Phase II. That might include using the Corsairs as LBA from Ningpo.

This is a high pace of operations. I can't indefinitely continue losing 90 Corsairs a day, as I did today, or 33 B-24Js, as I did three days back. But Japanese fighter losses are high and Allied points scored are high.

The Allied lead is increasing now at between 500 and 1,000 points per day - two to four times what we had seen previously. The pace will fluctuate as the carriers pull back or come forward. But John's going to have to do something if he wants the game to last more than about three more months.







]

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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/2/2017 7:28:25 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 7:10:06 AM   
Canoerebel


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Fancy Pants: Cam Ranh Bay falls. Nothing left in Indochina but mop-up duty. In China, important attack tomorrow to the WNW of Hangchow. John has ideas on the Canton/Kukong fronts; I thin I can stymie him, but the situation is early and still developing.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/2/2017 7:29:02 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 11:26:23 AM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		It depends on which one of you can replenish & prevent the other from doing so...if you've burned out the city of all of its strategic value, then the only reason to continue would be to attrit John's Air Force.

Have you thought about using your carrier air to draw him to a target, then switch your bombers to other targets - suck his fighters away from the main action?

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 1:45:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If I understand your question, paullus, that's what I did for next turn. LBA will hit Nagasaki while carrier air switches to Fukuoka. Here's how I put it a few posts above:

"Tomorrow I'm going to switch things around. LBA fighters from Ningpo are going to hit Nagasaki, preceded by nighttime B-24J raids against the airfield and B-29 raids against Manpower.

"The main carrier sweeps and Avenger attacks will target Fukuoka. I think fighter op there is about half what I'm seeing at Nagasaki."

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 6:37:43 PM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		Ah, that's exactly right.

Thank you for the clarification.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 10:42:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Weather prevented the main Allied carrier missions against Fukuoka. John had stood down his fighters at Nagasaki. He thought I had stood down my main raiding force too. That led him to write: "Looks like you and had similar ideas this turn."

Raid On Nagasaki: The B-29s came in on a low-level night mission and scored a decent number of Manpower hits with modest ops losses. The B-24Js at Ningpo, set to hit the airfield, failed to fly due to weather.

Most of the aircraft losses on the day were over China. I note that the P-51D isn't performing well against good IJ fighters...or perhaps its me not using them right.

I read this into John's actions at Nagasaki: The industry is in bad shape and there was little to lose by him standing down his fighters...and yet, it's interesting that he felt it advisable to stand them down. He's probably winded a bit.

I'm going to try again tomorrow. Nagasaki: Night B-24J raids against airfield; daytime P-51D, P-47, and P-38 sweeps from Ningpo.

Fukuoka: Massed carrier fighter sweeps and Avenger raids on industry.

Shimonseki: Nightime low-altitude B-29 raid vs. Manpower.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/2/2017 10:58:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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Fancy Pants: Hangchow campaign beginning to take shape. I think the garrison is having some trouble handling daily bombings and bombardments. If John doesn't reinforce, I'll try a probing deliberate attack in a few more days.

I'm most interested in figuring out what's going on in the Kukong and Canton areas. John has more than 100k men here. But forces have not yet coalesced in such a way that a battle seems imminent.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 1:11:21 AM   
Flicker

 

Posts: 229
Joined: 11/24/2011
From: Rocket City USA
Status: offline 		Curious about (the lack of) kamikazes. IIRC they are available.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 2:05:23 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John has used kamikazes infrequently and in small numbers. The most recent appearance was near Aparri, Luzon, about ten days back. About 20 Judys damaged two LSI(L) and one or two smaller ships.

John's waiting for the right and overwhelming chance. I thought parking Death Star near Nagasaki might be it.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 4:25:06 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

John's waiting for the right and overwhelming chance. I thought parking Death Star near Nagasaki might be it.


The spirit of Joe Johnston -- he never did seem to find the right time to strike.

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--Victor Hugo

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 5:56:04 AM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		The Naval air battle that never was and may never be . . .

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 3:18:38 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I note that the P-51D isn't performing well against good IJ fighters...or perhaps its me not using them right.


They do not perform in game as they did historically. Just another cross to bear.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 3:32:32 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I note that the P-51D isn't performing well against good IJ fighters...or perhaps its me not using them right.


They do not perform in game as they did historically. Just another cross to bear.


