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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/18/2012 10:39:01 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

If CVL they have Zeroes and not Claudes, right?



I am pretty sure in RA all Jap flat tops have Zero's.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/18/2012 11:12:30 PM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 12:16:11 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.


Why not? They have transporters and food replicators. Zeros with phasors too?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 12:59:25 AM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I have a two part test to determine how I handle this situation:

1.  If John's carriers are on an offensive mission, prowling about, then I need to be wary.  He'll have his carriers optimally configured with fighters and strike aircraft.  He may also have pulled a "pea under the shell" trick and brought in an additional carrier or two.  So, if he's hunting, I'll have to be wary.

2.  On the other hand, if his mission is defensive, so that his carriers are providing cover for an invasion force, I might have caught him with his pants down.  He last saw Ent and Lex in the Solomons.  He "might" have surmised they are in Oz or bound for the DEI.  On the other hand, his subs around Christmas and vicinity kept getting sightings of my carrier search planes.  Overall, though, I am more inclined to attack if John keeps his ships near Midway, where I can employ both ground and carrier air.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/19/2012 1:00:21 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 2:54:14 AM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		No doubt. Although the unique circumstances of the RL Battle of Midway are rarely replicated, one aspect recurs often - namely that carriers acting as "shepherds" for invasions are often put at a disadvantage.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 4:12:50 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.


Why not? They have transporters and food replicators. Zeros with phasors too?


From John's notes on his mod-carrier air has been fashioned around the A6M series pre-war, thereby insuring more complete deployment of this airframe.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 8:39:25 AM   
Houtje

 

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Status: offline 		Sounds like a dangerous plan, CR. Is it likely that John would just keep a Mini-KB hanging around in a dangerous position, waiting for another invasion force to cover? He might be trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by sucking in a few of your carriers and then hammering them. I mean, it's been a few days since things started to go wrong on Midway for him, right? So he had time to prepare such a move. (Or maybe he even deliberately sacrificed his troops on Midway to draw you out...)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 2:32:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have a two part test to determine how I handle this situation:

1.  If John's carriers are on an offensive mission, prowling about, then I need to be wary.  He'll have his carriers optimally configured with fighters and strike aircraft.  He may also have pulled a "pea under the shell" trick and brought in an additional carrier or two.  So, if he's hunting, I'll have to be wary.

2.  On the other hand, if his mission is defensive, so that his carriers are providing cover for an invasion force, I might have caught him with his pants down.  He last saw Ent and Lex in the Solomons.  He "might" have surmised they are in Oz or bound for the DEI.  On the other hand, his subs around Christmas and vicinity kept getting sightings of my carrier search planes.  Overall, though, I am more inclined to attack if John keeps his ships near Midway, where I can employ both ground and carrier air.


A tough risk assessment.

He might be doing a hybrid, a #3. Covering an invasion force, but with 1-2 extra decks too.

The swing votes for me would turn on two factors:

1) How mcuh help can Midway LBA give you?

2) You know his psychology. He is a bull. You bloodied his nose at Midway already by repulsing and then destroying his "easy A" landing that wasn't so easy. My tendency would be to think he's re-invading and is focused on teaching you a lesson. With that as a premise I doubt he took the time to organize 1-2 extra decks. He has his blood up.

What's the risk? Maybe 70-30 in your favor? My best guess with what you've provided us AAR peanuts.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:05:01 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Houtje

Sounds like a dangerous plan, CR. Is it likely that John would just keep a Mini-KB hanging around in a dangerous position, waiting for another invasion force to cover? He might be trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by sucking in a few of your carriers and then hammering them. I mean, it's been a few days since things started to go wrong on Midway for him, right? So he had time to prepare such a move. (Or maybe he even deliberately sacrificed his troops on Midway to draw you out...)

It is early in the game with lots of Japanese amphib units in motion to specific targets. Scraping up another, larger force than the last one to land at Midway has to take some time. Just sailing 12 knot xAKs from Japan or Truk/Babeldaob area takes over a week. If he needed to buy the troops with PP that would delay even longer. I think his MKB was hoping to pounce on any Allied reinforcement effort while waiting for the amphib force #2.
He is likely getting nervous though, since he hasn't seen the US CVs for a while. Estimating that CR would use them in the IO/Oz area per his previous games and knowing where they be, are two different things.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:13:38 PM   
Canoerebel


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Lots of good thoughts.  Thanks for chiming in.  The Moose is right.  John does tend to get his blood up.  I'd be much more wary of an elaborate trap if this was Nemo or PzH (or a number of other guys out there).  With John, I'm leaning towards believing that he's covering the base for a re-invasion.  He did spot some DDs there yesterday, but his carriers are still in postion about seven hexes west of Midway.  Probably two to three more days before I pounce, unless I see an invasion TF moving in before the.

