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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 4:36:01 AM   
JeffroK


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I reckon the war would have finished far sooner if after Sumatra you.............

Well done, steering the Allied Steamroller is an art, what do you do and where do you do it. You chose an approach and stuck to it. Once you learn the finer arts of the game you could be dangerous.

I'll also add that JIII played a bad game, after (actually during) your Sumatra campaign he has run around in circles and reacted far too late to your approaches.

Have fun against Obvert, should be a different level of opponent.

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(in reply to Lovejoy)
Post #: 14041
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 5:12:13 AM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
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Congratulations on your victory and to both of you on your great competition!

"The Good The Bad & The Indifferent" AAR is done?! I might have to start drinking...

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Post #: 14042
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 5:48:54 AM   
apbarog


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Congratulations, and thanks for your work on this AAR. It has been a daily read of mine since day 1. Always something interesting, whether it be in-game or in-life or in-history.

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Post #: 14043
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 6:39:45 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Congratulations, and thanks for your work on this AAR. It has been a daily read of mine since day 1. Always something interesting, whether it be in-game or in-life or in-history.


What he said, many times over. Great suspense novel in your AAR and game play.

BTW, speaking of 2:1, the post count in your AAR is over double the post count of John's! I'll read his now to see how things looked from his perspective.
Kudos to you both!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to apbarog)
Post #: 14044
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 7:14:55 AM   
Barb


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A bit of anticlimax within climactic air battles :) Somehow similar to the two A-bombs ending things with all pretty well being poised and prepared for operation Olympic/Coronet (Downfall). One day you are at the thick of it dishing it out, and the next one you found yourself without real purpose...

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Post #: 14045
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 7:23:54 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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"but early on I'm likely to spend alot more time outdoors, running, hiking and mountain biking. March, April and May in Georgia are (usually) superb months for outdoors activities. "


Congrs for your
real
victory sir, thanks to the L-rd.


Can you read now John's thread?

Is it possible to speak openly about it?

In my opinion, John's single major mistake was in not battling you harder, much harder in Luzon.

Otherwise, he's been a superlative Japanese player always, even beyond belief.

(in reply to Lovejoy)
Post #: 14046
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 7:47:12 AM   
Smoky Stoker


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Dan-

It seemed likely that you would beat the historical victory date for the last couple of years, but big congratulations on doing so. You fought well and JIII fought on after the conclusion was no longer in doubt, which makes both of you guys I would like to have on my side. Equally, thank you for the incredible amount of work you put in on this AAR.

< Message edited by Smoky Stoker -- 2/26/2018 7:49:19 AM >


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"Leveling large cities has a tendency to alienate the affections of the inhabitants and does not create an atmosphere of international good will after the war." -Rear Admiral Daniel V. Gallery

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 14047
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 10:45:03 AM   
Miller


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Well played Sir.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 10:48:08 AM   
Encircled


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Great read and well done!

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Post #: 14049
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 11:33:02 AM   
Bearcat2

 

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Congratulations on your victory !!
Thanks for the AAR, it was entertaining and I learned a lot.



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"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837

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Post #: 14050
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 12:00:34 PM   
MakeeLearn


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In din of battle whisper of cease
time for war, noon , time for peace
Waves shall not awash valor and deed
nor with sunset their memory cede









Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 2/26/2018 3:55:38 PM >

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Post #: 14051
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 12:47:39 PM   
Chickenboy


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Congratulations to you and John for finishing this game after so many years.

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Post #: 14052
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 12:56:04 PM   
Lowpe


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Congratulations of finishing this beast of a game with a dedicated and excellent AAR to boot!

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Post #: 14053
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 1:49:49 PM   
Mike McCreery


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Congratulations on the victory and thanks for another great AAR.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:03:02 PM   
Drakanel

 

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Congratulations, and thanks a lot for the AAR. It was quite fun though I did not follow it since the beginning.

Curious to see where your game with Obvert will go now.