I find them acceptable, but not great.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 3:34:59 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I note that the P-51D isn't performing well against good IJ fighters...or perhaps its me not using them right.


They do not perform in game as they did historically. Just another cross to bear.


I find them acceptable, but not great.


They do as well as the P-40K, at least as far as I can see. For an end-war air superiority fighter, that's just sad.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 4:12:41 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I think you need to find the Mustang's niche. I am a firm believer every plane has a role and a useful one at that.

Interesting to see the 2nd Tank rise from the ashes. Where is the 1st Tank?

Nice to see some PT boats doing something useful.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 4:20:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Jeff, I haven't forgotten your words about 2nd Tank Division rebuilding after its most recent disaster. Thanks to you, it's reappearance in strength didn't come as a terrific surprise. The dadgum unit is gonna be a vampire. I'll have to keep re-killing it until I can drive a stake through it's hard. (Same with 3rd Tank Division, for that matter).

I haven't seen 1st Tank Division recently. I'm not sure I've ever seen it. Perhaps it's still in regiment format.

You also inspired the increased pace of PT boat use.

I'm searching for the P-51Ds role. At this point I'm going to re-try both the Mustang and the P-38L as long range sweepers. I know that's not ideal but they have the legs to hit Kyushu. So do the P-47D25s, which I'm also using in that role. I want to see if the Mustangs and Lightnings can efficiently contribute in an environment in which the enemy fighters may be fatigued. If they can't, I'll try something else. (I do know the Lightning's benefits in LRCAP over ships role.)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 6:14:59 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I note that the P-51D isn't performing well against good IJ fighters...or perhaps its me not using them right.


They do not perform in game as they did historically. Just another cross to bear.


I find them acceptable, but not great.


They do as well as the P-40K, at least as far as I can see. For an end-war air superiority fighter, that's just sad.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think you need to find the Mustang's niche. I am a firm believer every plane has a role and a useful one at that.

Interesting to see the 2nd Tank rise from the ashes. Where is the 1st Tank?

Nice to see some PT boats doing something useful.


I don't use them on CAP, ever, maybe that's why my opinion differs. I can see how on CAP they would perform similarly to the P-40K (which is honestly a decent plane, especially for CAP).

I use them on sweeps only. They don't perform as well as the P-47N, but they do OK. Better than the P-38, anyway.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/3/2017 7:38:35 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Raid on the Home Islands: The air raids sorta fizzled today, as Avengers didn't sortie, Liberators did nothing, B-29s scored modestly, and sweeps fought to a stand-off.

It's time for my carriers to replenish in port. My fighters haven't stood down since....probably in four or five months. So even though they are always set at 0 range (except when sweeping), frame wear and tear is pretty elevated. I'll rest things for a week or so and then return with a vengeance, unless KB arrives in the meantime to mix up the deck.

Overall, I think the Home Islands raid went pretty well. Tough fighting by both sides. I've learned some things and will do a few things differently. But overall I'm satisfied that carrier air can play a major role in the Strategic Bombing campaign.

John's gonna have to bring his carriers home. If he doesn't, he's going to suffer the ignominy of the Empire going down in flames in March 1945 while a stout KB is cruising the sunny waters of the DEI.

Fancy Pants: I think there's a weakness in the garrison at Hangchow. I'll test it in two or three days. This is a key base - the last step before Shanghai. I'd like to wrap up Hangchow before New Year's Day. Whether that's feasible I should know soon.

I have a better feel now for the Canton/Kukong fronts. John has a massive army at Kukong that is sorta out on a limb - no good route of egress. His army at Canton is not real strong - it's okay to hold the city due to 4x urban - but there's not enough there to make a difference for Kukong.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 1:45:07 AM   
Canoerebel


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Fancy Pants: First probing deliberate attack at Hangchow tomorrow. I believe I perceive a weakness there. That's unexpected. John has two divisions. Under daily ship bombardments and 2EB and 4EB raids, the AV of those two divisions has diminished to just under 200 each.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 6:25:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Air Raid on Canton Shipping: It's pretty rare that Allied bombers get in a big lick against vulnerable enemy shipping, so this turn was memorable.

It's important for two reasons: I don't mind John feeding troops into the China vortex but didn't want him bringing in vast quantities of supply. NavSearch reported this as a massive TF, so there was concern.

