Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/18/2012 10:39:01 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

If CVL they have Zeroes and not Claudes, right?



I am pretty sure in RA all Jap flat tops have Zero's.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 181
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/18/2012 11:12:30 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 182
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 12:16:11 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.


Why not? They have transporters and food replicators. Zeros with phasors too?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 183
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 12:59:25 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I have a two part test to determine how I handle this situation:

1.  If John's carriers are on an offensive mission, prowling about, then I need to be wary.  He'll have his carriers optimally configured with fighters and strike aircraft.  He may also have pulled a "pea under the shell" trick and brought in an additional carrier or two.  So, if he's hunting, I'll have to be wary.

2.  On the other hand, if his mission is defensive, so that his carriers are providing cover for an invasion force, I might have caught him with his pants down.  He last saw Ent and Lex in the Solomons.  He "might" have surmised they are in Oz or bound for the DEI.  On the other hand, his subs around Christmas and vicinity kept getting sightings of my carrier search planes.  Overall, though, I am more inclined to attack if John keeps his ships near Midway, where I can employ both ground and carrier air.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/19/2012 1:00:21 AM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 184
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 2:54:14 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		No doubt. Although the unique circumstances of the RL Battle of Midway are rarely replicated, one aspect recurs often - namely that carriers acting as "shepherds" for invasions are often put at a disadvantage.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 185
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 4:12:50 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I can confirm Lecivius on that point - no Claudes on CVLs in this mod.


Why not? They have transporters and food replicators. Zeros with phasors too?


From John's notes on his mod-carrier air has been fashioned around the A6M series pre-war, thereby insuring more complete deployment of this airframe.

_____________________________


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 186
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 8:39:25 AM   
Houtje

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Sounds like a dangerous plan, CR. Is it likely that John would just keep a Mini-KB hanging around in a dangerous position, waiting for another invasion force to cover? He might be trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by sucking in a few of your carriers and then hammering them. I mean, it's been a few days since things started to go wrong on Midway for him, right? So he had time to prepare such a move. (Or maybe he even deliberately sacrificed his troops on Midway to draw you out...)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 187
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 2:32:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have a two part test to determine how I handle this situation:

1.  If John's carriers are on an offensive mission, prowling about, then I need to be wary.  He'll have his carriers optimally configured with fighters and strike aircraft.  He may also have pulled a "pea under the shell" trick and brought in an additional carrier or two.  So, if he's hunting, I'll have to be wary.

2.  On the other hand, if his mission is defensive, so that his carriers are providing cover for an invasion force, I might have caught him with his pants down.  He last saw Ent and Lex in the Solomons.  He "might" have surmised they are in Oz or bound for the DEI.  On the other hand, his subs around Christmas and vicinity kept getting sightings of my carrier search planes.  Overall, though, I am more inclined to attack if John keeps his ships near Midway, where I can employ both ground and carrier air.


A tough risk assessment.

He might be doing a hybrid, a #3. Covering an invasion force, but with 1-2 extra decks too.

The swing votes for me would turn on two factors:

1) How mcuh help can Midway LBA give you?

2) You know his psychology. He is a bull. You bloodied his nose at Midway already by repulsing and then destroying his "easy A" landing that wasn't so easy. My tendency would be to think he's re-invading and is focused on teaching you a lesson. With that as a premise I doubt he took the time to organize 1-2 extra decks. He has his blood up.

What's the risk? Maybe 70-30 in your favor? My best guess with what you've provided us AAR peanuts.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 188
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:05:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Houtje

Sounds like a dangerous plan, CR. Is it likely that John would just keep a Mini-KB hanging around in a dangerous position, waiting for another invasion force to cover? He might be trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by sucking in a few of your carriers and then hammering them. I mean, it's been a few days since things started to go wrong on Midway for him, right? So he had time to prepare such a move. (Or maybe he even deliberately sacrificed his troops on Midway to draw you out...)