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Post #: 14055
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:06:00 PM   
paullus99


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Congratulations - this has been one hell of an AAR.

Best of luck with all of your future endeavors.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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Post #: 14056
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:09:06 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Thanks to each of you writing. Messages from all you guys are much appreciated, whether you are frequent contributors, lurkers, regulars or newcomers.

I haven't heard from John yet, so I don't know his desires about continuing or halting. I assume the latter but won't act on that until he sends confirmation.

One other aspect of the fun of the game was creating the diagrams. Those took a lot of time. It was fun when I had the time and stressful when time was short. But it was also time spent usefully. Through this and through a class I've been teaching the past few years, I've learned something about creating and displaying images. I'm not going to receive any calls from National Geographic or Smithsonian to do their work, but what I've learned is sufficient for the classes I teach and the occasions when I do historical presentations. Hey, AE is educational in so many ways!

(in reply to Drakanel)
Post #: 14057
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:16:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Just received this from John III:

Picked up by radio throughout the Pacific and Indian Ocean Theatres:

May 11, 1945
0800 Hours Tokyo Time

TO: Admiral Chester Nimitz (Daniel Roper)
FROM: Prime Minister Yamamoto (John R. Cochran, III)

As the leading representative of the Empire of Japan we, hereby, surrender unconditionally to the Allied air, sea, and land forces arrayed against us.

All Imperial Forces shall stand down immediately.

Please listen to Radio Tokyo at 1200 Hours Tokyo time for a message from the Emperor of Japan.

It is done and well fought Sir. I had to finish my AAR narrative before I could send this.
John

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14058
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:16:30 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Well Dan, I have been dying to ask for about a year. Where you aware that John was bringing millions of gallons of fuel and oil from the DEI to Japan up until about a week ago? Huge convoys of tankers have been plowing the seas unmolested keeping the industries humming at full capacity.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14059
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:27:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Someone noted early today or last night that this has an element of "coitus interruptus" (my term, no this). Indeed it does:

1. The Western Allied army in Korea and China is 60% to 70% prepped for Japan.
2. 1st Australian Division and many other units are in the DEI and fully prepped for targets in Java.
3. Fusan was likely to fall within ten days unless reinforced (possible but unlikely).
4. Singers would take some doing but would fall within a month or two.

With Korea and China all but done, I would detach the fast carrier component of Death Star for service in the DEI, leaving the CVEs and many of the BBs in the Yellow Sea region.

Death Star would cover the movement of additional troops to Malaya (7th Aussie Div. needs to be picked up from Mindanao, where John has some big airfields). 8th Indian Div. just arrived in Malaya but will need a week to reach Singers.

Then DS would move to the eastern DEI to cover the invasion of Java. From there it would escort 2.5 million supply from Boela to Korea.

The biggest issue is Allied 4EB numbers. I pushed them hard to close out the game. Too hard. My B-24 squadrons are whittled down to nothing. I'd have to consolidate them, but I have nothing to swap out squadrons to. The USAAF has no bombers in the pools at all. B-29B numbers are decent and would be able to dish out some punishment but not on the scale we've seen thus far.

There are a decent number of B-25 and other 2EBs in the DEI. I need some of them to deal with Singers. They probably don't have the legs or the endurance to handle a campaign against Tokyo from Korea, but I'd look into that.

In two months time, the Allies would hold all of mainland Asia including Singapore, probably most of Java and part of Sumatra. John wouldn't have any safe harbors left in the DEI. The Allies probably by then would've landed in the Home Islands, beginning the long, tough campaign to take city by city. Taking a big base or two west of Tokyo would allow the 2EB (and reinforced 4EB squadrons) to target all of the Home Islands and the Kuriles. John would probably be able to hide his fleet in small, remote bases for awhile but eventually the hiding places would be eliminated.

By August 1945, I doubt there would be anything left in a meaningful sense.