West Coast:  Saratoga was to leave SD last night, so I held my breath that she'd make it through the strong sub line.  As I began the turn replay, a combat box popped up right there with an IJ sub poised to take a shot at a very big ship....only it was QE coming in rather than Saratoga going out.  The sub missed.  I was doubly relieved.  Saratoga made her egress unnoticed as far as I can tell.

CenPac:  Lex and Ent have refueled and will begin moving NW towards Midway.  Two SBD squadrons from Pearl have staged forward to Johnston.  I moved Lex's Buffaloes to Pearl Harbor, but a few laggards remained aboard ship disrupting my efforts to upgrade.  I may have to go into this fight as is.

SoPac:  Pearl Harbor KB is near Ndeni and moving NW.

DEI:  Lost sight of the DEI KB, but I'm nearly positive its between Cocos and Diego.  A goodly part of a UK brigade will come ashore at Diego tomorrow.  I need a couple of days to complete the landing effort.  IJN combat ships posted at Cocos.  John may be throwing together an invasion force.  I've upgraded commanders for my Cocos units.  The AV there is 230.  The AV at Diego, once the Brits are ashore, will be around 240.

China:  Making good progress on the MLR.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:33:11 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

Lots of good thoughts.  Thanks for chiming in.  The Moose is right.  John does tend to get his blood up.  I'd be much more wary of an elaborate trap if this was Nemo or PzH (or a number of other guys out there).  With John, I'm leaning towards believing that he's covering the base for a re-invasion.  He did spot some DDs there yesterday, but his carriers are still in postion about seven hexes west of Midway.  Probably two to three more days before I pounce, unless I see an invasion TF moving in before the.

Then I suppose you might give him a couple of xAPs a bit east of Midway just before your carriers are there to draw him that way a bit.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 7:22:07 PM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 7:27:53 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!


Yes. I miss Knavey too. In the words of Tom Label (Knavey's erstwhile sidekick) I'd add, "The same thing happened to me, I swear!!!!!!"



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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 11:02:52 PM   
desicat

 

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quote:

I moved Lex's Buffaloes to Pearl Harbor


Can you move these or some other CV aircraft somewhere North to be spotted? This would be out of your norm and possible distract him or allay his fears somewhat.

The delay in upgrade would be of very little issue if you fall into a trap and would be well worth it if you can snare him in one.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 12:10:02 AM   
DivePac88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!

quote:

Knavey


I do think that this very tactic did work in the old WitP game once, when 'Japan' employed it in a Pbem CHS grand campaign... serious.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 2:53:51 PM   
Canoerebel


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Midway:  No action at Midway.  I think I'm glad.  John just wasn't acting like he was oblivious or careless.  He was acting like he knew (or had surmised much of) what was going on.  My carriers moved a day closer to Midway.  Patrols sighted two enemy subs right on the lane of travel.  The Mini KB moved to the SW side of Midway.  Then, on the next day, I moved my carrier NE, towards French Frigate (a "let me see what's going on first before I go further" move).  The enemy carriers then retired, probably to the SW.  The Pearl KB was last seen two days ago moving north from vicinity of Ndeni, so John might be trying to effect a consolidation before he comes back.  In the meantime, Saratoga will rendezvous with Ent and Lex in two days.  Yorktown made her move out of San Diego without any trouble and is trailing Sara by about three days.  So, I'll have four carriers present before a (possibly) combined KB can arrive, but I'll have to be very careful.

NoPac:  Quiet.

SoPac:  Quiet.

SWPac:  The enemy took Rabaul perhaps a week ago and has since taken Lae.

DEI:  Lautem and Koepang have fallen.  Japan has small armies on the prowl in eastern Sumatra and western Java.  So far nothing's coming for Singapore.  Balikpan, Kendari and Makassar are still in Allied hands.  I'm beginning to move my short-legged fighters and torp bombers out of the theater (via Padang, Sabang, etc.) since it will be hard to get them out the other way with Timor in enemy hands.  I've lost track of the DEI KB, but think it's within shouting distance of Diego or Ceylon.  Force Z is just east of Cocos.

China:  The Chinese have pretty much established "the usual" MLR.  At this point, there are no worrisome pressure points.  In particular, the Chinese have stopped the Japanese short of Changsha.  The "woods line" to the east and north of Sian also looks secure, though there are a few problems I need to attend to.

End of 1941:  John did a fine job in rounding up and killing the ships fleeing Manila and vicinty.  Then, with an assist from me, he also squashed a bunch of ships (small stuff) fleeing Java.  His to best scores are BC Repulse and the UK brigade that was about to land at Cocos.  He's been hyper aggressive, which has paid off for him several times.  The Allies best moves thus far have been slowing Japan in the Solomons region and defeating an invasion of Midway.  I hope that the defenses of Cocos, Diego and Port Blair will pay dividends, but that's still to be determined.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 8:15:14 PM   
Canoerebel


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Luzon:  Manila falls on the first try.  Generally, I concentrate all my troops at Clark, but stacking limits forced a dispersal.  I thought Manila might hold awhile against the modest army brought by Japan, but I was wrong.  Hopefully, the Clark defenders will perform better.