It is early in the game with lots of Japanese amphib units in motion to specific targets. Scraping up another, larger force than the last one to land at Midway has to take some time. Just sailing 12 knot xAKs from Japan or Truk/Babeldaob area takes over a week. If he needed to buy the troops with PP that would delay even longer. I think his MKB was hoping to pounce on any Allied reinforcement effort while waiting for the amphib force #2.
He is likely getting nervous though, since he hasn't seen the US CVs for a while. Estimating that CR would use them in the IO/Oz area per his previous games and knowing where they be, are two different things.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Houtje)
Post #: 189
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:13:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/28/42
 
Lots of good thoughts.  Thanks for chiming in.  The Moose is right.  John does tend to get his blood up.  I'd be much more wary of an elaborate trap if this was Nemo or PzH (or a number of other guys out there).  With John, I'm leaning towards believing that he's covering the base for a re-invasion.  He did spot some DDs there yesterday, but his carriers are still in postion about seven hexes west of Midway.  Probably two to three more days before I pounce, unless I see an invasion TF moving in before the.

West Coast:  Saratoga was to leave SD last night, so I held my breath that she'd make it through the strong sub line.  As I began the turn replay, a combat box popped up right there with an IJ sub poised to take a shot at a very big ship....only it was QE coming in rather than Saratoga going out.  The sub missed.  I was doubly relieved.  Saratoga made her egress unnoticed as far as I can tell.

CenPac:  Lex and Ent have refueled and will begin moving NW towards Midway.  Two SBD squadrons from Pearl have staged forward to Johnston.  I moved Lex's Buffaloes to Pearl Harbor, but a few laggards remained aboard ship disrupting my efforts to upgrade.  I may have to go into this fight as is.

SoPac:  Pearl Harbor KB is near Ndeni and moving NW.

DEI:  Lost sight of the DEI KB, but I'm nearly positive its between Cocos and Diego.  A goodly part of a UK brigade will come ashore at Diego tomorrow.  I need a couple of days to complete the landing effort.  IJN combat ships posted at Cocos.  John may be throwing together an invasion force.  I've upgraded commanders for my Cocos units.  The AV there is 230.  The AV at Diego, once the Brits are ashore, will be around 240.

China:  Making good progress on the MLR.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 190
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 5:33:11 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

Lots of good thoughts.  Thanks for chiming in.  The Moose is right.  John does tend to get his blood up.  I'd be much more wary of an elaborate trap if this was Nemo or PzH (or a number of other guys out there).  With John, I'm leaning towards believing that he's covering the base for a re-invasion.  He did spot some DDs there yesterday, but his carriers are still in postion about seven hexes west of Midway.  Probably two to three more days before I pounce, unless I see an invasion TF moving in before the.

Then I suppose you might give him a couple of xAPs a bit east of Midway just before your carriers are there to draw him that way a bit.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 191
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 7:22:07 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 192
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 7:27:53 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!


Yes. I miss Knavey too. In the words of Tom Label (Knavey's erstwhile sidekick) I'd add, "The same thing happened to me, I swear!!!!!!"



_____________________________


(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 193
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/19/2012 11:02:52 PM   
desicat

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I moved Lex's Buffaloes to Pearl Harbor


Can you move these or some other CV aircraft somewhere North to be spotted? This would be out of your norm and possible distract him or allay his fears somewhat.

The delay in upgrade would be of very little issue if you fall into a trap and would be well worth it if you can snare him in one.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 194
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 12:10:02 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Bah, trying to draw enemy carriers into an ambush battle around Midway is a crazy idea. It would never work in real life. I have these wargame results from the Japanese staff college in 1942 to prove it. They really should fix this game!

quote:

Knavey


I do think that this very tactic did work in the old WitP game once, when 'Japan' employed it in a Pbem CHS grand campaign... serious.