But the wise actions of the enemy leader today save us from that exercise in futility. I'd likely be the only one who'd enjoy laying waste to the Empire.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14060
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:35:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
Well Dan, I have been dying to ask for about a year. Where you aware that John was bringing millions of gallons of fuel and oil from the DEI to Japan up until about a week ago? Huge convoys of tankers have been plowing the seas unmolested keeping the industries humming at full capacity.


Sure. John's only route of egress was through the Makassar Strait, then south of Mindanao and then north to the Home Islands. I saw each of his convoys leave. Usually they were escorted by carriers. Rarely they weren't.

You're wondering why I permitted that? The answer is complex and long, as mine often are. It's an interesting question, so I'll answer it in full shortly.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 14061
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 2:52:35 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Allied objectives, from the start of the war: (1) attrition the enemy fleet; (2) interdict the flow of resources from the DEI; (3) close on the Home Islands to engage in strategic bombing. (I think I posted to that effect a dozen times in the AAR, as many of you might recall).

As Big Tent successfully unfolded in October 1943, I was in position to work on (2) but it was also clear John had gaping holes in his defenses that would allow me to achieve (3). To my way of thinking, (3) was more efficient than (2) - shooting in the head is quicker than strangling - so as long as those gaping holes existed, I steered the Allies north rather than west. Luzon was open. Coastal China was open. Formosa was open. The Shanghai region was open. Korea was open.

Bear in mind I have limited experience in the late game. I had picked up the idea from some excellent players that it was possible to score "a thousand points a day" via strategic bombing. Had I been able to achieve that kind of success, the war would've ended in early '45 (probably February) and these questions wouldn't even come up. But I couldn't achieve that, partly due to my inexperience, partly due the learning curve; partly due to John's fighters and tactics, and partly because I think bombing from Luzon and even Formosa against an an alert, experienced foe is far harder than folks think (it was for me, anyhow).

But what about all those convoys? Interdicting them would take far more time and resources than people realize and would exact an opportunity cost far greater than what I was doing. I knew I was better off with Death Star in the Yellow Sea region, handling the direct throttling of the Empire rather than working a time-consuming and possibly inefficient strangling campaign in the south. Invading Korea is simply far better than trying to stop ships in the DEI.

Detaching smaller carrier forces or combat TFs or strike aircraft wouldn't work either, at least not efficiently. John usually used carriers to escort his convoys. If I detached carriers down that way, I'd have to use overwhelming numbers or risk him consolidating and ambushing. Ditto for combat TFs. And Allied strike aircraft didn't have the numbers or range. I tried a few times and they got chewed up. I tried enough to know that devoting assets to an uncertain strangling campaign was less efficient than employing them in China and Korea where things were much more certain.

Base forces, supply, and bomber and fighter quality and pools also entered into the equation. I need supply in Korea, not at Talaud Eilenden or Morotai hoping to eventually catch some merchantmen poorly escorted.

I had 8k AV in Korea and 11k in northern China. Supporting them while also engaging in fullscale strategic bombing was an immense undertaking at the end of a supply line that stretched from San Fran to Pago Pago to Townsville to Boela to Manila to Shanghai and Gunzan. It took everything I had to keep that LOC running smoothly. And it did run smoothly but there wasn't time or assets necessary to truly interdict enemy supply/fuel in the DEI.

Ditto 4EB. I could've bombed Palembang and Balikpapan but they were well-protected. I didn't want to devote rare resources to bomb those bases, indirectly earning points, when they could be employed directly in earning points.

There are players who would've seen other ways of doing things and could've done better. But I bet there's alot of players who would've followed the siren song of sea power - wanting to use combat TFs and carriers to pursue and engage. But when the enemy leaves his heartland wide open to invasion, the job becomes moving the armies and air forces forward, and the navy's primary role becomes serving and defending rather than attacking.

That's what was going through my head.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14062
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 3:00:23 PM   
paullus99


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If the game modeled the sub campaign more accurately (without the Uber-E's) you could have taken care of John's convoys with just the Secret Service.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14063
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 3:05:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Absolutely. I fully agree with Bullwinkle's assessment of the sub war. It's utterly nerfed in favor of Japan, but we accept that as necessary to make the game enjoyable for the Japanese player.