Pacific:  Lex, Sara and Ent are together, which is nice.  Yorktown will join them in roughly two days.  A FT TF and a small amphibious TF are bringing reinforcements to Midway, though I'm not positive the door will remain open.

SWPac:  The Japanese have taken Broome.

DEI:  The DEI KB shows up SW (true) of Cocos.  My two combat TFs, well to the SE of Cocos, will skedaddle towards Perth.  Three IJN BBs bombarded Cocos on the second.  This has John's full attention.

China:  John ordered his small army (three divisions) east of Changsha to try another deliberate attack.  Once again, the Japanese got a bloody repulse.  I get the impression that John doesn't have a strong feel for the ground war in China.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 6:41:35 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



China:  John ordered his small army (three divisions) east of Changsha to try another deliberate attack.  Once again, the Japanese got a bloody repulse.  I get the impression that John doesn't have a strong feel for the ground war in China.


Dan, with Stacking Limits the Chinese Army can become decent.
Rememeber to use wood-rough terrain everywhere you can...even a tiny corp can be a problem with some forts built up!
I've found that the "only rough" terrain is not the place you want to defend...especially against tanks. Changsha can be easily defended, imho, but you need to cover the southern approaches. The eastern ones are easily defendable with stacking limits.
Remember also to start placing corps (and to let them dig) on the mountains north of Sian. Use some of your Chungking reserves.

China, with stacking limits, is a whole different animal than in stock!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 3:29:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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The Mystery of the Day:  John has accumulated 20 strategic points.  I have no idea how.  He hasn't done any strat bombing of the USA or Oz.  I guess I could pull out the manual and read the rule, but where's the fun in that?

Carriers:  The DEI KB is well to the south (true) of Cocos Island.  The other two KBs are missing, though my hunch is that John is combining them in CenPac in preparation for a move on Midway or some other important lodgment.  Tomorrow, York will join her three sisters will to the north of Pearl Harbor.

NoPac:  A couple of small Allied combat TFs are positioning themselves to raid some of the Aluetians or even the Kuriles.  Oilers, in support, are enroute.  The American carriers may or may not participate in such an excercise, but would if a raid provoked John into chasing my ships with something tasty. 

DEI:  Getting my aircraft out of the DEI is an exercise in tedium.  Fragments of each unit are now spread hither and yon, some are out of commission for a few days while other fragments move on to distant bases.  Keeping up with this kind of thing is one of the tedious aspects of the game.  Biplanes sank an IJ xAKL laden with troops at Mersing.  No big deal, but fun. 

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:17:30 PM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		Re Strat points, did he bombard a base with industry, perhaps?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:18:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Nothing in America or Australia.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:20:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nothing in America or Australia.


Nothing in a piece of hex that is coded to belong to the US or Oz? The manual says "Australia" but doesn't define that in terms of boundaries, islands, possessions, etc.

Also, strat damage VPs are cumulative, so if he did damge something and you aren't repairing it he'll keep accumulating.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/21/2012 5:24:28 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:26:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Nothing's been hit anywhere in USA or Oz by aircraft or ship bombardment.  Zero.  Nothing.  (This is meant for emphasis, not to indicated that I'm grouchy.  I'm not.  I'm supple.)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:36:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status: offline 		Maybe Manila LI?

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Post #: 204
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 6:01:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		As far as I know, Strat Points against the Allies only come from damaging industry in continental USA (not Hawaii or Alaska) and Oz (or perhaps it's just that part of Oz south of the Line of Death). I don't think any points are scored in DEI, Philippines, India, China, New Zealand, Russia.

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Post #: 205
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 7:09:44 PM   
desicat

 

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Status: offline 		Someone needs to ask Mandrake, he knows the manual backward and forward.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 8:25:19 PM   
CaptDave

 

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Status: offline 		"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 8:30:29 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii."


Hmm. Is there any industry in Alaska?

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Post #: 208
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 10:42:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.


OK, forget Manila.

But what's "Australia?" There are national ownership codes attached to every land hex, accessed by a hotkey I don't recall. It's how you figure out the Kuriles for example. Tasmania is surely part of Australia, but it's not contiguous land mass. The easiest way to code strat points would be to use the national codes. I agree it's probbaly Hawaii and CR just didn't notice it was damaged. But I'd still be careful about Aussie islands.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 11:10:56 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.


OK, forget Manila.

But what's "Australia?" There are national ownership codes attached to every land hex, accessed by a hotkey I don't recall. It's how you figure out the Kuriles for example. Tasmania is surely part of Australia, but it's not contiguous land mass. The easiest way to code strat points would be to use the national codes. I agree it's probbaly Hawaii and CR just didn't notice it was damaged. But I'd still be careful about Aussie islands.

Could be the dockyard. It's easy to forget that it is considered "industry" rather than just a port facility.


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