_____________________________


When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 195
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 2:53:51 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/29/41 to 12/31/41
 
Midway:  No action at Midway.  I think I'm glad.  John just wasn't acting like he was oblivious or careless.  He was acting like he knew (or had surmised much of) what was going on.  My carriers moved a day closer to Midway.  Patrols sighted two enemy subs right on the lane of travel.  The Mini KB moved to the SW side of Midway.  Then, on the next day, I moved my carrier NE, towards French Frigate (a "let me see what's going on first before I go further" move).  The enemy carriers then retired, probably to the SW.  The Pearl KB was last seen two days ago moving north from vicinity of Ndeni, so John might be trying to effect a consolidation before he comes back.  In the meantime, Saratoga will rendezvous with Ent and Lex in two days.  Yorktown made her move out of San Diego without any trouble and is trailing Sara by about three days.  So, I'll have four carriers present before a (possibly) combined KB can arrive, but I'll have to be very careful.

NoPac:  Quiet.

SoPac:  Quiet.

SWPac:  The enemy took Rabaul perhaps a week ago and has since taken Lae.

DEI:  Lautem and Koepang have fallen.  Japan has small armies on the prowl in eastern Sumatra and western Java.  So far nothing's coming for Singapore.  Balikpan, Kendari and Makassar are still in Allied hands.  I'm beginning to move my short-legged fighters and torp bombers out of the theater (via Padang, Sabang, etc.) since it will be hard to get them out the other way with Timor in enemy hands.  I've lost track of the DEI KB, but think it's within shouting distance of Diego or Ceylon.  Force Z is just east of Cocos.

China:  The Chinese have pretty much established "the usual" MLR.  At this point, there are no worrisome pressure points.  In particular, the Chinese have stopped the Japanese short of Changsha.  The "woods line" to the east and north of Sian also looks secure, though there are a few problems I need to attend to.

End of 1941:  John did a fine job in rounding up and killing the ships fleeing Manila and vicinty.  Then, with an assist from me, he also squashed a bunch of ships (small stuff) fleeing Java.  His to best scores are BC Repulse and the UK brigade that was about to land at Cocos.  He's been hyper aggressive, which has paid off for him several times.  The Allies best moves thus far have been slowing Japan in the Solomons region and defeating an invasion of Midway.  I hope that the defenses of Cocos, Diego and Port Blair will pay dividends, but that's still to be determined.

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 196
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/20/2012 8:15:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		1/1/42 and 1/2/42
 
Luzon:  Manila falls on the first try.  Generally, I concentrate all my troops at Clark, but stacking limits forced a dispersal.  I thought Manila might hold awhile against the modest army brought by Japan, but I was wrong.  Hopefully, the Clark defenders will perform better.

Pacific:  Lex, Sara and Ent are together, which is nice.  Yorktown will join them in roughly two days.  A FT TF and a small amphibious TF are bringing reinforcements to Midway, though I'm not positive the door will remain open.

SWPac:  The Japanese have taken Broome.

DEI:  The DEI KB shows up SW (true) of Cocos.  My two combat TFs, well to the SE of Cocos, will skedaddle towards Perth.  Three IJN BBs bombarded Cocos on the second.  This has John's full attention.

China:  John ordered his small army (three divisions) east of Changsha to try another deliberate attack.  Once again, the Japanese got a bloody repulse.  I get the impression that John doesn't have a strong feel for the ground war in China.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 197
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 6:41:35 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



China:  John ordered his small army (three divisions) east of Changsha to try another deliberate attack.  Once again, the Japanese got a bloody repulse.  I get the impression that John doesn't have a strong feel for the ground war in China.


Dan, with Stacking Limits the Chinese Army can become decent.
Rememeber to use wood-rough terrain everywhere you can...even a tiny corp can be a problem with some forts built up!
I've found that the "only rough" terrain is not the place you want to defend...especially against tanks. Changsha can be easily defended, imho, but you need to cover the southern approaches. The eastern ones are easily defendable with stacking limits.
Remember also to start placing corps (and to let them dig) on the mountains north of Sian. Use some of your Chungking reserves.