One reader chastised me a week or two back for my sub doctrine. That reader was wrong. You cannot employ Allied subs in waters where enemy E-class ships and air ASW are present. So I changed tactics in early '44, moving my subs to waters I controlled (against enemy raids) or in remote waters unlikely to be infested with his ASW. The cost of that was a marked decrease in attrition to enemy merchantmen. The benefit was my subs weren't wiped out and managed a number of hits on enemy capital ships, most recently CV Renkaku.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 14064
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 3:18:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/10/45

Perhaps the most startling graphic.

Allied Carriers Lost during the course of the War: Add to this total the RN CVE sunk on the final day of hostilities.

Death Star went deep into enemy waters many times, sometimes seeking enemy carriers but more often shepherding massive convoys to distant shores. Early in the war, the prospect of carrier action was daunting. After the Great Naval Battle of Wake Island in September 1943, the most daunting prospect was facing interlocking enemy airfields, kamikazes, and carriers. But that never happened.

I think the Great Naval Battle gave John a serious case of the yips. He never really threatened DS, though he blundered into it once (in the South China Sea in early '45).

I think he became so convinced that Death Star was an abuse that he concluded he'd never "feed his assets" to it. So he never employed kamikazees or unleashed his air force against DS, even when it approached Formosa or Shanghai or Fusan.

Once, perhaps five months back, a small enemy raid took on DS. Somehow a few strike aircraft penetrated and scored a hit on CA Pensacola. That kind of thing can happen, so the prospect of 1,000 kamikazes and strike aircraft and escorting fighters was frightening. Death Star was often within range of multiple big airfields, including the Home Islands. But John concluded that only an invasion of the Home Islands warranted triggering his kamikazes, so his empire imploded with little opposition.

An entire war fought, deep in enemy waters, and the Allies lost a single fleet carrier.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 14065
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 3:23:29 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
5/10/45

The second-most startling graphic, I think.

Assault Shipping Sunk: A tremendous number of risky, deep invasions resulted in only a handful of assault ships lost.

As for AKAs, two of them went under.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14066
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 4:13:56 PM   
paullus99


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I believe, when you compare total ships sunk, the numbers are going to be stunning on both sides...although I suspect John lost a far greater percentage (and tonnage).

I still can't get over your ambush of John's carriers off Wake. It was nearly perfection - and it took advantage of John's inattentiveness to recon & seemingly inescapable desire to always have his carriers "doing something."

You functionally ended the war with that battle - and it was your continued masterly concentration of force and careful maintenance of your supplies lines which turned a situation (after Sumatra) which looked grim, into a brilliant victory.



_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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Post #: 14067
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 4:18:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I'm looking forward to reading John's version of the Great Naval Battle of Wake Island. What was his plan? Why were his carriers steaming into Indian Country without detection on mine? How'd KB get so far forward? (I recall my merchant ships east of Johnston Island suddenly reporting interaction with Jills or Judys. I simply couldn't figure it.) Apparently he didn't realize Death Star was in the Marshalls, now behind KB and in position to interdict. He's a dice roller. That one didn't pay off.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 14068
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 4:26:11 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
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Canoe, before you even *think* of signing off: the last time you used the term "inveterate raider" I first read it as "invertebrate raider" (huh??? ).

I hereby call for a session of Kangaroo Court of Inquiry into any turns of phrase, alliterations, or any other wordings of Canoerebel's which caused coffee to fly, keyboards to be thereby or otherwise become fouled, either physically, metaphysically, or metaphorically.

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Post #: 14069
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/26/2018 4:28:50 PM   
GetAssista

 

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Congratulation to you both on concluding this epic journey!
I know it was a lot of fun to play. but it also was a lot of fun to watch. Thank you!

(in reply to Lovejoy)
Post #: 14070
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