Secondly, it probably won't be necessary to detail Death Star to the Canton area now. John is likely to draw away, a bit, and LBA and a little CVE TF may be able to put a stop to wholesale Japanese access to Canton and Hong Kong.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 6:45:38 PM   
Canoerebel


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Fancy Pants: Hangchow is the most significant item of the day. The probing Allied attack shows that the garrison is weak and about ready to fall. I had expected Hangchow to be a long, tough battle. If John doesn't reinforce seriously in a day or three, it will fall. Then it's on to Shanghai.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 6:49:14 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
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Status: offline 		Horse may be out of the barn on supply. There have been red ships on the map near there on just about every map you posted in the last 3 months. John was either coming or going and it does not look like he was going.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 6:55:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Each Japanese stack attacked in China seems to have a supply malus. So supply is probably an issue for John. For sure, Canton and Hong Kong will struggle if the Allied air force basically has free reign to attack. I'll turn fully to them once Hangchow and Shanghai are finished.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 6:59:32 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
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From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Jeff, I haven't forgotten your words about 2nd Tank Division rebuilding after its most recent disaster. Thanks to you, it's reappearance in strength didn't come as a terrific surprise. The dadgum unit is gonna be a vampire. I'll have to keep re-killing it until I can drive a stake through it's hard. (Same with 3rd Tank Division, for that matter).

I haven't seen 1st Tank Division recently. I'm not sure I've ever seen it. Perhaps it's still in regiment format.

You also inspired the increased pace of PT boat use.

I'm searching for the P-51Ds role. At this point I'm going to re-try both the Mustang and the P-38L as long range sweepers. I know that's not ideal but they have the legs to hit Kyushu. So do the P-47D25s, which I'm also using in that role. I want to see if the Mustangs and Lightnings can efficiently contribute in an environment in which the enemy fighters may be fatigued. If they can't, I'll try something else. (I do know the Lightning's benefits in LRCAP over ships role.)


Yes, I remember sweeping and also as long range cap over bomber targets worked best for them. Lightnings were good sweepers but that was about it due to the service rating.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 7:12:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/17/44

Long time readers with superb memories for arcane details will recall that I didn't begin focusing on "harvesting victory points" until summer or early autumn '44. Until then, every focus was on getting into a position to harvest, at whatever the cost.

Since then, efficient harvesting them has been critical. While I don't have a particular target for auto victory, there's a general desire to make it happens as quickly as possible without taking chances that might delay things greatly.

I have a general notion that victory is mostly likely to take place sometime between February 1 and May 31, 1945. March or April is most likely.

By autumn, I had a general idea that the Allies might be addressing Shanghai around New Year's. That's pretty close.

I had an loose objective of achieving 20k strategic points by the end of the year. That'll be exceeded by a bit.

And there was a loose objective of being halfway to auto victory by the end of the year. IE, the Japanese have about a 68.8k points, so I need to have a 34.4k lead to be halfway to victory. I'm at 34.0k, so getting close.

Strategic Bombing is definitely the most efficient way to earn points. The second most efficient is probably getting cracks at lots of shipping points at low risk to my air or naval assets. The third might be wiping out large armies, when that's possible.

Another objective - this one set a year or more back - was to close the Army Loss Points spread to perhaps 1.5:1 in favor of Japan. At the time, John led 21k to 3k, for a 7:1 lead. It's now at 24.5k to 15.5k. So I'm close. The Allies should exceed the original objective. 1:1 might be tough, but it isn't impossible.





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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/4/2017 7:14:24 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/4/2017 9:49:15 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

Long time readers with superb memories for arcane details will recall that I didn't begin focusing on "harvesting victory points" until summer or early autumn '44. Until then, every focus was on getting into a position to harvest, at whatever the cost...



So are you saying you have a "harvesting malus " or that you are "malus harvesting" ?





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/5/2017 12:43:03 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/19/44

Strategic Map: Every game veers from history and into the surreal, more or less. So it is with this one. John is reinforcing the DEI and Coral Sea regions, even while China is a flaming mess, Death Star is sitting off the coast of Kyushu, and the Allies hold Formosa and Luzon.

We're upside down, yet on some levels it's sensible.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/5/2017 12:47:12 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

We're upside down, yet on some levels it's sensible.

...if he can smash some hapless invasion force that isn't equipped for reinforced defenses that will bolster his anti-autovic efforts.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/5/2017 1:10:15 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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Status: offline 		I dare say Sinko Maru sank.

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