China, with stacking limits, is a whole different animal than in stock!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 198
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 3:29:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		1/3/42
 
The Mystery of the Day:  John has accumulated 20 strategic points.  I have no idea how.  He hasn't done any strat bombing of the USA or Oz.  I guess I could pull out the manual and read the rule, but where's the fun in that?

Carriers:  The DEI KB is well to the south (true) of Cocos Island.  The other two KBs are missing, though my hunch is that John is combining them in CenPac in preparation for a move on Midway or some other important lodgment.  Tomorrow, York will join her three sisters will to the north of Pearl Harbor.

NoPac:  A couple of small Allied combat TFs are positioning themselves to raid some of the Aluetians or even the Kuriles.  Oilers, in support, are enroute.  The American carriers may or may not participate in such an excercise, but would if a raid provoked John into chasing my ships with something tasty. 

DEI:  Getting my aircraft out of the DEI is an exercise in tedium.  Fragments of each unit are now spread hither and yon, some are out of commission for a few days while other fragments move on to distant bases.  Keeping up with this kind of thing is one of the tedious aspects of the game.  Biplanes sank an IJ xAKL laden with troops at Mersing.  No big deal, but fun. 

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 199
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:17:30 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Re Strat points, did he bombard a base with industry, perhaps?

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 200
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:18:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Nothing in America or Australia.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 201
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:20:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nothing in America or Australia.


Nothing in a piece of hex that is coded to belong to the US or Oz? The manual says "Australia" but doesn't define that in terms of boundaries, islands, possessions, etc.

Also, strat damage VPs are cumulative, so if he did damge something and you aren't repairing it he'll keep accumulating.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/21/2012 5:24:28 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 202
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:26:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Nothing's been hit anywhere in USA or Oz by aircraft or ship bombardment.  Zero.  Nothing.  (This is meant for emphasis, not to indicated that I'm grouchy.  I'm not.  I'm supple.)

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 203
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 5:36:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		Maybe Manila LI?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 204
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 6:01:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		As far as I know, Strat Points against the Allies only come from damaging industry in continental USA (not Hawaii or Alaska) and Oz (or perhaps it's just that part of Oz south of the Line of Death). I don't think any points are scored in DEI, Philippines, India, China, New Zealand, Russia.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 205
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 7:09:44 PM   
desicat

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		Someone needs to ask Mandrake, he knows the manual backward and forward.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 206
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 8:25:19 PM   
CaptDave

 

Posts: 659
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: Federal Way, WA
Status: offline 		"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.

(in reply to desicat)
Post #: 207
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 8:30:29 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii."


Hmm. Is there any industry in Alaska?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to CaptDave)
Post #: 208
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 10:42:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.


OK, forget Manila.

But what's "Australia?" There are national ownership codes attached to every land hex, accessed by a hotkey I don't recall. It's how you figure out the Kuriles for example. Tasmania is surely part of Australia, but it's not contiguous land mass. The easiest way to code strat points would be to use the national codes. I agree it's probbaly Hawaii and CR just didn't notice it was damaged. But I'd still be careful about Aussie islands.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to CaptDave)
Post #: 209
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2012 11:10:56 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

"Points will only be scored by the Allies for bombing industry in mainland Japan, and by the Japanese for bombing industry in North America, Australia, and/or/Hawaii." (p. 264)

Looks like Hawaii is the most likely source of his points.


OK, forget Manila.

But what's "Australia?" There are national ownership codes attached to every land hex, accessed by a hotkey I don't recall. It's how you figure out the Kuriles for example. Tasmania is surely part of Australia, but it's not contiguous land mass. The easiest way to code strat points would be to use the national codes. I agree it's probbaly Hawaii and CR just didn't notice it was damaged. But I'd still be careful about Aussie islands.

Could be the dockyard. It's easy to forget that it is considered "industry" rather than just a port facility.


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 210
Page:   <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.703